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doorknob
15th Nov 2010, 12:23 AM
ok it's become apparent that I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm an amature mesher and so far I was very luck that all my meshes were good but this latest mesh is a monster! I think it has something to do with bone assignments but I'm not sure. I added two alpha meshes to it and maybe that's where I went wrong. any way the alphas did not show and the body became mangled. I know why the alphas didn't show I think but I have no idea why the body became mangled. it shouldn't have done that.

if you think you know what went wrong please feel free to let me know.

fakepeeps7
15th Nov 2010, 7:44 PM
Looks like a skeleton problem. You probably have more than one in there.

doorknob
15th Nov 2010, 11:02 PM
great how do I get rid of the 2nd skeleton? I did go back and try this mesh again and the same thing happened, I did not import a 2nd body. I did import a second body on this one though, I don't know I'll try something else and see if that works. the problem is that I don't feel like making the parts of the dress over again. Darn it. I guess I have to. you know more tutorials would be nice, or else I'm just not finding them or something. I'm having a great deal of trouble with bone assignments all though I did not do anything to the bone assignments on this body only the dress. if some one knows where there is a good tutorial on bone assignments I would appreciate it. thanks

fakepeeps7
15th Nov 2010, 11:20 PM
You could try importing a mesh that you know works, and then import your altered mesh on top of that (being sure not to add a second skeleton). Then just delete the first mesh.

You shouldn't need to do anything to bone assignments if you're using parts from meshes that work. The only reason you'd need to adjust bone assignments would be if you moved a piece, like if you moved a bow from the top of the dress to the bottom (or something similar).

doorknob
15th Nov 2010, 11:33 PM
ok I replaced the mesh completely with a working mesh, I did not alter the mesh in any way shape or form and it still exploded it in the same way!

I even tried on a new mesh it was the hula mesh and it exploded again!

and yes I am movie peices around quite a bit so I do need bone assignments. I'm actually making completely new peices from the skirt mostly. I made a bow and bracelet and all kinds of stuff. and I'm not 100% sure how to make the new assigments on them. the braclet was easy because I just assigned it to the wrist.

I'm also working on another mesh that is not complete so I haven't tested to see if it would explode but I made pieces from the skirt on that as well.
I made a hood should I assign it to head?

oh one more thing I have importer version 4.09 and it does not ask if I want a second skeleton or not. also on the joints tab I am only seeing one of every joint. And even if I did I do not have delete as an option.
I have beta 1.8.5 version of milkshape

fakepeeps7
16th Nov 2010, 7:32 PM
With bone assignments, the easiest thing is to use a working mesh as a template and copy the bone assignments to similar areas in your new mesh. Like if you've made a bow for the back of the skirt, use an old skirt from the game and copy the bone assignments from the skirt to the bow, using the values for closest vertices you can find. If you want the bow to move with the skirt, you'll have to copy more bones. If you want it to stand out stiff from the body, you'll be able to copy fewer (and most of the bones on the bow will have the same assignment and weight). It's a lot of work, so unless you feel like playing with hundreds of bone assignments, I'd suggest not making things that need to move smoothly (like skirts) from scratch.

As for the hood, most of it should be assigned to the head. I'm not sure how you'd get the bottom part to attach to the outfit (rather than move around like stiff hair), but that's probably to do with bone assignments, too. Look at the bone assignments of one of the long Maxis hairs to see how they get the bottom of the hair to sit on the shoulders.

MilkShape should be asking if you want to import a second skeleton. When it asks "Do you want to INCLUDE additional bone definitions?" you click "No". Otherwise, you'll get a second skeleton.

doorknob
16th Nov 2010, 9:20 PM
honestly I wasn't planning on attaching the hood. I figured it's so large that it sinks into the mesh so you can't see that it's not attached any way. Unfortunately because of the design it will probably move stiffly just like short hair would.(and I'm sure that long hair will stick out of the hood) I still have a lot of tweaking to do before I test it in the game. and of course I'm determined to get it as close to perfect as I can. I already worked too hard on it to give up. I've included and updated pic of what I've done I didn't attach parts yet since or recolor it since I'm still working on bone assignments and such.

as for the other dress I'm working on I did a few more tests on it, I did as you recommended and imported it over another mesh. there's still something wrong with it though(something else because it did seem to work at first but now I'm getting some kind of error). Since I have no idea what I decided to start from scratch on it. I've already made the parts for it several times so making it again isn't a problem just a pain. but right now I want to finish this child dress first since it's much less problematic. I've also included a picture of what I'm trying to imitate. as you can see I didn't follow it exactly I actually accidently made it a little different than what it was supose to look like. I might decided to make it more exact later if I can get this one to work.

fakepeeps7
16th Nov 2010, 9:41 PM
If you're converting to different ages, you can end up with distorted skeletons if you don't start out with the right age group. For example, if you want to make a mesh for a child, the first GMDC you need to import in MilkShape is a child's mesh. That will give you the correct skeleton. Then you can import your other meshes on top of that (making sure not to include additional skeletons); since you imported a child mesh first, it will still have the correct child skeleton, no matter what you do after that. If you try to import an adult or teen mesh first, you can get some really creepy distortions (like fingers that reach to the ground, or a head floating above a body that's puddled on the ground)!

doorknob
17th Nov 2010, 12:58 AM
wow thanks for that tip. I never tried to do an age conversion and didn't know that.

so far this is all made from the same mesh. I simply duplicated the mesh then made parts from it. I know there are going to be tones of problems with this though since 1 I'm not sure how to do bone assignments but yes I am insane so I will be playing with them for a while.

also now I'm trying to make the cape version. I've never seen any one do a cape before so I realize it may be impossible but that doesn't stop me because I really want to see what will happen if I try. Yes my insanity has no bounds. I didn't scrap anything so if it doesn't work I'll just go back to plan A.

any way do you have any idea what the dress bone assignment does? I've seen it on the list but I've never seen it assigned to anything yet. I wish there was more information some where on what all these bone assigments do. I realize I need to look at more meshes to find out if I can find them any where. Oh I did try hair meshing once but that was a nightmare so I'm putting off hairmeshing till I get clothing down. '

any way here's another pic of what I've got with cape version.

oh and I'm still adjusting the uv mapping. I know there are more problems with that too. like not having enough room on the map for every thing. I did resolve a few things and unfortunately the front and back of the cape will have to be colored the same.

fakepeeps7
17th Nov 2010, 7:14 PM
I have no idea what the "dress bone assignment" does. I've never used it.

That's a very ambitious project you've got going there, and I'm not even sure if it's going to be possible. To get the cape to move properly... my head almost explodes just thinking about it. You're going to have to adjust every single bone weight and assignment by hand, and make sure they transition smoothly... but I still think it's going to move strangely around the arms.

I don't think Maxis ever made a full cape like that, so it's probably pretty difficult to do. I think there's a cape that hangs down the Sim's back (one of the vampire outfits?), but it's not attached to the arms at all so it doesn't need to move smoothly.

If you don't have enough room to UV map everything, you can make certain parts smaller. Just make those parts of the texture smaller, too. I've done that when space has been tight. Unless it's an area with a lot of detail, you probably won't notice.

doorknob
17th Nov 2010, 9:11 PM
yeah I'm still working on the bone assignments. Doing them all using the extended manual edit, especially since the bone tool crashes the instant I try to use it. I haven't tested it yet because I'm still assigning bones. it's tedious work and it will be a while before I have every thing assigned as close to properly as I can get.

Like I said if it doesn't work I will go back to plan A. I just want to try it to see if it's even possible. I"ll let you know how it turns out but it may take me some time.

Also I'm mad because I can't get the puffy part right,(but I'm more worried about bone assignments at the moment) mine looks rigid I hate to ad more polys to this thing because it's already high. my computer can handle it but if I plan to upload it assuming I ever get it perfected, it might be an issue for others.

and believe me with that uv map I have a lot of troubles. I'm not exactly perfect at uv mapping to begin with. that's why I haven't uploaded any of my stuff because while my patterns make the distortion less noticable if some one god forbid tries to recolor it they will definately notice. but I am learning more and more as I do this project. (I learned pretty quickly I've only been meshing for about a month now. and I only meshed a few other things (much more simple edits))

I just wish there was a better more indepth tutorial on bone assignments some where, I realize you have to learn by trial and error but some one could at least tell us what the less obvious bones are and what different % variations will do to it.

my gut instinct tells me that the part at the top will stay there instead of going down with the arms. I noticed that meshes seem to strech when sims move but doubt that they shrink.

I already have sevral ideas on how to make this cape work, for example I could shrink it but I think it will clip out of the cape once the arms are extended to far above it,

I might try cuting the cape into pieces and making parts alpha so it will still apear to be intact then when the sims moves parts will simply blend together. this may or may not work just some of my thoughts.

well looks like its not even possible my simpe says my face count is too high and it is rediculously high its 3999 faces. I'm still trying to view it in body shop any way just to see. I hope I don't crash body shop oh boy. Or I may have to revise my design. I'm trying something else.

it may not be completely impossible if I can get the bone weights right and I revise my mesh. I included the latest picture I had to delete every thing but the cape to get it to work. yeah it's still pretty messed up but I assume this is due to bone weights being off.

by the way what is a good number for a face count, mine is still in the 3000 range?

doorknob
20th Nov 2010, 2:48 PM
alright I admit defeat. I have tried and I just don't know how to fix the problem. I keep getting this point sticking up in the back and it keeps tearing in the same place. I've adjusted the bone weights countless times and don't feel like doing it any more so I give up. Besides it's time for me to move on to more important projects.

I may pick it back up someday and try again but for now I put this project down.

here's a final pic of what I've got.

fakepeeps7
20th Nov 2010, 7:16 PM
That point at the back may just be the way the cape bends. What happens if you hit F6 (so her arms are sticking out to the sides)? Is the point still there, or does it disappear?

Yeah, 3999 is a bit high for the number of faces. That's really more in the 4000 range! I think most full body meshes are somewhere in the 2000s. My most recent mesh was kind of high at 2984, and SimPE complained about it, too (it said there were too many faces). That was because of the roses I stuck on the back of the coat. I haven't noticed any problems with the game running slowly, so it's probably still okay. I'm not sure what would happen if I tried to use a mesh with nearly 4000 faces on this old machine, though.

Makes some other, simpler meshes in the meantime and maybe come back to this one later when you have a better grasp of things (and maybe you can get the Bone Tool to stop crashing your MilkShape by then, too).

Good luck!

doorknob
21st Nov 2010, 12:21 AM
Hmmm in that regard it seems like all my meshes are little high in the face count department. It hasn't slowed my computer down in the least but I will say that I have a lot downloads in my download folder(last time I check it was about 4000 items) and while my computer runs the same it does get really hot when I play sims 2.

Any how I will be working on simpler meshes for the time being. But this one wasn't a total lose I feel I did learn maybe a tiny bit about bone assignments from it.

and when I push f6 it does go away but there still one strange hole near the shoulders. What do I press to make her arms go back down? I then pressed all the f buttons to see what they did and couldn't find one that made them go back down, including pressing f6 again.

and thank you for all your help you are wonderful! at least some one still tries to help us noobs out.

fakepeeps7
21st Nov 2010, 7:03 PM
Click on the refresh button (it's a little round arrow beside where you name your project). That should make her arms go back down.

doorknob
22nd Nov 2010, 7:25 AM
oh ok I was looking at it through the create new clothing but I will now view it from load recolor(or what ever the option is called I can't remember sorry) from now on. thank you.