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Alchemist
Original Poster
#1 Old 29th May 2014 at 11:44 PM
Default Personality: Points vs. Traits
The first two Sims games had the personality point system, allowing you to adjust your sim's level of neatness, niceness, seriousness, etc. The Sims 3 introduced the personality trait system, allowing you to give your sim's a set of different traits. What worked, what twerked, and what do you prefer?

Discuss.
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Alchemist
#2 Old 30th May 2014 at 12:08 AM
How about "good hair day" (Just trying to be obnoxious - success!)
Field Researcher
#3 Old 30th May 2014 at 3:11 AM
Maybe it's just because I played Sims2 for so long but I much prefer that over Sims3, especially because those sims also had aspirations, which added another facet to their personality; interests, which were more cosmetic but at least sims reacted appropriately to their interests in conversations (if they hated politics and politics came up in conversation, they'd get all pissy at the speaker); and hobbies, which were sort of like interests actually made playable. Oh yeah, and there were also turn-ons/turn-offs, which affected how they interacted with other sims.

So many of the traits in TS3 were not traits, but interests (loves dogs, loves children, loves outdoors, loves computers, loves hot weather, etc.) and that annoyed the heck out of me. Another thing that annoyed the heck out of me? Evil showers. Extreeeeeme nap. Blech.

In 2 each sim's personality was composed of their 5 personality characteristics, their feelings on 12 different 'interest' subjects, their aspiration, and their interest in up to 10 different hobbies. TS3 had 5 personality 'traits.' Plus a favorite color, which AFAIK did nothing. Plus a favorite music type, which AFAIK did nothing but force that music to play when the sim turned on the radio. Plus a favorite food, which AFAIK did nothing (Would sims autonomously make this if they were left to their own devices? Did they get a better moodlet? I don't know!).

BUT - all that being said, since TS3-style traits seem here to stay, I would LOVE if the two systems could be combined. For TS4, I want to see personality points plus traits added on top to round out the sim. My idea: Keep the 5 personality trait system from TS2 but instead of a ten-point system, it could be simplified so it's only out of 4-points in order to cover all the basic options (0 points=very shy, 1=somewhat shy, 2=neutral, 3=somewhat outgoing, 4=very outgoing). And no more 'You have personality points left over' in CAS, forcing us to use them. No limit. I could have a sim maxed out in all five traits, or a sim with 0 personality points throughout. I would love to have the full 10-point system but whatever, EA's all about dumbing things down, so that's as dumb as it can get.

The 5 TS2-style traits (shy/outgoing, active/lazy, neat/sloppy, playful/serious, grouchy/nice) make up the basics of a sim's personality. After a sim has those, you can add another 5 non-conflicting TS3-style traits in order to round out the sim further.

I also don't want to see any more fucking sims with the technophobe trait playing with smart phones.
*shrugs*
retired moderator
#4 Old 30th May 2014 at 3:17 AM


I say use the points system to give traits weighted strength. Is your Sim a complete vegan, vegetarian, do they only eat certain kinds of meat, or do they eat more meat than the dinosaurs in all the Jurassic Park movies? Is your Sim neat and tidy or are they just germaphobic?

I don't mind if you call me "MSD" or something for short.
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Field Researcher
#5 Old 30th May 2014 at 3:33 AM
Quote: Originally posted by maybesomethingdunno


I say use the points system to give traits weighted strength. Is your Sim a complete vegan, vegetarian, do they only eat certain kinds of meat, or do they eat more meat than the dinosaurs in all the Jurassic Park movies? Is your Sim neat and tidy or are they just germaphobic?

I agree with this ^
Scholar
#6 Old 30th May 2014 at 3:34 AM
Quote: Originally posted by maybesomethingdunno


I say use the points system to give traits weighted strength. Is your Sim a complete vegan, vegetarian, do they only eat certain kinds of meat, or do they eat more meat than the dinosaurs in all the Jurassic Park movies? Is your Sim neat and tidy or are they just germaphobic?


TS3 bugged me so much with its 'digital' ON/OFF thinking. In TS2 you could have DEGREES of a trait, not just on or off. So yeah, I agree, both is my choice as well. Analog personality FTW.

Paladins/SimWardrobes downloads: https://simfileshare.net/folder/87849/
Test Subject
#7 Old 30th May 2014 at 8:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by darthesp
BUT - all that being said, since TS3-style traits seem here to stay, I would LOVE if the two systems could be combined. For TS4, I want to see personality points plus traits added on top to round out the sim. My idea: Keep the 5 personality trait system from TS2 but instead of a ten-point system, it could be simplified so it's only out of 4-points in order to cover all the basic options (0 points=very shy, 1=somewhat shy, 2=neutral, 3=somewhat outgoing, 4=very outgoing). And no more 'You have personality points left over' in CAS, forcing us to use them. No limit. I could have a sim maxed out in all five traits, or a sim with 0 personality points throughout. I would love to have the full 10-point system but whatever, EA's all about dumbing things down, so that's as dumb as it can get.

The 5 TS2-style traits (shy/outgoing, active/lazy, neat/sloppy, playful/serious, grouchy/nice) make up the basics of a sim's personality. After a sim has those, you can add another 5 non-conflicting TS3-style traits in order to round out the sim further.

I also don't want to see any more fucking sims with the technophobe trait playing with smart phones.


Couldn't have said it better myself, I was thinking this the moment I read the title of the thread. A combination of the two would be perfect if done right. I really hope EA is listening to fan feedback, and if it meant fine tuning the game to people's liking as opposed to rushing out the product? Then so be it. I want a better personality system
Instructor
#8 Old 30th May 2014 at 8:28 AM
I liked the idea of Sims 3 traits more, but the implementation and execution was off. The 5 traits were the only thing that influenced the Sims' personalities. In Sims 2 we had interests, star sign, aspiration AND personality points which determined the Sims' personalities.

Even so, the trait system didn't really seem to affect or determine the Sims behaviour much. Unless you picked really extreme traits, and even then sometimes the only thing you could do was 'have an evil shower'. Traits unlocked new social interactions and behaviours, but it didn't seem like the Sims did them autonomously, which enforced the lack of personality. Traits to me just seemed like empty labels to put on sims.

In sims 2 if you make a sim shy, you'll know about it right away from the way they stand and accept compliments. Same with outgoing, lazy, sloppy, playful. Even just crossing a room, outgoing sims will wave/snap their fingers at other sims, lazy sims will slouch..you really notice the affect of personality points even when your sims aren't really doing anything. And that's automatic, not directed behaviour.

Bustin' Out!
Field Researcher
#9 Old 30th May 2014 at 8:53 AM
I want a hybrid system - points to define basic characteristics shy/outgoing, etc. just the way it was in the Sims 2 and five quirks aka traits the Sims 3 style. This way the attraction system would work normally, based on personality and stuff like virtuoso, loves dogs, great kisser of insane will add new social interactions or restrictions. I'd play a game like that.
Oh, forgot to add - all traits and characteristics should be shown and not told about via stupid moodlets.

Noone expects the spanish inquisition!
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One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#10 Old 30th May 2014 at 8:53 AM
I prefer points. They should read any up to date studies about the temperament that babies are born with (not personality - that develops as a result of how temperament is affected by environment) and have those as our basic settings. Then add traits as the sim grows up. It is a bit meaningless for a player to choose traits at birthdays, the game should use an intelligent algorithm to apply them.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#11 Old 30th May 2014 at 8:55 AM
Agreeing with darthesp. I think some don't realize that in sims 2 a sims interests directly affect what a sim talks about or doesn't want to talk about.

If what we have seen of Sims 4 CAS is it, it showed 3 traits and an aspiration; not much for an adult.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Instructor
#12 Old 30th May 2014 at 9:04 AM
I also loved how personality points could change in Sims 2. It really added to the generational gameplay when my really outgoing elder Rachael Maxis put effort into encouraging her ultra-shy granddaughter Petra to be more outgoing in time for her first day of high school. In Sims 3 if your sim gained a trait you didn't like/want (which happened quite a lot given that if you go and play another family the game will randomly select one anyway) then as far as I know you couldn't alter that trait.

Personality points are more moderate. You can have an average sim. Traits are either all or nothing, a sim either has them or doesn't.

Bustin' Out!
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#13 Old 30th May 2014 at 9:07 AM
EA told us they stopped personality points because players were making all their sims moderate instead of going to extremes. Well excuse ME! At least we had the choice how to play our sims, why did EA want to dictate that our sims must be extreme? In fact I used to make the majority of my sims moderate then a few extreme, in order to fit the story I wanted to play.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Scholar
#14 Old 30th May 2014 at 9:12 AM
I'm torn. I like the traits from Sims 3, but I agree with pinimon, they weren't executed that well... the points in Sims 2 were nice, although I eventually felt like all the Sims I created were still clones of each other because even the points didn't give me much freedom unless I made an extremely tidy or extremely lazy sim.

As for the interests, I can't count them because I had no real influence over them... I made a Sim, I check the interest tab and BAM! They have their interests already randomized. Something I dislike, because what if I was trying to make a lazy Sim, but who loved TALKING about sports? But nope, sports was randomized to be of low interest in conversations.

C-A
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#15 Old 30th May 2014 at 9:17 AM
Actually the personality points meant far less predictability in what interactions they chose. The algorithms for interaction autonomy were a quite complex and personality was a sliding scale factor along with motive bars. I found you could say - and particularly so in TS1 - "Oh look at good old Dierdre, always chooses a book while everyone else is dancing". They were as recognisable for their individual personalities and life choices as by their looks. In fact TS2 had less autonomy *anyway* due to the introduction of situation controllers, that treated the sims like puppets to be sent to do stuff rather than the TS1 way where everything a sim did was chosen as part of the autonomy AI, and therefore factored in their personality bars.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#16 Old 30th May 2014 at 9:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
EA told us they stopped personality points because players were making all their sims moderate instead of going to extremes. Well excuse ME! At least we had the choice how to play our sims, why did EA want to dictate that our sims must be extreme? In fact I used to make the majority of my sims moderate then a few extreme, in order to fit the story I wanted to play.


Really! Wow they must have read my mind than! Only they read it wrongly because I love extreme sims. EA has this very out of touch with reality thing going on. Players all use smart phones! Players don't like extremes, players want sweet treats! Oh yeah and the biggy, players want to be online and share their sims memories and do social meetups trading sims between games! If they don't realize most simmers or gamers in general like to play their game alone, offline and then just talk about it or share with others as they see fit they really are out of touch with reality.

Quote: Originally posted by CatMuto
As for the interests, I can't count them because I had no real influence over them... I made a Sim, I check the interest tab and BAM! They have their interests already randomized. Something I dislike, because what if I was trying to make a lazy Sim, but who loved TALKING about sports? But nope, sports was randomized to be of low interest in conversations.
C-A

You have to make your sim read magazines to raise the interest level of what you want them to talk about, or go into SimPE and set it to what you want. It is possible, just it takes a bit more work.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Lab Assistant
#17 Old 30th May 2014 at 2:16 PM
If they put personality traits similiar to TS3 back into TS4, I hope that they will be much better implemented and realistic.

In TS3 if I gave my sim the "Hot-Headed" Trait, everything he would do is scream of anger in the middle of town and get a moodlet saying that he's angry. Seriously, who behaves like that?
Inventor
#18 Old 30th May 2014 at 2:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by colazocker13

In TS3 if I gave my sim the "Hot-Headed" Trait, everything he would do is scream of anger in the middle of town and get a moodlet saying that he's angry. Seriously, who behaves like that?

I behave like that and my imaginary friends do too.
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 30th May 2014 at 3:31 PM
I like the sims 3 traits, but i wish they had more unique interactions assosiated with them. I agree with darthesp; the traits should be actual traits and not interests, and I wish we had interests like in sims 1 and the ability to change them as long as it didn't conflict with their personality. I also agree with Inge Jones concerning how the traits are decided.

The best for me would have been if the traits was inherited from the parents or grand parents (sometimes traits skip one generation), and decided by events growing up. So we had the abilty to change inherited traits we did'nt want, but it should take some effort.

Kofforda<3
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Field Researcher
#20 Old 30th May 2014 at 4:17 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SciBirg
TS3 bugged me so much with its 'digital' ON/OFF thinking. In TS2 you could have DEGREES of a trait, not just on or off. So yeah, I agree, both is my choice as well. Analog personality FTW.


I could be wrong but wasn't the points system kinda like an on/off even if it presented itself differently? Within a certain range you'd get the left end of spectrum (say, sloppy). Within another range you'd get the right end of spectrum (say, neat). Within the remaining range, you'd get neither (neutral). There wasn't a functional difference between a character having the higher end of a range versus the lower end of a range. I might be remembering wrong but I think in game there were ways to influence the personality points which makes it a bit different, but still there were only 3 categories so it is essentially the same thing.
Scholar
#21 Old 30th May 2014 at 4:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by lilliandulcia
I could be wrong but wasn't the points system kinda like an on/off even if it presented itself differently? Within a certain range you'd get the left end of spectrum (say, sloppy). Within another range you'd get the right end of spectrum (say, neat). Within the remaining range, you'd get neither (neutral). There wasn't a functional difference between a character having the higher end of a range versus the lower end of a range. I might be remembering wrong but I think in game there were ways to influence the personality points which makes it a bit different, but still there were only 3 categories so it is essentially the same thing.


I think there were 4 ranges for each (not sure I remember right, it's been a while since I read about it).

Paladins/SimWardrobes downloads: https://simfileshare.net/folder/87849/
Field Researcher
#22 Old 30th May 2014 at 4:26 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SciBirg
I think there were 4 ranges for each (not sure I remember right, it's been a while since I read about it).


http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Personality mentions low/medium/high and nothing about a 4th range.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#23 Old 30th May 2014 at 4:33 PM
In my memory there were 10 points in the bar. But I think by default you only had a certain number of points to spread between the 5 personality traits. However, mods (known as hacks in those days) soon allowed you free range.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Field Researcher
#24 Old 30th May 2014 at 4:55 PM
The points system was pretty stupid and it hardly affected a sim's behavior.

Trait system is almost perfect. Only thing I don't like about it is that the game forces you to have up to five (seven with UL) traits for an adult sim, and you can't really alter your sim's personality over time unless you buy some stupid LTR or some other weird stuff like that.

Crusader Kings II has a pretty nice trait system. You can gain or lose traits in time by doing various things, there's no limit as to how many you can have AND most importantly, when you create a character every trait adds years to his / her life, so if you want to create an OP character that has 20 traits you can do that, but they'll be near the end of their life. I think it's a good way to keep balance without limiting a sim's personality.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#25 Old 30th May 2014 at 6:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by JackieSmith
The points system was pretty stupid and it hardly affected a sim's behavior.

Talking shit out of your ass again, I see.

There are obvious behavioral differences between a sim with 2 neatness points and 6 neatness points. One will sometimes AUTONOMOUSLY lick a plate clean after a meal, and sometimes AUTONOMOUSLY belch, and sometimes AUTONOMOUSLY go through the trash. The other will AUTONOMOUSLY clean and actually benefit from it mood-wise.

A sim with the Evil trait can take "evil showers" and "evil naps", but there are no gameplay or visual differences from regular showers and naps. It's all bark and no bite.

Tell me again which system hardly affects a sim's behavior.
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