Joined Union!?

[May93]

I'm kind of really annoyed right now. Because of this:
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/Saki-M/thehell.png

It's just... joined union? It's marriage!
I know in real life in the UK it's like this at the moment and in other countries it's worse but I thought my Sims game was better than that ='(

[FranH]

Look at it this way: the sims game recognizes it as being perfectly normal, which is a lot better than the United States and other countries do as a whole.

I think it's pretty pathetic when a game has a better 'moral vision' than real people do-and doesn't make moral judgements on human sexuality.

We could learn a few things from that.

[dieKristina]

Take a look at these hacks: http://www.simbology.com/smf/index.php?topic=14.0
I use them all.

[Tzigone]

Takes time for things to change, I guess. In TS3, it's marriage.

[labellavienna]

Awwwww...I volunteered at Gay Pride this year at San Francisco, there were thousands and thousands of people! In fact, I dare say that there were more straight people there than there were gay people. Don't worry gay marriage will be a reality in a few years time!

[smellincoffee]

This game came out in the US in...2004. That same year, people across the United States were amending their constitutions to explicitlity ban gay marriage, civil unions, etc. even when there was no pressing demand for unions and marriages in the first place. (No one in Alabama would petition for gay marriage. We're still getting a handle on that civil rights thing. :rolleyes: ) For its time, for its dominant market, EA was brave indeed, I think. In the original game, there was no marriage option for gay Sims: just "move in". EA may be despicable in many ways, but this is one case where I for one salute them.

[DigitalSympathies]

What do you mean there's no . . . OH, we're talking about America here. Stupid worldly me. I agree with smellincoffee here about the game's release date, but it made me wonder why they didn't slip a name change in in one of the later expansion packs.

[May93]

I guess you're right considering the release date.

I was just so sure that it was marriage for same sex relationships I was just a bit upset when I saw this today =|

[StrangeTownChick]

I'm just glad a marraige-like option is in the game at all. I don't know what Stonebridge would be without my gay simmies (The town was actually founded by Karyn and Genesis Runner, a lesbian couple)

[MattShizzle]

Yeah and how many countries even allowed gay marriage in 2004? Right now its only a handful of them and a few US states.

[lauratje86]

The Sims 2 has marriage for opposite-gender relationships and joined union for same-gender relationships. The UK has marriage for opposite-gender relationships and civil partnerships for same-gender relationships. For me it seems realistic that they did it the way they did, but as I hope to see same-sex marriage made legal in the UK soon I can't say I agree with it being the way it is! As my game is loosely based on the UK*, though, I don't use a hack to change it. I'm glad that it's possible at all - as others have said, it was quite forward thinking for the time when it was released...

*But with waaaaay more alien abductions! :-D

[ella_in_wonderland]

I hated the stupid 'Joined-Union' thing! I've downloaded the Simbology (I think it was?) Hack that changes it to marriage, which is what it is.


edit: And anyway, the Sims is a game, not real life. In Call of Duty or Skyrim you're allowed to murder people and no one gets upset!

Sorry about the rant. This is something I feel passionate about.

[gazania]

I saw it as a start. I suppose that back then, the devs didn't want to offend people who had differing views on gay marriage. On the other hand, the devs didn't want to ignore some sort of recognition when two gay people wanted to spend the rest of their lives together. This might have been a type of compromise. To be rather crude about it, EA is a business, and probably wanted to coax some money from various wallets, whatever views on marriage the players possessed.

Thank goodness FOR mods that allow you to alter the game slightly so that all couples could be considered "married", if that is what you want in your game. EA started the ball rolling ... the free creator or creators who devised this mod carried things a step further..

[Saturnfly]

I don't see why you can't call it a marriage, just because the game considers it a joined union. Times are changing, marriage is legal in many places for same sex couples. I think we should consider ourselves lucky that we were given the option at all, to have gay relationships in our game.

At the time of the release, gay marriage was called joined union. That's only slowly starting to change now.

[Tempscire]

I think it's pretty pathetic when a game has a better 'moral vision' than real people do-...
But, uh, to be fair to people in general, that game didn't just spring forth from the ground fully formed: real people created it. The superior moral vision of the game was developed by real people who have that moral vision (or at least, had bosses who had that vision/lawyers who debated an acceptably defensible vision and handed down an edict). And since it is a game and none of its constituent characters actually have their own free will, their own culture, their own opinions outside of what the developers gave them, it's a lot easier for them to all adhere to a monoculture of tolerance.

It'd be nice if people were all as blindly accepting as Sims are on the major issues we debate over today, but I wouldn't call the difference "pathetic" when we real people collectively have so many more obstacles to deal with. It's not an accomplishment for simple, artificial people to have just never been designed with a "brain" that distinguishes race or sexuality or the baggage of gender roles. But it is an accomplishment for the real people to have designed those tolerant people. As people have pointed out, even 2004 was a different time re: gay marriage than it is today. (If The Sims had been designed at a different decade still within living memory, interracial marriage wouldn't have been an option, let alone "joined unions"!) That's an accomplishment of real people pushing toward a more moral vision of the world.

Hmm, that was a bit more soapboxy than I intended. :beer: To progress!

[zumppe]

The superior moral vision of the game was developed by real people who have that moral vision...

...That's an accomplishment of real people pushing toward a more moral vision of the world.

Indeed, but we humans are not fighting some "alien oppressor" to make a better world, we are fighting ourselves. Man is man's worst enemy, creating obstacles and misery for ourselves, needed to be battled out, against ourselves. Supposedly being the top creation, superior to all other creatures... like Shania Twain sings: That Don't Impress Me Much. :lol:

[labellavienna]

I think the majority of people who are oppose to the idea are religious zealots and deeply insecure/homophobic people. To them being gay will never make sense, but that is slowly changing because those thoughts and ideals are slowly "dying off" (if you get what I mean ;) and the new generation is a lot more accepting. It really makes no sense why a country like the US - who wants to be the modern world police, can have such backwards and outdated values.

[TortureTheNannies]

In 2004, when Sims 2 was created, few states or nations allowed gay marriage. It was progressive and open minded of the sims to allow them to use rings, wedding arches, and live together as couples, which some people will always protest. Still, if some of the sims want to be gay, that doesn't make me gay, right, or wrong. Hence, I let them be gay. In 2012, US states and some nations have laws that make gay marriage permissible. It is marriage now.. but as you can see, some people still protest against it. I'm not annoyed by joined union. Maybe somebody can mod this for you. To me, it's a compromise from what is already a by-gone era.
Once again, EA has the grand art of waving a white flag and trying to be everything for everyone. We end up with joined unions. We also end up with woo-hoo and no sex. Juice bars without wine. A thousand cooking fires but no guns. Fist fights all over the park, but no arrests made. I think they did good enough.

Think if this game had been published in 1955. Few sims would have bathing suits. There would be no interracial marriage. And we wouldn't even have double beds !!! but that would be consistent with the times.

[julmoo]

How did they make babies in 1955 if they didn't have double beds? o.O

Anyway: To me it's actually the opposite, I don't like the term marriage because it's something that has been invented (mainly) by religions. I respect religion, the ideas and different faiths, but I personally don't like their execution, including the idea of marriage.

To me joined union would be appropriate to "normal" relationships as well.

[Darby]

Once again, EA has the grand art of waving a white flag and trying to be everything for everyone. We end up with joined unions. We also end up with woo-hoo and no sex. Juice bars without wine. A thousand cooking fires but no guns. Fist fights all over the park, but no arrests made. I think they did good enough.

I so agree. I've often marveled at what a great job they did straddling the lines on controversial issues.

So many discussions over the years about "creatures", for instance, with some saying they shouldn't have been included. (People fearing "the occult" and all; same people suspicious of the eeeevil Harry Potter books.)

I think the devs did a great job making creatures both easy (relatively) to get, and even easier to avoid, for those who disapprove.

The Joined Union was also a good compromise that simply reflects the reality of the day. I do object, though, to them not counting same-sex unions in the Marry Off 6 Children LTW. That wasn't fair.

ETA:I don't like the term marriage because it's something that has been invented (mainly) by religions. I respect religion, the ideas and different faiths, but I personally don't like their execution, including the idea of marriage.

I don't mind the term "marriage", but I do think of it as a religious institution, and for that reason, I think we need to take marriage out as a legal institution entirely, and call them "joined unions" for all couples. That way, any couple wanting to be in legally-recognized domestic partnership would have a "joining" ceremony that would be the legal part, and couples wanting additional (but not legally required) recognition from their church as being married could have that ceremony as well. This would protect the rights of religious organizations to refuse to carry out marriage ceremonies they have a problem with from a religious standpoint, because whether or not one agrees with the religious stance, they have a right to it.

[maxon]

How did they make babies in 1955 if they didn't have double beds? o.O
A double bed isn't a requirement, you know. Or even a desideratum for some people.

[Darby]

People had double beds in the 50's. Just not in tv shows!

[TortureTheNannies]

How did they make babies? I think the producer hired someone to supply them. I agree with Maxon, any old haystack would do if people are in the mood. But you look at old TV.. How did they have children if they never slept in the same bed?!!

[sushigal007]

How did they make babies in 1955 if they didn't have double beds? o.O

Sharing towels after bathing, obviously.

[Darby]

Uh hellooo, STORK. :rofl:

[RahRahReplica]

It is wonderful how The Sims is an ideal example of living equally, rather like the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Well, almost.
I do think we should try and live up to the example our Sims set.
I've actually realised this more and more since I started living in a Muslim country. I've been in Egypt for a year now and there are things that, as a woman, I just "can't" do. And non-Egyptians are also very discriminated against (and Egyptians in relation to Westerners). But in the Sims, every Sim can do exactly the same thing regardless of gender or race. The only things that are specific are age related and the Joined Unions. Pretty damn amazing if you ask me.

The Joined Union was also a good compromise that simply reflects the reality of the day. I do object, though, to them not counting same-sex unions in the Marry Off 6 Children LTW. That wasn't fair.

Really! They don't count joined unions!? WHAT!

Is there a mod to fix this. Not all of my six babied families will have straight children.

[Darby]

Yes, TwoJeffs created several Same Sex mods to cover such issues.
http://www.simbology.com/smf/index.php?topic=14.0

[StrangeTownChick]

That's good for me too. Kate Terry wants to marry off six children. She has six children. So far the first two have turned out to be straight, but that doesn't mean they all will.