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Test Subject
#376 Old 8th Sep 2013 at 12:27 AM
Quote: Originally posted by BlakeS5678
Meh. I've never understood that either that either. The best I've had it explained to me, is that God sacrifices an individual for the greater good of all, and that individual will surely go to heaven for dying for the higher power.

A more barbaric theory is that every human's death is a test to your faith, or something.


I agree with that.I read rabbi's interview, he claims that maybe we're born in other faiths for god (AKA Adonai, Krishna, whatever you believe...) to test how much we believe in other faiths, and to see just how strong a connection with another faith someone shows to go as far as converting.(I struggled to explain it, you'd have to read it yourself to understand. xD )
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Mad Poster
#377 Old 8th Sep 2013 at 1:57 AM
Gee... that's a quite far-fetched theory, especially considering people convert from all kinds of religions to all kinds of religion. If they're all to test faith, then all gods must exist... right? (I stick with "none", but that's my point of view).

As for sacrificing for the "greater good" - nothing good ever came out of that. People who sacrifice themselves... Well, it usually means they die. And in my view that's not exactly a "good" thing. Might lead to something good later on, but that's cause and action, which could go either way. It can just as well lead to something bad.
Mad Poster
#378 Old 20th Oct 2015 at 10:58 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 20th Oct 2015 at 11:11 PM.
Quiet, much?

So I kind of stumbled upon an "audio version" of the bible (and yes, air quotes - it's most of the bible, but read by non-believers and skipping some uninteresting/repeating/unnecessary parts, and commenting on it without glossing things over like religious people like to do).

So far I've come to the conclusion that
A: So far there's not a shred of moral behavior in the book, and the big G apparently has no clue what moral behavior even means. There's very little said about how to be a good and moral person. Most of the time it's "this is how to not piss off God, and all the bad things that happens to you if you do - and by the way, the rules are complete BS if you have half a brain, but who cares, the Big G said this is how it should be".
B: There's a whole lot more warfare, genocide, violence, gang rape, sex, slavery and chopping people to bits for no good reason than I thought there would be.
C: The amount of contradictions is staggering. Humans are created twice (maybe three times), light is created before the sun - and that's just a couple of examples from the first couple of chapters. It only gets worse from there. It's like they didn't even try to put some continuity in it, even in parts most likely written by the same person. They say one thing, and then contradict themselves in the next sentence.
D: The amount of repetition is basically a nightmare for an editor. I think they just skipped that step, and chunked in any bits and pieces they could find regardless of contradictions or repetitions. That's how w can be reasonably sure there were lots upon lots of writers and editors, and that no 'divine hand' led them while working. Not even a half decent author would put so much rubbish into their work.
E: Lots upon lots of very boring pieces, mainly repeating the pattern of some people pissing off Big G, and getting wiped out completely (preferably by the means of genocide or warfare, killing off even babies and livestock).
F: Any first-grader could come up with a better set of commandments than the twenty presented on the stone tablets (or the X amount of other commandments also mentioned). Oh, and those commandments people count as the first ones? In case you didn't know already, they're only the first draft. The second draft is just bizarre, but apparently that's the version that counts.
G: I understand even better now that people say they read the bible and become atheists. If I wasn't one already, I would have become one by now. The big G is so far the maddest, most sadistic character I've come upon in any book (and that says a lot, considering who's split on the second place). He's like every horrible and evil person that's ever existed balled up and multiplied with a million. Certainly not somebody I'd put any faith in.

Would've gone through the entire alphabet, but I'm still somewhere near the beginning of this horror of a book, so I probably have even more complaints at the end of it. I'm still somewhere in the first part of the Old Testament. It's one of the pieces with lots of nothing and repetition happening between somewhat uninteresting wars, and my brain kind of zoned out a bit. Probably one of those pieces nobody bothers to mention much. I'm now pretty certain I wouldn't have been able to get through the written version. Without the commentary I would've given up long before now. Seriously - how is it even possible to take this thing literally? Or even figuratively speaking as a book of morals and whatnots? Even as a book of history it's plain useless. Ah well. I guess people read into it what they want to see.
dodgy builder
#379 Old 12th Nov 2015 at 5:48 PM
I've had a 1 year course at the uni about the Christianity or something. I didn't really think it would be useful at all, being an atheist, but I was wrong. It's a bit amusing really, but Norwegian Christians claims they just follow the new testament.

At the uni it's a modern scientific approach to the religion they teach though. It makes it easier when it comes to contradictions and immorality in the old testament. They try to explain it according to how old each text is and where it might have been written, who wrote it and what they wanted to achieve.

For me though, I realised I didn't need to be part of the national church to be saved so to speak. From there the road to atheism was short.

I have been very sick lately and thought it would matter to my beliefs, but it didn't one bit. The only thing I think about is how I can make a nice place for my grave that reflects those beliefs, and let's my family spend some time at my grave for contemplation when I'm gone. I'm a city girl to the extent I don't see the same interest in a green patch.
Test Subject
#380 Old 21st Nov 2015 at 8:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
Quiet, much?


Just a thought? Perhaps the reason its so quiet here is because no matter what the topic(religion or NON-religion) it always comes back to the same thing?! Atheists trashing main stream religions....its tiresome.

No one seems able to put put forward a reason to not believe in anything/one without first being disrespectful of someone else's faith. Surely the there are other ways of promoting non-belief (UNReligion) without being disrespectful of someones beliefs? I know I would be interested to hear some points of view.
Top Secret Researcher
#381 Old 22nd Nov 2015 at 12:18 AM
Let me guess: you're a Christian or other Abrahamic.

Okay. I don't believe in a god because I don't see any reason for it. What is the reason to believe that gods exist?

The responses to that always seem to boil down to "because something can't come from nothing". But that argument is self-defeating. If something can't come from nothing, then where did the gods come from? They're something, aren't they? If a god can come from nothing, then why can't the universe?
(Christian response: "but my god is different! He's eternal!" So why can't the universe be eternal, too?)

And then there are the matters of personal experience: feelings that something bigger is out there. Well, that's fine, but those experiences are entirely subjective. Some people feel that way. I don't and never have.
(Christian response: "but you've hardened your heart! You can never become a Christian if you aren't already Christian enough to think in the way a Christian does!" Enough said.)

That is why I don't believe. I see no reason to believe that something is out there. It doesn't make sense to me, logically or emotionally.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Test Subject
#382 Old 22nd Nov 2015 at 6:01 AM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Let me guess: you're a Christian or other Abrahamic.


I'm just curious.

Some people believe in something and have a reason for it, and others dont believe in anything and I think that may be more difficult to explain, so that's why when I saw this thread I thought it might be interesting. I am interested in religion and why people choose to believe what they do, but I stay away from 'specific' religious discussions because they all seem to get heated and descend into simply ridiculing anyone who does have a belief regardless of what it may be. We respect each others race, sexual orientation, cultures almost everything except what they choose to believe. I'm not sure why it causes everyone to over-react, but I see one of the religious threads even had to be locked.

I have friends and family from both points of view, those who believe in a higher being and those who dont, and strangely enough my atheist friends 'evangelize' (if I can use that word) me way more aggressively than those who have a belief. It always surprises me.

I posted here and immediately it was assumed that I belonged to one of the mainstream religions, and it seems its not possible to discuss reasons for un-belief without comparing it to a specific religion.

Anyway, thanks for answering and for your point of view.
Mad Poster
#383 Old 22nd Nov 2015 at 7:19 AM Last edited by simmer22 : 22nd Nov 2015 at 7:48 AM.
A lot of atheists come from mainstream religions. It seems most of those who 'evangelize' are in that category, and they probably do so to get more people over to 'the dark side', since atheists (those willing to call themselves atheists in public, anyway) are a minority. Nowadays, particularly if you're in the wrong place, it's almost considered worse to be an atheist than all the regular 'worsts'. Even being a part of the LGBTQIA population is in some places more accepted than not being religious, and getting out of the atheist closet can be very difficult. If nobody says anything, how is that going to change?

Religion, particularly mixed in with politics, might seem harmless - but it actually causes a lot of harm, and has caused a lot of harm over the past few millennia, often because "my sky cake is always better than your sky pie", or through brainwashing from a young age (almost all religions do that in some degree). As seen just recently, if you pack heavy-duty politics in with a nice little promise of paradise, you can actually make someone blow themselves up in the middle of a busy street, killing themselves and innocent people around them. Can anyone honestly say they would willingly do that without the promise of a paradise/heaven when they die? Several people have said on camera they would sascrifice their own child if their god had asked them to do so. People even refuse medical help because their religion tells them it's wrong. And something isn't quite right in the US politics when the president has to swear on a bible, and when it seems the only 'accepted' religion on that front is having some form of Christianity. And that's just a few examples.

I think the world would have been a much more peaceful place without religion. For instance, it would take a lot to willingly blow yourself up when you're convinced this is the only life you'll get. Statistics even show that places around the world with a higher number of non-believers fare better, with less crime, less abortion, less teen pregnancy, less violence, and so on than among the more religious population. Probably less war and fewer conflicts, too...

I don't have anything against religion when people have a relaxed relationship with it, and manage to keep their beliefs to themselves or their religious community, and as long as it doesn't hurt other people. It should be just as okay to be an atheist as to be a Christian, buddhist, Muslim, or any other religion/non-religion. As long as you're a good person of good morals and reasoning, and as long as you don't let your beliefs cloud your reasoning, it shouldn't matter which sky god you do or don't believe in.

As for the 'reasoning' many religious people use for why they believe, about 99.9% of it is just vomiting up already existing reasons, most of it with failed logic or circular reasoning, or using their holy book or personal experiences and feelings as proof. The point one percent is just to be nice, really.

As for me, I was raised Christian, but mostly through Sunday school and very little at home. I think I started moving toward atheism in very early days, because I always felt something was off with the whole religion thing. After a lot of consideration, I've eventually landed on being a 'socially Christian' atheist. I follow Christian traditions within my comfort zone, mostly to please my family and because of all the holidays. But I don't believe in a god, and I don't go to church unless it's to support family/friends. I do like Christmas, though, and since it's technically not Christian in origin, I'm all for it.
Scholar
#384 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 6:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
...and since it's technically not Christian in origin, I'm all for it.


Before everyone jumps on the "OMG! It is so! Christian Christmas both have Christ...etc etc, please read the following threads, and if you can come up with something new, THEN post. Also, please leave the nice dead threads alone. Necromancy is BAD m'k?!

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=335920
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=336156
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=380143
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=429093

Sarcasm is a body's natural defense against stupid.
Mad Poster
#385 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 1:12 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 24th Nov 2015 at 2:05 PM.
Where I live, "Christ Mass" is the equivalient of "Christmas" and is rarely used outside of church purposes. For daily usage we have an older version more similar to "Yule", used before the church poked their nose in old traditions. Most churches and similar use "Yule", although they sometimes tend to call one or all of the masses around advent/Christmas "Christ Mass".

Yule existed long before Christianity took it over. It was just very convenient for the church to put their holidays on already existing holidays, so people would adapt faster to it.

Jesus (if he even existed - there's a lot of debate and no firm proof) wouldn't even have been born at the 24/25th of December in the year 1 a.d., but more around year 6-4 b.c. in september/october, if it's supposed to fit with the sparing info in the Christmas Gospel. The whole story of Jesus' birth was most likely based on earlier myths and traditions (possibly Mithras - QI has a funny one about that --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSm7YPMQOSo).

The version I celebrate is a mix of old, non-Christian and Christian traditions, along with family traditions. Basically, we take what we like and scramble it together. I don't mind a little bit of Christianity in my celebration of Yule. A lot of my favorite Christmas songs have Christian elements in them, and it's pretty much impossible to get around the symbol useage.

Oh, and this comment, from one of the old topics:
Quote: Originally posted by Rabid
How do you wish an atheist a happy holiday, anyway ? I think that it's insensitive to make that assumption and nothing can change that opinion of mine, but the world has greater problems to worry about.


Happy Holidays would suffice for most of us, I think (Holiday having two meanings - vacation, and holy day). Many atheists celebrate some form of holiday around this time, often the one they grew up with as a child if they used to have a religion. Some celebrate a less religious version, while others keep old traditions alive no matter how religious. A lot of atheists have still religious family members, and choose to honor their traditions to the point of their comfort zone. Assuming we sit alone and sad in a dark corner not celebrating anything is just as thoughtless as thinking everyone celebrates Christmas. To me, the holiday season is about family, friends, love and sharing, along with keeping nice traditions alive.
dodgy builder
#386 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 2:48 PM
Where I live we use Jul as the term. It's a word from before the Christian religion came, but believed to mean wheel. Like the sun turning, seasons like the wheel turns basically.

Jul for me is without religious symbols and it's not hard to do. It's based around food really, not many gifts for adults. We used to have a tree and the decoration of colored balls and glossy ribbons, some people like flags too. I'm in many ways celebrating a pagan wheel turning. It's not a problem, but the songs I can't get around, I must have them.

BTW we say God Jul. No Christ in it, a piece of cake.

The tolerance for atheists is surpricingly low, so that's the reason I don't discuss it. People very often end up in problems when explaining why you have to add something that no one can see, to explain something that needs no explanation.

I have long time ago realized that it's perfectly Ok if the universe can't be explained by me, as long as it doesn't fall into my head I couldn't care less. Being a ferm believer in science I'm sure someone else has it all covered.
Top Secret Researcher
#387 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 6:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I posted here and immediately it was assumed that I belonged to one of the mainstream religions, and it seems its not possible to discuss reasons for un-belief without comparing it to a specific religion.


Well, yes, @Jezzie. Only Christians assume that Christianity and Islam are the only mainstream religions. Those are the only ones atheists tend to get aggressive about, for obvious reason. None of the other mainstream religions - Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hellenism, Wiccan, etc. - are dealt with harshly by atheists, mainly because they're not the ones insisting that we believe or using their religion to justify trying to take away our rights.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Theorist
#388 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 6:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
None of the other mainstream religions - Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hellenism, Wiccan, etc. - are dealt with harshly by atheists, mainly because they're not the ones insisting that we believe or using their religion to justify trying to take away our rights.


That's mostly just because of where most of us are though, what times we live in. Hellenes weren't much better than Christians or Muslims when it came to tolerance, and neither were the Asian religions at many times and some places even recently.

Again, I don't actually think people being assholes is something to do with religion. I think there's a deep asshole impulse in humanity, and people like to use things like religion (or national borders, or skin color, or...) to rationalize all the evil things they think and do because no one wants to feel like an asshole. If some invisible sky person says it's okay, or if the other people aren't civilized or human to you, then it's okay to be a dick. It's just a different dance to the same sort of tune.

On the other hand, I guess I'm half convinced that some people would actually just be unleashed assholes without some sort of arbitrary authority telling them not to be. I mean, for me personally the notion that you're only a good person because of the threat of eternal punishment isn't necessarily a compelling argument. For some people though, I guess I can get along with maybe the only way they're not complete savages is the threat of consequences. It's the basics of government, so it fits in with the screwed up "morality" of religion just fine too. So in that regard I guess there's a role for religion besides encouraging magical thinking and justifying bad behavior, and if some people are comforted by magical thinking then so be it for that as well.
dodgy builder
#389 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 8:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mistermook
On the other hand, I guess I'm half convinced that some people would actually just be unleashed assholes without some sort of arbitrary authority telling them not to be. I mean, for me personally the notion that you're only a good person because of the threat of eternal punishment isn't necessarily a compelling argument. For some people though, I guess I can get along with maybe the only way they're not complete savages is the threat of consequences.


Like we can see with terrorists the threat of concequences only works if you agree on what should have consequences. Religious people just make people with very little education think they have all the answers. Sometimes they are even the only organization caring about the poor people. They might pay for the family of the suicide bomber or make sure the farmers get paid for the harvest.

Organized religion is a big force in the community or even in the world. They support the locals since medieval times in Europe. In times when the authorities really only cared for the rich, the rich only cared because the church told them to.

That force though can be used both for good and bad. Like the reformation, the monarchs of Europe wanted the power of the church and replaced it with their own church. A church that wouldn't fight the national authorities, and at the same time the poor people lost their protector.

The church is a medieval institution fighting the believes of medieval people. We should know better now. A democratic society with educated people doesn't need religion.
Theorist
#390 Old 24th Nov 2015 at 11:21 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
Religious people just make people with very little education think they have all the answers.


Sure, but so does Rush Limbaugh or a shitty layman's version of Marx. People with little education (or enormous amounts of education, for that matter) thinking they have all the answers isn't dependent on religion or even politics. Dipshits thinking they're bright can happen with sports teams and social class, with skin color and maps. What I'm saying is the corollary to haters gonna hate: assholes are always going to be assholes.

Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
A democratic society with educated people doesn't need religion.


I don't think there's an awful lot a democratic society with educated people "needs" beyond that and a functional economy, but I don't think that religion itself is to blame for all of the world's ills and I don't think they're the source of those ills either. It's just a tool for the credulous, manipulative, fanatically inclined, misplaced and/or belongers. If some people didn't have religion they'd just shit the bed and come up with another religion, and another, and another, and another, until maybe they didn't call it a religion but it would still quack and flap like a duck whatever the duck was called.
Top Secret Researcher
#391 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 12:13 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Mistermook
That's mostly just because of where most of us are though, what times we live in. Hellenes weren't much better than Christians or Muslims when it came to tolerance, and neither were the Asian religions at many times and some places even recently.


Well, yeah. People do care more about the things that directly affect their own lives. A lot of the atheists of the world are in places where the Abrahamics dominate.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Theorist
#392 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 12:36 AM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Well, yeah. People do care more about the things that directly affect their own lives. A lot of the atheists of the world are in places where the Abrahamics dominate.


That's the thing though, it's not about the religion or the times. It's just that people are bastards.
Theorist
#393 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 1:15 AM
Btw, what a fucking mess to get rid of the Roman Catholic Church in my life, where I was a member of, being baptist as a baby and all. I had to fucking write and send 6 or 7 letters to be deleted from their administration. If I remember correctly
- the local City Hall for sharing my info with the church
- the HQ/administrator for the Christian churches in general in The Netherlands
- Roman Catholic Church Netherlands HQ
- my local bishopery
- the church I was baptisted
- the local parish

(The last three all within the same City Boundary as the first one)

The gorgeous Tina (TS3) and here loving family available for download here.
Test Subject
#394 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 12:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Well, yes, @Jezzie. Only Christians assume that Christianity and Islam are the only mainstream religions. Those are the only ones atheists tend to get aggressive about, for obvious reason. None of the other mainstream religions - Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hellenism, Wiccan, etc. - are dealt with harshly by atheists, mainly because they're not the ones insisting that we believe or using their religion to justify trying to take away our rights.


I re-read my posts and I couldn't see where I gave that impression? In my first post I made a general, non specific reference to main stream religion, and then you mentioned 'Christianity and other Abrahamic' and so my second post I said "one of the main stream religions"... but then they are, aren't they? Anyway, no worries, let me rephrase then for the sake of clarity, 'I posted here and immediately it was assumed that I belonged to a (any) religion.'

I cant speak for where you live, but I have never had any of my rights taken away or forced to believe anything by a member/members of any faith/belief system. I would be offended and furious! As a multi-faith population we are permitted to believe/not believe as we wish and it would not be tolerated under our constitution. But then, by the same token, we are not allowed to take away/infringe upon the the rights of those who do belong to a faith, they are protected by the same laws and constitution. I was raised to believe that discrimination or victimisation of anyone, whatever the reason, is grossly unacceptable and more than a little dangerous. Obviously human nature being what is we all stumble upon the odd jerk or two, every group who thinks they are in the right has them, but for the most part they are easy to deal with, even amusing at times.
dodgy builder
#395 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 4:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Viktor86
Btw, what a fucking mess to get rid of the Roman Catholic Church in my life, where I was a member of, being baptist as a baby and all. I had to fucking write and send 6 or 7 letters to be deleted from their administration. If I remember correctly
- the local City Hall for sharing my info with the church
- the HQ/administrator for the Christian churches in general in The Netherlands
- Roman Catholic Church Netherlands HQ
- my local bishopery
- the church I was baptisted
- the local parish

(The last three all within the same City Boundary as the first one)


It's the same in Norway. We have taxes going to support the church and some more religious groups. It's based on their membership lists though, so of course they fake the lists.

I had to join the humanists to get out of the tax to the church, only now it's suppose to go to the humanists instead.

To get out I sent a form given to me by the humanists to the church where I was baptist. I didn't hear a thing. Then this massive scandal, humanists probably lost lots of money. Because for some reason either you're a church member or if you're not listed, then you're something else.

A national statistics agency took over the registry the church has been doing for ages. Now finally I get a letter to confirm what membership I wanted to keep.

We're so secular on the surface with 93% being in the old times protestant church, when you start really caring ... not so secular after all.
dodgy builder
#396 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 4:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mistermook
That's the thing though, it's not about the religion or the times. It's just that people are bastards.


Don't be such a synic. We people need each other. If you hate where you live, just move somewhere else.

I don't know where I can copy text on my mobile so making a new post instead.
Top Secret Researcher
#397 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 5:08 PM
The quote you were looking for is here.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Atheists trashing main stream religions....its tiresome.


Two of them out of dozens. That's like saying "human beings go by the screen handle hugbug993". Either it was so ridiculously general it was useless, or you were one of those idiots who thought Christianity was the only religion. I decided to put faith in your ability to speak. Sorry about that.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I cant speak for where you live, but I have never had any of my rights taken away or forced to believe anything by a member/members of any faith/belief system. I would be offended and furious!


There are thirteen countries where anyone expressing non-belief in the dominant religion will be executed: Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. There are quite a few others where police will ignore murders of non-religious people.

Or how about the recent situation in Bangladesh where atheists were arrested and faced ten years in jail for, and I quote the police commissioner on this: "They have hurt religious feelings of the people by writing against different religions and their prophets and founders including the Prophet Mohammed."

In Austria, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Malta, and Poland, blasphemy laws allow for jail sentences up to three years on charges of "offending a religion or believers".

But I'm most familiar with the situation in my home country. We have thousands of elected positions in the government. Only one of the people inhabiting these seats is an admitted atheist. Some places in the country even have laws that prohibit atheists from taking office, and even meeting with an atheist group can expose a candidate to a smear campaign.
Christians here have regularly attempted to force students to partake in Christian activities. This could mean anything from mandated prayers in classes (where anyone who doesn't pray gets kicked out of the classroom at best), to religious assemblies where preachers tell little kids they're going to hell, to refusing to allow students to graduate if they aren't Christian (that attempt failed, fortunately).

Some organizations also tried to make it so that atheists and other non-Christians could not get married. They tried to pass bills stating that people could only be lawfully wed at their church. There are also cases of some people in the marriage license offices using their religion as an excuse to deny licenses to people they disapprove of. Gay couples are a big target, but atheists are also likely to get tied up in bureaucracy.

There have been several studies taken about Christian views on atheism. About half of the people in this country feel that atheists threaten them and are less trustworthy than terrorists. Because of this lack of trust, atheists are more likely to lose custody of their children when their ex is religious, more likely to be taken off duty and scrutinized in the military, and face more hurdles (or just get outright rejected) when attempting to create organizations.

While it's illegal to ask questions about someone's religion (as well as their politics, sexual orientation, and other such touchy stuff) in job interviews, atheists are less likely to be hired when they are known to be atheists. They're also more likely to be fired. Oh, and known atheists are more often turned down for volunteering positions. There was also a big case where an atheist organization attempted to help at a soup kitchen and got rudely rebuffed when the director said that she would rather resign than work with atheists. Why would she say that? Because, "This is a ministry to serve God. We stand on the principles of God. Do they (atheists) think that our guests are so ignorant that they don't know what an atheist is? Why are they targeting us? They don't give any money. I wouldn't want their money." Direct quote.

That's not to say that this country doesn't discriminate against anyone else. A certain political candidate has proposed shutting down all mosques (and plenty of idiots agree) because he thinks they would be breeding grounds for terrorism. Nothing of the sort was proposed when the big Catholic scandal erupted. (And yet atheists are still less trusted than Muslims, according to polls.) Speaking of which, nearly half the country is refusing to take in Syrian refugees just because of their religion.

And then you get down to the microaggressions. For instance, packages with brands or destinations that indicate atheism are more likely to disappear in the mail, take longer to arrive, and get vandalized by postal workers. Some places offer discounts only to Christians. I once got yelled at in public for refusing a church flyer, and most of the people around me were nodding in approval at the screamer. One person actually offered to buy them something. Oh, and there was the time I was a little kid and one woman used her religion as an excuse to try to trick me into eating meat and tell me and my mom I would go to hell for being a vegetarian - and people supported the woman because she was quoting the bible.

Sure, most Christians are okay people. Some of them do care about stopping discrimination against non-Christians and other minorities, but far too many of them will passively go along with authority figures who pretend to fit their religion in order to further their agendas, or even participate in the discrimination. If you don't have to deal with that, great, but far too many of us have to deal with threats to our lives and our rights.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Theorist
#398 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 5:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
Don't be such a synic. We people need each other. If you hate where you live, just move somewhere else.


Unfortunately, as I've lamented elsewhere, I can't move to Mars yet so the fundamental problem with anywhere I'd move is going to exist. People suck, people are assholes, people exist.

I'm not cynical. I really, truly, hope that humanity will eventually exist long enough to get over being barely-civilized hunter-gatherers pretending to walk upright for the sake of nuclear weapons and jet airplanes. Given the enormous amount of progress we've managed in a relatively short period of time from poo-flinging, I think this is something that I could look forward to, if I were a vampire or immortal highlander. But I'm not, and in the interim it's assholes all the way up and down.
dodgy builder
#399 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 6:10 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mistermook
Unfortunately, as I've lamented elsewhere, I can't move to Mars yet so the fundamental problem with anywhere I'd move is going to exist. People suck, people are assholes, people exist.

I'm not cynical. I really, truly, hope that humanity will eventually exist long enough to get over being barely-civilized hunter-gatherers pretending to walk upright for the sake of nuclear weapons and jet airplanes. Given the enormous amount of progress we've managed in a relatively short period of time from poo-flinging, I think this is something that I could look forward to, if I were a vampire or immortal highlander. But I'm not, and in the interim it's assholes all the way up and down.


I couldn't live with an attitude like that, we will just have to agree on disagreeing. I would just feel like something was eating me up from inside. Sorry if I offended you.

I seems like hugbug has more of a punch as atheist then I do.

While jezzie on the other hand with the cute explanation on the state of religion in her country. It sounds like my view on my own country used to be, before I actually started to pay attention. Sorry if I'm offending you.

When it comes to Denmark and the religious paragraph. Is that before or after the publication of the socalled mohammed drawings? If it's before it could just be a case of forgotten legislation. If it's after those drawings could just be the reason. There is a lot of pressure on the criticism of religion in Scandinavia. The church has had to endure it and now the Muslims comes and can't handle it.
Top Secret Researcher
#400 Old 25th Nov 2015 at 6:27 PM
It's an old law - hasn't been used in court since the 1970's - but earlier this year, during the UN Human Rights Council, the Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Religion or Belief recommended that all anti-blasphemy laws be repealed. Denmark scrutinized the law and decided to keep it.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
 
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