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MTS Summer Movie Night - posted on 13th Jun 2018 at 10:07 PM
Replies: 31 (Who?), Viewed: 2326 times.
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Lab Assistant
#26 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 9:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShigemiNotoge
Comfort and environment used to be needs bars like hunger, sleep, and hygiene. Replacing those need bars with useless moodlets in sims 3 really took a whole layer out of the game.


Mm, I would argue that they are needs, but simply not needs that deteriorate over an amount of time like the other needs. Instead, Comfort and Environment are more dependent on the immediate situation. Take, for example, the office chair I'm sitting in right now. It's not comfy. It was never comfy, and it never will be. But I don't feel my sense of comfort deteriorating because of it, it will remain at a similar level as I sit in it. If I go sit on my comfy couch, however, I will be significantly more comfy. The same goes for environments. If I'm in a well-decorated room that's clean, I will overall have a positive impression of it. That impression will not necessarily deteriorate unless something negative happens to the room.

I would say, though, that the implementation of moodlets in The Sims 3 is a sidestep rather than a full-on loss of a layer. The end-goal is the same: maximize the mood of the Sim by creating the most beautiful environment for them and keeping them as comfortable as possible. The moodlet system had the opportunity to add a layer by exploring the kind of nuance I talked about above, but only stuck in its big toe. There are a few moodlets like Beautiful Vista and Well-Decorated Room that casually tow this nuance, but don't really go in deeper. We don't see any moodlets like a negative "Busy Room" for an overly-decorated room, or a negative "Bright Colors" for an environment with neon colors. And the situation for comfort is similar.
Mad Poster
#27 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
I know. I probably wouldn't mind it being done one or the other way. One is such a situational need, the other - eh. It doesn't do much, just to let you know it's optional to fulfill it and sims would prefer having a nicely decorated room. Though in certain storyline plots, it shouldn't be made of a big deal If you have a homeless or just poor family that cannot do anything about that, so I rather have not them bitch every moment when they should be used to the environment they live in


Just chiming in to say that Environment and Comfort were not bad needs.

Comfort was great, and different Sims needed different levels of comfort (being a lazy Sim made it drop faster if your Sim was doing anything but being lazy, which allowed active Sims to do more before being fitigued), and these variances in gameplay allowed players to reinforce who Sims were. Also, comfort was more than bed and chairs - it also pertained to health. I think being sick plumeted your comfort levels, so a Sims was never able to be comfortable. Even with all other needs full, a Sim never felt comfortable, which reinforced storytelling.

Environment is important, being directly related to the hierarchy of needs. I think it’s dependent on traits... neater and snobby Sims care deeply about thier living conditions, based on cleanliness as well as total value of what’s in the home (which pertains to vanity and the consumerism of the original game), while other Sims do not care case as deeply about the rooms worth or hygiene.

This is why I prefer the original trait system - the values applied to every Sim, rather than having ONE neat freak in town and everyone is kind of okay about messes, with one slob. Having a scale of 0-10 for something determines what and how well all Sims respond to stimuli in their environment, as opposed to an if/else situation. With an if else, you can be guaranteed that a Sim with 0 cleanliness with clean up, a Sim with 3 will if the stars align, a 5 might of they’re in the mood, a Sims 7 usually will, and a Sims 10 will move mountains to clean a crumb off the counter. There were shades of gray to Sims that the trait system can’t realize.

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Lab Assistant
#28 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 4:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix54
This is why I prefer the original trait system - the values applied to every Sim, rather than having ONE neat freak in town and everyone is kind of okay about messes, with one slob. Having a scale of 0-10 for something determines what and how well all Sims respond to stimuli in their environment, as opposed to an if/else situation. With an if else, you can be guaranteed that a Sim with 0 cleanliness with clean up, a Sim with 3 will if the stars align, a 5 might of they’re in the mood, a Sims 7 usually will, and a Sims 10 will move mountains to clean a crumb off the counter. There were shades of gray to Sims that the trait system can’t realize.


I do think doing away with the old personality system was a bit of a mistake, but I don't necessarily think the traits system in 3 was wrong, either. Instead, I think it would have been more interesting if Sims were not only allotted their 25 points or whatever it was, but were additionally given three unique personality traits.
Top Secret Researcher
#29 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 6:02 PM
I think you could combine the points personality system and traits. Both "Neat" and "Slob" could be represented on the points counter (at different extremes, also allowing for middle-of-the-road people), while something like "clumsy," "kleptomaniac," or "insane" would be a trait.
Theorist
#30 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 6:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusannaG
I think you could combine the points personality system and traits. Both "Neat" and "Slob" could be represented on the points counter (at different extremes, also allowing for middle-of-the-road people), while something like "clumsy," "kleptomaniac," or "insane" would be a trait.

That's brilliant. Instead of trying to endlessly argue about which system is better, we should be taking the best points of both and combining them into a superior system to be able to make the most unique, interesting sims possible. And do so in ways that actually matter. This way every sim has a value for important, common personality traits that have more of a spectrum such as cleanliness, friendliness, etc, but also allows for more customisation when used along side yes/no value traits such as kleptomaniac, vegetarian. etc.
#31 Old 16th Mar 2018 at 9:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix54

This is why I prefer the original trait system - the values applied to every Sim, rather than having ONE neat freak in town and everyone is kind of okay about messes, with one slob. Having a scale of 0-10 for something determines what and how well all Sims respond to stimuli in their environment, as opposed to an if/else situation. With an if else, you can be guaranteed that a Sim with 0 cleanliness with clean up, a Sim with 3 will if the stars align, a 5 might of they’re in the mood, a Sims 7 usually will, and a Sims 10 will move mountains to clean a crumb off the counter. There were shades of gray to Sims that the trait system can’t realize.


Though things like kleptomaniac could come in a form of just 1-point-scale trait.
Forum Resident
#32 Old 17th Mar 2018 at 3:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix54
This is why I prefer the original trait system - the values applied to every Sim, rather than having ONE neat freak in town and everyone is kind of okay about messes, with one slob. Having a scale of 0-10 for something determines what and how well all Sims respond to stimuli in their environment, as opposed to an if/else situation. With an if else, you can be guaranteed that a Sim with 0 cleanliness with clean up, a Sim with 3 will if the stars align, a 5 might of they’re in the mood, a Sims 7 usually will, and a Sims 10 will move mountains to clean a crumb off the counter. There were shades of gray to Sims that the trait system can’t realize.


This is why I prefer the point system over traits. It makes their personalities so much more diverse. In combination with attraction it makes sims more interesting.

Right now I have a feeling that personality doesn't matter much. In Sims 3 they at least had counterparts for certain traits, like: Loves Art and Can't stand Art. Since we don't have that anymore, most of the social actions will be accepted as positive. The friendly socials are filled to the brim with different commands, but the outcome is basically always the same. In both sims 2 and 3, friendly socials could be interpreted as negative depending on points or traits. But in Sims 4 my geek sim and artistic sim can be best friends are are always interested in what the other has to say.

Now imagine what would happen if the all personality traits we could choose from in TS4 turned into a point system. And every social interaction was linked to that point system. I think it would make things a lot more interesting.
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