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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Nov 2014 at 11:47 PM
Default People Are Using Mental Illnesses As Insults.
I personally find it offensive. I've heard people say, "Stop it, are you psycho?" to people for something simple like brining up a strange topic or being awkward. I've also heard people say (this is a REAL conversation I heard in English class) "I think one of his personality traits is...OCD. Yeah, he likes everything to be in place and stuff." My english teacher was unimpressed and corrected him, saying the correct term would be perfectionist. I've experienced dealing with OCD and have family members who are baldy affected by it. I've also heard people use it when they're calling someone clean or neat. Same with GAD, some people say, "I totally have anxiety, I get nervous before tests sometimes and I think it might affect my performance."

What do you think about this? Is it okay for people to use these terms, or should people stop doing this?

“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!”
— The Doctor, Season 2, Episode 2
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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 27th Nov 2014 at 11:49 PM
Honestly, they are just uninformed, and I hate it when people say stuff like this. I heard the whole OCD joke thing a lot, and it gets me mad, and people get mad when I correct them.
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#3 Old 28th Nov 2014 at 1:20 AM
I think this is more about trivialisation than insults. And while yeah, it's definitely problematic, it's also positive that people are thinking of mental illness not as some scary Other, but as extreme versions of ordinary problems - which reduces stigma, even if it does so through a damaging mechanism.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Lab Assistant
#4 Old 28th Nov 2014 at 3:38 AM Last edited by quesadildos : 28th Nov 2014 at 6:06 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Nysha
I think this is more about trivialisation than insults. And while yeah, it's definitely problematic, it's also positive that people are thinking of mental illness not as some scary Other, but as extreme versions of ordinary problems - which reduces stigma, even if it does so through a damaging mechanism.


That's true, but when you actually have an anxiety disorder and someone makes a remark like that, it makes you feel slightly useless. Same with the less popular word, I've only heard it used in America, schizo, as in schizophrenia, used to call someone crazy or insane. Same with calling someone bipolar because they changed moods fast. It's good that people are aware of mental illness, but it's also not so good that they're misinformed about it.

Edit: by changed moods, I mean being really mad in the morning then returning to a normal mood after a few hours.
Spice Pony
#5 Old 28th Nov 2014 at 3:11 PM
I have severe OCD, and I'm more offended by people getting offended on my behalf than anything that provokes that offense. To be honest, I think OCD is a spectrum, one which most people are on. Few if any of my family members are diagnosed with it, and yet almost every single one shows some signs of it.

Plus, it's a ridiculous disease. It deserves to be laughed at.

Can't speak for any of the others, though.
Top Secret Researcher
#6 Old 29th Nov 2014 at 9:04 AM
Quote: Originally posted by NinjaTessa
Same with GAD, some people say, "I totally have anxiety, I get nervous before tests sometimes and I think it might affect my performance."


So you decided someone doesn't have a psychological disorder based on one sentence? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean they don't have one.

Deciding that you know someone better than they know themselves is much worse than using any word.

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting it transported.
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 29th Nov 2014 at 11:29 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simbalena
So you decided someone doesn't have a psychological disorder based on one sentence? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean they don't have one.

Deciding that you know someone better than they know themselves is much worse than using any word.


I think she meant when someone thinks they have a mental disorder when they quite obviously don't. I used to have a friend who claimed to have panic attacks every once in a while, and when we asked her what they felt like, she said, "it was just, like, really bad nervousness in the pit of my stomach for 10 minutes." I've had two panic attacks in the last month, and I know she definitely doesn't have a panic disorder.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#8 Old 29th Nov 2014 at 11:40 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simbalena
So you decided someone doesn't have a psychological disorder based on one sentence? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean they don't have one.

Deciding that you know someone better than they know themselves is much worse than using any word.


I agree with quesadidlos, I'm not a psychologist and I'm not going around diagnosing and not diagnosing people with psychological disorders. If you've ever experienced anxiety, you'd know that if if you get slightly nervous sometimes before tests....You probably don't have an anxiety disorder. Same with admitting it, most people would be too anxious about their reaction.

“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!”
— The Doctor, Season 2, Episode 2
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#9 Old 30th Nov 2014 at 12:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by NinjaTessa
What do you think about this? Is it okay for people to use these terms, or should people stop doing this?
Of course it's okay. Can you imagine how many insults we'd have if we excluded all of the usual sources of insults? If you want to insult someone for something, how else would you do it except by comparing them to someone who is similarly deficient in something?

And don't say nonsense like "We shouldn't insult people". That's bollocks.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 1st Dec 2014 at 12:07 AM
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Of course it's okay. Can you imagine how many insults we'd have if we excluded all of the usual sources of insults? If you want to insult someone for something, how else would you do it except by comparing them to someone who is similarly deficient in something?

And don't say nonsense like "We shouldn't insult people". That's bollocks.


Not that we shouldn't insult people, but there's better ways to do it, you got to admit. Feels very awkward when your someone is making fun of how weak people who have panic attacks are when you had one yesterday. Maybe there's better insults out there, ever thing about that? It's possible to insult someone without insulting others at the same time.
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#11 Old 1st Dec 2014 at 1:32 AM
Quote: Originally posted by quesadildos
Not that we shouldn't insult people, but there's better ways to do it, you got to admit. Feels very awkward when your someone is making fun of how weak people who have panic attacks are when you had one yesterday.
That's only awkward because it makes you a hypocrite. You're supposed to insult people for deficiencies you LACK.

Quote: Originally posted by quesadildos
Maybe there's better insults out there, ever thing about that? It's possible to insult someone without insulting others at the same time.
The entire point of an insult is to imply that the insultee is lacking or deficient in some core point of character, and this necessarily involves comparing them to a group which specifically has that deficiency, by using the word we have for that group. Otherwise, you don't have a word for it. This is why all attempts at politically correct euphemisms fail in the end as the new term becomes the insult. Changing the term doesn't make the deficient group suddenly possess the character trait for which you were using the lack of as an insult. It's not necessarily about insulting said group: Indeed, if you refer to an actual member of such a group by that, it's just a statement of fact, not an insult.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Top Secret Researcher
#12 Old 1st Dec 2014 at 6:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
That's only awkward because it makes you a hypocrite. You're supposed to insult people for deficiencies you LACK.


I'm pretty sure quesadildos was talking about someone else making the insult, not hirself.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
The entire point of an insult is to imply that the insultee is lacking or deficient in some core point of character, and this necessarily involves comparing them to a group which specifically has that deficiency, by using the word we have for that group. Otherwise, you don't have a word for it. This is why all attempts at politically correct euphemisms fail in the end as the new term becomes the insult. Changing the term doesn't make the deficient group suddenly possess the character trait for which you were using the lack of as an insult. It's not necessarily about insulting said group: Indeed, if you refer to an actual member of such a group by that, it's just a statement of fact, not an insult.


And using a grenade to kill a man in a crowd isn't necessarily about killing anyone else in the crowd, but you can see how it might happen, no?

When you use the name for a group to insult someone, then you are saying that the group is inferior, thus being compared to it is insulting. If you insult a man by calling him a woman, then you are saying that being a woman is inferior to being a man. Use panic attacks as a synonym for weakness, and you're saying that people who have panic attacks are inferior.

Look at your explanation: that some people are "deficient", so other people deserve to use their label as a deprecation, because it's not like changing that will make those people better, right?

It is not about making people "better". It is about not creating collateral damage for the sake of using as little brainpower as possible to tell someone they suck. No, you may not intend to say that people with mental or developmental retardation are inferior. But if you say something is "retarded", then you are saying that it is brainless, and that "retarded" is a label for brainlessness. That being labeled with us is so terrible that it's INSULTING. And by refusing to listen, by saying it's so HAAAAAAAAAARD to upset people without comparing them to us, you say that we're not worth listening to, that we don't deserve human dignity.

If you don't intend to say that, then don't whine about how you intended whatever. Stop saying it.

And seriously, if you can't figure out a way to insult someone without resorting to euphemisms for groups, then your brain is as limp as a failed boner.
Spice Pony
#13 Old 2nd Dec 2014 at 2:10 AM
I stick by what I said about OCD, but if you want an example of me taking a less receptive attitude toward this sort of thing, jokes about Tourette's do bug me. Not so much because I think it diminishes the disease's significance, but because they're almost always founded in ignorance. So many people know Tourette's as "that disease where people shout profanities uncontrollably". Now, I will confess that whether I have Tourette's or not is up in the air (the doctor's diagnosis can be paraphrased as "Yeah, you've sure got something, all right.), but I definitely have something at least very closely related. And let me tell you, I'm probably the cleanest-mouthed person I know. It's not that I have a moral issue with cursing or something like that; I'm just conditioned not to do it. The only time you'll ever hear me curse aloud is when the situation is very serious; think impending risk to life and limb of myself or someone I care about. When I first read about the stereotypes for Tourette's, I laughed at the absurdity. When I encountered those stereotypes in real life, though, I was offended.

So I have to propose that maybe the problem isn't so much what you say as what is implied about your attitudes by what you say. Or maybe that's just me.
Scholar
#14 Old 2nd Dec 2014 at 8:58 PM
It depends on what it is. The trivializations don't bother me as much as actually using these terms as insults. Saying "oh, I'm so OCD" doesn't bother me as much as people saying "that person's crazy, maybe they should be in a mental institution." Or "now I'm gonna go cry and slit my wrists because you insulted me" (implying that self-injurers are weak, stupid, and incredibly easily triggered). The worst is probably "just kill yourself" or "go kill yourself" (which is bad enough when said in jest but horrible when said in seriousness or semi-seriousness).

Personally I hate it when people trivialize things as 'politically correct.' To me it's being a decent person, not an asshole. Not being racist and sexist and prejudiced against those with mental illnesses and disabilities isn't just politically correct, it's being a decent person. And yeah, you can "say whatever you want" but that doesn't mean you're exempt from people thinking you're an asshole because of what you say. Also, if you say shit like that, expect people to be offended. I have every right to be offended and you saying I "shouldn't be" isn't going to do anything honestly.

Also, relating insults to people with "defects of character" is the whole point of why it's offensive...because if you say someone is weak for having a mental illness, which they cannot control, or you insult them because they're gay which they can't control, that's a shitty thing to do. And yes I know about the cycle (or "treadmill") of offensive words, but there isn't any other option (besides not caring about being an offensive asshole) currently. We'll only cycle through so many of them in our lifetimes so I wouldn't worry about it anyway...

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
bleed-in-ink.tumblr.com
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#15 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 5:12 AM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
I'm pretty sure quesadildos was talking about someone else making the insult, not hirself.
I was referring to "you" in the generic sense.

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
And using a grenade to kill a man in a crowd isn't necessarily about killing anyone else in the crowd, but you can see how it might happen, no?
Pretty sure no one has died because someone called them a nasty name.

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
When you use the name for a group to insult someone, then you are saying that the group is inferior, thus being compared to it is insulting.
Indeed! That is how it works! Now you get it!

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
If you insult a man by calling him a woman, then you are saying that being a woman is inferior to being a man.
It's possible, but it could also be expressing the man's failure to conform to his socially-expected role.

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Use panic attacks as a synonym for weakness, and you're saying that people who have panic attacks are inferior.
Are you implying this isn't true? Are you saying that if we took the same person and removed the problem, that they would not be better off for it?

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Look at your explanation: that some people are "deficient", so other people deserve to use their label as a deprecation, because it's not like changing that will make those people better, right?
Pretty much.

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
It is not about making people "better". It is about not creating collateral damage for the sake of using as little brainpower as possible to tell someone they suck. No, you may not intend to say that people with mental or developmental retardation are inferior.
Objectively speaking, yes, I actually am. That's why people get told to "stop being retarded". See above. The shift towards favoring mental issues as the choice of unfavorable comparison is actually a shift towards tolerance: We're now judging people by what they are inside, in their heads, and not based on trivial, subjective conditions like the color of their skin. But if what you are inside is still broken, well, what else can you do? Someone has to be inferior, and at some point you're going to boil things down to an objective criteria where those in question actually *ARE* inferior.

Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
And seriously, if you can't figure out a way to insult someone without resorting to euphemisms for groups, then your brain is as limp as a failed boner.
The nature of insulting someone is that you compare them to a class that is subjectively or objectively viewed as inferior or inappropriate. Animals, the ugly, the crippled, the not-all-there-in-the-head...you take your pick. The point is, people have negative attributes, and insulting them is about implying that they have these negative attributes.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 10:34 AM Last edited by VerDeTerre : 3rd Dec 2014 at 11:02 AM.
Damn! I really want to know what Mistermook was going to say.

People trot out the "politically correct" phrase when they don't like it being pointed out that they are being assholes. It's a way to shut down objections to terms and ideas that are insulting to others.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Top Secret Researcher
#17 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 6:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Pretty sure no one has died because someone called them a nasty name.


Ah! The misrepresentation of an argument because you want to trivialize the point! Like a fine wine, it has turned into vinegar because it's just that old.

The point is that even if you intend to only hit one person, words and grenades have wide target areas. Lob either at a single person, intending to hit only them, and you stand a good chance of hitting someone else.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Indeed! That is how it works! Now you get it!


And in the course of calling a person inferior, you are also calling the group inferior. Thus, you insult the group. Thus, insulting someone that way is not limited to the individual in question, as you were claiming in your first post.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
It's possible, but it could also be expressing the man's failure to conform to his socially-expected role.


But nothing. Say a woman throws like a man, and it's a compliment. Say a man throws like a woman and it's an insult.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Are you implying this isn't true? Are you saying that if we took the same person and removed the problem, that they would not be better off for it?


I am saying that having a mental illness does not make someone worth less as a human being. If they were cured, it would not change their worth. If they had never had it in the first place, then they would not be worth more than those who do. Whether or not they would be "better off" does not factor into it.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Pretty much.


Great! You're ableist scum. Glad to know we agree on that.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Objectively speaking, yes, I actually am. That's why people get told to "stop being retarded". See above. The shift towards favoring mental issues as the choice of unfavorable comparison is actually a shift towards tolerance: We're now judging people by what they are inside, in their heads, and not based on trivial, subjective conditions like the color of their skin. But if what you are inside is still broken, well, what else can you do? Someone has to be inferior, and at some point you're going to boil things down to an objective criteria where those in question actually *ARE* inferior.


Oh, right. Judging someone for a condition they cannot change is so much more enlightened than judging someone for a condition they cannot change.
And a shift "towards tolerance" implies that judging people on mental illnesses is still bigoted. You admit it! So why are you still doing? Oh, right. You're lazy, don't have that much mental power, and don't care.

Now, true tolerance would be judging someone by their actions, not by whether or not they're sick. For instance, you are acting like a bigot. You devalue human life based on random elements that cannot be controlled. Therefore, you are inferior.

So, "objective criteria"? Prove that some people are worth less by "objective criteria". I want you to prove to me that every person with a mental illness is worth less, should be a second-class citizen, should not have a say in their own label. Prove it or stop using the argument, because you cannot use a baseless argument.

Also, you're implying that the color of someone's skin is also a source of "being broken". We used to judge people by the color of their skin; now we judge them by what's inside their heads and some are "still broken". That's what you said.

Why, pray tell, does someone have to be inferior? I agree that some people are. You clearly are, because of what you've been saying. However, I'm not saying you're worth less as a human being because of it, and you can change it if the label bothers you. You, on the other hand, are saying that I am, and it's because of something I cannot - and will not - change. That is what makes you inferior.

Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
The nature of insulting someone is that you compare them to a class that is subjectively or objectively viewed as inferior or inappropriate. Animals, the ugly, the crippled, the not-all-there-in-the-head...you take your pick. The point is, people have negative attributes, and insulting them is about implying that they have these negative attributes.


You have negative attributes. You're a bigot. Perhaps I should insult others by comparing them to you. "Hey, stop it! You're acting like a Pescado!" "This is so Pescaded." There. Now you have an insult that doesn't involve groups of mentally-ill people.

Perhaps it'll catch on. Perhaps, every time you introduce yourself to people, you'll essentially be saying "Hey, my name is Stupid!" and everyone will laugh. But hey, you can change your name. It's not like you have a mental illness and can't change your label.

And every time I insult someone by saying they're like you, I'll be insulting you. But hey, at least I'm judging you for what's inside your head, so I'm not intolerant! Silver lining, eh?

Side note: I also want to know what Mistermook was going to say. Why'd he have to delete it? That's so pescaded.
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 7:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Side note: I also want to know what Mistermook was going to say. Why'd he have to delete it? That's so pescaded.


I know, Mistermook always has awesome replies. This is such a pescaded thing, wish it was still there.
Alchemist
#19 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 8:59 PM
I think the problem is more one of widely spread/accepted hyperbole than of people actually making a conscious effort to belittle or offend the mentally ill.
It's become something of a cultural norm for people to immediately go to extremes with their choice of words rather than use words that accurately describe what they're meaning to communicate. I'm sure you can think of some examples right off the top of your head, it's so prolific. "My dog scared the shit out of me, I almost had a heart attack!" You honestly think they crapped themselves and nearly had a medical emergency over what was probably them just being startled? "I gave a speech in front of the whole class today, and when I sat back in my seat, I noticed this big pizza stain on my shirt... I was dying of embarrassment." I doubt she was actually dying, given that the lethality of minor embarrassment is a rock solid zero. "Ohmigod, I love Justin Beiber*! He's so hot!" ...No you don't. You love your family/friends/pets/lover. You've never met him and you don't know anything about him. This is just an extreme way to phrase admiration. "[Insert insect/animal/object name/hobby/profession] is evil!" ...No, it's not. You just disapprove of it for some reason or another.

Generally speaking, people use the most common names of mental disorders as shorthand, shallow concepts to label others "crazy" or imply that they are "crazy" (And therefore everything "crazy" implies...irrational, unpredictable, malevolent, etc) but what they're actually saying is, "I don't understand or relate to that person, and my ignorance leads me to feel fearful of them to some degree. I'm going to distance myself from that person." That's it, that's all.


TL;DR: When do people ever accurately express their ideas? Most don't even have a developed vocabulary, so they default to picking up any dumb thing they hear out of someone else's mouth, assuming that makes it socially acceptable to say, and repeat it to communicate (Poorly) their own messages. Or, they just aren't a deep thinker in general and say stupid things without examining the thought past surface level, which is entirely too commonplace. Most of the people who reference mental disorders in this way aren't very concerned with appearing intelligent or maintaining factual accuracy, and are instead aiming for the creation of drama.



*Spell check asked me to replace "Beiber" with Beriberi. Or Imbiber. Or Briber. Or Ribber. Any of those would've made me happy to use, but then nobody would know who I was talking about.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Top Secret Researcher
#20 Old 4th Dec 2014 at 11:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by hugbug993
Say a woman throws like a man, and it's a compliment. Say a man throws like a woman and it's an insult.


Tell a woman she's hairy like a man... it's not a compliment.

It's all a matter of context.

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting it transported.
Top Secret Researcher
#21 Old 4th Dec 2014 at 6:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simbalena
Tell a woman she's hairy like a man... it's not a compliment.

It's all a matter of context.


Yeah, but say it to a man, and it's still not a compliment.
Banned
#22 Old 6th Dec 2014 at 5:31 PM
Whenever the internet mocks the autistic, i.e putting them in the recieving end of punishment, that is the worst. Personally, I think we need to get along. Tell fhe GTA Forums, tell 4chan, tell everyone.
Lab Assistant
#23 Old 10th Dec 2014 at 1:06 AM
Also, I think this might be caused by a general lack of information on mental illnesses. I haven't graduated high school yet, but I love the idea of psychology and have several books on it, and I know I want a job that has to do with it, but, seeing as I educated myself on this, most people don't. For example, someone might call someone "So OCD!" for liking everything to be in place and they generally have a very organized lifestyle, when in reality it's a lot closer to OCPD than OCD.
 
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