It's just the ultimate slap in the face that they can't go the whole hog and just call them a couple. You wouldn't get these types of hints and nudges with any straight families, so why should the gay ones be treated any differently?

Because some people are ignorant and EA likes to pander to ignorant people.

If you're referring to the "disagree" - it's mine. It's not because I disagree with same sex couples - I'm fine with them (and have had them in my game on occasion). It's because I disagree that EA would necessarily intentionally set up a lesbian to be "convertible." I have lots of issues with EA, but I don't find that lack of gay-friendliness in The Sims to be one of them. I don't think they've been unfriendly. Do I think they'll have a pre-made same sex couple - no, not really. No reason to take that amount of risk in alienating a section of of the fanbase (or parent-base) and losing sales and some parents have issues with kids and "gay talk" and the target age for Sims seems, unfortunately, to be getting lower. But that's just pragmatism, from a business standpoint (do any of the game ratings have anything to say on the matter of homosexuality, btw - I mean, would it be allowed?). But if EA did have such a couple, I don't think they necessarily set them up to be converted. Would they easily go either way - well yes, probably, but don't all the straight premades easily go gay? Actually, did they all start on neutral in TS2? Can't recall.

I mean, EA did have civil unions in TS2 and gay marriage in TS3...and sometimes we just don't realize how very much public opinion has moved (regarding gay marriage) in just these last four years.

It's not just alienation, the game would be banned in some countries, simple as that. Just look at modern day Russia.

Ignoring or acting like it's just an anomaly will not make it go away. Homosexuality is here and out in the open, why should someone being against still want to be so vocal about it, in 2013. Didn't do anything to stop it during the whole human history and if it's not part of your life, why worry about what is in someone else's life. Same as being in the game, so what!

I am more concern if a person is good and thoughtful of others, don't live to cause harm and not a serial killer or pedophile. I don't care about who sleep with whom and what they do in their love life. I admire any couple straight or gay that can make their lives work and successful, filled with love and happiness.

Okay, my statements might be social political, leftist liberalism stuff and don't belong in the game but I am tired of some person with the holier than thou attitude sticking what they want others to live by in everyone's life. Even if they are miserable while living in their own. Allowing someone to have all types of diversity in their OWN games where Sims don't give a care what color, sexuality or whatever that would be against the majority doesn't define whether they will socialize with them. Just my two cents and now I will leave it alone before this goes off topic.

I want to agree that they're not that bad, they wouldn't do that... but then I remembered Circe Beaker. She starts out bisexual. She's equally, positively attracted to men and women at the start of the game. But it's set at a low level and she's married to a man. So knowing that, I can't believe that if EA were to include an outright gay couple, they wouldn't set the attraction low enough to be changed with a low level flirt from a man. It'd appease a lot of bigots who truly believe lesbians can be cured when they meet the right man.

does anyone know when we'll get any new info on the game? do we have to wait like a month until the next broadcast which will probably just showcase CAS or some basic build/buy mode?
do they really have NOTHING planned to tell us!? i can't believe this..

i also thinks it's ironic how infidelity = ok!! but homosexuality = TABOO

Humans are stupid like that. Like how the Ambitions cover had to be altered for certain regions to remove working woman.

It's just disgusting. -_-

Lewis, I agree with you. However, the real world still doesn't. Just this week, a transgender person was beaten to death in New York in an apparent hate crime. There have been a significant number of assaults in New York on gay couples over the last several months, in the very city that gave rise to the gay rights movement. And, as babele has pointed out, the game would be outright banned in a country like Russia, and certainly Islamist countries, although that's mostly true now anyway (then again, I know there are players in Iran, but they have to get the game smuggled in to them, which may be the one form of piracy I think is justifiable).

While I am all for EA providing easy access to adjust gender preference as easily as by directing a flirt, I cannot fault EA for not providing pre-made gay couples in a game world. That is one reality even EA, with the best of intentions (hypothetically, of course, as it is EA we're talking about), cannot overcome.

I'm not buying this conspiracy of EA fixing the sims sexuality when they can't even be bothered to make them look decent. I think you guys are reading too much into this.

I have always been happy with the way EA implemented same sex relations. It's there for those who want, and can be ignored by those who don't want it.

I am quite happy to say that I got to marry Dustin Broke too, and laughed as Angela was burnt to a crisp in a room with an oven and no door. Shh, don't tell him that. :P

Do you guys forget about Mass Effect and Dragon Age? Those two game series are under EA, they are MASSIVE and feature same-sex romances and EA does not shy away from it whatsoever.

Does nobody remember one of the sims 3 trailers showing off a clear same-sex marriage scene?

I just mean this is not something you can fault EA, they have been inclusive from a long time now. They aren't doing it perfectly (Would be great to have a neutral gender choice that has just no gender limitations for clothes and hair etc) but they are part of the few companies in that industry that actually embraces it.

I see and understand everyone are not as free as I am with my thinking and ideology. I thank the heavens that I am not in those places, nor lived in the times of slavery because I know I will be a dead doorknob, I can't and will not shut my mouth when a person's right to live is threatened by whatever psycho babble others live by.

Yeah, EA has allowed for a gay couple to be created in the game with a single flirt, just a shame that is the way the game could be played in most parts of the world because of closed minds.

i find it interesting how maxis at first thought that the sims would fail.

I still remember reviews from that time that said that The Sims was a very terrible game in countless ways. Also many were still traumatised back then by the Tamagotchi hype and feared that this would be the PC equivalent.

Babele, do you remember where you seen that? I thought I seen something like "they thought it would fail" and a CEO stating there was talk of stopping the sims series. I can't remember the time I read that or where.

The best way to make progress is to throw it in people's faces and make them deal with it. Shying away from issues to appease bigots is not the way to do that. If EA really are as gay-friendly as they appear, then they need to stand by their convictions; throw a gay couple in each town and treat them like any other family. Gay people are a part of life and we aren't going anywhere. The sooner people accept that, the better.

I really didn't mean to rant this much.

That Maxis themselves thought that it would fail was mentioned in the link to joystiq that I posted on the previous page: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/08/05/h...-relationships/
The bad reviews from 2000? Sorry, can't give you any links for those

The Sims 4. Always online. It's the future. Deal with it.

It's always easy to stand on the top of a mountain and shout down into the valley and take pleasure in your reverberating voice. It's not so easy when you're at the bottom of the valley and try to shout up towards the mountain.
I am sorry, but I don't like the idea of "forced enlightenment". Not at all.

The negative response to SimCity 2013 is at least part of the reason why EA have outright stated that The Sims 4 won't have always online. Clearly the message got through.

Most civil rights issues weren't corrected by the affected parties and their supporters sitting on their arses doing nothing. Sometimes society needs a kick up the backside.

Besides, it's not like anyone is forcing you to play as gay characters. You can just ignore those families or even just evict them if their existence upsets you so much.

Accusing someone of bigotry unless they conform to your opinions isn't very open minded. And in my opinion, is no way to make progress at all.

If you want respect, you need pay respect back

Wait... what? The only usage of "bigot" here is for people who would be intolerant of LGB+ representation in the games... which is kind of the definition of "bigot."

But, um, I promise I'm not trying to get into this debate. (As much as I would normally enjoy and want such debates, it feels like we're heading into flame war territory and I don't want to go the route of the thread that got locked for the sexism debate.) Just pointing out what looks to me like a non-sequitur. And as someone whose opinions are more "drastic" and would thus have reason to keep this going (AKA I'm not trying to silence zavvi, since I largely agree with them)... I don't think we need to keep going.

This isn't a petty argument over something trivial, issues like this fuel homophobia and that causes discrimination, mental and physical abuse (both external and self), and sometimes even murder. Even the smallest things contribute to this.

It's difficult to respect the opinions of others when we're not on a level playing field and they support continued bigotry. Why should I respect opinions that confer to me less rights and treat me as second class?

People are welcome to their opinions (I don't recall anyone saying otherwise, honestly), just don't get upset if you say something bigoted and then get called out on it.

It seems to me there's far too much of a push to respect opinions in order to make people feel comfortable and not enough to respect people's issues because that makes us uncomfortable.

I honestly don't go on every site with the intention to rile people up, but I'm the type who will call out bigotry when I see it because it just doesn't sit right with me. This thread just proves how far-reaching this mindset is and why EA needs to treat gay families the same in order to help break it.

Would still be better than nothing though.