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ktbcca
6th Aug 2010, 4:17 AM
It came to my attention today via facebook that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to make a decision on whether or not a law prohibiting the sale (or rental) of violent videos games to minors (under 18) is unconstitutional under the first amendment (freedom of speech).

From what I gather the law imposes strict fines on any company that sells or rents violent video games to minors and also wants those games to be labelled clearly as 18+.

This:
http://mediacoalition.org/mediaimages/Schwarzenegger_Eagle%20Forum%20Amicus_07.19.10.pdf
is in support of the law. A lot is said about the effect of violent video games on children, going as far as to say a child playing a violent game is nearly equivalent to a child joining a gang. It also mentions that playing a video game is not free speech because it is classified as "conduct". It compares video games to playing black jack when it attempts to clarify what "conduct" is, and playing black jack is not free speech. I definitely recommend reading it.

This:
http://www.mediacoalition.org/mediaimages/EMA%20v%20Schwarzenegger_EMA%20and%20ESA%20Opp%20Cert.pdf
is in support of the decision the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals made declaring the law unconstitutional.
It argues that video games, like art and music, contain the type of expression that is protected by the first amendment. It also explains that the ESRB rating system is clearly enough as it is very widely used and has made a great impact. I also highly recommend reading this.

I absolutely did not cover all the arguments made so like I said, I recommend reading both.

Personally, I 100% agree with the EMA. I do agree that a state can pick and chose what is and isn't appropriate for minors as a way to control or protect them. The ESRB is there for a reason, and it works for a reason. The ratings are not tainted by any political or personal beliefs and parents can easily access them and decide what they think is best for their children.

If books, movies, and music are all free speech, then video games are as well. In my opinion, playing a video game is like watching a movie, reading a book, AND listening to music (the soundtrack) all at the same time. It isn't just like playing black jack, it's a form of expression depending on how you go about playing the game. Also, buying a video game falls under free speech just like buying a book does. If I buy a book about Nazis it could mean one of many things but that doesn't matter, I have the right to buy that book. If I buy a video game about Nazis, it's the same deal.

I am not one to believe that video games with violence cause violence. My husband once told me playing video games is what kept him from killing himself or someone else at one point in his life. He was able to go into the game and forget about all his anger and worries. There is absolutely no concrete evidence that these games cause violent behavior.

I could go on, but I really want to hear other opinions.

Are video games protected under the first amendment?
Do you think this law should be upheld?

EDIT: I would like to add a link to a petition against this law, if you're interested.
http://action.theeca.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=1781

PS-Although I do live in Canada, I am a US citizen so this does concern me.
PPS- Did a thorough search and did not find any threads on this topic, please point me in the right direction if I missed it.

Nekowolf
6th Aug 2010, 11:31 AM
I actually used to be rather on top of this stuff. But I fell out of it (mainly because the main site I went to, eh, sort of went downhill for me).

There have been -several- cases in several states, including some appeals (like in California), and each and every time, they have been ruled unconstitutional as violations of the First Amendment.

Also; the proponents of those laws have jack shit for any form of evidence that supports any of their claims. Either the research (proper research, that is) is inconclusive, or in some cases, actually opposes what they believe.

grumpy_otter
6th Aug 2010, 11:47 AM
Isn't this analogous to the movie rating system? I don't see anybody protesting that that's unconstitutional.

ktbcca
6th Aug 2010, 3:26 PM
Because like the ESRB, the group that does movie ratings (CARA- http://www.filmratings.com/filmRatings_Cara/ ) is an independent group.

EDIT: My mistake, the MPAA is the group that does the film ratings.

paksetti
6th Aug 2010, 6:55 PM
The decision should be left up to the parents-not the state. While I believe that violent video games don't cause violence- (they can actually help you to relax), I dunno if I'd be comfortable buying Grand Theft Auto for a four year old. Keep the ratings system as a guide for parents to decide what's best for their kids.

Vanito
6th Aug 2010, 7:44 PM
Again another example of people who think the state should be doing idiotic things because parents do not educate their kids well.
Viceogames do not make normal people violent, instead they sould forbid churches with signs like "GOD HATES YOU" etc now that DOES makes kids violent.

No logic, no common sense, just another USA Jerry Spinger drama.

fakepeeps7
6th Aug 2010, 8:22 PM
If they rule it's okay for kids to play violent video games, won't they then have to rule that it's okay to sell porn to children? Porn should be covered by "free speech", too, if that's the argument they want to use...

Nekowolf
6th Aug 2010, 9:16 PM
Porn is not violent video games. Books are protected by First Amendment. Movies are too. So why are they okay, and not violent video games? Why must the ESRB be legally enforced, but not the MPAA?

fakepeeps7
6th Aug 2010, 9:24 PM
Porn is not violent video games. Books are protected by First Amendment. Movies are too. So why are they okay, and not violent video games? Why must the ESRB be legally enforced, but not the MPAA?

I know porn is not violent video games. But some people consider it a form of art, just like video games, books, and mainstream movies. My question was how they can allow one form of art but not another.

Nekowolf
6th Aug 2010, 9:44 PM
Oh. I mistook how you meant it, sorry. Anyway; The Miller Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test), established in Miller v. California That is generally what is used to define such cases.

fakepeeps7
6th Aug 2010, 10:04 PM
Okay... But how does that apply to children? As far as I know, children aren't allow to buy or view porn. The question of video games here seems to be not whether you can sell them, but whether you can sell them to minors.

If it's unconstitutional to block the sale of violent video games to children, isn't it also unconstitutional to block the sale of porn, cigarettes, and alcohol to children?

Nekowolf
6th Aug 2010, 10:34 PM
Well cigarettes and alcohol have physical damaging affects, so those fall under completely different circumstances.

The thing about porn is, under the Miller Test, it could easily be considered as "obscene," thereby excluding it from First Amendment protection. Currently, from what I know, obscenity laws are still in effect. You may also want to look into United States v. Extreme Associates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America_v._Extreme_Associates).

So the difference is porn is generally considered as obscene as per the Miller Test, where as video games, violent or not, has more leeway.

Undercovers_Agent
9th Aug 2010, 7:53 PM
Okay... But how does that apply to children? As far as I know, children aren't allow to buy or view porn.

See it's like pot, it's illegal but people still smoke it. I think that it shouldn't be harsh, but still effect things if it passes. For instance a 4 year old shouldn't be alowed to own GTA IV or play it in my opinion.