Hi there! You are currently browsing as a guest. Why not create an account? Then you get less ads, can thank creators, post feedback, keep a list of your favourites, and more!
Inventor
Original Poster
#1 Old 10th Nov 2013 at 5:38 PM
Default Backwoods Stupidity
Alexander Goth went round the Three Lakes vacation site, making a note of all the teenagers. He found only four, and when they turned up at college, they were all mentally challenged:
Juan Harris: 19 personality points: 1 7 5 3 3
Debbie King: 25 personality points: 2 3 9 7 4
Elizabeth Ng: 21 personality points: 2 3 5 7 4
Gordon Nott: 23 personality points: 1 4 5 7 6
Look at those Neatness points! Not one has more that 2 points. Are we to assume that sims from the wild woods never learn to flush the toilet? Can they work out how to turn the shower on and off? Must they throw the food towards their mouths? That is going to be one messy dormitory. I'm thinking of the film, 'Deliverance' - the one with the idiot savant who was a whizz on the banjo but could not talk. I wonder whether the game designers had that sort of society in mind?
Um ... has anyone developed a banjo for the game?
Advertisement
Scholar
#2 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 1:13 AM
They know all this, it´s just that they do not seem to care (personality points dictate what you feel about the world, not what you know). It´s us city folk who are obsessed with cleanness, sometimes to the point where we kill our natural defenses and never train our bodies how to properly deal with pathogens. "Mentally challenged" sounds too harsh and downright wrong to me, however, it IS a term Alexander might use. I imagine him trying to "teach the primitves civilisation" while in truth it is him who has much to learn. You certainly have the makings of a great and fun story there!
Mad Poster
#3 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 1:29 AM
Since when is number of personality points an indicator of intelligence or quality generally? It is not worse to be shy than outgoing, to be serious than playful; and sloppy sims can learn to keep their environment clean enough to prevent disease without a certain amount of disorder driving them mad. Extreme neat sims are often less functional than extreme sloppies are; it can be a symptom of OCD, or be used as a crutch. (But oh, they're so adorable when they strut off to clean up messes!)

You're projecting way too much onto a random statistical cluster.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Undead Molten Llama
#4 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 1:57 AM
Hey, if you want truly "mentally challenged," try my "personality points." 0 neat (you can't get slobbier than me in my natural habitat, seriously), 10 outgoing, 10 playful, maybe 2 active, and probably 4 nice, due to me being a grouchy curmudgeon here and there. Yeah, I need help.

But (a little more) seriously, I agree with Enki that you might have the makings of a good story there. A character having to distastefully deal with things outside of their regular cultural milieu and slowly learning to adapt more than he/she makes those around him adapt -- essentially, coming down off his/her high horse -- is always good entertainment, IMO.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Inventor
Original Poster
#5 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 6:03 AM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
... you might have the makings of a good story there. A character having to distastefully deal with things outside of their regular cultural milieu and slowly learning to adapt more than he/she makes those around him adapt -- essentially, coming down off his/her high horse -- is always good entertainment, IMO.

I was just wondering about the intentions of the game designers. You know how they set up some story lines: Cassandra may marry Don, or be left at the altar; Daniel may get caught in flagrante with Kaylynn, or not; Dustin Broke may turn out a criminal, or reform. The general lack of personality points in Three Lakes suggests poverty. Look at the personality points for the Twikkii teenagers:
Joe Grundstrom: 38 personality points: 9 9 6 9 5
Lainey Barthelet: 31 personality points: 4 7 8 9 3
Marylena Hamilton: 26 personality points: 5 3 8 3 7
Rosemarie Jitmakusol: 27 personality points: 2 6 9 6 4
Stephan Benson: 30 personality points: 4 7 4 9 6
Average for Twikkii: 30
Average for Three Lakes: 22
You think that's not significant?
Mad Poster
#6 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 4:21 PM
I think it's not significant to me. Any number of technical side effects of carelessness could cause it; and besides, I could care less about the intentions of the game designers. I doubt most of them had any. And I've seen no indication that genetic personality points reflect anything but Nature. Functional personality points reflect Nurture, so in order to make this significant, I'd have to compare the two.

If it's significant to you, go for it.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Mad Poster
#7 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 9:54 PM
If total personality points are indeed a measure of a Sim's intelligence, that would just about make Craig Royce, the slob, whom I made playable, the stupidest Sim in my 'hood. His personality is 0, 6, 0, 5, 6 giving only 17 points in total. He certainly has his problems in life. Even Mallory Mace, with two neat points, autonomously cleans up after him! I think his employer must think he's stupid. He's vastly overqualified for his present job as petrol pump attendant, but he can't get promotion. And, stupid or not, he can paint better than any other Sim in the neighbourhood, including Consort Capp, his nearest rival. He's supposed to need one creativity point for his next promotion. He's got nine, but he doesn't get promoted! I wish he would get promoted, because he's the warden of my downtown Teen Townie Hostel, where teenage townies wanting to become playable can stay in (let's say) adequate accommodation. His low pay combined with fairly high bills (it's quite a big house) mean that the teens have to work. and it's their wages which effectively pay for the running of the hostel. So is his lack of promotion due to his innate stupidity? I think it's really more likely a result of his laziness, combined with a cheap bed, means he never gets enough energy and comfort, so he always goes to work in a bad mood. And the low pay means can't buy a better bed. A bit of a vicious circle!
Mad Poster
#8 Old 11th Nov 2013 at 10:39 PM
I prefer to gauge Sims on the 'ambition' they might demonstrate in their lives. According to another poster (in another thread, or site), she uses their 'active points' minus their 'playful points' to gauge how ambitious they are and how they'll fare in life. Her calculator is this:

Active Points (A) - Playful Points (P)

-10 to -5 Underachiever
-4 to +4 Average
+5 to +10 Overachiever

Perhaps it's not intelligence that is indicated but 'get up and go'. I prefer to use this idea instead of saying that a pixel is stupid. Maybe just a bit lacking in the motivation department.

Of course if you don't really like the points for your sims, you can always change them with the Sim Blender.
Undead Molten Llama
#9 Old 12th Nov 2013 at 2:43 AM
Quote: Originally posted by music2ologist
I was just wondering about the intentions of the game designers...You think that's not significant?


Could be significant, could be coincidence.

On the other hand...Aren't the characters you listed the tourists at those locations, not the locals? (i.e, the ones dressed in tourist outfits with the fanny packs and stuff, not the ones dressed in "local" outfits) If there's any significance here, it's that the cretins choose to visit Three Lakes, not that the locals themselves are cretins. And as a person who calls a small mountain town home, I do have to say that it IS generally the tourists who are the cretins, not us hippie locals.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Inventor
Original Poster
#10 Old 12th Nov 2013 at 9:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
Aren't the characters you listed the tourists at those locations, not the locals? (i.e, the ones dressed in tourist outfits with the fanny packs and stuff, not the ones dressed in "local" outfits)

That's an interesting distinction. I thought just location made them locals. I suppose if they turn up in the hotels, they must be tourists. The ones in 'local' dress could have any sort of motive.
Anyway, to liven my game, I've put all the Twikkii teenagers in a dormitory with furnishings copied from the Twikkii hotels: bamboo furniture, flower pictures and rugs; and the Three Lakes teenagers in a log cabin dormitory. Bella has just gone touring in Takemizu, and found five teenagers:
Pong Grundstrom, Amber Dawn, Connor Dawn, Steven McAuley and Debbie Olshfski. I'm looking forward to building them a curly-roofed dorm with all the furnishings from the Far East collection. The university will gain by the cultural diversity. The Twikkians can hula and hang loose; the Three Lakers can slap dance and chest pound; the Takemizuans will be able to tai chi and bow. Everyone wins.
Scholar
#11 Old 12th Nov 2013 at 11:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by FranH
I prefer to gauge Sims on the 'ambition' they might demonstrate in their lives. According to another poster (in another thread, or site), she uses their 'active points' minus their 'playful points' to gauge how ambitious they are and how they'll fare in life.


*waves*

Quote: Originally posted by FranH
Perhaps it's not intelligence that is indicated but 'get up and go'. I prefer to use this idea instead of saying that a pixel is stupid. Maybe just a bit lacking in the motivation department.


That's mostly how I run it, although I do make overachieving sims geniuses (lot debugger -> make me smart). My reasoning is that active sims are more likely to have "get up and go" and actually do stuff, and serious sims are more likely to be able to sit around studying for longer periods of time. A lazy sim is less likely to see benefit in skilling up, and a playful sim is going to find it difficult studying for long periods of time.

One of my underachieving sims made their way to level 7 of cooking skill (normally limited to 5) simply because she actively wanted to learn the skill. I've found that aspiration is more of a general indicator as to what they'll want to do -- an overachieving Pleasure sim wanted nothing more than to laze around the house all day and play games (but hey, level 10 gamer career, he bought in enough money to justify doing so).
Undead Molten Llama
#12 Old 12th Nov 2013 at 12:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by music2ologist
I'm looking forward to building them a curly-roofed dorm with all the furnishings from the Far East collection. The university will gain by the cultural diversity. The Twikkians can hula and hang loose; the Three Lakers can slap dance and chest pound; the Takemizuans will be able to tai chi and bow. Everyone wins.


That's a great idea. Although, I don't think the tourists know the gestures and the dances unless they've learned them in the course of you playing the vacation spots. I believe this is so because I've seen them do the head-scratching and the "I don't really know what I'm doing" version of the gestures, at least. I'm not sure about the dances. But either way, you can change their outfits to the local ones (at least to start, before they "acclimate") and pretend that they were actual locals, and you can use the Sim Blender, I think, to bestow dance and gesture skills upon them.

Come to think of it, I know that Takemizu has teen locals because one of my playable teens fell in love with one while he and his family were on a vacation there, and he eventually married her. It was a while ago when I did that, but I'm pretty sure it was Debbie Olfshki. I'm bad with names, good with faces. She had the red Maxis short dreads hairstyle; I think her name was Debbie. For a little while, I kept her in "local dress," in this case a kimono, until she "acclimated" to her new culture, sort of like what you're doing. I believe Steven Macauley is also an actual Takemizu local teen, too, if memory serves, he's blond and wears the kimono with the navy-ish blue pattern on it. There's one other that I remember, a blonde girl with the shoulder-length straight hair; don't remember her name. So, those will know how to bow, at least, and probably tai chi as well.

But! I'm pretty sure both Three Lakes and Twikkii don't have actual local teens. Only adults. At those locations, I'm pretty sure the teens were all tourists, not locals...but I could be wrong. If I'm right, then using the tourists as "imported locals" at your Uni for your purpose here might be your only option, unless you want to go in and age the actual locals down so that you can send them to college.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 12th Nov 2013 at 2:09 PM
You can tell the tourists because they show up in all three vacation hoods. The locals stick to their home space.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Lab Assistant
#14 Old 13th Nov 2013 at 1:04 PM
As far as I know there are local teens in all 3 vacation hoods.
In my latest 2 hoods I have made all the locals myself - trying
to stick to how many of each age the Places had originally.
And I made teens for all 3 Places.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 13th Nov 2013 at 3:59 PM
So basically, you're trying to say that Nervous Subject is 'mentally challenged' or something? He may be a complete slob, antisocial, hard to get along with and reluctant to do anything most consider to be 'fun', but that does not make him less intelligent. He's got a lot of personality despite only having ten active points. It's a lot of fun to interact or watch him deal with others when he's not being played. Besides, he makes an excellent daddy, and looks so cute with a baby-bump.

With the personality points, I think they just wanted to make the mountain townies more like the stereotypical 'mountain people' who apparently all have poor hygiene. I do live in the boonies and tend to be rather lax when cleaning, but I was born in the suburbs, not in the hills.
Inventor
Original Poster
#16 Old 13th Nov 2013 at 6:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by JDacapo
So basically, you're trying to say that Nervous Subject is 'mentally challenged' or something?

It's hard to tell. Sometimes when you're training twin toddlers, one will learn noticeably faster that the other. I don't know what to call that if it's not superior intelligence.
I have now built my pagoda-style dormitory, and called it Takemizu College. It has a zen garden out the back, and a tea table. I sent to college four teens from Takemizu:
Pong Grundstrom: 32 personality points: 9 3 9 7 4
Steven McAuley: 25 personality points: 9 2 6 3 5
Debbie Olshfski: 32 personality points: 77837
Christa Midlock: 37 personality points: 9 3 9 7 9
That's an average of 31 personality points for Takemizu. All four turned up in kimonos. They spun into drab clothing, but I sent them straight back into kimonos, and gave the girls geisha hairstyles. The zen garden is a big hit. They wander off there once their work is finished.
Mad Poster
#17 Old 13th Nov 2013 at 8:15 PM
Interesting how we can look at the SAME SIM and assign them different characteristics (stupid, underachiever, whatever), and translate their personality points into all sorts of things. My active sims HAVE to like sports and exercising, my neat and serious sims HAVE to wear glasses, go to college, and have serious jobs. My lazy sloppy sims HAVE to like grilled cheese.

Stand up, speak out. Just not to me..
Mad Poster
#18 Old 14th Nov 2013 at 1:21 AM
Quote: Originally posted by music2ologist
Sometimes when you're training twin toddlers, one will learn noticeably faster that the other. I don't know what to call that if it's not superior intelligence.


I'm not sure about the toddler skills, but there are certainly personality traits that boost certain skill gains for sims. You probably know (but may have forgotten?) these: super neat sims gain Cleaning skill faster; super active sims gain Body skill faster; super outgoing sims gain Charisma skill faster, and so on. (Not going to try to remember them all. Just making the point.)

I don't consider those personality traits as indicators of intelligence so much as indicators of affinities for certain types of knowledge or skill. A talent in one area does not determine overall intelligence. However, I can definitely see how a sim who's highly outgoing, active, and neat would seem to be smarter than some other sims, seeing as how they skill fast in three areas. That said, sims with 8 or more points in three traits will have very few points to cover the remaining traits. How does that affect the notion of intelligence, overall? Maybe it doesn't, seeing as how there aren't any traits that make sims skill slower than other sims. I don't know. But aside from artificial influences like smart milk, thinking caps, and the like, sim intelligence is all about player interpretation and, perhaps, prejudice.

Back to an earlier point: I don't think the toddler skills are affected by personality traits, nor do I believe some truly skill faster than others, all outside influences being the same. Obviously, if one's on smart milk and the other's not, or one went through toddlerhood during autumn and the other one was a toddler during another season, or if the player simply thinks of one as being smarter than another, that can affect the situation, whether in reality, or just in perception.
Inventor
Original Poster
#19 Old 14th Nov 2013 at 5:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Darby
... sim intelligence is all about player interpretation and, perhaps, prejudice.

You must be right, Derby. It seems unlikely that the game designers would write in something so complicated as variations in intelligence. It is part of the magic of the game that we can get so immersed as to project our feelings into these pixels. I can't help doing my best for the little creatures. Time and again I have failed to be mean, to let a sim skid downhill and get miserable. I just can't do it! My villains always reform and go straight in the end. I suppose it is for that reason that, when I open up the personality panel of an unknown sim, I feel happy to find more than the standard twenty-five points, cheated if there are fewer. For me the Big Book of Shadows mod, that lets a sim learn table manners and niceness, is such a blessing. With it, all my sims can strive for perfection. No-one is doomed.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 14th Nov 2013 at 5:45 PM
I have the same general problem of not wanting any of my sims to be villainous or miserable forever, but I dropped the tendency to give them all perfect lives fairly early on. The Apocalypse Challenge was very helpful for that. Not being able to control personality traits or keep everyone happy all the time made the game much more interesting, and now I prefer having sims with what some consider to be the "negative" traits, because I see behaviors in those sims I'd never see otherwise. The only low trait I still have a hard time embracing is 0-2 laziness, because of the slouch. I often drag the points up to three to stop it, but that changes the behaviors as well. (I should probably see if there's a hack that prevents the slouch while preserving everything else about the laziness trait.)

Anyway, I ramble. Back to sim intelligence, I do think the devs addressed it to some degree with the trait-based skilling boosts and the various items that increase learning skill. But as I said with the former, those strike me more as talents than intelligence, and the latter are all external factors that make the "intelligence" boost feel artificial to me.

Thinking about it, I think my personal bias with regard to thinking some sims are smarter than others has more to do with aspiration, than anything. Obviously, knowledge sims are the smartest, and pleasure sims the most shallow/dumb. The bias doesn't serve me well though, I don't think, and I try to fight it, because it stifles creativity with regard to interpreting overall personalities in my sims.

What I'd like to see would be certain sims being smarter about how they conduct themselves when left to their own devices. Sims who go to bed hungry and with a full bladder, for instance - not too bright. Sims who think to change a baby's or toddler's diaper first THEN feed them, smart. Things like that. Training makes this possible to some degree, but not as much as I'd like.
Back to top