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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 1st Jul 2009 at 10:45 PM Last edited by Xunixeon : 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:20 AM. Reason: Changed
Default Religion Debate
As I explained that I'm Gnostic, not many people knew what that is and even those that think they knew said it was a Dan Brown Hoax or an ancient Pagan Cult that was in the time of Christianity.

As the result, I knew that Gnosticism is one of the many religions and non-religions persecuted by the Christian majority. Even Pagans would rather see the Gnostics burn than members of the pagan cults in the ancient times.

So I'll let you explain your ideas of what faith means to you and why people assume bad things about it. Then I'll let you argue your case why your religious is important

As I said, there are so many problems with Christianity that would be solved by freedom of all religions as well as respect for the most logical choices including Wicca, Satanism, Atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. I propose we can create the new religion but due to the Christian majority, they can be wrongly called cults. Basically, a religion is the state approved cult that can win the approval of the governments and made officially the religion by the courts and other law-abiding bodies of the government. Even when that is done, there is so many prejudice from the main religions of the country that don't care for the existence of the religion of itself and see its demise.

God, please protect me from your idiot followers for they have blinded themselves with bleach.

Money doesn't buy you happiness but it buys you beer and coffee.

Life is like Go. Its takes smart and amoral people to make decisions based on their strategies of living.
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Alchemist
#2 Old 1st Jul 2009 at 10:51 PM Last edited by SuicidiaParasidia : 2nd Jul 2009 at 12:12 AM.
to me, religion is between oneself and ones god.

when it becomes a community gathering, or a reason for a community gathering, it loses its meaning and becomes a cult.

which is...basically why i dont involve myself with formal religions.
im spiritual, but, i dont believe in the whole hell/heaven thing, not in the conventional sense. [ i agree with most of whats in What Dreams May Come, really. ]

but i think people assume bad things about a religion based on their experiences linked with those whom uphold that religion,or those religions.
like i dont know about you but ive been woken up several times at obscenely early hours by all sorts of religious peddlers hoping to sell their version of a god, or of a messiah, to me.
and im about as friendly as a badger when i dont wake up of my own volition.

i believe theres a positive message to religion, but i think it gets distorted when humans come into play and lump up, because we have a tendency to want to CONTROL each others thoughts and actions, and i think that gets in the way of the main course.

edit: also i would like to add that everyone has different concepts of right and wrong, good and evil, etc etc. who's to say one should be held higher than the other?
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#3 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 12:08 AM
Why does any religion, whether it be Christianity in one of its many forms, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism - none of which you've mentioned - as well as those you have, have to be 'more right'? I agree with SuicidiaParaidia in that religious belief, if indeed you are religious (for the record, I'm an atheist) is a choice between oneself and ones God.

Please call me Laura
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Scholar
#4 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 12:16 AM
Your topic title is Christianity vs other religions and beliefs: Which is worse?

The short answer is that Scientology is worse. Not that I consider that a religion. It's in my siggy. Go Anonymous!

And as SuicidiaParasidia said it's between one's self and their god. The problem I have with any religion is when people try to make it between them and everyone else, either through law making or suppression.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." ~Albert Einstein
A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.~F.D.R.
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Original Poster
#5 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:26 AM
I'm sorry I've gotten angry at davious. I think it's time to start discussing of what religious has to do with our lives and what the world will be like if there is either religious bigots controlling the whole world or if they are people who are more respectful of others' religion.

I don't claim to be a Scientologist. But I do know it's more of the cult than a religion since people are nothing more than brainwashed schizophrenics in that cult. Gnosticism was considered to be a religion instead of the cult. I think when I think of cult, I think of Satanic things happening like orgies, child abuse, suicide, mass suicide, and brainwashing.

God, please protect me from your idiot followers for they have blinded themselves with bleach.

Money doesn't buy you happiness but it buys you beer and coffee.

Life is like Go. Its takes smart and amoral people to make decisions based on their strategies of living.
Banned
#6 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:30 AM
Not to sound harsh or anything, if you believe brainwashing is cultish, then ALL RELIGIONS are cults.
Instructor
Original Poster
#7 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:33 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
Not to sound harsh or anything, if you believe brainwashing is cultish, then ALL RELIGIONS are cults.


Actually that has to do with very dangerous cults and groups not general preaching. We allow ourselves to listen to the words the preacher said or choose not to. With brainwashing, any sect, any cult that brainwash people through starvation and torture are worse than preacher teaching something.

I don't know what makes a religion a religion and a cult a cult.

God, please protect me from your idiot followers for they have blinded themselves with bleach.

Money doesn't buy you happiness but it buys you beer and coffee.

Life is like Go. Its takes smart and amoral people to make decisions based on their strategies of living.
Instructor
Original Poster
#8 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:46 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Extensa5420
Faith means to believe and trust in someone or something. People assume bad things about it, because they either do not know about it, or they do not like the rules in the religion. I do not really have a religion, because I do not worship anyone or anything. I do not think about gods at all. I do not care if they exist. I do not care if they don't exist. Religion is not very important to me, because I am not a Theology major. I know quite a few knowledge about Christianity, though, from pop culture (including books that I read).


But blind faith is what gets you into trouble. That is why there is faith in knowledge of God (or Gnosis, being, "knowledge")

God, please protect me from your idiot followers for they have blinded themselves with bleach.

Money doesn't buy you happiness but it buys you beer and coffee.

Life is like Go. Its takes smart and amoral people to make decisions based on their strategies of living.
Alchemist
#9 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Xunixeon
Actually that has to do with very dangerous cults and groups not general preaching. We allow ourselves to listen to the words the preacher said or choose not to. With brainwashing, any sect, any cult that brainwash people through starvation and torture are worse than preacher teaching something.

I don't know what makes a religion a religion and a cult a cult.


i beg to differ. brainwashing is brainwashing, and its not discriminatory by subject. you could technically brainwash someone to like bunnies and kitties and fluffy pillows. its still brainwashing.
its true though that you can only be brain washed if you have a highly influence-able mind, but who isnt guilty of that in some point of their lives?
a lot of religious people, ive noticed, begin teaching their children about their religion very early on, and children of that age do not have the knowledge, wisdom, or experience to make their own choices. so wouldnt you say that is brainwashing?
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Original Poster
#10 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:55 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasidia
i beg to differ. brainwashing is brainwashing, and its not discriminatory by subject. you could technically brainwash someone to like bunnies and kitties and fluffy pillows. its still brainwashing.
its true though that you can only be brain washed if you have a highly influence-able mind, but who isnt guilty of that in some point of their lives?
a lot of religious people, ive noticed, begin teaching their children about their religion very early on, and children of that age do not have the knowledge, wisdom, or experience to make their own choices. so wouldnt you say that is brainwashing?


I would but not if they wake up from the slumber and believe in their own religion. It takes a very strong person to avoid brainwashing.

God, please protect me from your idiot followers for they have blinded themselves with bleach.

Money doesn't buy you happiness but it buys you beer and coffee.

Life is like Go. Its takes smart and amoral people to make decisions based on their strategies of living.
Alchemist
#11 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 1:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Xunixeon
I would but not if they wake up from the slumber and believe in their own religion. It takes a very strong person to avoid brainwashing.


but you see, plenty of children are not given that opportunity. if theyre taught from the moment they enter the world that religion is the only way for them, they will grow up believing it, and defending it fervently, while the choice wasnt actually theirs that they made. ... kind of confusing the way i put it, but i hope you can decipher what i mean xD...

now i wouldnt say its brainwashing if they were allowed to grow up at a neutral point of view, then decide from a reasonable point in their lives if they wanted religion or not, but thats sadly not the case in many scenarios.

anyway. kind of slipped off track there. sorry.
Banned
#13 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 4:40 AM
One can't know God since God is an imaginary sky faerie with no proof of it's existence or inexistence.

Quote:
Another thing you don't do is put God to the test or a person who follows God to the test either to do miracles.


Of course you can't because if a true miracle were to happen that would be proof for the existence of a God. If there are any Gods out there, why not make it known they are there and watching? Also, if there were a God like the God depicted in the bible, then that God should be performing miracles left and right as that God wants attention and people to follow it, it's not about us getting eternal life, it's about that God's own greedy ambition and need to control everything.
Field Researcher
#15 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 4:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
One can't know God since God is an imaginary sky faerie with no proof of it's existence or inexistence.


No point in being rude, that get's you nowhere. Besides, as you stated, there is no proof of his nonexistence so that argument will only go in circles.
Quote:
... it's about that God's own greedy ambition and need to control everything.

No way to prove that either. If there really is an almighty God or Gods then, theoretically, their motives go far beyond what we humans would be able to comprehend.
Theorist
#16 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:02 AM
I'm Baptist and I'm starting to question whether any such 'God' does exists. The only 'proof' we have is a Bible, which is basically a book. Anyone can write a book and they can put whatever they like on its pages.

~~~The Official Nintendork Island~~~
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Banned
#18 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BR_FL
No way to prove that either. If there really is an almighty God or Gods then, theoretically, their motives go far beyond what we humans would be able to comprehend.


No there isn't a way to prove what you quoted, but I was referring to how God is depicted in the bible. For much of the OT, he's hell bent on domination and death, the NT well he's virtually non-existant since much of the NT is about Jesus.
Field Researcher
#19 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:39 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
...well he's virtually non-existant since much of the NT is about Jesus.


Well, Jesus is God if you want to talk about the New Testament. So God is very much existent within the NT.
Banned
#20 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:44 AM
No Jesus isn't God, Jesus didn't father himself, God supposedly did. Jesus is a separate entity not the same.
Alchemist
#21 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:49 AM
i forgot to mention earlier, that my main qualm with religion [ specifically western religions ], is the bible itself.
i dont believe that book would be entirely written by a MAN [ who, lets face it...desires to control something about his life, even others ] could be without twists or lies. i just cant.

and why a book?
if they wanted to, couldnt they have just let us be born with the knowledge of ages past, that there is a god? or why didnt they use other means? a book looks rather petty an expression of ones " word ", IMO.

also, why would they give us free will if they expected us to follow them? if they thought that following them would be the only path to ' salvation ', and that anyone who didnt would burn or suffer? if they really cared so much, if all that were true, wouldnt they have created us differently, to " save " us?
its things like that, that keep me from picking up a bible to read its nonsensical pages.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Forum Resident
#22 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:53 AM
A book:

At that time it was the latest in technology available.
Alchemist
#23 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:54 AM
so youre saying god needs a book [ or technology ] to communicate with people?

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Banned
#24 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 5:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasidia
i forgot to mention earlier, that my main qualm with religion [ specifically western religions ], is the bible itself.
i dont believe that book would be entirely written by a MAN [ who, lets face it...desires to control something about his life, even others ] could be without twists or lies. i just cant.


There's also the bit about much of the bible was taken from older religions. For example, the birth of Jesus was very much almost exactly alike the birth of a sun god, much like the death of Jesus was like a sun god(dying then rising again 3 days later).
Field Researcher
#25 Old 2nd Jul 2009 at 6:12 AM
Safyre, Jesus is God and he is the Son of the Father, who is the same God. Although my perspective may differ from other denominations of Christianity due to my Catholic views. Saying Jesus is a separate entity defies the fact that Christianity is even Monotheistic.
 
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