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College Tuition and Student Loans
by kestrellyn
Posted 24th Jun 2018 at 11:48 PM
- Updated 6th Jan 2024 at 6:05 AM by kestrellyn
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#51
28th Jul 2018 at 10:42 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Well, that's nothing to do with this mod, but here's an idea: put this file in your downloads folder, and run HCDU. Most probably the mod that causes this will be the one that conflicts with this file (TEST.package).
Attached files:
TEST.zip (941 Bytes, 8 downloads) |
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#52
29th Jul 2018 at 11:12 PM
Posts: 883
That was very kind of you to whip up for me! Thank you.
Unfortunately, HCDU showed no conflicts with that package. I had been worried that it must be something hidden in the parameters that HCDU doesn't check...ugh, though, to have that confirmed.
So I did the 50/50, and based on half a dozen restarts after restoring each time from save, only one mod set so far seems to reliably be correlated with my no-customers bug whenever installed: PBK's Fetch Water.
That actually doesn't make any sense either, for some reasons I'll spoiler here---only for anyone who's curious anyway, because those aren't relevant to your mod. The good news here is that based on my 50/50, your mod alone does not cause the no-customers bug, and even if it is somehow involved in the complex interaction that seems to be causing it, that all seems pretty specific to my game and my particular mix of mods, so unlikely to happen to others. Thus, I have gone back to edit my first mention of that in this thread to make that clearer earlier for other readers! Really appreciate your help with the matter.
The finding related to Fetch Water mystifies me. For two reasons, if it's part of the problem then it can only be a mod conflict (on those non-HCDU--detected parameters). First, Fetch Water ought not to have any more effect on the CLP than your mod, since essentially it's just a new crafting station with custom craftable. And second, this integrated-model hood of mine was partly built around Fetch Water from its start, shortly after FW was released! One entire subhood is premised on water rations periodically being allotted to all locals. So it's pretty much impossible that I'd never have noticed before that my sim-owned businesses sometimes would have no customers for entire play sessions. All such businesses are played as part of my regular rotation, plus the economy setup forces sims to go and buy from sim-owned shops during their rotations as well. Although I'm a slow player and there's lots of families to get through, they're now almost finished with year 2. So it's definitely a bug new to my game...or takes time to show up, which is hard to believe also. But I'll mention it over at PBK as well, just in case anyone else has had the issue.
Edit to add: so far, what I can say from actual playtesting of your mod is that the token does indeed seem nice and stable, even with mods being yanked out and put back in. Thank you, thank you, thank you already for making a finance mod that does that.
Unfortunately, HCDU showed no conflicts with that package. I had been worried that it must be something hidden in the parameters that HCDU doesn't check...ugh, though, to have that confirmed.
So I did the 50/50, and based on half a dozen restarts after restoring each time from save, only one mod set so far seems to reliably be correlated with my no-customers bug whenever installed: PBK's Fetch Water.
That actually doesn't make any sense either, for some reasons I'll spoiler here---only for anyone who's curious anyway, because those aren't relevant to your mod. The good news here is that based on my 50/50, your mod alone does not cause the no-customers bug, and even if it is somehow involved in the complex interaction that seems to be causing it, that all seems pretty specific to my game and my particular mix of mods, so unlikely to happen to others. Thus, I have gone back to edit my first mention of that in this thread to make that clearer earlier for other readers! Really appreciate your help with the matter.
The finding related to Fetch Water mystifies me. For two reasons, if it's part of the problem then it can only be a mod conflict (on those non-HCDU--detected parameters). First, Fetch Water ought not to have any more effect on the CLP than your mod, since essentially it's just a new crafting station with custom craftable. And second, this integrated-model hood of mine was partly built around Fetch Water from its start, shortly after FW was released! One entire subhood is premised on water rations periodically being allotted to all locals. So it's pretty much impossible that I'd never have noticed before that my sim-owned businesses sometimes would have no customers for entire play sessions. All such businesses are played as part of my regular rotation, plus the economy setup forces sims to go and buy from sim-owned shops during their rotations as well. Although I'm a slow player and there's lots of families to get through, they're now almost finished with year 2. So it's definitely a bug new to my game...or takes time to show up, which is hard to believe also. But I'll mention it over at PBK as well, just in case anyone else has had the issue.
Edit to add: so far, what I can say from actual playtesting of your mod is that the token does indeed seem nice and stable, even with mods being yanked out and put back in. Thank you, thank you, thank you already for making a finance mod that does that.
#53
30th Jul 2018 at 8:56 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Well, it is failing when it tries to get shopping tokens, so if you have something that modifies shopping tokens that might be a place to start? Does that hack cause the error when it's the only CC installed? If not, you could try a 50/50 always leaving that hack in.
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#54
31st Jul 2018 at 3:58 PM
Posts: 236
Thanks: 1 in 1 Posts
I have a dumb question, dumb because I'm in the middle of rebuilding my downloads folder after a reinstall (Leaner! Cleaner! Shinier!) and can't test right now. For years I have used Simsky's Faster University Education with no conflicts. Does it change the same BCON and BHAV functions as Cyjon's Semester Changes? Do I need to use the Semester Changes version? Does it include compatibility with AncientHighways Term Paper Required mod?
#55
31st Jul 2018 at 5:41 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
I use that mod too, and none of the versions of this hack (or term paper required) should interfere with it. Semester changes might interfere with it, since I believe it does change semester length. I didn't notice any interference while testing, but that could just be because I have the faster uni mod set to set semesters to 48 hours (which is the same time scale semester changes uses).
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#56
31st Jul 2018 at 7:35 PM
Posts: 883
Kestrellyn, thanks for your continued willingness to help me with my strange mod conflict issue.
I've decided that for now, I'm going to just pull Fetch Water entirely from my game. Next year, when I'm able to play in a bit more leisurely way, I'll start troubleshooting with it again, in the ways you suggest, since it's required for a number of their sets. Meanwhile, since resource management is a big part of what's fun for me in the game, it's actually not inconsistent with my playstyle that a founding resource of a subhood might just disappear---I'll enjoy playing through the repercussions of that for now. (And in the meantime, I guess if that bug still crops up again, then I'll know I've got even more work to do when troubleshooting again next year.)
But this way, I'll be able to enjoy the game now and save what time and energy remains to me with it in order to do a good job of observing how your mod is working.
In that regard, one thought I've had is that it might be nice to be able to change the per-semester tuition cost of university on the fly. For my hood, I'm thinking flexibility to make it more expensive would be welcome in certain cases (teen decides to pursue a science-heavy uni education that might cost more; some subhood or another stops subsidizing it for their residents...maybe because they're no longer rich with a particular resource that made them so comfortable formerly, heh; family that only planned to send their kids to the cheaper uni suddenly hits a good chance card and can afford the more expensive school). And it might be pleasant to make that happen without having to withdraw the funds and then re-initialize for each sim involved.
But...I'm also open to that being more trouble to code for you than it's really worth, and obviously I already can manage to do it manually as I just described.
My adult borrower sim (the one who borrowed a sum from another sim to take his family on vacation) has paid off all of his loan now except the interest. I deliberately wanted him to remain in debt only due to the interest on the original principal; yours is the first mod ever to allow my sim-sim loans to periodically (and reliably) accrue interest (instead of only once, which is how Monique's mod did it, and to do so regardless of the family funds balance at the time---one downfall of Inge's Mortgage Shrubs was that they would only charge their fixed amount of interest every day when it wouldn't set the family funds to a negative balance). And yes, I can see there's no particular reason why your mod would differentiate an interest-only balance from any other type of loaned monies. I'm just reveling in being able to have them accrue interest, not to mention interest on interest, so much more realistically now!
(Edited to add: sorry I keep forgetting to "mute" my signature here. Also FYI, I should be getting to the YA households again soon. I'm also hoping to have somesim need to inherit somesim else's loan soon, thanks to RNG on military service deaths...and I've been exploring as well how I can use your mod to stand in for child support due. More on all that later.)
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
I've decided that for now, I'm going to just pull Fetch Water entirely from my game. Next year, when I'm able to play in a bit more leisurely way, I'll start troubleshooting with it again, in the ways you suggest, since it's required for a number of their sets. Meanwhile, since resource management is a big part of what's fun for me in the game, it's actually not inconsistent with my playstyle that a founding resource of a subhood might just disappear---I'll enjoy playing through the repercussions of that for now. (And in the meantime, I guess if that bug still crops up again, then I'll know I've got even more work to do when troubleshooting again next year.)
But this way, I'll be able to enjoy the game now and save what time and energy remains to me with it in order to do a good job of observing how your mod is working.
In that regard, one thought I've had is that it might be nice to be able to change the per-semester tuition cost of university on the fly. For my hood, I'm thinking flexibility to make it more expensive would be welcome in certain cases (teen decides to pursue a science-heavy uni education that might cost more; some subhood or another stops subsidizing it for their residents...maybe because they're no longer rich with a particular resource that made them so comfortable formerly, heh; family that only planned to send their kids to the cheaper uni suddenly hits a good chance card and can afford the more expensive school). And it might be pleasant to make that happen without having to withdraw the funds and then re-initialize for each sim involved.
But...I'm also open to that being more trouble to code for you than it's really worth, and obviously I already can manage to do it manually as I just described.
My adult borrower sim (the one who borrowed a sum from another sim to take his family on vacation) has paid off all of his loan now except the interest. I deliberately wanted him to remain in debt only due to the interest on the original principal; yours is the first mod ever to allow my sim-sim loans to periodically (and reliably) accrue interest (instead of only once, which is how Monique's mod did it, and to do so regardless of the family funds balance at the time---one downfall of Inge's Mortgage Shrubs was that they would only charge their fixed amount of interest every day when it wouldn't set the family funds to a negative balance). And yes, I can see there's no particular reason why your mod would differentiate an interest-only balance from any other type of loaned monies. I'm just reveling in being able to have them accrue interest, not to mention interest on interest, so much more realistically now!
(Edited to add: sorry I keep forgetting to "mute" my signature here. Also FYI, I should be getting to the YA households again soon. I'm also hoping to have somesim need to inherit somesim else's loan soon, thanks to RNG on military service deaths...and I've been exploring as well how I can use your mod to stand in for child support due. More on all that later.)
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
#57
31st Jul 2018 at 8:37 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
I'm glad everything seems to be working for you! It wouldn't be too hard to make it possible to change tuition rate, and I'm pretty sure I know how to make it stop charging interest on hotel lots, although I can't actually test that at the moment.
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#58
1st Aug 2018 at 12:04 AM
Last edited by croiduire : 1st Aug 2018 at 12:20 AM.
Posts: 236
Thanks: 1 in 1 Posts
Thank you for the checking on Simsky's Faster University Education mod for me, even though my initial question was sorely lacking in clarity. (I need to remember that nouns are good! )
For the record, I may have trouble writing intelligibly, but I do know better than to install two mods (Simsky's Faster University Education and Cyjon's Semester Changes) that do the exact same thing. I just needed to make sure that Simsky's mod didn't conflict with yours in the same way that Cyjon's does (or did before your latest revision). I appreciate your patience!
For the record, I may have trouble writing intelligibly, but I do know better than to install two mods (Simsky's Faster University Education and Cyjon's Semester Changes) that do the exact same thing. I just needed to make sure that Simsky's mod didn't conflict with yours in the same way that Cyjon's does (or did before your latest revision). I appreciate your patience!
#59
2nd Aug 2018 at 12:59 AM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
I finally found some time to actually look at the faster university education mod, and it appears that it does not actually modify any of the same resources as Semester Changes so it shouldn't conflict in the normal meaning of the term, but I believe Semester Changes will take priority in determining semester length, as that was my experience in testing.
#60
2nd Aug 2018 at 5:14 PM
Posts: 184
I finally got around to playing my uni hood, and seeing this mod in action. I love it and haven’t had any problems with it in my heavily modded game. It’s simplified the financial process of college for my sims tremendously, and I no longer have to worry about making sure my sims grants are deposited correctly. Thank you!
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#61
3rd Aug 2018 at 12:35 AM
Posts: 883
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
It wouldn't be too hard to make it possible to change tuition rate |
Yay! That would be very useful.
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
I'm pretty sure I know how to make it stop charging interest on hotel lots, although I can't actually test that at the moment. |
Oh, I should have said: it doesn't charge interest on hotel lots now, so you don't need to change anything if that's how you want it. (I haven't tried vacation homes, though I think one family's about to buy one.) My vacationing borrower came home with the same balance that he left with; the interest he accrued on his sim-sim loan occurred during the first couple days after he was back in the regular hood.
No further problems or oddities to report as of yet. My uni-in-the-main-hood "dorm" students both had it behave as expected this rotation, and it also accrued interest correctly for not only an adult student loan holder in the same household but also for the college funds of the three teens living on the lot (accompanying their older brother, who's their guardian because they're orphans).
I should belatedly clarify that the one time when I had that student in my test hood (Graal) who couldn't complete his semester, I also had recently installed Abortable At-Class, by Dizzy. Unfortunately, I didn't see whether the student actually left and was brought back---he may have gotten to the portal much faster than I expected, but my camera focus was elsewhere. However, what I can say is that it was not the first time he'd tried to go to the final; I canceled the first so he could have coffee.
Therefore it's also possible that the error only occurred because that hack was involved. And that happens to also have been the only situation in which I used the hack's functionality to cancel a Go to Class push that was for a final, not just normal class.
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
#62
3rd Aug 2018 at 12:57 AM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by natboopsie
Oh, I should have said: it doesn't charge interest on hotel lots now, so you don't need to change anything if that's how you want it. (I haven't tried vacation homes, though I think one family's about to buy one.) My vacationing borrower came home with the same balance that he left with; the interest he accrued on his sim-sim loan occurred during the first couple days after he was back in the regular hood. |
Oh, interesting, I guess Hotels fail the "Lot - Is Liveable?" test. I wonder if Vacation homes are considered Liveable. There's one lot zoning constant in that test that isn't labeled, so I don't know what it is. It could potentially be "Vacation home" zoning, or it could be something else. Are you sure your sim was at the hotel between 3 and 4 AM?
Quote:
I should belatedly clarify that the one time when I had that student in my test hood (Graal) who couldn't complete his semester, I also had recently installed Abortable At-Class, by Dizzy. Unfortunately, I didn't see whether the student actually left and was brought back---he may have gotten to the portal much faster than I expected, but my camera focus was elsewhere. However, what I can say is that it was not the first time he'd tried to go to the final; I canceled the first so he could have coffee. Therefore it's also possible that the error only occurred because that hack was involved. And that happens to also have been the only situation in which I used the hack's functionality to cancel a Go to Class push that was for a final, not just normal class. |
Without looking at that hack, I believe this is probably just a coincidence. Making the action cancellable shouldn't affect the function that is run at the end of the semester, and the fact that deleting the token fixed it indicates that there was some corruption of the token that happened.
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#63
3rd Aug 2018 at 2:44 PM
Posts: 883
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
Oh, interesting, I guess Hotels fail the "Lot - Is Liveable?" test. I wonder if Vacation homes are considered Liveable. There's one lot zoning constant in that test that isn't labeled, so I don't know what it is. It could potentially be "Vacation home" zoning, or it could be something else. Are you sure your sim was at the hotel between 3 and 4 AM? |
Yes, I am. My households always go for 7 days, though sometimes I send them home after 5 or so. And I do often have them on community lots during the vacation, but I am sure that this household spent at least 2 overnights at the hotel. However, I don't mind checking by sending another group; more evidence is always better. And it would be cool to send a different type of borrower or fund owner. I'll see if I can find a household with a good variety to send, or perhaps my uni dorm can go once someone else graduates and ages up with a balance one way or the other (and doesn't yet have to leave campus, thanks to Lamare's YA mod suite).
Ah, yeah, I'd meant to tell you a little more about general hotel and vacation home lot behavior since I think you said you don't have BV installed; glad you reminded me. I'll spoiler all that since it's definitely OT.
Sims don't age on either kind, but on vacation home lots, the newspaper and mail (including MogHughson's greeting cards and restaurant coupons) are delivered as usual, though carpool and bills do not arrive. Sims' inventories are also accessible without mods (the sole location type in any vacation subhood where that's true). And they can throw normal house parties at vacation homes, though they can only invite sims local to the vacation subhood. (I can't recall whether this includes other playables currently on vacation there; haven't had a party-loving sim own a vacation home in a while, though come to think of it, there is such a family that could afford one, so I might do that and jog my memory.)
I have also had sims find jobs at their vacation homes; however, at that time I had Squinge's Find Job Any Lot installed, so it's hard to say whether that's vanilla behavior. Though since the paper is delivered anyway (my sims usually use the computer for job hunting), maybe so. I'll check on that too after that above family buys and visits their vacation home, partly because now I want to know.
I have often wondered, in my non-modder way, whether hotel lots are some sort of weird hybrid for the game. For example, my hack to prevent sims from serving food they cook on community lots doesn't work on hotel lots, so at cabin- or campground-style "hotels" with grills, I always have to cancel that. Also, despite the presence of hotel doors and unlike the case of objects behind apartment doors beyond which playables have not been invited by the townie resident, playables will regularly try and use objects that exist inside hotel rooms that they are not checked into. It's obvious because you get a popup informing you that they can't use objects in a room until they check in, and it's annoying because the popup even happens when your playable is autonomously attempting to do so, which often means a quick series of popups when they really want something. And it's clearly a behavior EAxis didn't otherwise do anything about, since even pregnant sims (whose pregnancy will not otherwise progress while anywhere in a vacation subhood) will do it when picking a toilet to go and be sick in. (Ah, the joys of sims getting pregnant right at the start of their honeymoons, thereby entering a first trimester that won't end until they go home...)
Hotels and dorms aren't populated in the same way, either. The Uni EP coding's fairly robust in terms of keeping the dorms fully populated. Hotels, not so much; in fact, if you leave the hotel lot at any time before it starts populating with tourists (which can take the better part of a day before it even starts in some games, mine often included), it is unlikely to ever finish the process of filling all the rooms. However, when editing an unoccupied hotel lot, you use the exact same cheat code as for editing dorms if you want to add/remove walls and such. And as with dormies, NPC tourists have a hard time seeing items supposedly in their rooms; instead, they often crowd whatever public bathroom facilities are on the hotel lot, even when they're staying in a normal hotel where every room has its own facilities.
(Tourists are mostly like dormies but arrive in pseudofamily groups, one for every hotel door on the lot [edit to clarify: every hotel door not claimed by your playables], though I don't know how the game calculates how many to send on campground lots. Also like dormies, they continue to exist, so can come to populate other hotels you check playables into, and will add to their individual memories once generated. Minor irritant about tourist "families": each such group shares the same last name, but they have no family ties of any kind actually assigned by the game, so it's frequent that unexpected/unorthodox romances appear among their members. So a lot of elder-adult romances and minimal elder grandparent behavior, despite child tourists often being generated in the same "family".)
Since babies and toddlers cannot go on vacation in an unmodded game, I'm guessing that's one of the reasons sims don't age while on vacation---so they can't give birth there.
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
Without looking at that hack, I believe this is probably just a coincidence. Making the action cancellable shouldn't affect the function that is run at the end of the semester, and the fact that deleting the token fixed it indicates that there was some corruption of the token that happened. |
Good, I'm glad it didn't end up being info that changed the issue completely, since I still should have mentioned it earlier! Still watching for it.
#64
3rd Aug 2018 at 8:28 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Hmm, maybe Lamare can make it possible to age, advance pregnancies, and have babies on vacation lots and hotels? I would definitely be interested in that if I do wind up installing BV. The not-aging thing really wouldn't work well with my rotation.
#65
4th Aug 2018 at 10:08 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Ok, it's now possible to change total education cost without deleting the token first.
#66
5th Aug 2018 at 6:34 PM
Posts: 883
Yay, thank you!
I'm thinking about writing up a run-through (maybe to start my journal here?) for how I use this mod after I've played as much as I can with it---because I seem to be coming up with lots of, er, alternative uses for it. (The possibilities of which I remain so grateful to you for!!) Will keep you posted. I'm not willing to tear myself away from the game to do it, but I'll have months of time after this when I won't be near my gaming setup anyway.
It would be interesting if Lamare could/would make what you mention above, though honestly I don't think I'd ever use it. I like having vacations be extended time with a particular family, kind of like an extra-long (and possibly much more expensive) community lot visit. In fact, I've often wished that it could be possible that nothing which happens on vacation would train their future rolled wants, unlike all "real hood" play. Sadly, that's currently not the case (and I don't know of any mods even close to that!).
Not all my sims ever go on vacation, and for a few I make a point of sending them home fast (sometimes after 1 night) if I didn't want the extra time with them but didn't mind indulging their want/siphoning off extra funds. Plus, choosing which households go at the same time can create a mini temporary hood, since they only meet other vacationing playables while out and about, plus vacation locals and tourists.
(Though unfortunately, if you play more than one household while there, you'll see that Maxis failed to restrict all the other households there to only the sims who supposedly went on vacation. So if the Smiths are on vacation as a family and the Parkers, who are living with her parents, are simultaneously on their honeymoon, when you play the Smiths, you'll meet the Parker parents vacationing as well, even though when the Parkers are played again the parents supposedly aren't there. Plays havoc with some vacation memories, since afterward, all the Parkers can recall doing autonomous vacation-only activities, including meeting vacation locals---since they did, even though that should've been impossible for all but the honeymooning couple.)
I also try to have unique, useful items only available in vacation hoods. For instance, my mountain vacation hood (for which I use Jawusa's terrific Winter Wonderland from MTS) is the only source in my entire hood for PBK trees that can be chopped for firewood. Thanks to a PBK mod, all fireplaces throughout my hood require such firewood, so enterprising sims on mountain vacations will spend time chopping a tree or two and then splitting logs to sell (or use!) when they get back. This is another way in which vacations in my hood can (usefully to me) widen the gap between the kinds of opportunities that my have and have-not families can access.
I'm thinking about writing up a run-through (maybe to start my journal here?) for how I use this mod after I've played as much as I can with it---because I seem to be coming up with lots of, er, alternative uses for it. (The possibilities of which I remain so grateful to you for!!) Will keep you posted. I'm not willing to tear myself away from the game to do it, but I'll have months of time after this when I won't be near my gaming setup anyway.
It would be interesting if Lamare could/would make what you mention above, though honestly I don't think I'd ever use it. I like having vacations be extended time with a particular family, kind of like an extra-long (and possibly much more expensive) community lot visit. In fact, I've often wished that it could be possible that nothing which happens on vacation would train their future rolled wants, unlike all "real hood" play. Sadly, that's currently not the case (and I don't know of any mods even close to that!).
Not all my sims ever go on vacation, and for a few I make a point of sending them home fast (sometimes after 1 night) if I didn't want the extra time with them but didn't mind indulging their want/siphoning off extra funds. Plus, choosing which households go at the same time can create a mini temporary hood, since they only meet other vacationing playables while out and about, plus vacation locals and tourists.
(Though unfortunately, if you play more than one household while there, you'll see that Maxis failed to restrict all the other households there to only the sims who supposedly went on vacation. So if the Smiths are on vacation as a family and the Parkers, who are living with her parents, are simultaneously on their honeymoon, when you play the Smiths, you'll meet the Parker parents vacationing as well, even though when the Parkers are played again the parents supposedly aren't there. Plays havoc with some vacation memories, since afterward, all the Parkers can recall doing autonomous vacation-only activities, including meeting vacation locals---since they did, even though that should've been impossible for all but the honeymooning couple.)
I also try to have unique, useful items only available in vacation hoods. For instance, my mountain vacation hood (for which I use Jawusa's terrific Winter Wonderland from MTS) is the only source in my entire hood for PBK trees that can be chopped for firewood. Thanks to a PBK mod, all fireplaces throughout my hood require such firewood, so enterprising sims on mountain vacations will spend time chopping a tree or two and then splitting logs to sell (or use!) when they get back. This is another way in which vacations in my hood can (usefully to me) widen the gap between the kinds of opportunities that my have and have-not families can access.
#67
19th Aug 2018 at 7:08 PM
Posts: 286
What happens if a YA graduates with a positive balance in their college fund (ie they put in/gained in interest more than the total cost of their education)?
♫Cuz I don't have a home in this life, I have to roam. Got nowhere to lay my head, so I'll follow you instead, and set my gaze on the place I'm going to. Til then I'm homeless, but I'll roam with you...♫
My Simblr: http://natteryaktoad.tumblr.com
♫Cuz I don't have a home in this life, I have to roam. Got nowhere to lay my head, so I'll follow you instead, and set my gaze on the place I'm going to. Til then I'm homeless, but I'll roam with you...♫
My Simblr: http://natteryaktoad.tumblr.com
#68
19th Aug 2018 at 10:25 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Then they will maintain that positive balance as an adult. They can withdraw it whenever they like, or leave it in there to accumulate more interest. However, they won't be able to add more to the fund once they graduate.
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#69
31st Aug 2018 at 9:03 PM
Posts: 883
Long time no write, and I'm sorry, kestrellyn; life got much busier, much faster, than I anticipated. But I've squeezed in a bit of time to escape play here and there, and I've certainly not forgotten you or this mod. Now finally, finally, this weekend (specifically, Saturday or Monday), I should have time to write up all my findings from my play (and paste them, ha) here.
The highlight, which just happened yesterday, is that I saw that corrupted-token bug again! I've never been so excited to spot a bug before, heh. I captured the stack trace (plus, I did a few iterations of token settings/presence once I found it to see if it changed the stack trace any [not that I'd know, but you will, I'm sure], in case that was helpful; I'll describe in detail when I post the various stack traces generated, or just will type the description of each into the file for each). So I'll have that for you also when I finally write. I'd be so happy if that would help you quash that bug.
@NatteryakToad Some of my good-with-money sims have been taking advantage of that, because although others of my sims have access to interest-earning savings vehicles (Monique's computer's saving accounts), not all are "allowed to" (headcanon). So those sims sell all teen and YA date gifts, for example, and stash all that and any other money they can in their "college funds" to take advantage of that window of time, the only time in their lives they will be able to open an interest-paying account. Of course, since they're good with money, they won't touch that stash until they really need it---like to help buy their first home (most of my sims don't buy their first homes until they've lived with family or roommates for a while after uni anyway; my hood is very expensive to live in). If they have, say, a YA fiance(e) who graduates sometime after they do, that means they may also be able to stash some of their first-job earnings in that person's account. Of course, funds only earn interest after the owner is no longer a YA, but in the case of these sims who'd never earn interest otherwise, several days or a couple weeks worth of interest is far better than none. (I use longer lifespans.)
Similarly, some of my sim parents who (headcanon, again) are "good with money" but also don't have access to personal savings accounts that pay interest will stash excess family funds in their children's college funds until the kids start uni. They can withdraw those funds (as legal custodians of their minor child) to help the family out, or if the family fortunes go well, can leave them as a "trust fund" for those kids.
All this is inspired by what's possible with various tax-sheltered savings vehicles available under the US tax code (though it's sort of a frankensteining of a few different options), so I don't see it as unrealistic.
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
The highlight, which just happened yesterday, is that I saw that corrupted-token bug again! I've never been so excited to spot a bug before, heh. I captured the stack trace (plus, I did a few iterations of token settings/presence once I found it to see if it changed the stack trace any [not that I'd know, but you will, I'm sure], in case that was helpful; I'll describe in detail when I post the various stack traces generated, or just will type the description of each into the file for each). So I'll have that for you also when I finally write. I'd be so happy if that would help you quash that bug.
Quote: Originally posted by NatteryakToad
What happens if a YA graduates with a positive balance in their college fund (ie they put in/gained in interest more than the total cost of their education)? |
@NatteryakToad Some of my good-with-money sims have been taking advantage of that, because although others of my sims have access to interest-earning savings vehicles (Monique's computer's saving accounts), not all are "allowed to" (headcanon). So those sims sell all teen and YA date gifts, for example, and stash all that and any other money they can in their "college funds" to take advantage of that window of time, the only time in their lives they will be able to open an interest-paying account. Of course, since they're good with money, they won't touch that stash until they really need it---like to help buy their first home (most of my sims don't buy their first homes until they've lived with family or roommates for a while after uni anyway; my hood is very expensive to live in). If they have, say, a YA fiance(e) who graduates sometime after they do, that means they may also be able to stash some of their first-job earnings in that person's account. Of course, funds only earn interest after the owner is no longer a YA, but in the case of these sims who'd never earn interest otherwise, several days or a couple weeks worth of interest is far better than none. (I use longer lifespans.)
Similarly, some of my sim parents who (headcanon, again) are "good with money" but also don't have access to personal savings accounts that pay interest will stash excess family funds in their children's college funds until the kids start uni. They can withdraw those funds (as legal custodians of their minor child) to help the family out, or if the family fortunes go well, can leave them as a "trust fund" for those kids.
All this is inspired by what's possible with various tax-sheltered savings vehicles available under the US tax code (though it's sort of a frankensteining of a few different options), so I don't see it as unrealistic.
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
#70
31st Aug 2018 at 10:55 PM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Great, looking forward to your report! Hooray for long weekends!
Forum Resident
#71
4th Sep 2018 at 5:41 PM
Last edited by natboopsie : 4th Sep 2018 at 5:43 PM.
Reason: clarity
Posts: 883
As usual, I'm getting back here later still than I had thought! (Long weekends are a mixed blessing that way, heh.) But as promised, I've brought the stack traces and details from my most recent spot of that can't-finish-the-semester bug.
I've written up the details and included them just before each stack trace; the stack traces themselves are both in the same file, the PoorSally one attached. I thought it might be easier to use them that way. So, there are two error logs included in the attached file, each for a different but failed try of getting Sally to finish the semester. I also succeeded in the end at getting her to complete the semester, with a new token re-added; I describe that trial (C) at the end of the file.
First, some overall notes about the background of the main-hood uni student, Sally:
Sally had had a small college fund (savings) balance when she and her adult fiance and his teen sisters moved into this main-hood house after "picking her up" (briefly moving into, just to fetch her) from her faux dorm (a main-hood lot set up to approximate a dorm for my main-hood uni students). She had never had any apparent token problems while at the "dorm."
After moving into this private-residential lot in the main hood (so she has never lived in the uni subhood, only ever attended uni from the main hood), she went to one final before this problematic one. She failed that one, putting her on AP and giving her a small loan balance since it also blew through the last of her meager college fund.
After she went on AP and accrued her initial loan balance, her fiance needed to refinance the sim-to-sim loan he had taken in order to afford their new house (he was able to get more favorable terms from a different sim lender). To arrange that, I had them pay off her very small new loan balance (so that it would not ultimately be "re"paid to the sponsor of his loan, since that sponsor had had nothing to do with Sally's uni indebtedness), then had her inherit his loan, then had him take out the new loan from his new playable lender, then used the borrowed money to pay off his old loan (the one Sally was now holding).
Finally, I cleared the sponsor (her fiance's former sim lender) from Sally's token (by opening the sponsor-selection dialogue and then canceling it without selecting one), because again that sim would have nothing to do with her future tuition indebtedness.
That juggling act seemed at the time to go off without a hitch: the fiance now had a new lender plus the indebtedness I needed him to have, and to the correct lender sim. Sally had a 0 balance herself, albeit now with a token that had been through quite a lot! However in hindsight, I wonder whether all that use made her token more likely to go bad.
(Discrepancies in the length of Sally's finals attempts that might bear mentioning: Sally was only being kept away for an hour, each failed trial after A (I also re-tried A and re-tried B without changing anything, though I did not bother to capture the logs when they continued to fail). On the successful trial, C, she was kept a full 2 hours. If it wasn't a coincidence, I thought that seemed to indicate that the game was already affected by the (apparently) corrupted token, even before sending her back. However, that hypothesis falls down because the first time she went to the final was the failure that started me down the path of getting all these logs generated, and she was properly kept for 2 hours that time also.)
To jog your memory, the first and only other time a YA of mine had this bug (can't finish the semester), it was a uni-subhood YA, Graal. However, his token had not had nearly the amount of processing that Sally's had in the past; it was just set-and-forget as far as I was concerned. You have never seen the stack trace for Graal because, well, I panicked and never generated one, only deleted his token and got him correctly progressed that way.
Anyway, in all my other recent play in the main and uni subhoods involving the tuition tokens, there were not surprises other than this one. Both my subhood and main-hood unis had several new graduates each, and all went as expected: accounts or family funds were accurately credited, and no other students besides Sally had any trouble finishing their semesters. Yay!
I didn't pay careful attention to the accrual of interest in day-to-day play, but my pre-YA sims all seem to be having it credited as I expect. Same with interest accruing on sim-to-sim loans as well as on student loans with no payee (which I consider to be direct from the government): no problems that I have noticed.
Regarding vacation subhoods, I further noticed that on campground and hotel lots, no interest is accrued by borrowers (though I only have had the opportunity to observe this in the case of sim-to-sim loans). However, on vacation home lots, interest does accrue. So if there's a way to keep it so that interest never accrues in a vacation hood no matter the kind of lot being used as the temporary home, that would be great!
In case you would find more general observations about vacation subhood lots useful...
---Hotel lots are not like either main-hood residences or main-hood community lots, because you can visit them with an active vacationing household, as long as they are not occupied at that time by a playable family. However, when visited, no tourists will be present (and I haven't stayed long enough to see whether they come later), and if you try to check in so you can use a room, you will get a popup telling you that you have to first check out from your other lodging (and apparently have to go back there to do it). But you can eat at the in-house restaurant, swim in the ocean or pool, get a massage from the house masseur/masseuse, etc.
---Campgrounds appear to be further different from actual hotels: other playables will visit campgrounds autonomously when you are checked in, even though they will never visit hotels you have checked into.
---TJ's Smart Beds mod works on vacation home lots, but not elsewhere in a vacation subhood. It can't handle tents anyway (so, doesn't work on campgrounds), but even on hotel lots, the matter of bed ownership simply never kicks in; sims must be told each time where to sleep, or they will just choose any convenient bed---including ones in rooms that tourist families are already checked into. (And in that case, a popup appears to let you know they can't access stuff in rooms they haven't checked into.)
Last but not least, about smaller increments.
We've talked about this matter before; I respect your reasoning regarding not making smaller increments for student loans. However, I do wonder if it would be possible to allow smaller amounts for sim to sim loans.
For example, it's awkward in my hood to have to borrow a $10K minimum from another sim; fewer than 10% of my households would have that cash routinely available, and even those that do may not have it available in family funds when another sim wants to borrow (the ones who are "good with money" are storing it in cc banking systems, and the ones who aren't good with money just aren't likely to accumulate that much for at least a couple of simyears after purchasing a home). This is especially the case because Cyjon's Bigger Bills goes to the next billing tier for cash when you have more than $10,000 showing in family funds, so none of my sims who handle money well would ever knowingly keep that much available; and of course, those are the ones most likely to be able and willing to loan. And, because it's expensive to live in my hood, sims often can benefit quite a lot from a loan of $3K or so.
What I've been doing while playing borrowing households is using the familyfunds cheat to add enough money to their lender's household that they can lend the $10K minimum even when, say, they only are meant to loan $3K. In such a case, the borrower immediately pays the first $7K back (because they can pay in $1000 increments, just can't borrow that little) and I use familyfunds again to remove from the lender whatever money I had to artificially add to their funds to start the whole process.
That cumbersome workaround is effective, but if it's possible and not too much trouble, it would be even nicer if sim-sim borrowing could be done in the same increments that they can already use to repay loans ($1000 minimum). On the other hand, I understand that the $10,000 base figure (and multiples) is what your token-initialization is based upon, so perhaps it is not so easy to change that, especially just for one kind of lending.
I've written up the details and included them just before each stack trace; the stack traces themselves are both in the same file, the PoorSally one attached. I thought it might be easier to use them that way. So, there are two error logs included in the attached file, each for a different but failed try of getting Sally to finish the semester. I also succeeded in the end at getting her to complete the semester, with a new token re-added; I describe that trial (C) at the end of the file.
First, some overall notes about the background of the main-hood uni student, Sally:
Sally had had a small college fund (savings) balance when she and her adult fiance and his teen sisters moved into this main-hood house after "picking her up" (briefly moving into, just to fetch her) from her faux dorm (a main-hood lot set up to approximate a dorm for my main-hood uni students). She had never had any apparent token problems while at the "dorm."
After moving into this private-residential lot in the main hood (so she has never lived in the uni subhood, only ever attended uni from the main hood), she went to one final before this problematic one. She failed that one, putting her on AP and giving her a small loan balance since it also blew through the last of her meager college fund.
After she went on AP and accrued her initial loan balance, her fiance needed to refinance the sim-to-sim loan he had taken in order to afford their new house (he was able to get more favorable terms from a different sim lender). To arrange that, I had them pay off her very small new loan balance (so that it would not ultimately be "re"paid to the sponsor of his loan, since that sponsor had had nothing to do with Sally's uni indebtedness), then had her inherit his loan, then had him take out the new loan from his new playable lender, then used the borrowed money to pay off his old loan (the one Sally was now holding).
Finally, I cleared the sponsor (her fiance's former sim lender) from Sally's token (by opening the sponsor-selection dialogue and then canceling it without selecting one), because again that sim would have nothing to do with her future tuition indebtedness.
That juggling act seemed at the time to go off without a hitch: the fiance now had a new lender plus the indebtedness I needed him to have, and to the correct lender sim. Sally had a 0 balance herself, albeit now with a token that had been through quite a lot! However in hindsight, I wonder whether all that use made her token more likely to go bad.
(Discrepancies in the length of Sally's finals attempts that might bear mentioning: Sally was only being kept away for an hour, each failed trial after A (I also re-tried A and re-tried B without changing anything, though I did not bother to capture the logs when they continued to fail). On the successful trial, C, she was kept a full 2 hours. If it wasn't a coincidence, I thought that seemed to indicate that the game was already affected by the (apparently) corrupted token, even before sending her back. However, that hypothesis falls down because the first time she went to the final was the failure that started me down the path of getting all these logs generated, and she was properly kept for 2 hours that time also.)
To jog your memory, the first and only other time a YA of mine had this bug (can't finish the semester), it was a uni-subhood YA, Graal. However, his token had not had nearly the amount of processing that Sally's had in the past; it was just set-and-forget as far as I was concerned. You have never seen the stack trace for Graal because, well, I panicked and never generated one, only deleted his token and got him correctly progressed that way.
Anyway, in all my other recent play in the main and uni subhoods involving the tuition tokens, there were not surprises other than this one. Both my subhood and main-hood unis had several new graduates each, and all went as expected: accounts or family funds were accurately credited, and no other students besides Sally had any trouble finishing their semesters. Yay!
I didn't pay careful attention to the accrual of interest in day-to-day play, but my pre-YA sims all seem to be having it credited as I expect. Same with interest accruing on sim-to-sim loans as well as on student loans with no payee (which I consider to be direct from the government): no problems that I have noticed.
Regarding vacation subhoods, I further noticed that on campground and hotel lots, no interest is accrued by borrowers (though I only have had the opportunity to observe this in the case of sim-to-sim loans). However, on vacation home lots, interest does accrue. So if there's a way to keep it so that interest never accrues in a vacation hood no matter the kind of lot being used as the temporary home, that would be great!
In case you would find more general observations about vacation subhood lots useful...
---Hotel lots are not like either main-hood residences or main-hood community lots, because you can visit them with an active vacationing household, as long as they are not occupied at that time by a playable family. However, when visited, no tourists will be present (and I haven't stayed long enough to see whether they come later), and if you try to check in so you can use a room, you will get a popup telling you that you have to first check out from your other lodging (and apparently have to go back there to do it). But you can eat at the in-house restaurant, swim in the ocean or pool, get a massage from the house masseur/masseuse, etc.
---Campgrounds appear to be further different from actual hotels: other playables will visit campgrounds autonomously when you are checked in, even though they will never visit hotels you have checked into.
---TJ's Smart Beds mod works on vacation home lots, but not elsewhere in a vacation subhood. It can't handle tents anyway (so, doesn't work on campgrounds), but even on hotel lots, the matter of bed ownership simply never kicks in; sims must be told each time where to sleep, or they will just choose any convenient bed---including ones in rooms that tourist families are already checked into. (And in that case, a popup appears to let you know they can't access stuff in rooms they haven't checked into.)
Last but not least, about smaller increments.
We've talked about this matter before; I respect your reasoning regarding not making smaller increments for student loans. However, I do wonder if it would be possible to allow smaller amounts for sim to sim loans.
For example, it's awkward in my hood to have to borrow a $10K minimum from another sim; fewer than 10% of my households would have that cash routinely available, and even those that do may not have it available in family funds when another sim wants to borrow (the ones who are "good with money" are storing it in cc banking systems, and the ones who aren't good with money just aren't likely to accumulate that much for at least a couple of simyears after purchasing a home). This is especially the case because Cyjon's Bigger Bills goes to the next billing tier for cash when you have more than $10,000 showing in family funds, so none of my sims who handle money well would ever knowingly keep that much available; and of course, those are the ones most likely to be able and willing to loan. And, because it's expensive to live in my hood, sims often can benefit quite a lot from a loan of $3K or so.
What I've been doing while playing borrowing households is using the familyfunds cheat to add enough money to their lender's household that they can lend the $10K minimum even when, say, they only are meant to loan $3K. In such a case, the borrower immediately pays the first $7K back (because they can pay in $1000 increments, just can't borrow that little) and I use familyfunds again to remove from the lender whatever money I had to artificially add to their funds to start the whole process.
That cumbersome workaround is effective, but if it's possible and not too much trouble, it would be even nicer if sim-sim borrowing could be done in the same increments that they can already use to repay loans ($1000 minimum). On the other hand, I understand that the $10,000 base figure (and multiples) is what your token-initialization is based upon, so perhaps it is not so easy to change that, especially just for one kind of lending.
Attached files:
PoorSally.txt (7.0 KB, 8 downloads) |
#72
5th Sep 2018 at 1:42 AM
Last edited by kestrellyn : 5th Sep 2018 at 2:01 AM.
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Well, no token corruption, it was just trying to pay the payee the 0 simoleons of grant money your sim received, which is silly, but normally harmless, except that there being no payee or sponsor set caused the function to return false, which I for some reason forgot wasn't an error when I was writing the grant-handling function. Anyway, that's fixed now, and it also catches the situation of there being no grant money, so that it doesn't spawn a silly notification telling you that 0 simoleons went to pay student loans or whatever. Everything you did with the token was totally fine, the only thing that caused the problem was unsetting the payee and sponsor, which shouldn't have.
Regarding loaning smaller amounts - would it work to have an option to initialize with 0 simoleons, at which point you can set a sponsor or payee manually and borrow in increments of 1000 from the existing menu as you prefer?
Also, I think I found a way to ban interest from vacation hoods entirely without changing EP requirements, but I can't test it since I haven't actually installed BV yet. Can you try it out and tell me if it works?
Regarding loaning smaller amounts - would it work to have an option to initialize with 0 simoleons, at which point you can set a sponsor or payee manually and borrow in increments of 1000 from the existing menu as you prefer?
Also, I think I found a way to ban interest from vacation hoods entirely without changing EP requirements, but I can't test it since I haven't actually installed BV yet. Can you try it out and tell me if it works?
Forum Resident
#73
5th Sep 2018 at 12:38 PM
Posts: 883
Thank you for your explanation of what was going wrong with the tokens! Very interesting, and I'm glad it was fixable! It's important to me to be able to switch to different payees and sponsors as refinancing (and perhaps later, political maneuvering) occurs.
Oh, yes, initializing with 0 simoleons would be fantastic! I don't know if that would make redundant the bit where you can choose to make it a student loan or a loan from another sim...on the other hand, I suppose even with that, it's possible some folks might want to be able to initialize student loans at 0 anyway so they at least know that's what they were thinking for that sim---especially now that we can change the initialization amount on the fly.
I will be delighted to test the vacation-hood interest accrual in the current version! I regret to say it will have to be just one family, rushed through one vacation, but I can take them to their vacation home for a night, ensure they're on a community lot around 3 and 4 am, and also check them into a hotel to spend those late hours on another night. (You can check into a hotel even when you own a vacation home, and even when you have been to the vacation home during the trip.)
So I'll post again in a day or so to let you know what happened with that test!
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
Oh, yes, initializing with 0 simoleons would be fantastic! I don't know if that would make redundant the bit where you can choose to make it a student loan or a loan from another sim...on the other hand, I suppose even with that, it's possible some folks might want to be able to initialize student loans at 0 anyway so they at least know that's what they were thinking for that sim---especially now that we can change the initialization amount on the fly.
I will be delighted to test the vacation-hood interest accrual in the current version! I regret to say it will have to be just one family, rushed through one vacation, but I can take them to their vacation home for a night, ensure they're on a community lot around 3 and 4 am, and also check them into a hotel to spend those late hours on another night. (You can check into a hotel even when you own a vacation home, and even when you have been to the vacation home during the trip.)
So I'll post again in a day or so to let you know what happened with that test!
*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
#74
6th Sep 2018 at 1:53 AM
Posts: 3,765
Thanks: 9619 in 44 Posts
Ok, it's now possible to initialize with 0 simoleons. No worries about the dialogs, it simply skips those in that case.
Forum Resident
#75
7th Sep 2018 at 12:13 AM
Posts: 883
Vacation-hood test results: the change works! My vacationing couple spent 2 nights at their vacation home, 1 night on a community lot (massages helped keep their needs up) and 1 night at a hotel. They came home with her (the only one I gave a token to; she had previously graduated main-hood uni before I had your mod at all, so I initialized her first token prior to sending them away---he's never had one at all, since he never went to college and that all happened before this mod too) having the exact same loan balance as before. Hurray!
FYI, I did not test with payees and sponsors; she had neither.
I really appreciate how you think of all these details. Sadly, I've now completely run out of time to play, but I'll look forward to checking out that new feature when I can once more! And in the intervening months, as I said, I probably will write up and publish some thoughts on how I've been using your mod for all sorts of financial purposes. I think it needs more exposure. Thanks for being so willing to tweak it!
FYI, I did not test with payees and sponsors; she had neither.
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
Ok, it's now possible to initialize with 0 simoleons. No worries about the dialogs, it simply skips those in that case. |
I really appreciate how you think of all these details. Sadly, I've now completely run out of time to play, but I'll look forward to checking out that new feature when I can once more! And in the intervening months, as I said, I probably will write up and publish some thoughts on how I've been using your mod for all sorts of financial purposes. I think it needs more exposure. Thanks for being so willing to tweak it!
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