Patriotism Teaching in School: Sense of identity or Propaganda?

[sabrown100]

Should patriotism be taught in schools. Is this a way to give pupils a sense of identity - or a propaganda campeign?

Click here to read the story... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7220736.stm)

[Troll]

Patriotism should not be taught as it is something aperson should develop, or not, on their own. However, historical lessons and facts about patriots, those who fought for, defended , risked or gave their lives to defend the country, are historical facts and they can and should be mentioned in historic context

[spiderviveka_SC]

Absolutely its propoganda. I despised all of it during school. From having "In God We Trust" on the walls and american flags in every classroom, to being reprimanded for not standing up for the pledge or allegiance.

Patriotism and religion should have nothing to do with education. In my opinion, the schools should teach young people to think for themselves, but right now they just teach them to all think alike. To be good little patriotic consumers.

[hszmv]

On the topic of patriotism being taught in school, what it sounded like to me was just a mere history lesson. In the US, it is harder not to give a history lesson with out some form of model patriotism leaking in. US history is riddled with passionate people who did significant things.

However, I'm not as familure with UK history, but I don't see many people who are as colorful as George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. Not saying that their are not people like that, just that I haven't seen them. Their is a differance between learning about people who loved their country and learning how to love your country. The former is very easy to teach, while the latter is more formed individually in my mind.

[Haylifer]

If I was forced to Pledge Allegiance to the Flag every day or whatever, I'd probably kill something. When I visited the US a few years ago, it was scary how every single advert and signpost said 'God Bless America' on it. It reminded me a lot of brainwashing and Orwell's 1984 - although minus huge posters of the adored dictator ;P

But then again it can go too far the other way, like here in the UK. In History we learnt about The American West, Vietnam and Northern Ireland. Nothing about Kings and Queens of the great British Empire. In Religious Studies, we learnt about Hinduism and Islam and only brushed on our national religion, Christianity. If I hadn't come from a Christian family, I probably wouldn't have known anything about Jesus. The government is too scared to do anything related to British culture lest it damage our 'multiculturalism'. A student was once told to take down a Union Jack flag he was flying from his flat because it could offend people who weren't of British nationality. None of my friends know more than the first line to our national anthem. I think it's because us Brits tend to be more modest and polite when it comes to patriotism, but we're rapidly turning into a mushy grey no-culture where people think it's OK to act violently, or commit terrorism or anarchy, because they have no real love for the country.

[appelsapgodin]

I agree with most of the people who say patriotism could easily change into propagandic brainwashing..

On the subject of hanging out the flag. Here in the Netherlands it is forbidden to fly a flag from your home if it is not a special day for the nation (Queens-day and the WW2 memorial days etc.) There are also rules about how the flag needs to be attached to your house. Which I think is quite normal actually... if you would hang out the flag everyday.. I think that would degrade the idea of what it is meant for.

[SilentPsycho]

If I was forced to Pledge Allegiance to the Flag every day or whatever, I'd probably kill something. When I visited the US a few years ago, it was scary how every single advert and signpost said 'God Bless America' on it. It reminded me a lot of brainwashing and Orwell's 1984 - although minus huge posters of the adored dictator ;P

But then again it can go too far the other way, like here in the UK. In History we learnt about The American West, Vietnam and Northern Ireland. Nothing about Kings and Queens of the great British Empire. In Religious Studies, we learnt about Hinduism and Islam and only brushed on our national religion, Christianity. If I hadn't come from a Christian family, I probably wouldn't have known anything about Jesus. The government is too scared to do anything related to British culture lest it damage our 'multiculturalism'. A student was once told to take down a Union Jack flag he was flying from his flat because it could offend people who weren't of British nationality. None of my friends know more than the first line to our national anthem. I think it's because us Brits tend to be more modest and polite when it comes to patriotism, but we're rapidly turning into a mushy grey no-culture where people think it's OK to act violently, or commit terrorism or anarchy, because they have no real love for the country.

Really? In my school we learned about British history 1066-onwards, including the Tudors, the Stuarts, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, etc. Would have learned more, but I gave up History after Year 9. Religious Studies was actually 100% Christianity-based in the GCSE class - Drove me absolutely mental as I really wanted to learn about other religions.

Maybe it was just the school you went to.

[Rabid]

In my school, we said the Pledge of Allegiance before announcements every morning and had to do the whole ritual- turn toward the flag, stand up even during the moment of silence, right hand over your heart, and the like. If you didn't follow any of the aforementioned ritual, you were severely reprimanded and all of the teachers thought you were some sort of anarchist. Like spiderviveka said, I believe that patriotism and religion should be kept out of schools. Both are individual decisions and need to be encouraged through a person's parents and through oneself.

I wish America were more like Haylifer's vision of Britain- for an atheist like me, all of the In God We Trust and God Bless America adverts are not only somewhat politically incorrect, but they're just misguided propaganda campaigns to brainwash everyone into one religion despite America's alleged religious tolerance. I never liked the amount of patriotism in my school and kind of wished that they would let us make our own decisions about how invested we would like to be in the country.

[Haylifer]

Really? In my school we learned about British history 1066-onwards, including the Tudors, the Stuarts, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, etc. Would have learned more, but I gave up History after Year 9. Religious Studies was actually 100% Christianity-based in the GCSE class - Drove me absolutely mental as I really wanted to learn about other religions.

Maybe it was just the school you went to.


Maybe. I took GCSE History and there was nothing British history about it. We spent the three years pre-GCSE doing about Native American tribes and the difference between primary and secondary evidence :P For GCSE RE we did a mixture of Hinduism and Islam. Being Wiccan back then I got glared at for my 'weird cult beliefs', but heh. So much for multicultural.

[SilentPsycho]

For GCSE RE we did a mixture of Hinduism and Islam. Being Wiccan back then I got glared at for my 'weird cult beliefs', but heh. So much for multicultural.

Oh the irony, my GCSE RS was Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox Church, Quakers, Salvation Army... Drove me insane just looking at the same thing with, for the most part, only slight differences.

Back on topic, I agree that patriotism needs to be discovered and chosen by the person themselves not in school. I agree with you, I would die in America.

[Lillubibi]

I am french and I moved to England recently. Patriotism is taught everyday, especially during history lessons on both sides of the English Channel.
In France, Napoleon was a great man (yes he did restored slavery ; but that was his times' fashion to have slaves) in England, Napoleon was a ruthless leader who tried to take over the world (talk about brain washing...).
The same happens when you study the first and second world war. Each country insists on its heros and on the great things they did (I didn't study the Galipoli campaign in England and did in France) English history lessons make the french look like cowards who waited the end of both war to pick a hero French history lessons make the british look like people unable to decide in what they should do and the french resistance like what made the war end.
The French revolution is completely forgotten from English history books despite its great importance (the UN's declaration of human rights is based on the french's)
And English changes of regime are absent of french lessons.

Patriotism is taught to children ; and we are not even aware of it. But I still don't believe in the pledge of allegiance ; I never sang a national anthem in neither of my schools and I doubt I would have done it.
I think it is right to teach children a bit of patriotism (love of the country AND knowledge and respect of other countries) but I don't believe in nationalism (love of country and NOTHING else).

You definetly have to be careful with children that age and with the fact that not all children are from the same country/have the same nationality.

[FurryPanda]

Well I live in America, and they dot he pledge of allegiance and amoment of silence every morning before the announcements. Most people just stand up, as is required, put their hand over their heart, also required,a nd stand there until the announcemnets start. then of course you get the underachievers that put the left hand over thier heart, and are half bent over finishing thier homework. You get weird looks if you actualy say the pledge of allegiance out loud along with people.

However I have no objections to it being said, and yes little American kids are brainwashed to patriotism. Mainly because you don't learn about the twentieth century, at all, until they're fifteen, and America was pretty chill to the rest of the world until then (if that view point is brainwashed too *shrug* meh).

But really why is it bad that love of country is beaten into your head? Its msotly gone by the time you're a teenager, so no lasting harm done, and it comes back in time to be useful again. Also America may be really really full of itself, what with flags in every window and every month having a federal holiday for some dead patriot (or Martin Luther King), but then again, what harm does it do? Oh and the god bless america on every coin, you completely forget about it after a year or two :p.

No offense to anyone... and if that confused anyone... yeah sorry.

[Daisie]

Meh.

In public schools here, they do the Pledge of Allegiance, which includes "under God," and a moment of silence every morning. The moment of silence (a new concept to me as I didn't grow up in the deep south) is supposed to be for prayer. Please don't get me started on that, and the rest of the religious stuff. LOL. But seriously, it's illegal for a teacher to force a student to say the pledge or put their hand over their heart. Dunno about the standing and facing the flag part, though.

[captapollo75]

i think that some patriotism should be taught, like love of your country and history of your country. But it should never be forced. If they dont want to stand up or put a hand over their heart, then the teacher shouldn't force them to.

But i don't see a problem with the pledge of allegance, a moment of prayer, or "in god we trust" on money. America as a country was created on christian principles, why does that need to change just because some citizens aren't religious? No one is forcing anyone to use the moment of prayer. It's there for anyone that wants to use it.

But if people want to complain about american flags in schools, "in god we trust", pledge of allegance, why are they living here? A lot of us have a lot of pride in our country, so why does it need to change just to please the few?

[Lillubibi]

But if people want to complain about [...]"in god we trust",[...] why are they living here? A lot of us have a lot of pride in our country, so why does it need to change just to please the few?

Are you saying that anyone who doesn't believe in God shouldn't live in the USA ? Very few countries were build on religion. The USA were build on the idea of democracy. I don't see where god fits in the picture. I do belive in patriotism ; but I also believe in the separation of the church (any) and the state.

[romyhorse]

I don't think patriotism should be taught in school, although there is nothing wrong with being patriotic. I am Scottish, and as a country we are very patriotic. I've always been very proud to be Scottish, something my husband could never understand (he was born in Scotland but brought up in England), and it's something I could never explain. It wasn't until my daughter started learning about Scottish history in school and suddenly became very patriotic that I understood where it came from. There is nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from, but it should be a personal choice, not something you learn in school.

[jhd1189]

Are you saying that anyone who doesn't believe in God shouldn't live in the USA ? Very few countries were build on religion. The USA were build on the idea of democracy. I don't see where god fits in the picture. I do belive in patriotism ; but I also believe in the separation of the church (any) and the state.


You left out the chunk of CatApollo's post about how the US was -built- upon Christian principles... and like it or not, that's mostly true. Yes, we are also supposed to be built on the idea of Democracy, but many of the people who came here in the first place were Christians seeking refuge from religious persecution (by older and more established branches of Christianity).

I don't think that CatApollo was trying to say that people who don't believe in God shouldn't be in the USA; I think he just meant that you shouldn't be offended if your country is trying to preserve some sense of its original identity.

Say the "under God" part of the Pledge of Allegiance if you agree with it, or skip that part if you don't... but either way, don't make a big deal out of it. As long as no one is forcing you to say one or the other, then I really don't see the point in making a fuss about it.

[slice_SC]

There is, I believe, a difference between teaching someone to have to pride in their country and teaching someone that their country is the best on earth. There is nothing wrong with encouraging students to be proud of where they come from. Patriotism isn't an animal instinct. A person doesn't simply grow into a patriotic attitude. Patriotism is adopted through example.

The problem comes in when patriotism starts to interfere with solid facts or begins to breed stereotypes and untruths. Deliberately leaving out not-so-pleasant information about one's country in a lesson plan is unacceptable. That is crossing the line of patriotic and entering the territory of an elitist.

[Endersgirl07]

No, I don't think that today's version of "patriotism" should be taught in schools. Education should present information in a manner as unbiased as possible. That includes the good AND bad facts about everything, including what your own nation was built upon. Unfortunately, that is rarely the case in the U.S. I went through primary and part of secondary school being taught that Columbus was a genius and a hero, never hearing about how he DIDN'T discover North America (the Vikings did- why don't we have a day to celebrate them?) and being fed lies about how everyone else in Europe thought the Earth was flat, when the diameter of the spherical earth had been roughly calculated a millenia and a half before, and was widely accepted by everyone with the exception of our dear explorer. Columbus was simply an inexperienced but lucky sailor, who when he landed in the Bahamas proceeded to exploit, maim and kidnap the natives. Not surprisingly, I learned none of these facts in school because it's "unpatriotic" to talk about our nation's "discoverer" that way.
As for the pledge of allegiance, every single one of us has the right not to say it, and the right not to stand when it's called for. I've usually stood for it because I want to show that I have respect for the U.S. as a nation, but I have not pledged allegiance since junior high because I think giving your sole loyalty to a landmass ruled by certain people is ridiculous.
I think true patriotism comes not in saying your country is the best, but in striving and believing in its ideals. The Constitution promises a lot of rights to the people under it, but many of those seem to have been forgotten. It is now un-American to hate your government. This country was founded by people who hated their government, and they wanted to make sure that the future inhabitants of the U.S. had the opportunity to shape theirs the way they wanted it to be. If more people knew that, if more people remembered that, I'm sure there would have been many more uprisings against the crimes of our "leaders" by now.

Also, as for America being built on Christian principles... in a way, the entirety of western society is because of how far Judeo-Christian law has become part of western moral standards. But the Pilgrims and Puritans didn't create the national law- most of the men involved in writing the Constitution were deist, or at least certainly not traditional Christians in the sense of wanting religion to govern law. George Washington himself said that it would be fatal to let it do so. So to say that the country was founded on Christian beliefs is sort of flawed.

[urisStar]

Wow endersgirl07, now that is what I call a true American/patriotism, one who willingly see the whole of what this country was/is about. I find it ill fitting to just want to know about only what we perceive to be the good parts of America and get defensive when the ugliness are exposed. Truth is truth, the good and the bad and one is dishonest when they hide any of the truth. It is said, what we resist/refuse to accept we persevere/persist by nature of that law that will not be deny. We are stuck in the pass with all that ugliness hanging over freedom and justice for all, being nothing but an empty slogan.