I found this in my opinion section of our local paper this morning: gave a great laugh.....


-Tax cut recieved by the McCains from Bush: $313,413 (Center for American Progress). Tax cut recieved by the McCains under the proposed McCain/Palin plan: all that plus another $367,788. Estimated cost of the dress and accessories worn by Cindy McCain when encouraging americans to pray for Hurrican Gustav: $313,413 (vanity fair). Priceless?

But wouldn't you be out in the streets? I would think that being below poverty line meant that you cannot even afford to live anywhere, have a car or even have a job because of no place to stay (unless you are at your parents' like I am). Not even internet would be affordable unless you go to a library. So what exactly do you mean by being below poverty line? I'm not trying to be nosy so I apologize if it came off that way. I was just confused.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/08poverty.shtml
2008 HHS Poverty Guidelilines
Poverty chart

Another letter I came across this morning and I felt it said alot about community leaders and so forth.....I am not good at getting my point across much but I felt I could identify with what this woman said so I am putting it here for you to read and understand why Palin is ticking off alot of people....seems every day more and more is coming out about her....anyway, make of it what you will..like I said its a letter in my opinion section of our local paper, I personally didn't write it but agree.


Palin's mocking of Obama's service as a community organizer demeans the office of senator and also mocks our democracy. Obama's community service led to his becoming a state and U.S.senator just as Reagon's first job as an actor led to his presidency. One reason our country is great is because of community organizers, actors and hockey moms all have a shot at the top. Palin's statement was all hypocritical as it mocked persons needing community services. Despite Republican mantras of small government and personal responsibility, Palin knowingly gave birth to a child with Down's Syndrome and stated that if elected she wouldbe an advocate in Washington for families who had children with special needs. Thus Palin is well aware that special needs children and their families require a myriad of government services. I assume that for the sake of her child, Palin too will take advantage of these services. Over time, almost all Americans use some governenment service-unemployment insurance, social security benefits, farm subsidies, Medicare, and food stamps, head start, tuiton assistance programs, FHA mortgage loans, etc....even McCain recieves social security benefits. Republicans also claim there is too much government intrusion into our personal lives, yet McCain and Palin would give more rights to a fertilized egg than to a woman. Palin made her choice to have a baby with Down's syndrome as a married woman with a good job, health care and a loving family. Not all women who find themselves with a problem pregnancy are so fortunate. Anyone who truely believes in personal responsibility and that government should stay out of our persoanl lives should not vote for the McCain/Palin ticket. They talk big but when one looks under the rhetoric, there is only hypocrisy.

sorry so long,,,but I felt it was a good, down to earth letter.....any spelling mistakes are my fault....

Frankie, below the poverty line is simply a referral to whether or not you make above a certain level or not. For a single person, that is any amount less than $10,400 in the continental US, as BigBadBrat's link demonstrates. Currently, I do not make that much yearly, so I am, according to the US Dept of Health and Humane Services, below the poverty level.

BBB, can I ask why socialisim is such a bad thing? Its still democracy, but just one that takes care of its children. Its no coincidence that countries that are pretty much all socialist (such as the Scandanavian countries) have the best measurable quality of life. Even countries that wouldn't be considered socialist (such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Britian) have a better quality of life. We have private health insurance over here, but what I pay for is considerably less than my American counterparts. I also don't need to pay for a doctor most of the time (my personal doctor dosen't 'bulk bill' (which means you pay nothing) but that's a choice I have made, because I can afford it. When I'm broke, I have another doctors I go to, where I pay nothing) if I have an emergancy, I will get care. That dosen't happen in America and that is tragic.

Lauren the healthcare crisis in this country is amazing.........I know alot of people overseas who are always asking how can you even have children in the united states with how much it costs? we have the best doctors and medical facilities and the worst healthcare..............right now I am having to cancel my helath insurance and just get a state child insurance for my girls...my hubby and I don't have insurance and he is self employed, pretty scary.

sorry mods, slightly off-topic

This proves how ignorant people are about American health care...you don't see the contradiction in claiming that we have the best doctors and the best facilities, and yet our insurance system is so horrible? Quick question...WHY does America have the best doctors and best medical facilities? Simple answer...because its not government run. The medical field in America, just like other industries, is allowed to innovate, because they are allowed to profit and spend money on research. There is reason that doctors from other countries come to America to learn, because we are the best at it. The reason we are the best at it, is because our system allows us to be. If we were to socialize the system, gone would be the incentive to innovate.

Not to point out the obvious either, but after glorifying the health care system in Cuba in his propaganda film "Sicko", where do you think Michael Moore is going to go if he gets sick? He gonna fly to Cuba, or is he going to go to a hospital here in the United States, with the best doctors on the planet?

The reason I find it distasteful is because it is government control. Socialism controls capital,production,distribution. It keeps people from being able to excel by redistributing wealth from those who worked hard for it to the people who didn't earn it. Thus controlling the money. It allows you to have the same health care as everyone else controlling the health care that everyone gets. Socialism even controls the doctor you get to see. If we allow the government to start controlling every aspect of our lives thus becoming a socialistic country where will that control end. You want a government that cant even balance their own budget,That has no integrity,that taxes people to death, and fights bitterly among themselves accomplishing nothing in the end to have that kind of control. No thanks,Lauren,I'll pass.

Davious I don't see a contadiction actually, thats what is messed up..I'm not saying it should be like other countries but why is it so difficult in our country? and I'm curious why is it okay for government control over abortions then? what if McCain tries to overturn roe v wade? which he has said he was going to do then changed his mind...thats government control right? I just want to see the healthcare system changed, made so everyone has a chance to get coverage...and children...why do you think so many children don't get immunizations? are their parents lazy? no...I think its because no one can afford it....one set of shots for my baby run about 600.00 per visit. In the state of Montana where I live its a state law that all children under the age of 2 have to have their wellchecks paid for by their insurance company if they indeed have it...and yes there are a few state run facilities that do offer discounts I think...I just feel something can be done, there has to be a solution..I don't know what it is....I know this is supposed to be about Palin but ultimately people will think about this stuff when they vote in November...and the economy....thats the biggest factor right now.

Jenny,The difference is that abortion is murder. It's killing an unborn child. It should be illegal. While I definately agree that the insurance system should be reformed we dont need national socialistic healthcare. Insurance premiums should go down and their should be coverage regardless of age,preexisting illness or whatever. Just my opinion.

If abortion should be illegal then miscarriages must also be illegal as miscarriages are the body's own way of abortion, thus the body commits murder without that person's consent.

What makes no sense to me is that we are so worried about killing the wildlife and carribou yet we are aborting and killing unborn babies without even a second thought. We will scream and fight to save the life of an endangered animal species then turn around and kill a baby that is still in the mother's womb. That is some really messed up thinking. This is my last comment on this subject as we are getting completely off topic.

Davious and BBB, thank you for the explanation of the poverty level system. I never knew about this. I am definitely below that but my parents are middle class and together alone make more than the highest amount you see in that chart but I live with them so I am not sure if that counts me as middle-class like them or am I still "impoverished"? lol

Do you think that countries with socialised medicine don't have these same issues? I know Australia has the exact same conditions.

What's the point of having the best doctors if the people in the country can't afford to use them?



So you want a govt that dosen't control your bodies, dosen't rescue business from failure and has a balanced budget. Yet you're going to vote Republican, who are doing ALL these things?

My country dosen't control my body. I have the right to make any choice in regards to my body. Republicans want to take that right away from American women.

Republicans are stepping in and rescuing big business from failure. I personally think that's brillant, but that IS govt control.

How much is American in debt? Yet you want to vote in a man who has agreed with 90% of the things that have happened in the last eight years?



I can't speak for the Scandanivan countries, but in a country that has socialised medicine that is blatantly NOT true. I pick who I want to see. By paying money, it actully reduces choice. If no doctor charges, you do get to choose.



So why do you want the Republicans in again? You've seriously JUST described the past eight years of American history.



I'm anti-abortion, yet pro-choice. My friend had one today and I can barely look her in the eye I'm that upset (her situation makes me upset more than the actual abortion) Yet I still think she has the right to have one. The mother has the choice in that and while I personally consider it murder (due to my own morals) the simple fact is, while its affecting another women's body, it is not a seperate entity and should not be treated as such. Just because its my morals, dosen't mean I should enforce them on others.

besides, until Republicans are willing to actully CARE for the child they are making people have, they should but the hell out.

We believe our own hype, and we repeat anything that sounds good or help us to puff out our chest in false glory of this country. It is not like we don’t have the Internet to check out claims made about this country, and when do we acknowledge that we are not all that anymore? The percentage of Americans that can access that wonderful health care that you are bragging about are not that high, and yet and still, you are claiming income below the poverty line; which makes one question your credibility. How are you able to have access to all this wonderful health care when there are Americans making twice/three times your income that can‘t?

I need to be selling tickets to your world!

When did I claim I had full coverage? When did I claim that I actually was currently covered by health care? I never did make that claim, you are making a false assumption, as usual. That doesn't stop me from recognizing that our health care system is far better than other countries. No, it does not cover everyone all the time...but here is a secret. Neither do their socialized health care programs. They get a certain medical budget, and if they run out of money before the end of their fiscal year, patients have to wait. And wait. And wait some more. Further, their doctors spend all their time diagnosing insignificant colds, because people in those countries have no problem wasting time going to the doctor, because it doesn't cost them. Instead of diagnosing real problems, they are inundated with stuff that is seriously not important enough to go to the doctor for. That is what happens when its "free" (despite the incredible increase in taxes required to fund it). People take advantage of free things, and abuse their ability to go to the doctor whenever they want, preventing the doctors from getting to patients that really need a doctor. You will see doctor shortages and longer waiting times as a result.

Socialized healthcare means your taxes will skyrocket, doctor's offices will be filled with people abusing the system just because they can, takes money from those who don't need it to pay for your doctors visits, and interferes with privacy. If my money goes to fund a socialized health care system, if my tax dollars go to fund abortion clinics, that is a violation of my First Amendment right to freely express my religion, doesn't it? It means my money will go directly to things that are against my faith. Finally, given the "high quality" job the government has managed to do with our school systems, are you really sure you trust them with your health? Do you really want the government bureaucracy to get between you and your doctor? You really want to trust politicians with your health?

But, its an interesting topic, even if its ultimately a waste of time. Regardless of who becomes President, you won't see socialized health care in America. As much as Barack Obama likes to talk about it, it won't happen.

Applauds Davious for this post.
What I see happening is Barack Obama digging himself into a deep hole. The more he talks the more he reveals his true heart. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" These words written by the best selling book of all times is nothing but the truth. Meaning that what is truly in your heart will eventually come out of your mouth and be revealed.
His wife has made this comment revealing where they stand on America
"for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country — and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change." In all her life she says she has never been proud of America till now. I guarantee his plan is to change this country alright,but you may not like the change that would be a comin. He will change this country to socialism. He wants to change this country alright. Americans we need to stand up and fight against this. Obama is very deceptive. One has to question whether the comments of his pastor reveal his heart of anti American slop and prejudice as well. These are completely different from the crap the media is trying to dig up on Sarah Palin and her church. She nor they are anti American or prejudice in the things they say. There has been nothing said even close to the anti American,prejudice crap Rev. Wright has said. You may not like the beliefs of her church,but it is not vile, full of hatred and racism like Rev.Wrights sermons. The two cant even compare. So you left wing liberal media zelots stop attacking and digging.
Next there's the comment about people from small town America clinging to their guns and religion. Is this what you think Obama?
Now we have the pig and lipstick comment. Frankly people this guy worries me.

You are so righteous, Obama’s skin color alone must be really scary to you as it seems to bring out the worse in you. As much as I want to go there with you, I must hold myself back as you are not worthy.

Take a breath and know that your concerns are not new, it is like the egg and the chicken question, which came first, the chicken or the egg? I will say only this: Mr. Wright, Obama and his wife may not say things the way you and others like you may want, but I guarantee there is no record of violence towards others (your skin color) in their back ground/history. No strange fruit hanging on trees and all the ugliness that is the history of this country.

There is a need for Mr. Wright because there are people like you, as it is only the promotion of a balance approach to what is the culture of America. All that you are projecting on Obama are all feelings you have towards yourself, get help, call Dr. Phil!:einstein

Oh look...there goes the race card again...

When you are holding the full deck of cards and they have been in your corner forever, what is one card? Just, push your chest out and repeat after me, "They got it from us", "We invented the race card along with all the other cards, how dare they turn it back on us!:egg

By the way, a pig with lipstick is still a pig!

I have decided to argue minute points. Ahem.

Things just don't work that way. If I don't particularly want new roads paved in my state, should federally-funded (that is, funded through taxes) road upkeep be abolished? Or what if I don't believe in the death penalty? My tax money still pays for that.

Come on. Is declaring that gays need to be "converted" and saved from homosexuality really not displaying prejudice? Comparison to Wright is pointless. I don't excuse some of the things he said, but you cannot paint Sarah Palin's church as free of hate.

I live in a small, southern town, and that totally sums up, in my opinion anyway, many of the attitudes around here. Tactful? No, but the description is accurate.

That's plain ignorance on the matter. There would be no 'incredible increase in taxes' Other countries who have socialised medicine don't pay more taxes than America.

Here's an idea, instead of paying $10 billion dollars a month on war, why not divert that to socialised medicine? Won't be paying any extra taxes as you're already paying for it, everyone wins!



No, its not. If that were true, you wouldn't pay ANY taxes. You have the right not to have abortions yourself. Not to stop others having them (as perhaps, having an abortion is in their religious beliefs?)



You've posted her exact words, yet managed to distort them?

Here's a clue, I'm never been proud of my own country in my adult lifetime. Yet I'm working to try and change it. As I said before pride dosen't mean you don't love your country. It means that you're adult enough not to love it unconditionally.



Except for her having links to a group that wants to secede from the United States. No anti-Americanisim there!

You can't attack one person for their faith and then cry foul if others (which he has refused to do) attack one of your own for the same valid reasons. Oh wait, its Republicans of COURSE they can. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds!



You seriously are buying into that crap? It is an old collequilism that MANY, MANY politicans use. (including McCain refering to Hillary Clinton this year!) If someone were to be silly enough to take that comment literally (and I honestly laugh at anyone who does. Its clearly a metaphor) Palin is the lipstick, McCain is the pig. The ONLY people comparing Palin to an animal are 1.herself and 2. the people who heard the word pig and went "He MUST be talking about Palin!"



Oh look, pot meet kettle! I disgaree with everything davious and BBB are saying, but there's no indication that either are racist. I do find both hypocritical in their views, but there's no reason to play the race card, as you just sink to their level. (as the gender card is in full use already!)

I was going to say this instead: "I should never argue with an idiot; they bring you down to their level then beat you with years of experience."
I find it difficult to believe that BBB is so open in making all kind of excuses for Palin but is able to portray Mrs. Obama as one who hates her country simply by her (BBB"S) perception alone. If she can believe the worst of Mrs. Obama and Obama himself when making excuses for McCain and Palin, then excuse me while I call her out for what she seem to have no trouble projecting on others.

I have no issue with BBB and davious's support of McClain/Paling, I have issue with their willingness to smear the other candidate as a substitute for McClain and Paling's policies.

Also keep in mind, I was really holding back!

I'm against socilized medicare (or anything socilized for that matter. What everyone wants in this election is less government controll, not more. Socilized societies tend to have government involved way too much.) for the reason of the amount oftime it takes to the care. Private compainies get the paperwork done because if they don't, people will not use them for lifesaving procedures and opt for a company that gets their paper work done on time. Eliminate competition by making the government in charge and you create a monopoly. Now this medicare company can choose what procedures are covered, how fast the paper work gets done, and how much tax must be paid for the service (there is a medicare levy in at least one modern country that I am aware of. Not sure about the rest, but this isn't a cheap service and people won't do it for free). Now, if under Blue Cross Blue shield takes one month to complete, and government paper work takes 4 months, then most people will pay for BCBS. But if BCBS doesn't exist because it went out of buisness because everyone is going for FREE medicare, how do you sure that the paperwork is done in a timely manner? You can't. Because there is no competition for the government and therefor, no competition for their health insurance. They can do whatever they want and take all the time they want because there is no threat of loosing customers because said customers will stay bye virtue of the fact that there is no where else to go. That my friends is a monopoly. Its why they aren't legal in the USA and definatly shouldn't control my health insurance.

To give a real world example: My father needed to go in for an operation to remove a kidney that had a malignante tumor growing on it. We were given a date as to when he could come in by the insurance company. A family friend who worked in the health care buisness pulled some stings and got us a much earlier date (about a month earlier.). The date of the operation alone lead him to live a much longer life than the earlier option, and my family has since switched insurance companies because of this event.

YOU will be in or know someone involvled in this situation in life. I garentee it. DO want to be in a position where you never have an option as to how efficiant or inefficiant a company is?

For the record, the inefficient company that we are no longer apart of was a government company for Families working for the government and are mostly offered to low payed soliders and teachers because of its affordability. Quite possibly a system that the government will implement as its free service for the masses.