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View Poll Results: Should America adopt a free for all health plan funded by taxes?
Yes.
40 60.61%
No.
21 31.82%
I don't care.
4 6.06%
I haven't thought about it.
1 1.52%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 12:00 PM
Default National health
A question about health in America

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
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Theorist
#2 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 12:17 PM
I think that there should be a form of National Health System like we have over here - It might take a while to set up, but for the basic things like Colds, Cuts, etc. As well as some things like Pregnancy and such, should be free. Does not being able to pay for the *Childbirth* mean that they shouldn't have the right to have a child?
.....................................not really.


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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#3 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 1:23 PM Last edited by Neil__ : 7th Aug 2009 at 1:36 PM.
My opinion of insurance only health.
If you dont have enough money to pay us to save your life then just die.
Just don't do it here.
Corpses are expencive to deal with, lots of paperwork and that costs money.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#4 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 1:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
My opinion of insurance only health.
If you dont have enough money to pay us to save your life then just die.
Just don't do it here.
Corpses are expencive to deal with, lots of paperwork and that costs money.


Oh my.


Have you ever heard of Ebenezer Scrooge?


BodyShopped /// ShoofleedSims
♦ // Jack.exe // ♦
/
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#5 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 1:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Petchy
Oh my.


Have you ever heard of Ebenezer Scrooge?


I'm not denying people health.

I've seen all the republican propaganda against health care for all and it states that there aren’t any choices,
You can go private here and in Canada, it's your choice, if you want to pay for private treatment, nobodies stopping you.
BUPA

The one thing that a national health service will give America is humanity.
No longer will you get people dying for lack of adequate health insurance.

Do you Americans really put their life in the hands of the same insurance companies that screw you out of a proportion of the expence it costs to repair your car when tyou have an accident?

An insurance company is the last organization I'd trust to pay for the repairs on my car, but I have no choice. we are obliged to have car assurance.
We are not forced to drive.

Everyone gets ill, doesn't everyone deserve health.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#6 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 1:44 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
The one thing that a national health service will give America is humanity.
No longer will you get people dying for lack of adequate health insurance.

Do you really trust your health to the same insurance companies that screw you out of what your car costs to repair when you have an accident?


I think you better read up on socialized health care a little more...especially European models, where people die all the time because they have to wait six months for a procedure that they could have gotten in America currently in 3 weeks. The waiting periods in socialized health care programs cause people to die, because of lack of timely care. Ask Canadians why when they need major surgery, they head here, to America, instead of trusting their "beloved" socialized health care".

Further, do you really trust your health to the same government that screw you out of your tax money? Can you trust them to get health care right, when they have messed up everything else they have been in control of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#7 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 1:51 PM Last edited by Neil__ : 7th Aug 2009 at 2:21 PM.
I don't need to read up.
My mother died last year. she had amazing treatment,
I wont argue the toss as to how quickly she was treated, you wouldnt believe me and it isnt any of your business anyway.
So I conclude that you are either deluded or a liar.

Have you been listening to Fox News, I think you have, I can see it a mile away.
Try getting some facts before you come out with propoganda.

Quote: Originally posted by davious
Further, do you really trust your health to the same government that screw you out of your tax money? Can you trust them to get health care right, when they have messed up everything else they have been in control of?


TBH I'd trust some used car salesman more than an insurance company

I've worked for two, they'ld dig the gold teeth out of a dying pentioner rather than pay a claim.

Do you want people who get bonuses for finding loopholes in insurance claims deciding whether your life gets saved?

YES.
NO,

No reply, I'll ask another,
If anybody here thinks an anonamous insurance adjuster would give a damn about their fate over a $1,000 bonus, raise their hand.

Do you really think mr. "in the race to be promoted" will easily sign off on a huge payout for Insurance Corp and lose his office to somebody else?

Insurance companies only makes money if they don'tpay.

Do you really want Mr can't pay, won't pay deciding on your health?

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#8 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 2:25 PM
I trust insurance companies more than I trust the organization that has completely mismanaged education, social security, home mortgages, taxes, etc. Can you name a single program (all I am asking for is one) that the US government has administered that has been both effective to what it was trying to do, and cost efficient at the same time? A single program where government red tape has made things simpler?

YES
NO

No reply? Since you are keen on asking questions and then in the same post pretend that I was ignoring the question, I will do the same...

What makes you think an anonymous government agent gives a damn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#9 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 2:28 PM Last edited by jhd1189 : 7th Aug 2009 at 4:55 PM. Reason: Merged posts: 2776113, 2776115, 2776118
Who said it was run by anonomous gobernment agents?
Fox news.

typo government.

Some questions are too hard to answer. sorry for multiple posts but I have been denied the right to edit.

Fifth amendment my bum.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#10 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 2:37 PM
For individuals who have no healthcare, and cannot get healthcare, I think it's a great idea. As a replacement for private healthcare plans, I don't think it'd work well, but as a supplement for those that aren't poor enough for medicaid but don't work at a job that provides healthcare, I think it's a great idea. It's absolutely shameful that people can work 40+ hour weeks at decent, liveable-wage jobs and still not be able to go to the doctor when they need to. It may not be a -perfect- healthcare system, but for people to be able to go to the doctor when they need to, when they otherwise wouldn't, I think it's better than nothing.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Lab Assistant
#11 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 2:42 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neil__
My opinion of insurance only health.
If you dont have enough money to pay us to save your life then just die.
Just don't do it here.
Corpses are expencive to deal with, lots of paperwork and that costs money.

Isn't that a bit...evil?
What about all the poor people?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#12 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 2:47 PM Last edited by Neil__ : 7th Aug 2009 at 3:00 PM.
I might be wrong but the poor can get aid through medicare, it's the uninsured 50 million that will be left to die.
Please dont try and say that uninsured Americans dont die for lack of health coverage because their insurance companies refused to pay.

Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
For individuals who have no healthcare, and cannot get healthcare, I think it's a great idea. As a replacement for private healthcare plans, I don't think it'd work well, but as a supplement for those that aren't poor enough for medicaid but don't work at a job that provides healthcare, I think it's a great idea. It's absolutely shameful that people can work 40+ hour weeks at decent, liveable-wage jobs and still not be able to go to the doctor when they need to. It may not be a -perfect- healthcare system, but for people to be able to go to the doctor when they need to, when they otherwise wouldn't, I think it's better than nothing.


The one thing you don't realize , it works really well here and in Canada,
Nothing is perfect but a health care system run by health care people, funded by taxes has to be better than a health care system run by and paid for by insurance companies

The one thing I don't understand is that the people against this are either the rich or the uninformed.
I dont understand what is so wrong with wanting a universal health care system that everyone can use.

Do the people against this really not care about the people dying for lack of insurance, is life worth so little?

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#13 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 3:01 PM
The uninsured 50 million is a complete myth, Neil. You want fact? The censur bureau says that it is really about 36 million. Obama's inflated figure includes 10 million illegal immigrants, who should not, under any circumstances, get rewarded for breaking the law by coming into this country illegally. It also includes the wealthy, about 9 million of them, who choose not to purchase health insurance. It also includes another 9 million who, while not wealthy, also choose not to have it. 18 million don't have it by choice, not because they can't. So, we are down now to 18 million or so, less than HALF of what Obama claims. Nor does it exclude people who only temporarily didn't have insurance, such as those transitioning from one job to another. Sorry, but the grossly inflated uninsured numbers have been used to distort reality, to pursue Obama's agenda. But, go ahead, be a sheep, and believe that 50 million number he tells you it is without doing any research...

I am curious, you say it works really well "here and in Canada". Where exactly is here? Are you a non-American trying to butt into an American political issue, without actually knowing what it is actually about, perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 3:10 PM
Lets say it's only 5 million, I apologise, I thought it was a large number.
Only 5 million potentially left to die for the want of a doctor. your conscience is clear.

Everyone has the right to be cured of illness, or don't you believe that?

Quote: Originally posted by davious
I am curious, you say it works really well "here and in Canada". Where exactly is here? Are you a non-American trying to butt into an American political issue, without actually knowing what it is actually about, perhaps?

I have every right to criticise America's lack of health care, America sees fit to butt into our issues an a daily basis. I live in Britain BTW.
But it's irrelevant where I live; an issue isn’t invalid just because the person bringing it up lives abroad.
Please don’t preach that people from another country have no business asking questions about your internal systems that would be so hypocritical.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Lab Assistant
#15 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 3:15 PM
I'm fully behind an NHS, but America needs to try and make sure that if they were to get an NHS they don't ruin it like we did in the UK.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 3:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Splurgy
I'm fully behind an NHS, but America needs to try and make sure that if they were to get an NHS they don't ruin it like we did in the UK.

This is the big question, will the government be given the freedom to learn by our mistakes and provide a world class healthcare system that America and the world can be proud of. or will they be hamstrung by the republicans and their "bribes”. I mean electoral contributions from the health and insurance companies

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#17 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 3:37 PM
America already has the best health care in the world. That is why all of your leaders come here when they need major surgeries done, because we have the best doctors, the best medical schools, the best medical technology. If your health care was so top notch, they wouldn't be coming to America.

Further, show me in the US constitution where it mandates health care as a necessary government function?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#18 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 4:01 PM Last edited by Neil__ : 7th Aug 2009 at 4:15 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by davious
America already has the best health care in the world. That is why all of your leaders come here when they need major surgeries done, because we have the best doctors, the best medical schools, the best medical technology. If your health care was so top notch, they wouldn't be coming to America.

Further, show me in the US constitution where it mandates health care as a necessary government function?


But what if you aren't a world leader, what if you're Joe Plumber.
BTW some of the best healthcare on the planet is provided at huge cost in Europe, Russia, India even China.
Just because the rich can afford world class healthcare isn't a reason to derny it from others.

I guess from your attitude that you or your family is really wealthy.

OMG health as a government function mentioned in the constitution,
Are you seriously that callous?
The constitution doesn't mention the right to breath air, that means it would be ok in your books if a doctor refused to revive you’re child from drowning. "It doesn't say in the constitution that he has the right to air, let him die.


Look Davious, there are no real arguments against universal free healthcare.
I don’t know why you are trying to find some.
All you are doing is making yourself look spiteful and unfeeling. Not to mention a little foolish.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" Richard Dawkins.
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em
I can't prove you aren’t, at this minute, wearing a pink tutu, By all theistic logic, I must infer that you probably are.
Theorist
#19 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 4:33 PM
Actually, I am not wealthy, I make less than 30 thousand dollars a year, and actually don't have any health care right now. By choice. I just don't feel it is the government's business. Democrats were all up in a tizzy when the Patriot Act potentially allowed the government to know who is calling who...and yet you want the government to know all of your medical history? HELL NO. It isn't their damn business.

I brought up the Constitution because it dictates what the Government's role is to be. You are obviously not educated in how American government works, otherwise you would know this. If the Constitution does not give the US government the power to do something, they shouldn't be doing it. Healthcare is something that should be left as an individual freedom, not a government mandate. And, your example is ridiculous, unless the government would be funding that breathing, like it would be health care. Seriously, you sound like a teenager with some of your reasoning.

Here is an argument against "universal free health care". It isn't free. The costs simply come right back to the citizen as an increase in taxes. You sound like a complete ignoramus when you call it free, because it isn't free. Where do you think the money comes from to fund it? It may not cost me at the doctor's office, but it sure as hell is going to cost me every April 15th, when I pay my taxes. Whether the doctor takes it out of my wallet, or the government takes it out of my wallet, it still gets taken out of my wallet. I still pay for it. That is not free, by ANY definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
Inventor
#20 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 4:57 PM Last edited by urisStar : 7th Aug 2009 at 5:15 PM.
http://allcountries.org/health/usa_...e_2008_nyt.html

How do you reconsided the research/fact that America's rating is 37, two slot ahead of Cuba, and still scream and yell, America is number #1 when it comes to health care?

Maybe those rich crusty old white men are up to their old dirty tricks again!
Lab Assistant
#21 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 6:44 PM
Ask yourselves if we have a government run healthcare plan what happens if there is an emergency shortage? One of the people currently advising Obama on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, and he is Rahm Emanuel's brother. He has come up with a cost saving health care method.

“When implemented, the Complete Lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated… The Complete Lives system justifies preference to younger people because of priority to the worst-off rather than instrumental value.” Another words we would have a lifeboat situation. Who deserves the medical treatment most.
Inventor
#22 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 7:03 PM
Hmm, I wonder if France and the other 36 country that are delivering better health care than this country has those kind of issues? Seems to me that this country is confused and seems to want to bite off it's nose to spite it's face.

I really don't think all this made up fear is about health care unless we are putting the insurance companies ahead of proper coverage for those with and without health care.

It is a tradition of this country fight even when it is not necessary or called for so I am not surprised just disappointed that we have not advanced more. The land of the free and the brave is a fairytale!
Lab Assistant
#23 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 7:29 PM
You might want to look at page 59 of this Health Reform Bill.

Pg 59: SEC. 163.ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATIONHC Bill lines 21-24 "Enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconcilliation with the related healthcare payment and remittance advice"

Simply stated Government will have DIRECT access to your BANK ACCOUNTS for electronic funds transfer. This means the government can go in and take your money right out of your bank account


This kind of government intervention doesn't make me happy or comfortable. I dont want to just hand the government my life, and say do what you want. I dont want to give up my freedoms. Americans live in a free society, and we would like to keep our freedom, privacy, and control.
Inventor
#24 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 7:42 PM
Oh please, the way I see people acting now, many of them won't have a bank account for anyone to access and you are going to end up on the mercy of the government anyway. I am seeing elders protesting a health care bill that is not even a bill yet and they are on government run medicare, how dumb can one be?

At least in Cuba that rank 39, with the US ranking 37, they must be more relieved in knowing their health care delivery system is not that much worst than the US.
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 7th Aug 2009 at 9:49 PM
Oh so I should just lay down, and give them control since inevitably I will eventually be at their mercy anyway(lol). They can take my life, but they will never take my FREEDOM! Braveheart "Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry

I wonder how many Americans actually voted in this poll? Iam guessing those of other countries might want us to have the same sucky government run healthcare that they have. They may want to see us capitalist pigs weakened and controlled. Hmm.... just something to ponder on. Maybe/ Maybe not
 
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