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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Oct 2018 at 6:15 PM

This user has the following games installed:

Sims 2, University, Nightlife, Open for Business, Pets, Seasons, Bon Voyage, Free Time, Apartment Life
Default Can BO's mods CAUSE Super Duper Hug Bug?
Please let me start off with saying that I have been playing Sims 2 on an off since the day it was released and have never encountered the Super (Duper?) Hug Bug before now and so I might be misunderstanding the mechanics here... But here we go. I am giving a full run down of what happened just to be sure I am giving all the info, sorry if there is too much detail

- About a month or 2 ago I installed Sims 2 Ultimate Collection on my laptop. Completely clean install, never had Sims 2 on this installation of Windows before
- All was nice and dandy and I had some CC saved from some time ago, which included hair, clothes, furniture, etc. Of the "dangerous" items I only had 3 lots, no sims, not even mods
- I played for a couple of weeks with the lots installed, but I never used them and finally decided that I don't care for those and removed them from my game. I didn't get the "Super Duper Hug" interaction upon doing so, I also didn't see anyone mentioning it in the comments to the lots
- While playing with my family, I came to the point where I had 4 Sims and 5 pets and my Sims had a wish for one more child so I thought why not. The 4 Sims(2 parents, 2 kids) went on a holiday and the mother got pregnant the day before the holiday ended. They arrived at home on Sunday, she was throwing up all day and had a bump before she had to go to work on Monday, which obviously meant her being put on maternity leave. On Tuesday one of the pets died of old age and everyone in the family wanted her resurrected, so I called up Grim Reaper and made an offering... and the pet comes back as a zombie. That was unacceptable to me and I quit without saving.
- After I quit I thought "hey, I'd love her to have twins". I wasn't willing to give up any of the pets(as evidenced by the resurrection fiasco) so I went looking for a mod to raise my house limit and came across a thread from this forum saying BoilingOil's Unlimited Sims is the best way to go as it allows for natural twins. So I downloaded that and put it in my downloads folder. Quick note: up until that moment the only mods I had were "Pregnant Sims Wear Any Outfit" and "Buy Maternity Clothes At Shops".
- I load the game and the last time it was saved was Sunday evening. I saw the female go to throw up once and then I kind of got distracted and didn't see what she was up to up until Monday morning when she actually went to work. I thought "huh, that's weird, she should be pregnant by now", but thought maybe I forgot and she got the belly Tuesday morning instead. Tuesday rolls around and she goes to work, the pet dies again, gets resurrected correctly, but I start to get suspicious. I play until Friday and there's no bump or baby in sight, she can't change into maternity clothes and there is no "try for baby" option anymore. I thought "well, I actually wasn't happy with how this family turned out up until now so I might as well start a new one either way"
- Around that time I added the "NoSimLoaded" mod to the game because everyone quoted it as an essential. Before that moment I haven't even heard of the hug bug, but thought I'd add it just in case.
- I start a new family by making a couple in university. At first they lived in dorms, then moved to their own place. Everything seems to work fine up until they need to graduate. Once their 72 hours expire, the game gives the "It's time to return to real life" message for both and nothing happens. I try the "Return to Riverside" option on the phone, it asks if I am sure, I say yes, nothing happens. I do an online search and see suggestions that moving to another lot might help, so I log in to do just that and move them back to the dorms(this was the first time that I got the NoSimLoaded error, I try clicking reset it pops back up, I click delete it goes away, same thing happens every time I load the game back up). My sims still can't move out. I throw a graduation party, the car comes to pick the sim up, they drive away and return immediately. I went to search for answers online and saw the "FFS "Batbox" Lot Debugger v2.0" listed as something that could deal with stuck college move outs, so I add that to my mods list. Load the game, get a NoSimLoaded error, but the text is slightly different(don't remember the details now, just know it wasn't the same ). I throw a graduation party and finally the first sim drives away. I throw another graduation party for the second sim, they drive away and I get the "This was the last playable sim" window, I go to save and the option isn't there. I thought "huh, this is weird, worked before", but decide to add another Sim to the family so someone's left behind in hopes that this will allow me to save - it doesn't. I move them to another lot, same thing, can't save. I start thinking back to what I've done recently, if there was any potentially dangerous CC and realise that the only thing I can think of is the NoSimLoaded. I remove it from my downloads, load the game, move the sims to another lot just in case and bam, they are both picked up immediately. Here I go thinking my problem is solved.
- I play with the new family for maybe a week and it all was going fine, though I did see the SuperDuperHug interaction now, but I thought it was part of the BatBox as I didn't read about it and didn't think much of it. And now yesterday I sent them on a holiday and lo and beyond they start hugging everyone in sight.... Which is when I got suspicious of the SuperDuperHug interaction and discovered that it meant I have the bug!
- I haven't added any new lots to the game, the only cc I downloaded in the meanwhile was hair, clothes, furniture and makeup, I don't have any lots, sims or other social mods.

Is it possible that BOs mods CAUSED the bug? I know it sounds wild but I really couldn't think of anything else. I am also torn right now because I want the bug gone, but if NoSimLoaded was the reason my sims couldn't move out of college before(and it would certainly seem so as it was fixed the moment I removed it) I am concerned about other problems I might encounter in the future, including the same thing happening to my current sims' kids.

I would really appreciate any help on this matter because I am quite confused and as I mentioned I've never encountered the bug before, haven't even heard of it, so I am a newbie. Apart from the hug bug everything is working fine, the game runs well, I don't have problematic cc or anything like that. I am considering reinstalling the whole thing just to be sure, but that would mean losing the house(which I put a ton of effort into) and the family and I would rather leave that as a last resort option. Again, sorry for a very long explanation, I am just paranoid about missing something important!
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Undead Molten Llama
#2 Old 22nd Oct 2018 at 7:54 PM
The only known ways to get the hug are by 1) removing a badly-made mod that adds interactions to pie menus or by 2) installing an "infected" lot uploaded by someone who had the hug, since the activated Maxis debug code (which is what it is, not really a "bug") tags along when lots are packaged. NoSimLoaded can't give you the hug either by using it or uninstalling it. All it does is remove sim-loaded tokens/controllers from the lot you have loaded. This includes the token which controls the hug behavior. So, if you have the hug and have NoSimLoaded, you will not see the behavior the code causes although you still have the code activated and can still pass it on if you share lots. You'll need to put NoSimLoaded back in to mask the behavior again.

As for the other issues, it sounds like the lots you described became corrupted in some manner at some point while playing them. Or perhaps the neighborhood is. Are you playing in one of the Maxis neighborhoods or one of your own making? If Maxis, those are all pre-corrupted for you, so unless you've installed fixed templates, that could be your problem. Or perhaps putting in an "unlimited Sims" mod while someone was already pregnant messed up the pregnancy controller. Perhaps multiple tokens/controllers are messed up on that lot, which is why you didn't see the hug behavior there even before you installed NSL, since it is controlled by a token. (I suspect the hug came from those downloaded lots you had installed.) Usually, moving the family out of a lot where things have gotten messed up and then moving them back in or moving them into a different lot will reset things, but not always. It depends on what the actual issue is. Sometimes the issues are with the Sim(s) themselves, not the lot they're living on.

Also, that "NoSimLoaded error." It sounds like you're in debug mode (AKA you have the testing "cheats" enabled) and you got a pop-up. If that's the case, then it would appear that NSL is conflicting with something, though I can't imagine what. But, you should also have a corresponding error log in Documents/EA Games/Sims 2/Logs that might shed some light on what's going on.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#3 Old 22nd Oct 2018 at 10:53 PM
No it would not be anything by BO. The SDH code was discovered to be an issue back in about 2006 and while one of BO's mods back then did activate it he fixed that and of course made sure no other mod caused it. It's BO's mod that helps keep your game free of the code becoming active. NSL is supposed to be instaled first, before messing around with mods or lots, to stop the SDH from ever becoming active. If you have the SDH you installed No Sim loaded too late.

Also lets be clear mods and lots do not 'cause it', they simply make it active. It is Maxis code, it won't hurt your game as such its just an annoyance. Toss in one of the mods that hides it and forget about it unless you plan to upload lots. If you upload lots make yourself another sims 2 folder and build in there.

No sim loaded also needs Smarter EP Check by Cyjon to work. it's all detailed in BO's readme on it. If you didn't install SEPC you will have borked births and other issues.

Also, just to make sure from what you said above, you didn't delete any sims did you? You know you can't delete sims 2 sims right?

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Undead Molten Llama
#4 Old 22nd Oct 2018 at 11:00 PM
I thought of the smarter EP check issue, too, but the pregnancy problems OP reported started before they installed NSL, so that couldn't have been the issue there, though it might be the issue with the Uni lot.

I just thought of something, though....I didn't know it was possible for pets to be resurrected as zombies? I mean, is that really possible? If not, is it possible that OP's game thinks the pet is a human Sim, meaning corruption? In which case the problem might not be limited to or related to the hug issue? I guess we just need more info.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#5 Old 22nd Oct 2018 at 11:03 PM
I am now asking if the OP has been deleting sims.

Also
no moving occupied lots to the bin(including graves)
No moving sims between hoods

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Test Subject
Original Poster
#6 Old 26th Oct 2018 at 7:57 PM
Hi all!

Sorry that it took me a while - the past week has been a bit too hectic for me

I am going to try my best to address all of the possible issues now...

@joandsarah77:

1. I didn't delete any sims until after all of the weirdness happened and I followed this tutorial to make sure I minimised all the risks: https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Game_g...a_Sim_correctly
2. I didn't move occupied lots to the bin, I didn't move sims between hoods or did anything else that increases chances of corruption
3. I definitely didn't install Smarter EP Check by Cyjon, I honestly had no clue it was necessary. In the mod description it says it is necessary for Final and Special versions, not the basic one. Do I still need it?

@iCad:
1. I am playing in Riverview (that's what it's called, right? The Seasons hood). I don't have any fixes installed for it, so I guess that could potentially be it
2. According fandom Sims wiki pet zombies are possible, it's just not obvious that they are zombies. I quit the moment it said that it's a zombie, so I didn't even see it to be honest
3. I didn't have any mods that add interactions, but as I said it I am a bit confused about the lot situation... I removed the lots long before I installed NoSimLoaded and I haven't had the "Super Duper Hug" interaction up until NoSimLoaded got removed a while later. From what I read that interaction should've appeared much earlier then? Or am I misunderstanding it? Btw I don't know if that's relevant, but I never actually placed the lots."Perhaps multiple tokens/controllers are messed up on that lot, which is why you didn't see the hug behavior there even before you installed NSL, since it is controlled by a token".- the first family moved houses a couple of times both during the time that I had the potentially corrupted lots installed and after I got them removed. I still have doubts it was the lots to be honest because nobody ever mentioned them being corrupted(neither the uploaders nor anyone in the comments and the uploaders are all quite well-known... But of course I realise that this doesn't guarantee anything, just seems strange to me)
4. "Or perhaps putting in an "unlimited Sims" mod while someone was already pregnant messed up the pregnancy controller." this does seem to be a likely reason why the first family couldn't have the baby... I did think about it myself, but only afterwards when it was too late
5. "Also, that "NoSimLoaded error." It sounds like you're in debug mode (AKA you have the testing "cheats" enabled) and you got a pop-up. If that's the case, then it would appear that NSL is conflicting with something, though I can't imagine what - I wasn't in debug mode, as I didn't want to have the cheats enabled in case they were breaking everything. The pop up also came immediately upon loading a lot and I always forget to enable the cheats in neighbourhood view even when I need to
6. "But, you should also have a corresponding error log in Documents/EA Games/Sims 2/Logs that might shed some light on what's going on." - so I just took a peak there and there are 24 ObjectError files that all were allegedly created at the exact same time. The thing is that I quit and reloaded the game several times and thus had the pop up interaction several times... So I am not even sure if the time stamp is the first time I encountered it or the last. What exactly should I be looking for here?

At this point my main question would be what would be best. Shall I just reintroduce NoSimLoaded back into my game, mask the problem and hope that none of the previous issues return or is it best for me to reinstall the game and start over? I know that it doesn't seem likely that NSL would've caused my move out problem, but at the same time to me it is unclear why it would get fixed the moment NSL was deleted. I might as well be overthinking it, but nothing like that has happened to me before, even when I was a silly kid back when the game was released, hence my reason for slight panic.
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#7 Old 26th Oct 2018 at 8:07 PM
@BoilingOil may be able to give more info about his mods.

I think the neighbourhood is called Riverblossom Hills.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#8 Old 26th Oct 2018 at 8:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
@BoilingOil may be able to give more info about his mods.

I think the neighbourhood is called Riverblossom Hills.


Oh yes, of course, Riverblossom Hills! I had Riverview in Sims 3 and I think I got them mixed up I knew it was River-Something, but the name escaped me
Scholar
#9 Old 27th Oct 2018 at 4:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ArielGrint
3. I definitely didn't install Smarter EP Check by Cyjon, I honestly had no clue it was necessary. In the mod description it says it is necessary for Final and Special versions, not the basic one. Do I still need it?

.......even before you installed NSL, since it is controlled by a token


Yes you definitely must have Smarter EP Check installed to use No Sim Loaded.

The Super hug is not controlled by a token, it itself is a Controller, a social plug-in controller.

It is set as a buyable item like a chair so unlike a normal controller it won't automatically exist, however once it does exist on a lot it will remain on the lot 'off world' where you can't delete it. It can be made to exist by another thing just like homework does or more commonly it can come with a lot. If a piece of cc uses the super hug's GUID as it's fall-back GUID and the cc is removed then the super hug will come into existence, probably on every lot in every neighbourhood.
While I personally would never use or recommend The No Sim Loaded mod it can not possibly cause it, it actively searches for and deletes it if it exists. If you have the bug then No Sim Loaded is one way to be certain to deal with it.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#10 Old 27th Oct 2018 at 11:55 PM
Deleting sims in any 'safe' way is still a huge risk. best not to do it. If you want them gone I suggest, either A) kill them off and move them to an edge of the hood graveyard surrounded by trees. or B) Move them alive to that same lot but toss a Simlogical prisoner token into their inventory so they are literally in jail.

Smarter EP check is very necessary and not just for No sim loaded, plenty of other mods require it as well.

Yes, you want no sim loaded, its considered an essential mod. It will not only hide the SDH code but it cleans up useless tokens and checks sim states. I have both that + smarter EP check in a folder called "Do Not Delete' I also add any NPC's that I download to it. (Maybe Chris Hatch doesn't need it, but us mere mortals do )

If you had any NPC creating mods that is one way to accidentally delete sims unknowingly. Multi PT mods, Bek's farm animals, Echo's roller coaster, the surfing mod and plenty of others use an NPC invisible sim. If you have any downloads that move about the lot they will have an NPC. (exception is Sun&moon chickens they do not 'move around' that one tile jump uses a different method, I believe it's cloned off the game roaches, also the merry-go-round is different it's base is the rotating car stand)

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Test Subject
Original Poster
#11 Old 28th Oct 2018 at 11:44 AM
@chrishatch

"If a piece of cc uses the super hug's GUID as it's fall-back GUID and the cc is removed then the super hug will come into existence, probably on every lot in every neighbourhood" - so how do I know if a piece of cc uses that GUID? can be something other than lots and "social" mods or are those the only types to look out for? And out of curiosity - why wouldn't you use NSL?

@joandsarah77

So which of the NoSimLoaded versions do I need then? I have initially picked the basic version(the one that claims to only "remove the "Sim Loaded" token on ALL sims in your hood" because I don't fully understand what the Final & Special ones do exactly as I've never encountered problems with the items that are mentioned on the description page for those... I guess I was really lucky for the past 14 years and now I am a mere mortal :D

My mods are quite "vanilla" really - as I mentioned, I have the maternity wear ones, good witch skin replacement, Numenor's smarter lights and slotsenablepackage - counters, MogHughson's tv watching mod and Marhis' all beds same energy. I don't recall any mention of invisible sims with any of those, but I will look out for it in the future. I don't think I have any really special objects either... all boring chairs and tables and sofas and what not

Oh and @iCad since you mentioned that there are fixes for default hoods - is this what I need: https://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/63030.html ?
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#12 Old 28th Oct 2018 at 12:01 PM
My crack at us mere mortals refers back to the fact that Chris has a bit of a reputation for being able to mod anything, so my guess is he would use his own self-made mods for things such as this and not use someone else's mods. If you are new to the world of sims 2 you might not be aware of his mods.

Use whichever version you like. I'm probably using the full one since I want all tokens and everything else that can slow my loading or drag down my game gone. I do hope you have the other essential mods, those that stop your hood and game going up in smoke? No Unlink on delete, no corrupt death, creature fixes -if you play vampires?

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
#13 Old 28th Oct 2018 at 1:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ArielGrint
And out of curiosity - why wouldn't you use NSL?


Mostly because the Sim Loaded token is useful debugging thing, when a sim is loaded from a save file the sim is given the token provided a token doesn't already exist, when a sim is generated fresh like arriving as a visitor then any Sim Loaded tokens are removed. Therefore if you want to know how a sim came into existence like for example when you open a community lot and there's an NPC or two there you can check their memory in SimPE for the token and find out. No sim will ever have more than one of those tokens so it is a very trivial thing to remove.
Although not real important I like my sims to have real gossip to gossip about and don't want it removed.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#14 Old 28th Oct 2018 at 2:38 PM
@joandsarah77

As I mentioned before, I am not new to the world of Sims 2, having played it since the day of its release, but I will admit I have never come across Chris' mods. And no, I don't have any of the mods you have mentioned - I looked them up and it doesn't seem like something I would actually find useful personally... I don't play vampires, never delete tombstones and my sims don't gossip(somehow not an interaction I ever chose, feels a bit mean to me). Overall, perhaps I have been lucky to have never experienced any sort of issues before this one so most "fixes" just never felt necessary, I don't tend to look for solutions to problems that I haven't encountered before

@Chrishatch

Thanks for taking the time to explain, it's quite interesting!
Mad Poster
#15 Old 28th Oct 2018 at 7:57 PM Last edited by kestrellyn : 28th Oct 2018 at 10:14 PM.
You said you installed lots - did you install them without using the Clean Installer? If so, it's possible that they installed mods you aren't aware of.

You should post the object errors though, someone may be able to tell you why your sims couldn't move out. Pregnancies sometimes get stuck, probably it can be fixed with the lot debugger.
Scholar
#16 Old 29th Oct 2018 at 12:39 AM
Hi folks,

Apparently, there is a bit of confusion regarding one of my top-3 mods CAUSING a bug that it should PREVENT.
This is the thing: the BASIC version of NSL does nothing so complicated that it requires Cyjon's Smarter EP Check. It will work very well without it. All that the basic version does, is two things:

[1] remove the "Token - Sim - Loaded" from all sims in the hood upon loading a lot. The token in question is not used by the game for anything useful (although it *may* be useful to modders and people investigating bugs), but every time you load a lot, all the sims that are present on that lot, get this token added. This causes a problem, because it is a token of which each sim can have only ONE. So every time the game tries to add this token to a sim, it gets told that it can't, and then it must find the existing token, and remove it... For some odd reason, this always takes a lot of time. So that's why NSL was originall made, to kill these tokens, and speed up load times as a result. PCs in those days were a lot slower than nowadays...

[2] disable any calls to the Debug Super Duper Hug. Maxis created this Hug for testing purposes, and then disabled it in normal play. Someone got the bright idea to create a new social plugin (some kiss or vampire bite) and used the SDH as a template. Normally, this would not have been a problem, if they had not forgotten to rewrite the Fallback GUID. When a social plugin is run, it creates a controller to assign labels to the initiating and recieving sims, and to direct their actions to get the desired effect. Such controllers are never properly destroyed by the Maxis code. So they are the remnants. When a sim is looking for something to do, the game finds these controllers, and checks if the sim might want to do those actions. If you have removed the mod, however, the controller points to some invalid location. An error occurs, and the game tries the Fallback GUID as a stopgap measure. That's how removing that first social plugin caused the discovery of the SDH.
There are still mods out there that do similar things, and the authors of some of those STILL fail to delete that Fallback. So that bug keeps coming back when one of those mods is removed from your game.

So all versions of NSL check for signs that controllers with this Fallback GUID are trying to be used, and kills them immediately. That is all that it does.
Now here is the drawback: with NSL installed, you can not see when the SDH gets first activated, so you don't know when your system gets 'infected' with it. It won't show, so everything seems cool. UNTILL you remove NSL. Because then the bug shows up. You may think that NSL is the culprit, but all it ever did was hide the fact that the bug existed. It's like a bandaid on a wound. The wound is still there, but the bandaid conceals it! The only way to fix the SDH problem, is to put NSL back in.

Also to @ArielGrint : when you originally removed NSL, did you properly delete the groups.cache file from your TS2 folder in Documents? If you did not, then that explains why you're getting NSL errors when loading. The game still thinks it's there, even though it actually isn't because you took it out. Put NSL back, and delete groups.cache so the game can make a new version of that file!
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#17 Old 29th Oct 2018 at 1:50 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ArielGrint
@joandsarah77

As I mentioned before, I am not new to the world of Sims 2, having played it since the day of its release, but I will admit I have never come across Chris' mods. And no, I don't have any of the mods you have mentioned - I looked them up and it doesn't seem like something I would actually find useful personally... I don't play vampires, never delete tombstones and my sims don't gossip(somehow not an interaction I ever chose, feels a bit mean to me). Overall, perhaps I have been lucky to have never experienced any sort of issues before this one so most "fixes" just never felt necessary, I don't tend to look for solutions to problems that I haven't encountered before

@Chrishatch

Thanks for taking the time to explain, it's quite interesting!


Every sims 2 player needs at least no unlink on delete. You don't have to delete graves, the game itself can, randomly. If it does and you don't have the mod, that hood is corrupted. Now if you are someone who deletes hoods frequently this might not matter to you, but if playing a hood a long time is something you want it pays to safeguard it. Also your sims do gossip, they do so autonomously. That however isn't as important as the game randomly deleting graves.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#18 Old 29th Oct 2018 at 4:19 AM
The Super Duper Hug turns every sims 2 player into a conspiracy theorist, it seems. It's relatively simple to understand where it comes from and how to prevent/remove it, but everyone treats it like Sims Herpes and prefers to throw around wild accusations against various mods causing it instead.
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