Should kids just under the age rating be allowed to play GTA4?

[4257will]

Hi, Is it okay for someone a couple of years under the age rating to play
GTA 4? Its not the violence, drugs, offending langagne, gangs or alcohol but more sexual and nudity. My parnets is more concern about sexual stuff and I don't want to do stuff that is highly sexual on there I only want to kill people and myself in funny ways. :lol:

I am very mature and will never copy what I saw of this game. I know just about all the swear words so thats no worry (I never say any though).

My concern is that I have younger brothers that will start playing it (I know they will but they only like the shooting part like me). I have played Driv3r which is an old simlar verson of GTA.

If it is extremely sexual and nudity is there any way to avoid it?

Does it show the people 100% naked?

I will not want the game if it is as I find its a stupid idea (I could of swore then but I didn't).

I kinda made my younger brothers want the game as I told them brilliant things about it but I think I can turn them off it (and maybe a few other things).

Please reply

[HystericalParoxysm]

I find it sort of shocking that that your parents are more concerned with sexual content than graphic violence. I'd waaaaay rather my kid see naked tits or whatever than someone getting shot in the face.

I didn't play GTA4 much - I recall some bad language and kind of a skeezy conversation the main character has with his cousin in the beginning, but like all GTA-type games, before too long you're left to your own devices and can just ignore all the missions and drive around shooting people and running them over. Considering the backlash they had about the whole "Hot Coffee" thing I sincerely doubt there's actual true nudity or real sex in the game. Doesn't mean there's not sexual content, but compared to being able to run over old ladies with very little consequences? Some boobs and people talking about fuckin' aren't really that big a deal. :P

[that guy ya see every day]

I have GTA IV and i can tell you that the closest thing to sexual content is (1) The strippers (2) The hookers (3) The girl friends, tho idk about the GF in IV cause once you reach a certan point with them, you can say good bye or go inside with them(kinda like in GTA SA) but there are no sex scenes unless you count the hookers cause its not like older GTA's where the camera looks up and you can only rotate it. in IV the hookers have full anims so best to avoid them(they are kinda hard to find so it kinda doesnt matter) and avoid the strip clubs as anyone counts what goes on in them as sexual content to.

[4257will]

in IV the hookers have full anims so best to avoid them(they are kinda hard to find so it kinda doesnt matter) and avoid the strip clubs as anyone counts what goes on in them as sexual content to.

You won't need to worry about the hookers since I will likely mistakely run them over from driving on the sidewalk. :lol:

The reason my parnets aren't that concerned about the violence is because I live on a farm and I have seen cows being gutted, so there isn't to much more gory than that.

[that guy ya see every day]

lol they are VERY hard to find depending on the settings i think, or R* made it that way. the only thing you need is a good pc that can at least run the game at mid settings cause IV is a big step from the old GTA's. and you would get more about GTA IV if you go to www.GTAForums.com , they have every thing on just about every GTA.

[J.S.]

If I had a kid, I'd say 13 would be a safe age for GTA IV if there is a complete understanding that there are plenty of consequences to what happens in GTA 4 in real life - including criminal charges, morals, STDs, emotional grievance, etcetera.

[ElPresidente]

I find it sort of shocking that that your parents are more concerned with sexual content than graphic violence. I'd waaaaay rather my kid see naked tits or whatever than someone getting shot in the face.

Couldn't agree more.

Personally I think this is a game more suited to children fifteen years or older. It can be quite brutal at times is intended for an adult audience.

That said nudity is minimal in the game. It is only in the DLC that sexual content becomes a little more evident. In the first DLC - Lost and the Damned - there is full frontal male nudity. In the second DLC - The Ballad of Gay Tony - there is a new TV show taking the mickey out of Japanese anime and make some very explicit jokes pertaining to sex that I doubt your folks would be all that impressed with.

That said - and call me a fuddy-duddy for it - but I don't think it is appropriate for anyone under 15 to play. Of course I don't know you personally; it is dependent on the child in question's personality.

[that guy ya see every day]

idk about 15 and up, more like 13 and up sounds better. iv played GTA ever since GTA III came out, and one thing to remember is that the sexual content in GTA goes up a couple percentages(about 10 or 20 percent each game) same with the blood baths but the killing has been toned down a bit(if none of you have noticed that in GTA III you could blow peoples arms and legs off, but in vice city and San Andreas you could only do that to heads of peds and in IV you cant do ether).

[singing_Noel]

When it comes down to it, it has nothing to do with age, so this theory doesn't apply to everyone. I know a twenty year old guy who is as sheltered as a three year old, who's obviously old enough to play GTA, but still won't. Which hey, it's his choice, I can't tell him what to do.

I had horrible experiences as a child who had too lenient of parents, so my opinion could be a little bias. I just kinda figured it's common sense. There's a reason why ESRB rates these games, there's a reason why some of these games aren't appropriate for children, so why deny it?

The strange thing is people don't usually consider, is that MOST parents still don't know that games are rated, let alone know what it is exactly that they're actually buying their kids when it comes to videogames. I know this because I actually used to work at a GameStop, and had parents that would walk in with their three year olds, pick up a copy of GTA, and bring it up to the register unknowingly. Me being the big mouth I am, I actually asked one of these "parents" if they knew that this game was inappropriate for children, and she looked at me like I was some kinda idiot. Then she tells me, "well it's a videogame, aren't all videogames for children?" NO!!! I just about died. This isn't Pong lady! Not every game is about an Italian Plumber in red overalls! I eventually showed her the rating, and what the game involved, and to my surprise she actually thanked me for telling her, and since she understood that I was just trying to be helpful, I decided to help her find something a little more appropriate.

I'm still amazed to find that some parents still don't know the differences between these games, and what's appropriate and what's not. Some parents are aware, but so long as they realize that they are doing this of their own will, I'm fine with it. I can't tell you how to raise your child.

I eventually quit working at GameStop though, when I was blamed by a parent by allowing her to buy her ten year old a copy of GTA San Andreas. My manager backed me up, but at that point...I just got sick of it.

@_@

Conclusion?

Be a parent! You are responsible for your children, know what it is your exposing them to, 'cause knowledge is power.

Simple as that.

[blakegriplingph]

When it comes down to it, it has nothing to do with age, so this theory doesn't apply to everyone. I know a twenty year old guy who is as sheltered as a three year old, who's obviously old enough to play GTA, but still won't. Which hey, it's his choice, I can't tell him what to do.

I had horrible experiences as a child who had too lenient of parents, so my opinion could be a little bias. I just kinda figured it's common sense. There's a reason why ESRB rates these games, there's a reason why some of these games aren't appropriate for children, so why deny it?

The strange thing is people don't usually consider, is that MOST parents still don't know that games are rated, let alone know what it is exactly that they're actually buying their kids when it comes to videogames. I know this because I actually used to work at a GameStop, and had parents that would walk in with their three year olds, pick up a copy of GTA, and bring it up to the register unknowingly. Me being the big mouth I am, I actually asked one of these "parents" if they knew that this game was inappropriate for children, and she looked at me like I was some kinda idiot. Then she tells me, "well it's a videogame, aren't all videogames for children?" NO!!! I just about died. This isn't Pong lady! Not every game is about an Italian Plumber in red overalls! I eventually showed her the rating, and what the game involved, and to my surprise she actually thanked me for telling her, and since she understood that I was just trying to be helpful, I decided to help her find something a little more appropriate.

I'm still amazed to find that some parents still don't know the differences between these games, and what's appropriate and what's not. Some parents are aware, but so long as they realize that they are doing this of their own will, I'm fine with it. I can't tell you how to raise your child.

I eventually quit working at GameStop though, when I was blamed by a parent by allowing her to buy her ten year old a copy of GTA San Andreas. My manager backed me up, but at that point...I just got sick of it.

@_@

Conclusion?

Be a parent! You are responsible for your children, know what it is your exposing them to, 'cause knowledge is power.

Simple as that.

Ditto on that. Some people are just too ignorant when it comes to this. I do let my nine-year old cousin play San Andreas, provided that I tell her not to do it IRL and keep her spree of carjacking at a safe place. Some people think I'm crazy, and I do admit that I am, but I guess parents should be more responsible and informed on what kids should do, rather than succumb to mob psychology and side with the irate folks at the Village of Foul Devotees or Jack Thompson and protest in front of R* offices.

If your son or daughter wants to play something in the lines of GTA, you can, just as long as you're informing him/her about the risks involved and what he might expect along the way. If you don't want him/her to hear any profanities, turn the volume down. I also thought of having a friend of mine to write an SCM script blocking access to strip clubs and stuff, and I even came up with ideas for a map mod designed for kids patterned after Strawberry Shortcake, but I dunno.

[that guy ya see every day]

hmmm, if i remember correctly, there was a mod that removes alot of the rated M stuff in GTA SA on some web site, idk what it has in it but removes a lot of stuff from GTA SA like hookers and car jacking so it makes the game playable for kids under 10 but its only on pc as ps2/3 and xbox 360 are not modable.

[blakegriplingph]

I guess I should start on working with that GTA Strawberryland map mod, in all seriousness.

[ElPresidente]

I have to say I think people diluting down the impact of media on children to just a case of "You know not to do that right?" is a bit simplistic.

There are a lot of evils in this world that children should not be exposed to; not because they don't understand the context but rather because it exposes them to aspects of modern day life they should not have to deal with at that age. They don't have to worry about these things at this age so let them keep their innocence.

I know that sounds really airy-fairy but its how I feel. Don't be in a rush to grow-up. One's childhood is a special time that should be kept precious before the ugliness of adult life intervenes.

[HystericalParoxysm]

What ElPrez said. Even if you don't believe that video games cause children to be violent (I don't believe it's a direct cause and effect relationship), children grow up so fast as it is. The rush to desensitize kids to violence and yet keep them from seeing a nipple just blows my mind. Just one of those ERROR: DOES NOT COMPUTE things that I don't think I'll ever understand. I think it might make more sense to me if it were -both- things that parents were trying to shield their children from - protecting them from concepts that may be too adult for their young minds to understand yet. That I get. But... violence is okay and sex isn't? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me, at all.

[ElPresidente]

Agreed. Sex is a beautiful thing that sustains life... violence, well I think y'all see the point.

Heh... I still remember sneaking a peak at a porno magazine when I was about 6 or 7. That young lass covered in sand and naught else... one of my most beautiful memories. ;)

BTW I'm not suggesting parents show pornos to their kids. :P

[blakegriplingph]

I have to say I think people diluting down the impact of media on children to just a case of "You know not to do that right?" is a bit simplistic.

There are a lot of evils in this world that children should not be exposed to; not because they don't understand the context but rather because it exposes them to aspects of modern day life they should not have to deal with at that age. They don't have to worry about these things at this age so let them keep their innocence.

I know that sounds really airy-fairy but its how I feel. Don't be in a rush to grow-up. One's childhood is a special time that should be kept precious before the ugliness of adult life intervenes.

This explains why I hate Bratz. I blame the people behind it for turning innocent little girls into hood rats.

[midnightmonkey28]

I have been playing Grand Theft Auto since I was around 5 years old and I can handle it and not do anything like what happens in the game in real life but it really depends on your personality. :)

I love Grand Theft Auto it's one of my favorite games, I have every GTA game ever made and I am loving the :new: Grand Theft Auto IV. Watch out for the cops! :mod:

[ElPresidente]

I repeat, it is more than just 'can you handle it'.

[kennyinbmore]

My 8 year old doesn't like GTA 4, but he played the hell out of San Andreas when he was 6 or 7. I haven't seen any ill effects

[4257will]

Its not more me but my brothers playing GTA 4 (because they are younger) one is 13 and the other just turned 12. The one whos 13 I won't have to worry about because he one of those players who runs around shoot everyone and everything (I know this because I have watched him played Driv3r) and doesn't play the story or those little features that doesn't let them shoot everything. But my 12 year-old brother will do everything he can on it and explore everywhere.
My brothers are responsible and WILL NOT copy what they have played.

[4257will]

Forgot to mention the version of GTA 4 mine thinking of is Xbox 360

[Slipslop]

I'm pretty sure only children with a bad social background tend to be influenced by such games in a negative way. It's a thing of education and how the parents treat their children and how much they talk to them. If a child gets beaten and abused, i think this particular child gets influenced more by this game violence.

In Germany there were alot of those violence acts where they went to the school and played real-life counterstrike, and each and everyone of those teenagers had a bad social background and had to attent a psychiatrist. This incident, especially "Erfurt" was followed by a discussion of politic who thought it's only the "killergames" who made those teenagers that way.

But maybe children in the age of 13-15 don't have their mind fully developed, so they could get a wrong idea and especially in this age memories like this burn into the mind very deep. Still i think it's no problem, if the parents don't use the TV or video games to raise their children and let these machines do the work for them (something which is not very uncommon nowadays i believe)

I for myself started gaming at the age of 10 (Snes) and it didn't affect me in a bad way at all. That's my opinion on this matter.

[ElPresidente]

So allowing children to keep their innocence is not even a consideration for anyone in this thread other than HP?

I can't begin to tell you how much that depresses me. Is childhood seriously that devalued in our society?

[kennyinbmore]

So allowing children to keep their innocence is not even a consideration for anyone in this thread other than HP?

I can't begin to tell you how much that depresses me. Is childhood seriously that devalued in our society?

How does a child lose his innocense from a game?

[ElPresidente]

From being exposed to concepts they need not be exposed to. Crime and violence are not children concerns, children need to be aware of the evils of the world only in so far as to keep away from them but they don't need to understand the intricacies of violent crime. They'll have to deal with all that adult stuff soon enough... why rush them into adulthood. I miss my childhood... it was such a worry free life... why rob that from kids when they'll never get the chance to experience it again. Ever.

It is the whole rushing our kids to adulthood that I disagree with. Society has forgotten the value of a child.

[midnightmonkey28]

Bye I'm off to go play GTA4

[kustirider2]

Pff. I've been playing GTA since I was about 8 years old (Even the really old 2D bird's eye view ones :lol: ) and I've turned out fine. I've never had a motive to murder anyone and I think it's sick to murder another human being.

[4257will]

I managed to get my parnets to let me buy it!! :deal:

Now I have bought it from the internet and will likely have to wait a week before it arrives.

[kennyinbmore]

From being exposed to concepts they need not be exposed to. Crime and violence are not children concerns, children need to be aware of the evils of the world only in so far as to keep away from them but they don't need to understand the intricacies of violent crime. They'll have to deal with all that adult stuff soon enough... why rush them into adulthood. I miss my childhood... it was such a worry free life... why rob that from kids when they'll never get the chance to experience it again. Ever.

It is the whole rushing our kids to adulthood that I disagree with. Society has forgotten the value of a child.

I think if you can explain to your children that it's only a game, your concern is a bit overblown. My 8 year old isn't worried about crime because he played San Andreas. Right now he's more concerned about that space ship on Fallout 3. In short he played San Andreas and has now moved onto another game, no innocence lost whatsoever

[sparrow_from_planet_astos]

who cares? those kids will learn about the real world sooner or later......better sooner. maybe if parents were doing their responsibility (like watching kids instead of talking on cell phones). personally, i think it is more malicious when parents lie to kids about the world. this world is a fucked up piece of crap. kids should know the truth. this world isn't a 'magical place with sunshine and rainbows'. maybe kids will actually think for once instead of doing dumb things.

[Oaktree]

This is from a while back, but this caught my interest:

From being exposed to concepts they need not be exposed to. Crime and violence are not children concerns, children need to be aware of the evils of the world only in so far as to keep away from them but they don't need to understand the intricacies of violent crime. They'll have to deal with all that adult stuff soon enough... why rush them into adulthood. I miss my childhood... it was such a worry free life... why rob that from kids when they'll never get the chance to experience it again. Ever.

It is the whole rushing our kids to adulthood that I disagree with. Society has forgotten the value of a child.

I was pretty well-informed as a kid, but I don't think it was a bad thing. I never behaved much like your average child. I wanted to learn far more than I wanted to play, and the carefree qualities of childhood had nothing to do with ignorance of the ways of life. To me, a carefree childhood is one with loving parents and security, not sheltering from knowledge. I have always been rather obsessive about learning, so I liked that my parents were honest with me. My parents also felt it necessary to be honest with me because they had no way of knowing what I would be exposed to once I started school, so they explained things to me in a more rational manner than I was likely to get from my classmates.

My parents weren't all that concerned about nudity, though they didn't show me explicit sex scenes. As far as violence goes, I used to watch those old Looney Tunes cartoons, among other things, that parent advocacy groups condemn for being too violent, but I've turned out just fine. I watched The Matrix when I was 10. It is hard to totally avoid violence because it is so prevalent in the media. I think it is more important to explain why it is wrong and why a lot of the depictions of violence are so inaccurate than it is to totally shelter a child.

As far as GTA is concerned, I haven't played it, so I don't know exactly what it is like, but I think that a reasonably mature child (not in age, but in personality) would be able to handle it. If you have a child that shows signs of being violent and having a weak grasp on reality, it may not be a good idea, but if you have a child who has seen some violence before and has been unaffected by it, I don't see a problem.

[ElPresidente]

To me, a carefree childhood is one with loving parents and security, not sheltering from knowledge.

Yes but I fail to see any situation where a child is going to benefit from getting the inside details of planning murders or selling drugs. We aren't talking about The Matrix here... which is ostensibly a kids film anyway. GTA is much more than that.

I'm not running the argument that if affects kids because most stable kids could handle and contextualise the content.

As I said my issue isn't that children can't handle the content just that they shouldn't have to. I'm not talking about sheltering them from knowledge at all - sounds like your parents had the right idea in terms of how they educated you. And I'm 100% in favour of that. I'm just not in favour of children being exposed to the gritty details of concepts like murder and crime. They don't need to know that information and they'll deal with it soon enough. I'm not preaching ignorance of these elements of life but I fail to see in what way a child benefits from playing a game where your goals include murder, sex, rape, selling drugs, etc.

Such a kid would turn out fine... I have no problem with that. But have they gained anything? No, they've lost the opportunity to experience the innocence of a child. You can't get that back EVER. So why take it away? They'll be an adult soon enough... let them enjoy kid things while they still can. They can't appreciate how good they have it at that age and I think it is incumbant on parents to ensure that they do get to appreciate that time later in life when they won't have the opportunity to go back and experience it again.

Damn that is a rambling unstructured post. :P

For the record I greatly enjoy games like Manhunt, films like House of a Thousand Corpses, etc... I'm not anti-violence, anti-horror or any of those things. Folks don't respond to any of this with "But I turned out fine" that's not what I'm arguing. :P

[Oaktree]

I suppose we simply have different 'goals' for what makes a happy childhood. I don't think that knowing that people do some horrible things and what some of those horrible things are screwed up my childhood. I don't feel like I lost anything by knowing what rape, murder, and drug-addiction are from a young age. I simply didn't dwell on those things, but the knowledge was there so that I would know what it was if the topic came up.

I can understand not wanting young children to play videogames that include those topics, because it's not really something that a child should dwell on, but some kids may enjoy playing a game like that. Sometimes little kids (especially boys, from my experience) think that violence and gore are cool. I think that most of those kids know the difference between fantasy and reality and simply enjoy those things for whatever reason. For that matter, what benefit do adults get from a game like GTA?

I think part of the difference in our views is that my parents basically treated me like an adult when I was a kid. I was expected to be responsible for my actions and my parents didn't talk to me like I wouldn't understand something. I was given a little bit of leeway because I was still a kid, but they ultimately treated me as a reasoning being. I think this method worked well for me, so I tend to think that it is a good way to raise kids. Clearly, you think that kids should be kids, that there is an intrinsic difference between childhood and adulthood. Not to say that you think children aren't responsible, reasoning beings, because I don't really know your stance on that, but there is a difference in the way we view childhood.

[ElPresidente]

I don't think that knowing that people do some horrible things and what some of those horrible things are screwed up my childhood. I don't feel like I lost anything by knowing what rape, murder, and drug-addiction are from a young age. I simply didn't dwell on those things, but the knowledge was there so that I would know what it was if the topic came up.

People keep missing my point. I think 99.9999% of kids can handle and appropriately contextualise the content of a game like GTA IV (a game I adore incidentally). Most kids know the difference between fantasy and reality. I agree with all of this. I just don't think kids should dwell on the evils of the world when they don't have to. Adults do, we have no choice... why do we want to take that away from our children?

Your parents raised you in the same way I was raised and in turn will raise my own children.

You speak of not dwelling on these things and I agree. Playing a game which is aimed at adults and deals almost exclusively with these issues in a graphic and often confronting way IS dwelling on those issues.

I have no problems with a kid playing something like Gears of War, I probably wouldn't recommend it to a kid but it is sci-fi fantasy despite the level of gore. It isn't dwelling on the evils of adult life. GTA does. I also wouldn't want a kid playing Manhunt (another Rockstar Game) which is all about killing people in the most visual way possible using household objects all to fulfil the sick fantasies of an ever present snuff film director who has trapped you in this situation.

I'm not talking about kids knowing the difference between fantasy and reality. I'm not saying experiencing these games will mess a kid up. My argument has absolutely nothing to do with any potential psychological implications of this.

All I'm saying is this: Children don't have to deal with the intricacies of the scary people of the world - the criminals, the rapists, the murderers, etc - that is what their parents are for.

Kids can know this stuff but sitting down and playing a twenty hour long title where the subject matter IS crime and dealing with cracked out junkies, etc happens every few seconds - that IS dwelling on the issue.

To answer your question of what benefit adults get... simple... we deal with these issues on a day to day basis. I know people who have been raped, I live in an area which has seen many gangland deaths, I've had an axe held to my head during an armed robbery... to be able to trivialise something I am confronted with almost every day is a way of blowing off steam and being able to take control of something we don't control in real life.

How many kids know people who have been raped and have to deal with the consequences of what it means for their friends, how many kids have been held up, how many kids walk down the street at night and see people fighting outside a night club? A kid can no about these things, I have no problems with that but they need not dwell on them. Playing these games is doing just that.

Adults have evils in their life, they have no choice about that. Should a kid have evils in their life when they still have the option to not? Hell no, and no child is going to realise that until they are an adult and then it is too late.

People underestimate the power of experience. I thought I was mature when I was 16... when I hit my 20s I realised that wasn't the case and I thought I was mature then. I'm 32 now and I look back at my twenties and realise I was not done maturing and I'm still not done now. All kids think they know what they want and what is good for them. If I'd gotten what I'd want I'd have lived on a diet of lemon sherbet and lasagne. I'd probably have died of cardiovascular disease by now or at least be experiencing late onset diabetes. :P

Kids are always in a rush to grow up - that is the nature of the beast - but adult life with its various perks does have negatives that life as a child doesn't. I'm a firm believe that we should experience the full gamut of what life has to offer. Filling children's heads with images of the worst of life evils (please not this is different than being aware of these evils - I'm talking about dwelling on these issues by playing games that are about nothing but) at the one stage of their life when they won't be bombarded by it on a day to day basis is, in my mind, irresponsible.

Your parents obviously didn't allow that nor did mine. Why should we go "Oh that's okay" when a parent says to their 10 year old - here play this game that is exclusively about mankinds evils. Fill your head with all the bad stuff you can.

It disrespects the power of children. They have true imagination yet our education system, our entertainment, everything is designed to destroy that. Why help destory such an incredibly precious resource?

It may not be directly related, but this talk from Sir Ken Robinson on education at TED Talks ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY ) sums up why kids are important and what values they have that as adults we don't. This is why I'm firmly against racing kids to adulthood as quickly as possible.

[kennyinbmore]

I'm not preaching ignorance of these elements of life but I fail to see in what way a child benefits from playing a game where your goals include murder, sex, rape, selling drugs, etc.

Such a kid would turn out fine... I have no problem with that. But have they gained anything?

Isn't the purpose of playing games having fun, not gaining something?

[ElPresidente]

The implication is not that they should gain something... the implication is that they lose something they can't get back.

Continuing this argument just depresses me. That society sees so little value in children and people seem okay with it... well I have no words for that. I really don't.

I have nothing further to say on the subject other than imploring people watch that TED Talks video I linked to in my previous post. Hopefully someone can come out of that with some understanding why childhood is so incredibly precious.

[itsnotozzyitsozzy]

Never played it but to answer your question I must refer back to what my grandma used to tell me when I would buy a mature game "It's not like their not going to see it every day on the tv or in the real world." So no, I think anyone should play anything that they want as long as they can actually get their hands on it.