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Banned
Original Poster
#1 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 3:28 AM
Default I'm Sorry, the Bible doesn't make sense!
I've been a Christian my whole life, because both my parents were, so I just really didn't have a decision as a small child. Now, I don't consider myself a Christian. So many things about this religion conflict with what we know, what is PROVEN to be true. Some examples off the top of my head:

*The whole creation thing. Bam the world was created, animals and humans RIGHT OFF THE BAT. No dinosaurs. No evolution. No ancient creatures. No Mesopotamia. Things that are PROVEN to have existed. You say, "It's called faith." I say, "Yeah. But what would you trust more, faith or hard core PROOF?"

*Um, God loves everyone? But not gays? Not people of other religions? Or atheists? Or people who have sex before marriage?...the list goes on and on.

I mean absolutely no disrespect for anyone, it's just an opinion of mine, and I want to know what other people think.
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Forum Resident
#2 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 3:40 AM
The Bible has so much stuff in it that you can support just about any position. For instance, love your neighbors, keep slaves, etc. It is best not to read it as a literal handbook on how things were 4000 years ago and still should be today. If you read it that way, of course it makes no sense. Extract the spirit of it, try to understand the different parts in their own context, and as far as I'm concerned, it's okay to think some parts of it are just plain dumb and wrong.
Field Researcher
#3 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 3:51 AM
Faith is just another form of truth... even if you call all this stuff proof it's all only theoretical, you know? Even if you believe in science, it can only go so far then you'd have to believe in God. If we're talking about evolution yes there was evolution but obviously there's something beyond that. I don't consider myself a Christian, I don't even really believe in religion because of all the history of Christianity and ALL religions actually. It's weird that in Eastern mysticism people thought God was a woman (mother Earth) and in western religions they think God is a man. If there was a God, why would it be a woman or a man? Male or female? Because you would need both to create any living thing, right? (Of course, Science is somehow changing that but it's only a copy of what's real)

Christianity has nothing to do with faith in my eyes, it's just another form of control. Faith is in believing that there is something bigger than you that you can't control and you have to accept it. Think about it, science is actually just another religion. If you look at the definition of religion: ''a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.''

Gandhi said 'There are as many religions as there are people' because even if millions of people believe in Christianity, they will not all think the same.

And about your comment saying 'right off the bat there were animals and humans', in Philosophy, if you don't consider time a factor, yes everything would have happened right off that bat. It's like forget about the past... and you just wake up every morning and everything just IS right in front of you. For example, when you turn on a computer/internet and everything just IS. Yesterday it wasn't there, tomorrow it won't be the same, it just IS. Of course it's faster on the internet than in real life.

There are three sides to a story:
Your side, the other person's side and the truth.

The Sims Cubed
Banned
Original Poster
#4 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 4:21 AM
I understand some things are theoretical, but...I would just have to trust that over "faith" in things. And the "right off the bat" thing was just my way of saying that the Bible skips several million years.

And I do think the Bible is meant to be just sort of a metaphorical type thing, for lack of better wording, but most Christians don't think of it that way.

I remember learning about evolution in school and people got MAD about it.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 4:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by supaclova
I understand some things are theoretical, but...I would just have to trust that over "faith" in things. And the "right off the bat" thing was just my way of saying that the Bible skips several million years.

And I do think the Bible is meant to be just sort of a metaphorical type thing, for lack of better wording, but most Christians don't think of it that way.

I remember learning about evolution in school and people got MAD about it.


Well, think about how many times the bible's been translated, too. Entire books could have been added or removed.
Lab Assistant
#6 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 6:25 AM
If you look at the creation account in the bible as an analogy, then the possibility exists for scientifically supported theories, such as the age of the earth, to agree with the bible rather than contradict it.

Here's a contradiction for you: God loves everyone. But he also hates everyone. He loves everyone because he is good. He hates everyone because they do evil.

Many Christians look to the bible for absolute truth, when in fact, it is God who is the source of absolute truth. After all, mere men wrote the bible. If you seek truth, seek God. And the bible is a good place to start.
Field Researcher
#7 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 6:26 AM
Quote: Originally posted by RiBlan
Well, think about how many times the bible's been translated, too. Entire books could have been added or removed.


Right...according to the agenda of the church. Thusly why I don't understand the people that call it the literal word of God.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Undead Molten Llama
#8 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 4:52 PM
It actually does make sense when read in cultural/historical context and NOT literally. From what the OP said, it's the Old Testament that's confounding her, as it does for most people. This is because people, Christian or otherwise:

A) Read it literally where it isn't at all meant to be literal. (Like when it comes to, say, the first 10-or-so chapters of Genesis.)

B) Know nothing of the period of history in which the Hebrews lived AND don't understand the Hebrews culture to which the OT is directly addressed, nor the cultures that surrounded the Hebrews. If you do understand those things, the OT makes all sorts of sense. Most people have no clue about those cultures, though. Particularly, people (creationist Christian people in particular) don't understand the Hebrew/ANE cultures' well-documented propensity toward speaking and writing in very complex allegory. (See "A" above.)

C) Don't understand that the OT law is no longer in effect, in that it has been supplanted by obeying the edicts of Christ (Which is where all the love stuff comes in, BTW. There ain't much love in the OT, I'm afraid. *laughs*), not the law given to the Hebrews. This is further compounded/confused by a tendency of certain Christians (Like...oh...Fred Phelps) to quote a certain Scripture and proclaim that it means that the OT law is still in full effect. In fact, it means exactly the opposite!

D) Try to make the Ancient Near Eastern culture and customs apply to the modern world. It doesn't and never will. Moreover, it doesn't matter because of "C" above. God doesn't change, but culture does. And EVERYTHING changed, when it comes to the God/humanity relationship, when Jesus died.

In short: People make it far more complicated than it needs to be in some places and far less complicated that it should be in others. The result is much confusion. Lucia Carlota said this:
Quote:
Many Christians look to the bible for absolute truth, when in fact, it is God who is the source of absolute truth.


...and she is absolutely right. The Bible instructs us about God, teaches us how to approach Him, and shows us the history of His relationship to us, the latter being the entire purpose of the OT. It is full of spiritual truth, not all of which is easy to understand and much of which is not at all easy to accept. But the Bible is not something meant to tell you how to live, despite the common notion that that is its purpose. Nor is it meant to teach you about science. And certainly it is not meant to be a tool by which you tell other people how to live. More Christians need to realize this.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Test Subject
#9 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 5:25 PM Last edited by AlexNN : 26th Sep 2009 at 12:53 AM.
I'm buddist, but I don't go to temple often, and I also believe in evolution and hard proof, but I also believe in faith, I can't say I don't believe in God, in my case Budda. It's faith, the invisible thing, that keeps me together and still believe in Good. Without faith I don't know the reason for me to exist in this world and my life is worth something.

Everybody needs something to hold on to, to live with their life.

About your last question, please everyone don't mad at me, my opinion:


I believe that all Bibles (for all religions), were written long before we have gay and les, and ...So....

I also believe that we human created all religions long time before because we needed them, we needed to live better with values which defined who we were.
All Bibles have same basic moral principle, the other things are different because of different personalities of creators and followers from time to time in each different region.

Like me, I tried Christian and Catholic before, and I think Buddist fits my personality more than others.

I don't talk about religion, but I wondered something like you before, so I just try to share something.

Don't eat me.
Theorist
#10 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 6:02 PM
I usually don't get into religious debates because I always feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall trying to explain my viewpoint as a Christian. I would like to touch on a few points here, though.

First off, I think iCad has explained very well much of the problems with Christianity and the way it is viewed. Secondly, I think some Christians are some of the most arrogant people I have ever met in my life. That's not to say all of them are, because there are some absolutely wonderful Christians out there as well. Unfortunately, it's usually the arrogant ones who are spouting the most.

Here are a couple of things to think about when it comes to that type of problem. People, first and foremost, are human. We make mistakes. There's no doubt about it. Christians are no less human than anyone else. We all have our weaknesses that we have to fight on a daily basis. Every type of personality quirk that can be found in other people are also in Christians. Our goal is supposed to be to try to not let ourselves get caught up in weaknesses like greed, arrogance, etc., but to overcome those weaknesses for the salvation of our souls.

Quote:
*Um, God loves everyone? But not gays? Not people of other religions? Or atheists? Or people who have sex before marriage?...the list goes on and on.

"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son to come into the world that whosoever would believe could come unto repentance and gain everlasting life."

Does that sound like a God who doesn't love people? Think about it. Would you let your own son hang on a cross and die for the sake of people you don't love? God loves everyone. Their beliefs and their actions don't play into it. I find all too often people confuse God's love with God's acceptance or non-acceptance of certain acts or behaviors. If we read through the New Testament (the Old Testament is completely irrelevant when it comes to living as a Christian because it was fulfilled by Christ and a new law was brought in), we will see there are many different stumbling blocks we have to try to avoid on our path to salvation. This is why He gave us repentance. He has given us the opportunity to be sorry for what we have done wrong, and ask for His forgiveness. If a person is truly sorry, He will forgive them.

God is basically my parent. He has a set of rules, just like my fleshly parents had. When I disobeyed my fleshly parents, they didn't stop loving me. They punished me and expected me to do better the next time. God is no different.

Quote:
*The whole creation thing. Bam the world was created, animals and humans RIGHT OFF THE BAT. No dinosaurs. No evolution. No ancient creatures. No Mesopotamia. Things that are PROVEN to have existed. You say, "It's called faith." I say, "Yeah. But what would you trust more, faith or hard core PROOF?"

Why do dinosaurs and the Bible have to be mutually exclusive? This is something I've never understood. It's quite obvious those creatures roamed this earth. There is a line in the New Testament which says, "Great are the mysteries of God." God knows when they were there. He knows all the circumstances around their existence. There are some things I need to know, and some things I don't. I don't need to know the circumstances surrounding the existence of dinosaurs. It's enough for me to know that God knows.

As for trust, I have learned over my life to put my trust in God. When I have gone through bad times, He has always been there for me. He always picks me up when I fall, and sometimes I fall hard.

I think it's a crying shame that today so many of the people trying to represent Christianity are caught up in the very things Christianity teaches against. They are a great example of demonstrating we are human, but they are anything but good examples of Christianity.

In the end, I don't have all the answers. I believe in one God, Jehovah. I believe that He is my judge, and that it's not up to me to judge other people for their beliefs. I have enough trouble just trying to keep myself in line.
Undead Molten Llama
#11 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 7:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Misty_2004
God is basically my parent. He has a set of rules, just like my fleshly parents had. When I disobeyed my fleshly parents, they didn't stop loving me. They punished me and expected me to do better the next time. God is no different.


This is a very important point, indeed, and is an analogy that I keep in mind, as well. It seems that non-Christians get hung up on love, that they think that if God is loving, then He would never discipline, that He would be absolutely OK with everything anyone might want to do because He loves you unconditionally, etc., etc. (In my experience, ironically, these same people will often complain about the unruliness of children who lack parental discipline, and they never see the connection. It's quite funny.) They don't see that discipline -- even very tough discipline -- is usually an act of love, done because the parent, be it a fleshly one or God, knows that the behavior in which the child is indulging is going to lead to the child getting hurt in some way in the future, immediate or otherwise.

Quote:
There is a line in the New Testament which says, "Great are the mysteries of God." God knows when they were there. He knows all the circumstances around their existence. There are some things I need to know, and some things I don't.


For me, there are things that I struggle with God with every day, mysteries that I don't understand and likely never will understand until I am seated with Him. Seems to me that a lot of people who don't know God want it all spelled out for them up front, unequivocally. Once that's done to their satisfaction, THEN they'll accept that God exists and is who He says He is. That's why they get hung up on dinosaurs and the creation account and everything else that's commonly brought up as a protest to God/Christianity. It's a lack of trust, and that's something that our modern society has taught us; we trust only that which can be "proven" according to our own lauded "rationality." But that's not how God works. It was a difficult thing to reconcile myself to, having always cherished rationality, but I've accepted it. Many people can't. Faith and trust in things that transcend our understanding are lost arts, I think. Christians aren't even especially good at it, really.

Quote:
I think it's a crying shame that today so many of the people trying to represent Christianity are caught up in the very things Christianity teaches against.


Modern Christians are the modern Pharisees, in my opinion. Which is why Christianity has gained the reputation that it now has. In our age of short attention spans, not many Christians make the time to read the Bible in its entirety anymore, much less to fully understand it. They extract sound bites from it every bit as much as those who argue against it do. Yet, they go out and preach, usually in an arrogant and judgmental sort of way. It's a very dangerous combination.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Inventor
#12 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 8:08 PM
There is no comparison to God’s love and the love of a human parent, that concept have messed up people’s head more than opening spiritual insight into the love of God.

God and the bible are not one and the same, and the bible is not the only way or the chosen way to understand God! God is a spirit and can only be known by your spirit through Truth.
Field Researcher
#13 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 8:24 PM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
Many people can't. Faith and trust in things that transcend our understanding are lost arts, I think. Christians aren't even especially good at it, really.


This is the same mindset that allows people to fall into groups like Heaven's Gate. Thinking for yourself is the lost art, IMO.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Undead Molten Llama
#14 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 9:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
There is no comparison to God’s love and the love of a human parent, that concept have messed up people’s head more than opening spiritual insight into the love of God.


There is, actually. True, God loves more completely than a human parent does and has infinitely more patience than any human, but He is a parent nonetheless, and it's clear from history, not just the Bible, that He has acted accordingly, on occasion.

I agree with you, though, that God and the Bible are not the same. To put them on an equal level, so to speak, turns the Bible into an idol. Many Christians do worship the Bible as much as God. Really, the Bible is simply one way to get to know God and to understand the relationship between God and humanity. IMO, the most effective method, though, is being open to the Holy Spirit. But that's a whole other story.

Quote: Originally posted by girlgeek19
This is the same mindset that allows people to fall into groups like Heaven's Gate. Thinking for yourself is the lost art, IMO.


The trick is to combine them both, I think. Use rationality and discernment when prudent. But also realize that rationality will not and, likely, cannot explain everything, particularly not when one's perspective is limited, as is ours. Ask any quantum physicist about how science and reason can't explain everything. It seems like many people trust fully in one or the other and, IMO, that kind of extremist mindset is the more dangerous one.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Alchemist
#15 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 9:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by supaclova
I've been a Christian my whole life, because both my parents were, so I just really didn't have a decision as a small child. Now, I don't consider myself a Christian. So many things about this religion conflict with what we know, what is PROVEN to be true. Some examples off the top of my head:

*The whole creation thing. Bam the world was created, animals and humans RIGHT OFF THE BAT. No dinosaurs. No evolution. No ancient creatures. No Mesopotamia. Things that are PROVEN to have existed. You say, "It's called faith." I say, "Yeah. But what would you trust more, faith or hard core PROOF?"

*Um, God loves everyone? But not gays? Not people of other religions? Or atheists? Or people who have sex before marriage?...the list goes on and on.

I mean absolutely no disrespect for anyone, it's just an opinion of mine, and I want to know what other people think.


The Bible is a really well written book, but that's about it. In my opinion of course. Like you I believe in things that can be proven or there's hard evidence for. There's no evidence or definitive proof anywhere that The Bible is the word of God. It was written and edited by man. That being said I don't tell people what to believe
Field Researcher
#16 Old 25th Sep 2009 at 11:36 PM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
The trick is to combine them both, I think. Use rationality and discernment when prudent. But also realize that rationality will not and, likely, cannot explain everything, particularly not when one's perspective is limited, as is ours. Ask any quantum physicist about how science and reason can't explain everything. It seems like many people trust fully in one or the other and, IMO, that kind of extremist mindset is the more dangerous one.


Granted. But just because something can't be explained through science/physics/biology/whatever doesn't mean that the answer is found with a god. Philosophically speaking, it's better to suspend judgment when there isn't enough evidence rather than to rely on assumptions to come up with some kind of answer to hold us over until there is. Faith, at least to a number of theists means giving up on looking for answers because all answers = God to them.

Cait

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is ‘God is crying’. And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is ‘Probably because of something you did’."
- Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Forum Resident
#17 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 1:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by supaclova

(1)*The whole creation thing. Bam the world was created, animals and humans RIGHT OFF THE BAT. No dinosaurs. No evolution. No ancient creatures. No Mesopotamia. Things that are PROVEN to have existed. You say, "It's called faith." I say, "Yeah. But what would you trust more, faith or hard core PROOF?"

(2)*Um, God loves everyone? But not gays? Not people of other religions? Or atheists? Or people who have sex before marriage?...the list goes on and on.

I mean absolutely no disrespect for anyone, it's just an opinion of mine, and I want to know what other people think.

(1)One has to remember, that the bible has changed greatly over the decades. The modern bible is very little similar to the original text.

The Book of Jeremiah is 13% shorter than in our present Bible. This is also true in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Case in point, and this will go more for part 2 or your post, the word "Homosexual". The English word homosexual is a compound word made from the Greek word homo, meaning “the same,” and the Latin term sexualis, meaning “sex.” The term homosexual is of modern origin. There is no word in biblical Greek or Hebrew that is equivalent to the English word homosexual. The 1946 Revised Standard Version (RSV) New Testament was the first translation to use the word homosexual.


Also look to the story of Adam and Eve. The Bible says God created both Man and Woman at the same time.

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

But it also says God created Eve later from Adam's rib. For kicks, look up "Lilith"


(2) I want you to do a little research on the koline Greek word "Porneia" I think it will open your eyes when you see how this word in old text has been terrible miss translated.

Also remember, Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount that the only law is the law of love. He demonstrated this by reversing four of the OT laws which conflicted with loving people. Therefore anything that was hurtful, not by mutual consent etc. would be immoral for a Christian, but obviously not loving sexuality regardless of marital status or natural sexual orientation.

Quote: Originally posted by RiBlan
Well, think about how many times the bible's been translated, too. Entire books could have been added or removed.

http://www.thelostbooks.com/backbut.jpg

Entire books have been thrown out. Whole collections of books of the Old Testament which translators found troublesome were tossed out.

Case in point, the Gospel of Judas. Yes there was one, and it was tossed out. Keep in mind, the term "Gospel" means "The good word" of Judas. Judas in the current Bible is a fiend, traitor of Christ. How could there be a Gospel (Good word) of such a veil person?

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu9BgW...com/lostgospel/

Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
There is no comparison to God’s love and the love of a human parent, that concept have messed up people’s head more than opening spiritual insight into the love of God.

God and the bible are not one and the same, and the bible is not the only way or the chosen way to understand God! God is a spirit and can only be known by your spirit through Truth.
Why am I having flashbacks to that old thread where you spanked so many on the bible debate.

I look forward to what you have to offer in this style of debate.

Erasing One Big Astounding Mistake All-around
Alchemist
#18 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 5:23 AM
Quote: Originally posted by FlipGuardian
Faith is just another form of truth...


" truth " doesnt exist.
truth is determined by the individual regarding the given concept...hence, why some people deem something the truth, and others, may think its a load of shit.
and theres no absolute truth. theres no way to consistently prove that something is true, if the person they are persuading, believes it to be wholly false.
ultimately its up to the person, and perspectives change per person, to decide what they think is the truth....hence, many truths, and many lies. theres never just 1 set of absolute lies or absolute truths.

but i do think its pretty funny when people try to argue against it.
its like right and wrong, good and bad. by nature, NOTHING is bad or good. the actions or creatures themselves, are neither bad nor good. bad and good are just words we use to describe in an instant how we feel about that particular object/concept/whatever.
i for one, believe that it is true that spiders are the root of all evil. *serious face*
doesnt make it true to anyone else, does it? and it doesnt make spiders evil.

for the record, i dont think god created us in his/her/IT's image.
i think it was the other way around.
and if someone had to create us, who created god? thats what i'd like to know. the creationist concept is not supposed to be limited to just us. (;

EDIT: also, " translations " and " revisions ".
>> i think theyre just excuses for people to further use our own language[s] to manipulate our train of thought.
like has anyone noticed that the old bible was downright brutal and bloody [ oh and people STILL believed in that, wtf ], but now supposedly its tame and nice and fluffy? how the hell does that happen?
[ trick question: it happens because people have realized that in order to appeal to soft, fluffy people, they have to revise the text into soft, fluffy text. ]

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 5:24 AM
Quote: Originally posted by urisStar
the bible is not the only way or the chosen way to understand God! God is a spirit and can only be known by your spirit through Truth.


If, by that statement, you mean that Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, etc. can come to know God, then I disagree. I am a Christian. This means (or should mean) that I am a follower of Jesus Christ, who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." (John 14:6). And I believe Jesus really said that. When he said that, he meant that the only way to enter the presence of God is to accept that Jesus is God and let him take your punishment.

Quote: Originally posted by iCad
It seems that non-Christians get hung up on love, that they think that if God is loving, then He would never discipline, that He would be absolutely OK with everything anyone might want to do because He loves you unconditionally, etc.


"Christians" get hung up on love too.

Jesus offended a lot of people, especially the pharisees (the ones who thought they themselves had it all figured out, to the point where they could not recognize God as he stood in front of their very eyes). Jesus preached love, but it was clear he had enemies. God is goodness. He must bring evil to justice. Ultimately, if you reject God's will to defeat evil, you cannot be with him. The absence of God is hell.

I believe the gospel accounts of Jesus' life are accurate. Four different men wrote similar biographies, all around 70 years after Jesus himself lived, meaning the writers had access to first-hand witnesses of Jesus' life. In contrast, Moses recorded some of the stories in Genesis hundreds to thousands of years after they took place.
Field Researcher
#20 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 5:25 AM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
It actually does make sense when read in cultural/historical context and NOT literally. From what the OP said, it's the Old Testament that's confounding her, as it does for most people. This is because people, Christian or otherwise:

A) ...

B) ...

C) ...

D) ...

In short: (...).


I deleted my post which was pretty similar to this... I just said that the bible was stating laws that hebrews should follow like... a widowed woman should marry her dead husband's next of kin (uncle, brother or something) if they're not already married. And God actually told first cousins to marry.

The Bible also says to hurt people so it doesn't have anything to do with how to be good, it's just telling people how to act in their culture just the same way laws tell us how to act and we'll have to face the consequences of our actions.

As for me, I don't believe in any *religion* because all religion comes from a philosophy then is turned into a way to control large amounts of people. I like to believe in the philosophy of alchemy which is also a science.

There are three sides to a story:
Your side, the other person's side and the truth.

The Sims Cubed
Moderator
retired moderator
#21 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 6:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Lucia Carlota
Many Christians look to the bible for absolute truth, when in fact, it is God who is the source of absolute truth. After all, mere men wrote the bible. If you seek truth, seek God. And the bible is a good place to start.
Prayer is another great way to start.

Formerly known as boolPropped
Inventor
#22 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 6:18 AM
There is no comparison to God’s love and the love of a human parent, that concept have messed up people’s head more than opening spiritual insight into the love of God.

God and the bible are not one and the same, and the bible is not the only way or the chosen way to understand God! God is a spirit and can only be known by your spirit through Truth. Everyone has his or her own Truth and no one knows it but you and God, so it is like having your own way of communicating with Him.

Quote: Originally posted by iCad
There is, actually. True, God loves more completely than a human parent does and has infinitely more patience than any human, but He is a parent nonetheless, and it's clear from history, not just the Bible, that He has acted accordingly, on occasion.


I never said that God is not a Father/parent; I said, there is no comparison to God’s love and the love of a human parent. That statement goes beyond just His love, as most things that have been attributed to God is human and not of the spirit.

Quote: Originally posted by Amish Nick_SC
Why am I having flashbacks to that old thread where you spanked so many on the bible debate.

I look forward to what you have to offer in this style of debate.


I am in a different place and there is too much going on that can’t be seen at the moment that has my attention. Just for your eyes, the only thing that the new religion has with all the branches that has spring forth is the bible and for that the woman wears many crowns.

Quote: Originally posted by Lucia Carlota
If, by that statement, you mean that Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, etc. can come to know God, then I disagree. I am a Christian. This means (or should mean) that I am a follower of Jesus Christ, who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." (John 14:6). And I believe Jesus really said that. When he said that, he meant that the only way to enter the presence of God is to accept that Jesus is God and let him take your punishment.

"Christians" get hung up on love too.

Jesus offended a lot of people, especially the pharisees (the ones who thought they themselves had it all figured out, to the point where they could not recognize God as he stood in front of their very eyes). Jesus preached love, but it was clear he had enemies. God is goodness. He must bring evil to justice. Ultimately, if you reject God's will to defeat evil, you cannot be with him. The absence of God is hell.


God way is so much above yours, so is His understanding. God is not human and if He wanted to deal with evil, all He has to do is turn the words around and instead of being evil, you just live. All of God's creation live!
Undead Molten Llama
#23 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 6:24 AM
Quote: Originally posted by girlgeek19
Granted. But just because something can't be explained through science/physics/biology/whatever doesn't mean that the answer is found with a god.


Ahhhh, but it doesn't mean that isn't to be found with God, either. I'm not saying that that's always so, mind you, because it isn't...but I've found that sometimes it is so. Really, the trick, across the board, is discernment, figuring out the truth from amongst the blather and BS that all modern organized religions, including Christianity, have.

Quote:
Philosophically speaking, it's better to suspend judgment when there isn't enough evidence rather than to rely on assumptions to come up with some kind of answer to hold us over until there is. Faith, at least to a number of theists means giving up on looking for answers because all answers = God to them.


The question then, though, becomes what constitutes evidence. If you ask me, there is plenty of evidence for God's existence.(And no, my purpose here isn't to list it, so I'm not going to. ) But, what I consider to be evidence isn't necessarily what someone else would consider evidence. To further complicate matters, evidence is interpretable. Meaning, people can look at the same evidence and derive entirely different conclusions from it. And in some cases, both interpretations could be valid and/or are often accepted as valid until further information comes to light. Witness: Newton's gravity vs. Einstein's gravity.

Quote: Originally posted by Lucia Carlota
Jesus offended a lot of people, especially the pharisees (the ones who thought they themselves had it all figured out, to the point where they could not recognize God as he stood in front of their very eyes). Jesus preached love, but it was clear he had enemies. God is goodness. He must bring evil to justice. Ultimately, if you reject God's will to defeat evil, you cannot be with him. The absence of God is hell.


Oh, absolutely. I'm reminded of the Michael Card song "Scandalon": He will be the truth that will offend them one and all/The stone that makes men stumble and the rock that makes them fall. Jesus's messages are offensive, indeed. Like, the one about no one being good and no one ever deserving or being able to earn salvation. That flies in the face of humanistic pride and is a difficult thing to accept. It certainly was for me.

In the end, Christianity has many faces, from the condemning and judgmental folks preaching hellfire and brimstone to the fuzzy-lovey bunnies who try to be everything to everyone, making Jesus palatable to all, softening and blunting His message so that more will come to salvation. Neither extreme has it exactly right, IMO; Jesus was not fuzzy, but neither did he use scare tactics like the modern fire and brimstone crowd. As a follower of Christ, this is the balance toward which I strive as well.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
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Forum Resident
#24 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 6:49 AM
Exactly, balance is the key. I've known some pretty awful "extremists" in the past and they a very bad example of Christianity and no doubt make some people think all Christians are like that. On the other hand I don't like the lovey-dovey types who attend certain churches around here...

Remember, being paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.
Banned
#25 Old 26th Sep 2009 at 7:57 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Lucia Carlota
The absence of God is hell.


Not to me, the absence of God is reality. I believe that no such God exists except in one's imagination.


Quote:
I believe the gospel accounts of Jesus' life are accurate. Four different men wrote similar biographies, all around 70 years after Jesus himself lived, meaning the writers had access to first-hand witnesses of Jesus' life. In contrast, Moses recorded some of the stories in Genesis hundreds to thousands of years after they took place.


You think they all are accurate? I suggest rereading them and notice how many different scenarios there are of just one major event in Jesus' life. Those that wrote about Jesus' life do not agree with each other. In particular reread about zombie jesus(the resurrection)
 
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