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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 4:37 AM
Default An Arabic-themed public school
Extra security for NYC Arabic school By COLLEEN LONG, Associated Press Writer
Wed Aug 29, 6:34 PM ET


An Arabic-themed public school will open next week with extra security after months of protest by some who say it will be a training ground for radical Islam.

Enrollment is nearly full at the 60-student Khalil Gibran International Academy, which will require its students to take Arabic as a foreign language, said Department of Education spokeswoman Melody Meyer on Wednesday.

Sixth-graders will be the first to attend the school, which will add a grade each year to end up with 500 to 600 students in grades 6-12. It joins a number of small public schools in the city that have themes, covering areas from the arts to social justice to Chinese language.

The school, named after a Christian Lebanese poet who promoted peace, is the first in the city to offer instruction in Arabic and on Arab culture.

"We need more Arabic speakers in this country, and that's part of the reason this school is being opened," Meyer said. Two of the five teachers hired at the school graduated from universities with federally funded programs aimed at boosting the number of schools in the U.S. teaching Arabic, she saidSince the school was announced in February, critics have attacked the school as a potential training ground for radicals. Because of protests, it has had to move to a new building and its principal resigned.

An organization called the Friends of Gibran Council, which claims its mission is to advance the philosophy of Gibran, also formed this year in part to prevent the school from "hijacking the name of this great artist," a spokesman said Wednesday.

It was originally going to take space in an elementary school in Brooklyn. Parents at the school objected for a number of reasons, including whether the ideological controversy would create a security risk.

The Department of Education moved the school to operate within a high school and middle school in Brooklyn.

Khalil Gibran's first principal, Debbie Almontaser, left earlier this month amid criticism for her affiliation with a group that had T-Shirts with the word "intifada," an Arabic term commonly used to refer to the Palestinian uprising against Israel. She was replaced by acting interim principal Danielle Salzberg, a Jewish woman who does not speak Arabic.

Meyer said there are no special plans for the first day of school, but education officials are taking into account the controversy and will provide extra security.


What are your thoughts about this? Good idea or bad idea? I think it's not a bad idea. In reality most Americans don't understand Arabic culture and it's time we did learn more about it.I'll wait to see how it turns out
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Theorist
#2 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 5:02 AM
I doubt the ACLU would allow it to become a training ground for radical Islam. In fact, if Islam is covered at all, shouldn't the ACLU get all up in arms over separation of church and state? Its a public school, right? As the article states, there are other culturally themed public schools as well, so, as long as they remain consistent and leave Islam out of it, as they have to leave Christianity out, then whats the problem? If however, they do incorporate Islam/Quran into the basic core curriculum of the school, a clear violation of the separation of church and state, then it becomes a problem. If the goal is only to teach more kids Arabic as a second language, I fail to see the harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Forum Resident
#3 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 8:09 AM
What a sad story. Is it a good/bad idea? Who cares. This is really about the incredible ignorance of people. As if learning about other cultures is enough to turn people into dangerous criminals. It's ignorance that makes people dangerous.

Just to add some Kahlil Gibran for fun...
http://leb.net/gibran/works/madman/madman18.html
Quote:
THE THREE ANTS

Three ants met on the nose of a man who was lying asleep in the sun. And after they had saluted one another, each according to the custom of his tribe, they stood there conversing.

The first and said, "These hills and plains are the most barren I have known. I have searched all day for a grain of some sort, and there is none to be found."

Said the second ant, "I too have found nothing, though I have visited every nook and glade. This is, I believe, what my people call the soft, moving land where nothing grows."

Then the third ant raised his head and said, "My friends, we are standing now on the nose of the Supreme Ant, the mighty and infinate Ant, whose body is so great that we cannot see it, whose shadow is so vast that we cannot trace it, whose voice is so loud that we cannot hear it; and He is omnipresent."

When the third ant spoke thus the other ants looked at each other and laughed.
At that moment the man moved and in his sleep raised his hand and scratched his nose, and the three ants were crushed.
#4 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 8:46 AM
I don't really see how it's a problem.. If you have a problem with the school then just go to a different one..
Scholar
#5 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 8:52 AM
Let's see.

1. They removed the first principle becasue she wore a shirt "intifada"? What now we can't support our brothers and sisters against the occupiers, but Jews can send money to help Israelis settle Arab lands and nothing happens to them?

2. They put a Jew as the head of an Arabic themed school... :einstein

3. Also Islam is closely tied with the Arabic language. Before Islam the people of Arabia spoke many different kinds of tongues after Islam we all spoke one language.

4. Islam has greatly shaped the way life goes on in the Middle East so it's kind of stupid not to teach it...
#6 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 2:31 PM
I don't understand, is the school for any person to go to or only arabic kids? I don't like all this division in society. If the US (and UK) are supposed to be 'multicultural', why do we need seperate schools to teach different races or religions? Why do we need a Chinatown and Little Italy etc.? It's just segregation, because people aren't willing to mix, and with that we get division which sparks off social tensions.

On the other hand, we have had Catholic schools here for ages. I attended a RC primary school where we had prayers, sang hymns and had a nun (or later on, a priest) who came in weekly. Catholic schools are usually seen as more successful on the whole than normal comprehensives, maybe because they are more strict and heavier on the morals.

It's not fair though. Why should it be a completely Arabic-specific school? Why can't kids go to seperate classes learning about not only Arabic but Chinese, European and African cultures? Are they not as important as Arabic? What are they trying to say, that we are victim to terrorism from islamic extremists because we don't know enough about Islam/are not Muslim/can't speak Arabic?
Scholar
#7 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:04 PM
Are you saying it's alright to have a Christian School, but not an Arabic one?

Also the school has an Arabic theme, doesn't mean non-Arabs can't attend.
#8 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Black_Barook!
Are you saying it's alright to have a Christian School, but not an Arabic one?

Also the school has an Arabic theme, doesn't mean non-Arabs can't attend.


Not at all, I'm just pointing out two sides to the argument. Plus Arabic is a culture and language whereas Christianity/Catholicism is a religion. I'm sure there are plenty of Muslim schools out there which are equally successful. In an ideal multicultural world, there wouldn't be either of the two, but normal comprehensives are sort of failing on the moral/religious aspect of schooling...

Anyway, it all boils down to seperation and not integration. Schools should focus on understanding all societies, not just one. What makes Arabic/Chinese/whatever more important than every other society?
#9 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Black_Barook!
Are you saying it's alright to have a Christian School, but not an Arabic one?

Also the school has an Arabic theme, doesn't mean non-Arabs can't attend.


The difference is, those Christian schools are private.
That being said, if this was a private school, and they taught Islam, that would be fine. However, if its public and they try and teach it.. Thats a no no. You have to have the same rules for everyone. Or else its favoritism.
Theorist
#10 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by nekochanpurr
The difference is, those Christian schools are private.
That being said, if this was a private school, and they taught Islam, that would be fine. However, if its public and they try and teach it.. Thats a no no. You have to have the same rules for everyone. Or else its favoritism.


yeah, thats kind of what I was trying to get across...its a public school, so no Islam should be allowed, in the same way no Christian doctrine would be taught. If the New York Public School system were to allow Islam to be taught in a public school, as opposed to a private school, not only would I expect the ACLU to step in, but for multiple parents to sue the school district. Private schools are a completely different matter, and the so called separation of church and state doesn't apply, as its not a state run educational facility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
#11 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Black_Barook!
4. Islam has greatly shaped the way life goes on in the Middle East so it's kind of stupid not to teach it...

Students should be taught ABOUT islam, not islam itself.

With islam hardly being the most peaceful religion, it should be taken on carefully.
Forum Resident
#12 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:52 PM
If there is a large Arbic community around, then whats so wrong with it? I do however feel it should be private if it is not, due to the fact that all public schools should remain equal and not divulge in ANY religions.

I'm an old simmer who just can't seem to quit...
Top Secret Researcher
#13 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 6:58 PM
Some catholic schools are public so why shouldn't this one be? There's nothing wrong with Islam - it's just some people take the scriptures too seriously and split hairs with it.
Forum Resident
#14 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:00 PM
? really? We dont' have public catholic schools here. But i personally dont' feel those should be public either.

I'm an old simmer who just can't seem to quit...
Instructor
#15 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:10 PM
I agree that if this school is going to teach anything religious, it should be a private school, not a public school. Any school teaching a specific religion in the states, as far as I know, is private.

In Oregon we have some Japanese and French schools, teaching the culture and language similar to what this Arabic school may be trying, and even those schools are private.
Theorist
#16 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Daltonism
Some catholic schools are public so why shouldn't this one be? There's nothing wrong with Islam - it's just some people take the scriptures too easily and split hairs with it.


Are they American public schools? I can't speak for the policies of other country's educational systems, but a Catholic public school would not be allowed in America, as it would fundamentally violate the established principles of the Separation of Church and State. Its either not an American school, private, or its not Catholic. It cannot be all three, based on American laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Top Secret Researcher
#17 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:23 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm always forgeting that the majority of you are American.
Here in England there are public Catholic schools.
Test Subject
#18 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:30 PM
Kahlil Gibran was a Lebanese American; in fact, the council honoring him has requested his name be disassociated with what apparently is a school for jihadists.

http://www.friendsofgibran.org/html...ss_release.html
#19 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:35 PM
There are catholics in England?
#20 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 7:56 PM
Yeah there are plenty of Catholics over here, myself included apparently Although I'm probably the biggest heretic out there...

I haven't heard of any Catholic schools that aren't private other than in primary schools. Certainly in my area, all the public schools are supposed to teach about religion but not encourage children to pray or get involved with religions, which would be recruiting the vulnerable and impressionable.
Top Secret Researcher
#21 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 8:54 PM
It's the same here in Essex. All schools are supposed to have education about the different religions, but they are not encouraged or forced to adhere to that religion. I remember when my high school had an Inspection, the only bad point was that while for Years 7 to 9 there was a great range of religions taught about, the GCSE course was only Christianity-based. The teacher got a lot of flack about that, and I don't blame them. I would have loved to have learnt about different religions, but the main teacher...

I think Religioun-based schools need to be private, but that public schools should teach about different religions in order to prevent confusion and prejudice through ignorance.

I would like to clear up the little matter of my sanity as it has come into question. I am not in any way, shape, or form, sane. Insane? Hell yes!

People keep calling me 'evil.' I must be doing something right.

SilentPsycho - The Official MTS2 Psycho
Mad Poster
#22 Old 30th Aug 2007 at 9:36 PM
I really don't see what the big problem is about this school. You'd think that with New York's cultural diversity people would be more open to other cultures and religions. I don't think anyone would be forced to attend this particular school if it does not suit their education needs. I attended myself a muslim school for 5 years and even though islamic studies and arabic language were compulsory subjects for muslims and arabs, students of other faith or background were not required to attend those classes, and had other courses instead like ethics and social studies or special english courses to better their english. I think this kind of school would help students of arab origin to have better knowledge of their culture which is a good thing. Normally I disagree with compulsory religion classes because I think it's something that should be dealt with at home in the family and not at school, but since mulsims usually have formal religious education anyway, I don't see the problem with it being taught in school to children of islamic faith if their parents agree to it.
Scholar
#23 Old 31st Aug 2007 at 12:07 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Loncaros
Students should be taught ABOUT Islam, not Islam itself.

With Islam hardly being the most peaceful religion, it should be taken on carefully.


That's what I meant, they should be taught about it.

But if I was a parent sending my kids to this school, then I would want them to learn Islam, I don't care about the non-Muslims just as long as my kids learn about their faith.
#24 Old 31st Aug 2007 at 12:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Black_Barook!
just as long as my kids learn about my faith.


Fixed.

They share your genetics, but they don't necessarily share your faith.
Mad Poster
#25 Old 31st Aug 2007 at 1:17 AM
Again, no US public school should be formally oriented toward a particular religion or culture. In Us religion is not taught in public schools as as such. Maybe cultural studies included under social studies or geography. But to open such a school is favoritism and is really illegal.
 
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