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- General - Actual political decisions in game, ideas?
#1
18th Oct 2018 at 8:23 PM
Posts: 193
Actual political decisions in game, ideas?
Hi!Just started playing again after a break and noticed that the mayor in my hood had a wish to retire and I was thinking about who would replace her. I have two sims in the politics career track with very different profiles and they would definitely make different decisions if they actually WERE mayors that had anything to say. And a lot of the decisions in game could be viewed as political priorities. At the moment Ophelia Girardet (current mayor) are very much in agreement mostly because I have not been thinking about her political profile besides winning the popularity contest.
But the alternatives:
1. Fortune/family stay-at-home mother turned politician when kids turns to teen and starts leaving for university.
2. Popularity single gay guy living with his brother, also a bit of a romancer, that loves to paint
They don't want the same things for the development of the hood! For instance, the idea of apartments (currently none), a nightclub (you have to go downtown), weather mothers should automatically get the vacation days after delivery (now they do, but I have been thinking about a mod), if there should be a fee connected to the school bus in the morning (now it´s free), any type of building code or permit (very unregulated and houses develop according to need).. The list goes on. They will not agree. And I´m not really interested in a taxation system as I believe they get taxed before the money enters the households since I don't manage any schools or roads.
Does anybody play with this kind of varying politics? Because one of them will be deciding for at least 15 days until retirement but it would be fun to include more elements of actual game-play effects.
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#2
18th Oct 2018 at 8:29 PM
Posts: 3,583
Thanks: 129 in 2 Posts
I don't exactly understand why the two sims would not agree on some of those points. No one with any sense would disagree with parental leave.
#3
18th Oct 2018 at 8:41 PM
Posts: 5,656
Thanks: 1031 in 5 Posts
Well these days, large percentages of the population have no damn sense. So I suppose it's realistic.
insert signature here
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
#4
18th Oct 2018 at 8:42 PM
Posts: 193
Quote: Originally posted by Rosawyn
I don't exactly understand why the two sims would not agree on some of those points. No one with any sense would disagree with parental leave. |
It's not like one of them don't want parental leave, but I think that Kevin is more inclined to promote that parents will be able to choose how parental leave will be divided between parents, Rosie might think that parental leave are one of the few benefits new mothers get.
But there exists people irl who don't think parental leave are a good thing, however, they are not present in my hood in the sims :p
#5
18th Oct 2018 at 8:56 PM
Posts: 3,583
Thanks: 129 in 2 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by existerande
but I think that Kevin is more inclined to promote that parents will be able to choose how parental leave will be divided between parents |
Well, he's the one in the right then. So long as the total parental leave days is still the same, letting new parents decide for themselves how to divide/use parental leave isn't in any way taking away from the person who just gave birth; that person could still choose to use all the days themselves! Or they could both stay home together for some days, and that could be even more helpful for getting used to taking care of a new baby.
Fees for school buses are an awful idea, though, and you'd have to be some kind of Ebeneezer Scrooge level capitalist to be in favour of that (we have school bus fees where I live, and it's completely ridiculous). But with regards to the other things you mentioned, I think most people could see both benefits and downsides to things like apartments, nightclubs, and building codes. I think it really depends on how you'd role play each character, but I think for realism sake, it shouldn't just be about what that sim wants but also based on what they believe the constituents want. Most people can't stay in office long if people don't keep voting for them, after all. I think maybe it would work best to consider not only what the current mayor wants but also what you believe to be the opinions of other people in the Political career (who would likely speak up at meetings, I think) as well as the opinions of wealthy/influential sims in other careers. Maybe the local Rock God would throw their support behind a nightclub as a potential venue for performances. Maybe the local City Planner is concerned about safety or urban sprawl. The local Celebrity Chef might push for a new restaurant.
Mad Poster
#6
19th Oct 2018 at 12:29 AM
Posts: 3,562
If stuff has to be paid for--like in reality, not in vanilla sims--then money has to come from somewhere.
I've heard from a very few childless people that they shouldn't have to subsidize anything for children, such as schools, etc, from taxes, since they don't use those benefits, and that would not only include not paying taxes to cover school buses but also feeling that it is unfair that they have to pick up the slack for coworkers gone on maternity leave, so maternity leave shouldn't be offered. Ultra-anarcho-libertarians, I guess!
Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
I've heard from a very few childless people that they shouldn't have to subsidize anything for children, such as schools, etc, from taxes, since they don't use those benefits, and that would not only include not paying taxes to cover school buses but also feeling that it is unfair that they have to pick up the slack for coworkers gone on maternity leave, so maternity leave shouldn't be offered. Ultra-anarcho-libertarians, I guess!
Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
#7
19th Oct 2018 at 1:17 AM
Posts: 2,337
Thanks: 4862 in 69 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by existerande
Does anybody play with this kind of varying politics? |
Honestly, I'm so exhausted by real world politics that I can no longer even muster up the desire to have it be apart of my game, and have removed all aspects of it from gameplay.
“Seize the time... Live now! Make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again.” ― Jean-Luc Picard
#8
19th Oct 2018 at 1:26 AM
Last edited by Nalia : 20th Oct 2018 at 12:28 AM.
Posts: 1,780
Quote: Originally posted by PenelopeT
Honestly, I'm so exhausted by real world politics that I can no longer even muster up the desire to have it be apart of my game, and have removed all aspects of it from gameplay. |
Same here. Mayor in my town is always a female Sim whose job is,
a) to spread juicy gossips
b) to accept donations for building new community facilities and beautify the 'hood, and,
c) to spread juicy gossips - did I say that?
#9
19th Oct 2018 at 1:49 AM
Last edited by Sunrader : 19th Oct 2018 at 2:14 AM.
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 3 in 1 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by Sunbee
If stuff has to be paid for--like in reality, not in vanilla sims--then money has to come from somewhere. I've heard from a very few childless people that they shouldn't have to subsidize anything for children, such as schools, etc, from taxes, since they don't use those benefits, and that would not only include not paying taxes to cover school buses but also feeling that it is unfair that they have to pick up the slack for coworkers gone on maternity leave, so maternity leave shouldn't be offered. Ultra-anarcho-libertarians, I guess! |
I, too, don't play politics, not fun for me, but I do recall one occasion when I had issues with parental leave. It was way back when my ex was in a high-stress, high level job, with a high salary, good enough, but he was starting his career older than many of his contemporaries, so we were done having kids at that point. Other people in the same job who were having babies (and nannies and all the stuff that rich people have when they have babies) got something like 5 months off with pay, a HUGE benefit, especially in a very competitive, very high stress job, with big benefits and pay, anyway. This benefit was completely unavailable and unmatched for people who were simply too old to be having babies. I did think that was unfair. FWIW, it also introduced an almost impossible to avoid bias against hiring young women (or men in this case) who might appear to be about to up and have a baby in the first year they are hired and needed to work. The reality might be a bit more complex than the stereotypical idea that parental leave just benefits working-class moms who need it.
But, me, I give all my sims all the time in the world off with no pesky aging, as well as unlimited money and hobbies and my kids don't have to go to school unless they want to. We are all much more concerned with learning the next spell and creating the next great masterpiece.
#10
19th Oct 2018 at 2:05 AM
I have two parties, but my idea of sim politics is far removed from real-world issues. It's very tongue in cheek and humorous. I have the Llama party and the Freezer Bunny party. No real-life policies. I would rather remove myself from real-world issues. To me sims are not human so don't have the same issues.
My Mayor pays the school teachers wages
Gives and takes compost bins
Tries to pay the town debt of about 150K back by financial planning and the podium.
gets voted on by popularity.
Freezer Bunny party -like freezer bunnies! Freezer bunnies for the win! Decorate your yard and home with them!
Llama party -no choose Llamas, they are furry!
My Mayor pays the school teachers wages
Gives and takes compost bins
Tries to pay the town debt of about 150K back by financial planning and the podium.
gets voted on by popularity.
Freezer Bunny party -like freezer bunnies! Freezer bunnies for the win! Decorate your yard and home with them!
Llama party -no choose Llamas, they are furry!
"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
#11
19th Oct 2018 at 2:27 AM
Posts: 3,583
Thanks: 129 in 2 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
To me sims are not human so don't have the same issues. |
This is actually very true. Many of the issues my sims have run up against would never happen irl...prime example being the time a teenage head of a household (recently orphaned) found she was disallowed from asking anyone to watch her younger siblings while she went to work/school. It was based, as far as I could determine, solely on her age, because even having her "adopt" her little sister with the Sim Blender didn't help. That's not the sort of thing that a sim Mayor could fix, since it's not even the sort of thing I as the player could fix! I decided the npc nannies were corrupt and had a hold over the lawmakers at a national level. (And then I had an elderly neighbour move in with the teen and her siblings.)
#12
19th Oct 2018 at 4:34 AM
Posts: 6,223
If I have a political system, it's usually with the Progressives and the Recessives. The progressives want sex without guilt, and free food all the time. The Recessives think that the Progressives are heathen deadbeats who should pay more taxes than they do.
But usually the Mayor is the most popular person in town who buys their way into the job. The salary is ok, but it's the promise of feathering their own nest that really gets them working hard..for themselves.
Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
My other downloads are here: https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles
But usually the Mayor is the most popular person in town who buys their way into the job. The salary is ok, but it's the promise of feathering their own nest that really gets them working hard..for themselves.
Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
My other downloads are here: https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles
#13
19th Oct 2018 at 6:28 AM
Posts: 2,846
Thanks: 195 in 2 Posts
Jo, that sounds pretty cool--if I incorporated that into my game, I might choose a Flamingo Party and a Gnome Party, though.
Anyway, to the OP, I'm not sure if you want advice on the two candidates or on gameplay ideas, but since several others have given you opinions on the former, I'll chip in on the latter. Because oh, boy, do I ever have ideas about complicated ways to play sims... Now, keep in mind that my ideas are based a little bit around Build A City Challenge rules and a bit around setting up an integrated hood where everything comes from somewhere and sims do activities that relate to their careers rather than just sending them off to a rabbithole. So here we go.
Elections
So I do happen to think that running for office is a popularity contest and luckily with sims we have a handy relationship panel that tells us exactly how sims feel about each other! So voting sims choose who to vote for based on their relationship panel. First decide who are your voters--adults & up, teens & up, heirs only, landowners only, wealthy sims, supernaturals, males, females, etc., etc., whatever. Decide what's right for your hood. You could also set up rules (i.e., formulas. Did I mention my ideas rely on formulas and math? ) on whether or not eligible voters vote. Maybe everyone votes in your hood or maybe your sims are apathetic. Idk. Off the top of my head, a quick "easy" Will This Sim Vote formula for me would be Voting Chance = Active Points + Politics Interest Points X 5. Then I'd use my random number generator app to roll 1-100 and if the number is less than or equal to the sim's voting chance, then that sim will vote. If the number rolled is above, the sim will not.
From here you could do a simple popularity contest--sims vote for whichever candidate they have the most relationship points with (different ways to judge this, I consider daily first, then in case of a tie use the lifetime score). During campaign season, it'd be the candidates' jobs to get out there, meet & greet all the voters and host parties to build relationships. This was my basic original idea. I didn't really plan for the event of a tie relationship score or a voter not meeting a candidate since I was planning for a small hood, but rules could be made. I think my idea was that if this did happen, the voter would abstain and to make up for it I would tally each candidate's campaign score--each candidate would get a point for every successful campaign party (roof raisers got two points). Little tasks like that could be used to set up a mini game of sorts for candidates.
But I had also been thinking about how to incorporate sims' interests more, and how interests could be used to set up political platforms and steer neighborhood-wide goals & decisions. In this way, maybe I could revise my original idea and come up with a way to let sims vote by interests, rather than popularity (which is the way real life politics ought to go; people should vote on the platform and ideas, not party or who they like best. But I digress...).
Using Interests to Build Political Platforms
Okay, first, let me say that once you go down this route, things can get way, way complicated, especially if you try and design a system that lets your sims vote based on interests. I figured that out the hard way and eventually end up tabling my ideas for a little while. But maybe while I type, I can come up with something reasonable?
Okay, so first things first, I wrote down all the interests and wrote down some practical gameplay examples of what this interest as a platform would mean--in other words, how what kind of promises would a sim campaigning on a certain topic/interest make and what are some things that could be done on a neighborhood scale to represent a town wanting to push that topic/interest? For example, a sim with high points in Environment might choose to campaign on that topic, and as such, advocate that more parks be built and more nature and wildlife preserved. Then, if that sim won the election for mayor, some of the neighborhood changes during that sim's term would be things like building more parks for kids and creating forests, lakes, and camping spots, etc. to represent the town making more nature reserves. Sounds simple, right?
Well, where it got complicated for me is when I started thinking of sims' interests as a scale. If high points (7+) in one interest meant they advocated for specific things, then wouldn't low interest (3 and below) indicate they'd want to advocate for the opposite? Like, if a sim with a high interest in entertainment but low interest in environment got elected, would they bulldoze all the parks to make room for movie theaters, bowling alleys, and restaurants? These are the questions I think about, . I guess it's a good thing I started typing all my ideas out though, cuz I think I've come up with a solution: sims could vote for mayor using a combo of relationship and interests and the vote would also decide for a town agenda.
Elections V2
So elections would be a bit more complicated with interests. This is actually an understatement, as I tried to come up with a system where sims could vote on each issue, and then I did a quick test and ran into a problem where candidates felt the same about an issue and--let's just say it was getting crazy. And waaay too long. So new new plan. (yes I know I said new twice. ) Anyway, candidates would have to win five categories: relationship and 4 platforms. Which ever candidate wins the most categories, wins the election. Each candidate picks 1 platform/interest (Player either chooses randomly, or according to the sim's story, aspiration & personality. However, the platforms can only be extremes--i.e, the candidate has to either have 7 or more points in the interest or have 3 or less points in the interest, in order to pick it as a platform. Because the candidate should feel strongly about what their campaigning for. It'd probably also be fun to factor in nice points, too--like maybe a nice candidate would be more likely to choose an interest that they are "pro" about (i.e., have 7+ points in), while a grouchy sim would be more likely to choose an interest that they are "con" about (i.e. have 3 or less points in). Being "pro" in an interest would mean increasing neighborhood projects that support and further the interest while being "con" would mean supporting projects/initiatives to reduce or get rid of an interest.
However they choose it, each candidate picks one platform/interest, so there's a max of 4 candidates per election race. Any empty platform categories are then randomly chosen, perhaps with a preference for interests that the entire voting population feels strongly about. Also, each platform has to be different. If candidate A picks Sports as a platform, then Sports can't be voted on again. On election day, voters will vote in each category: for relationship, sims vote for the candidate they know & like best. In the case of a tie in relationship points, or if the voter doesn't know either candidate, the voter chooses the candidate that shares either their primary or secondary aspiration, with a preference for the candidate that has the voter's primary aspiration, in either of the candidate's aspiration slots (This is to avoid a tie. Basically if a voter is Fam/Pop and candidate A is W/Fam and candidate B is Pop/K, the voter will prefer the candidate that shares their primary aspiration, even if the voter's primary is the candidate's secondary aspiration. I seriously hope that makes sense, ). If aspiration can't break the tie and the sim is playful (7+ points), then the voter flips a coin to decide who wins their vote in this category. Otherwise, if relationship or aspiration can't determine a clear winner, the voter abstains in the category.
Next, the voter votes on each platform, comparing each candidate's stance and whether they agree or disagree. For the platform categories, 6 or more points in an interest means the voter is "pro" for that platform and 4 or less points mean the voter is "con." If the voter has exactly 5 points in the interest, then they are neutral on this platform and the voter votes for whomever they voted on in the relationship category, choosing, for that issue, to side with the sim they know best. If they abstained from voting in the relationship category, then the voter abstains again, unless they are playful (7+), in which case the voter flips a coin to decide who wins the category. It is possible that candidates have the same stance on some issues. If this happens, the same rules apply; the voter votes for whomever they voted on in the relationship category, choosing, for that issue, to side with the sim they know best. If they abstained from voting in the relationship category, then the voter abstains again, unless they are playful (7+), in which case the voter flips a coin to decide who wins. In this way, the voter votes in all 5 categories (relationship & 4 interest platforms). After the scores are tallied, whomever wins the most categories wins the race. In the event of a tie--like candidate A won two categories and candidate B won 2 categories and the last category is split because of all the abstains or whatever, then the candidate's campaign scores are calculated. For every successful party, the candidate gets 1 point added to their score. For every roof raiser they get 2 points and for every dud, they get -1 points. If after all that is calculated and there is still a tie, then I give up. Flip a coin.
Election Test Run
Okay, I think I'm ready for my practical voting example. The race: Mary-Sue Pleasant vs Malcolm Landgraab IV. The categories: 1. Relationship 2. Sports (Mary-Sue's issue, randomly picked) 3.Paranormal (Malcolm's issue, randomly picked) 4. Crime (Pleasantview's been having a rash of burglaries) 5. Entertainment (randomly picked)
For data, I will be using my own spreadsheet notes, and since interests get re-rolled on hood startup, my numbers may not exactly match the wikia's, but I will be using the wikia for relationship panel info. Now, for Mary-Sue and Malcolm's platforms, I rolled a series of numbers from 1-18 (total # of interests) until I found 4 categories they were passionate about (i.e., either 7+ or 3 and below). Then I considered both sims' nice points--they are both grouchy, so for each of them I picked an interest they were "con" about. For Mary-Sue, that was Sports (I wonder what that says about her marriage) and for Malcolm it was Paranormal. My Mary-Sue's platform is: against Sports (2), pro Paranormal (8), against Crime (0), and against Entertainment (4), while Malcolm is: against Sports (3), against Paranormal (1), pro Crime (6), and against Entertainment (4).
Now, of Pleasantview's and Bluewater Village's eligible 24 adult and elder sims, only ten sims decided to vote: Nina Caliente, Coral Oldie, Daniel Pleasant, Mary-Sue Pleasant, Denise Jacquet, Malcolm Landgraab IV, Checo Ramirez, Lisa Ramirez, Stephen Tinker, Jason Larson. Mary-Sue & Malcolm, as candidates, will of course be voting for themselves in all categories.
Category 1: Relationship
Nina Caliente - She doesn't know Mary-Sue or Malcolm, and doesn't share an aspiration with either candidate. She isn't playful so she abstains. Coral Oldie - though she's not close to her daughter, she doesn't know Malcolm, so she votes for Mary-Sue. Daniel Pleasant doesn't know Malcolm and votes for his wife. Denise Jacquet doesn't know either candidate, yet she shares an aspiration with both of them. Since aspiration can't help her decide and she is not playful, she abstains. Same with Checo Ramirez, Lisa Ramirez, and Jason Larson. They all abstain. Stephen Tinker doesn't know either candidate and doesn't share an aspiration with either candidate, but he is playful. He flips a coin and picks Mary-Sue. Total: Mary-Sue 4, Malcolm 1, Abstains 5 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 2: Sports
Nina and Daniel are pro sports (10) and since both candidates are against sports, they abstain. Coral is against sports (1); and since both candidates are against sports, she chooses the candidate she knows best, Mary-Sue. Denise is neutral about Sports (5); she abstains. Checo and Lisa are both pro sports (6) and since both candidates are against sports, they abstain. Stephen is against Sports (3), But both candidates are against sports and he doesn't have a relationship with either of them. Since he is playful, he flips a coin instead of abstaining and picks Mary-Sue. Jason is also against Sports (4) but since he is not playful and did not pick a candidate for Category 1, he abstains. Total: Mary-Sue 3, Malcolm 1, Abstains 6 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 3: Paranormal
Nina is neutral about Paranormal (5) and abstains. Coral (2), Daniel (1), Checo (3), Lisa (2), Stephen (2) and Jason (4) are against Paranormal and all side with Malcolm. Denise (6), however, is pro Paranormal and sides with Mary-Sue. Total: Mary-Sue 2, Malcolm 7, Abstains 1 = Malcolm wins.
Category 4: Crime
Stephen (5) and Jason (5) are neutral about Crime and abstain. Nina (4), Coral (3), Checo (4), and Lisa (2) are all against Crime and so vote for Mary-Sue, who is also against Crime. Daniel (6) and Denise (6) are pro Crime and vote for Malcolm. Total: Mary-Sue 5, Malcolm 3, Abstains 2 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 5: Entertainment
Lisa (5) is neutral about Entertainment and abstains. Coral (10), Daniel (7), Stephen (9), and Jason (8) are all pro Entertainment. Since both candidates are against entertainment, they all abstain. Nina (3), Denise (4), Checo (4) are all against Entertainment. Since both candidates are also against Entertainment and they did not know enough about either candidate to vote in Category 1, they also abstain. Total: Mary-Sue 1, Malcolm 1, Abstains 8 = Tie.
Since Mary-Sue won 3 out of 5 categories, a campaign tie breaker analysis is not needed and she wins the election. During her term she will focus on initiatives involving the campaign issues: Sports, Paranormal, Crime, & Entertainment. She can choose to either follow through on her campaign platform or use voting data to discern what voters care about and cater to them. Perhaps political history could be used to break ties in future elections...
And all that, I realize, is probablya bit so much more than anyone ever asked for, and I didn't even list out ideas for each interest! If anyone is truly interested, let me know and I'll share some of the projects for each interest. Either way, I got some good ideas out, I think, and came up with a pretty interesting system, considering a lot of the actual logistics I made up on the fly. And I got to use my Premade Info Spreadsheet! So that's something, too. I'm sure if I sat down and really worked at it, I could come up with some excel formulas to calculate votes, too. In any case, hopefully this all inspired someone else.
Anyway, to the OP, I'm not sure if you want advice on the two candidates or on gameplay ideas, but since several others have given you opinions on the former, I'll chip in on the latter. Because oh, boy, do I ever have ideas about complicated ways to play sims... Now, keep in mind that my ideas are based a little bit around Build A City Challenge rules and a bit around setting up an integrated hood where everything comes from somewhere and sims do activities that relate to their careers rather than just sending them off to a rabbithole. So here we go.
Elections
So I do happen to think that running for office is a popularity contest and luckily with sims we have a handy relationship panel that tells us exactly how sims feel about each other! So voting sims choose who to vote for based on their relationship panel. First decide who are your voters--adults & up, teens & up, heirs only, landowners only, wealthy sims, supernaturals, males, females, etc., etc., whatever. Decide what's right for your hood. You could also set up rules (i.e., formulas. Did I mention my ideas rely on formulas and math? ) on whether or not eligible voters vote. Maybe everyone votes in your hood or maybe your sims are apathetic. Idk. Off the top of my head, a quick "easy" Will This Sim Vote formula for me would be Voting Chance = Active Points + Politics Interest Points X 5. Then I'd use my random number generator app to roll 1-100 and if the number is less than or equal to the sim's voting chance, then that sim will vote. If the number rolled is above, the sim will not.
From here you could do a simple popularity contest--sims vote for whichever candidate they have the most relationship points with (different ways to judge this, I consider daily first, then in case of a tie use the lifetime score). During campaign season, it'd be the candidates' jobs to get out there, meet & greet all the voters and host parties to build relationships. This was my basic original idea. I didn't really plan for the event of a tie relationship score or a voter not meeting a candidate since I was planning for a small hood, but rules could be made. I think my idea was that if this did happen, the voter would abstain and to make up for it I would tally each candidate's campaign score--each candidate would get a point for every successful campaign party (roof raisers got two points). Little tasks like that could be used to set up a mini game of sorts for candidates.
But I had also been thinking about how to incorporate sims' interests more, and how interests could be used to set up political platforms and steer neighborhood-wide goals & decisions. In this way, maybe I could revise my original idea and come up with a way to let sims vote by interests, rather than popularity (which is the way real life politics ought to go; people should vote on the platform and ideas, not party or who they like best. But I digress...).
Using Interests to Build Political Platforms
Okay, first, let me say that once you go down this route, things can get way, way complicated, especially if you try and design a system that lets your sims vote based on interests. I figured that out the hard way and eventually end up tabling my ideas for a little while. But maybe while I type, I can come up with something reasonable?
Okay, so first things first, I wrote down all the interests and wrote down some practical gameplay examples of what this interest as a platform would mean--in other words, how what kind of promises would a sim campaigning on a certain topic/interest make and what are some things that could be done on a neighborhood scale to represent a town wanting to push that topic/interest? For example, a sim with high points in Environment might choose to campaign on that topic, and as such, advocate that more parks be built and more nature and wildlife preserved. Then, if that sim won the election for mayor, some of the neighborhood changes during that sim's term would be things like building more parks for kids and creating forests, lakes, and camping spots, etc. to represent the town making more nature reserves. Sounds simple, right?
Well, where it got complicated for me is when I started thinking of sims' interests as a scale. If high points (7+) in one interest meant they advocated for specific things, then wouldn't low interest (3 and below) indicate they'd want to advocate for the opposite? Like, if a sim with a high interest in entertainment but low interest in environment got elected, would they bulldoze all the parks to make room for movie theaters, bowling alleys, and restaurants? These are the questions I think about, . I guess it's a good thing I started typing all my ideas out though, cuz I think I've come up with a solution: sims could vote for mayor using a combo of relationship and interests and the vote would also decide for a town agenda.
Elections V2
So elections would be a bit more complicated with interests. This is actually an understatement, as I tried to come up with a system where sims could vote on each issue, and then I did a quick test and ran into a problem where candidates felt the same about an issue and--let's just say it was getting crazy. And waaay too long. So new new plan. (yes I know I said new twice. ) Anyway, candidates would have to win five categories: relationship and 4 platforms. Which ever candidate wins the most categories, wins the election. Each candidate picks 1 platform/interest (Player either chooses randomly, or according to the sim's story, aspiration & personality. However, the platforms can only be extremes--i.e, the candidate has to either have 7 or more points in the interest or have 3 or less points in the interest, in order to pick it as a platform. Because the candidate should feel strongly about what their campaigning for. It'd probably also be fun to factor in nice points, too--like maybe a nice candidate would be more likely to choose an interest that they are "pro" about (i.e., have 7+ points in), while a grouchy sim would be more likely to choose an interest that they are "con" about (i.e. have 3 or less points in). Being "pro" in an interest would mean increasing neighborhood projects that support and further the interest while being "con" would mean supporting projects/initiatives to reduce or get rid of an interest.
However they choose it, each candidate picks one platform/interest, so there's a max of 4 candidates per election race. Any empty platform categories are then randomly chosen, perhaps with a preference for interests that the entire voting population feels strongly about. Also, each platform has to be different. If candidate A picks Sports as a platform, then Sports can't be voted on again. On election day, voters will vote in each category: for relationship, sims vote for the candidate they know & like best. In the case of a tie in relationship points, or if the voter doesn't know either candidate, the voter chooses the candidate that shares either their primary or secondary aspiration, with a preference for the candidate that has the voter's primary aspiration, in either of the candidate's aspiration slots (This is to avoid a tie. Basically if a voter is Fam/Pop and candidate A is W/Fam and candidate B is Pop/K, the voter will prefer the candidate that shares their primary aspiration, even if the voter's primary is the candidate's secondary aspiration. I seriously hope that makes sense, ). If aspiration can't break the tie and the sim is playful (7+ points), then the voter flips a coin to decide who wins their vote in this category. Otherwise, if relationship or aspiration can't determine a clear winner, the voter abstains in the category.
Next, the voter votes on each platform, comparing each candidate's stance and whether they agree or disagree. For the platform categories, 6 or more points in an interest means the voter is "pro" for that platform and 4 or less points mean the voter is "con." If the voter has exactly 5 points in the interest, then they are neutral on this platform and the voter votes for whomever they voted on in the relationship category, choosing, for that issue, to side with the sim they know best. If they abstained from voting in the relationship category, then the voter abstains again, unless they are playful (7+), in which case the voter flips a coin to decide who wins the category. It is possible that candidates have the same stance on some issues. If this happens, the same rules apply; the voter votes for whomever they voted on in the relationship category, choosing, for that issue, to side with the sim they know best. If they abstained from voting in the relationship category, then the voter abstains again, unless they are playful (7+), in which case the voter flips a coin to decide who wins. In this way, the voter votes in all 5 categories (relationship & 4 interest platforms). After the scores are tallied, whomever wins the most categories wins the race. In the event of a tie--like candidate A won two categories and candidate B won 2 categories and the last category is split because of all the abstains or whatever, then the candidate's campaign scores are calculated. For every successful party, the candidate gets 1 point added to their score. For every roof raiser they get 2 points and for every dud, they get -1 points. If after all that is calculated and there is still a tie, then I give up. Flip a coin.
Election Test Run
Okay, I think I'm ready for my practical voting example. The race: Mary-Sue Pleasant vs Malcolm Landgraab IV. The categories: 1. Relationship 2. Sports (Mary-Sue's issue, randomly picked) 3.Paranormal (Malcolm's issue, randomly picked) 4. Crime (Pleasantview's been having a rash of burglaries) 5. Entertainment (randomly picked)
For data, I will be using my own spreadsheet notes, and since interests get re-rolled on hood startup, my numbers may not exactly match the wikia's, but I will be using the wikia for relationship panel info. Now, for Mary-Sue and Malcolm's platforms, I rolled a series of numbers from 1-18 (total # of interests) until I found 4 categories they were passionate about (i.e., either 7+ or 3 and below). Then I considered both sims' nice points--they are both grouchy, so for each of them I picked an interest they were "con" about. For Mary-Sue, that was Sports (I wonder what that says about her marriage) and for Malcolm it was Paranormal. My Mary-Sue's platform is: against Sports (2), pro Paranormal (8), against Crime (0), and against Entertainment (4), while Malcolm is: against Sports (3), against Paranormal (1), pro Crime (6), and against Entertainment (4).
Now, of Pleasantview's and Bluewater Village's eligible 24 adult and elder sims, only ten sims decided to vote: Nina Caliente, Coral Oldie, Daniel Pleasant, Mary-Sue Pleasant, Denise Jacquet, Malcolm Landgraab IV, Checo Ramirez, Lisa Ramirez, Stephen Tinker, Jason Larson. Mary-Sue & Malcolm, as candidates, will of course be voting for themselves in all categories.
Category 1: Relationship
Nina Caliente - She doesn't know Mary-Sue or Malcolm, and doesn't share an aspiration with either candidate. She isn't playful so she abstains. Coral Oldie - though she's not close to her daughter, she doesn't know Malcolm, so she votes for Mary-Sue. Daniel Pleasant doesn't know Malcolm and votes for his wife. Denise Jacquet doesn't know either candidate, yet she shares an aspiration with both of them. Since aspiration can't help her decide and she is not playful, she abstains. Same with Checo Ramirez, Lisa Ramirez, and Jason Larson. They all abstain. Stephen Tinker doesn't know either candidate and doesn't share an aspiration with either candidate, but he is playful. He flips a coin and picks Mary-Sue. Total: Mary-Sue 4, Malcolm 1, Abstains 5 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 2: Sports
Nina and Daniel are pro sports (10) and since both candidates are against sports, they abstain. Coral is against sports (1); and since both candidates are against sports, she chooses the candidate she knows best, Mary-Sue. Denise is neutral about Sports (5); she abstains. Checo and Lisa are both pro sports (6) and since both candidates are against sports, they abstain. Stephen is against Sports (3), But both candidates are against sports and he doesn't have a relationship with either of them. Since he is playful, he flips a coin instead of abstaining and picks Mary-Sue. Jason is also against Sports (4) but since he is not playful and did not pick a candidate for Category 1, he abstains. Total: Mary-Sue 3, Malcolm 1, Abstains 6 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 3: Paranormal
Nina is neutral about Paranormal (5) and abstains. Coral (2), Daniel (1), Checo (3), Lisa (2), Stephen (2) and Jason (4) are against Paranormal and all side with Malcolm. Denise (6), however, is pro Paranormal and sides with Mary-Sue. Total: Mary-Sue 2, Malcolm 7, Abstains 1 = Malcolm wins.
Category 4: Crime
Stephen (5) and Jason (5) are neutral about Crime and abstain. Nina (4), Coral (3), Checo (4), and Lisa (2) are all against Crime and so vote for Mary-Sue, who is also against Crime. Daniel (6) and Denise (6) are pro Crime and vote for Malcolm. Total: Mary-Sue 5, Malcolm 3, Abstains 2 = Mary-Sue wins.
Category 5: Entertainment
Lisa (5) is neutral about Entertainment and abstains. Coral (10), Daniel (7), Stephen (9), and Jason (8) are all pro Entertainment. Since both candidates are against entertainment, they all abstain. Nina (3), Denise (4), Checo (4) are all against Entertainment. Since both candidates are also against Entertainment and they did not know enough about either candidate to vote in Category 1, they also abstain. Total: Mary-Sue 1, Malcolm 1, Abstains 8 = Tie.
Since Mary-Sue won 3 out of 5 categories, a campaign tie breaker analysis is not needed and she wins the election. During her term she will focus on initiatives involving the campaign issues: Sports, Paranormal, Crime, & Entertainment. She can choose to either follow through on her campaign platform or use voting data to discern what voters care about and cater to them. Perhaps political history could be used to break ties in future elections...
And all that, I realize, is probably
"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO
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XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
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#14
19th Oct 2018 at 7:59 AM
Last edited by FranH : 19th Oct 2018 at 8:17 AM.
Posts: 6,223
Wow-that post was certainly enlightening! The "Interests" part is what got my attention. In RL elections, most people vote for what they think is important, of course-as shown in the title of this article of "The Hill": 'Poll: 44 percent say they would vote for a candidate prioritizing both health care, lower taxes'
In my ranking, these would be the issues that candidates for Mayor would have platforms on:
Money-where do those tax dollars go?
Crime-the cops need to get the bad guys!
Work-the voters need jobs!
Environment-we all need clean air and water.
Food-we need to eat good food.
School: Education is important!
Health: a healthy populace is a happy populace!
The other interests don't really get representation because they're only personally important. But those that I've listed are pretty relevant to everyone who pays attention to any political party in pixel land or real life.
Another idea-using the 'social rating' of a candidate to show how popular they are among the people. If you're an 'average cabbage', you're going to lose out to the person who's a 'social celebrity', in all reality. Their personality must come into play somewhere along the line.
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In my ranking, these would be the issues that candidates for Mayor would have platforms on:
Money-where do those tax dollars go?
Crime-the cops need to get the bad guys!
Work-the voters need jobs!
Environment-we all need clean air and water.
Food-we need to eat good food.
School: Education is important!
Health: a healthy populace is a happy populace!
The other interests don't really get representation because they're only personally important. But those that I've listed are pretty relevant to everyone who pays attention to any political party in pixel land or real life.
Another idea-using the 'social rating' of a candidate to show how popular they are among the people. If you're an 'average cabbage', you're going to lose out to the person who's a 'social celebrity', in all reality. Their personality must come into play somewhere along the line.
Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
My other downloads are here: https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles
#15
19th Oct 2018 at 8:47 AM
Posts: 193
Quote: Originally posted by Phantomknight
Anyway, to the OP, I'm not sure if you want advice on the two candidates or on gameplay ideas, but since several others have given you opinions on the former, I'll chip in on the latter. .. Okay, so first things first, I wrote down all the interests and wrote down some practical gameplay examples of what this interest as a platform would mean--in other words, how what kind of promises would a sim campaigning on a certain topic/interest make and what are some things that could be done on a neighborhood scale to represent a town wanting to push that topic/interest? For example, a sim with high points in Environment might choose to campaign on that topic, and as such, advocate that more parks be built and more nature and wildlife preserved. Then, if that sim won the election for mayor, some of the neighborhood changes during that sim's term would be things like building more parks for kids and creating forests, lakes, and camping spots, etc. to represent the town making more nature reserves. Sounds simple, right? |
More on gameplay actually since I have been thinking about different ways a new mayor might change things in the hood. I think I would go for hobby-based instead of interest based since it is fewer of them, and it is a game mechanics that I regularly look at. Might not do a full excel set-up but some sort of interest would be fun to incorporate. And it would affect what type of new areas will be developed in the hood, currently few sports-areas and only two parks.
Rosie hobbies are nature, science and music.
Kevin have high enthusiasm in music, cuisine, games and nature (I remebered wrong, it was his brother that painted)
Since Kevin is more interested in social things, development of the local clubs with addition of gaming arcade, a nightclub and some restaurants might be in order. Currently in the hood it is only one diner, otherwise you have to go downtown. Rosie might instead want a local jazz-club that only have live music and more of an espresso type bar, probably develop a venue for stargazing and both of them agree on the need for more parks, perhaps a community garden? Everyone already have the possibility to plant on their backyard, but it might be nice to meet others and to make an effort in order to create habitats for interesting birds and bugs. And rosie might disagree with Kevin on the nightclub due to the noise and increased traffic in the area.
The real- life issues that have been discussed locally after the elections when the municipality that I live in (new majority in the local parliament after the elections) range from removing the free bus-cards from school-aged children and instead giving two free bus-rides a day, stop exploitation of a new neighborhood because the people living there want the school and the road, but not people living in apartments close-by (the school and the road was planned due to 500 new residents). What they do want however is to make it easier for restaurants to get permits for serving alcohol and security cameras on more locations. I did not vote for them so might only see the "bad" sides
In sim-hood this might be some sort of fee for bus-rides, since all of them have the option to walk (I have no idea where the school is but they seem to get there on time), that apartments will be in a sub-hood in order for a suburban sprawl in the main hood to develop, no new community lots that are not privately owned.. Regular game-play that in this case would be regulated by the mayors perceived ideology.
#16
19th Oct 2018 at 8:52 AM
Posts: 193
Quote: Originally posted by FranH
Health: a healthy populace is a happy populace! |
Unrelated idea: A family sim (primary or secondary) with high health interest and/or have been working within medicine could be inclined to open a soup-kitchen in order to manage the local flu epidemic!
#17
19th Oct 2018 at 2:14 PM
Posts: 5,219
Interesting thread, @phantomKnight inspiring post that tempts me to establish my own political vote, albeit my gameplay doesn't include politics. Good incorperation to use interest as means of shaping the hood. I mainly had them depend on what sim will be doing for a living or what duties/tasks they willl take.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Forum Resident
#18
19th Oct 2018 at 7:20 PM
Posts: 678
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking OP (are you just describing the political policies of your two sims?) so please excuse me for simply describing the way that I play "politics" and leaving it at that!
I hold elections for a mayor when I have at least two sims at the right level in the politics career track. Each sim running must choose a party colour, and then wear an outfit of the right colour when they run (to distinguish between political candidates.) The election consists of a series of events, each one is a party: a house party, a sports party, a formal party* and a pool party*. (*these parties are possible using a mod.)
Each party score goes into a weighted average that determines the ultimate winner of the race. The caveat is that the candidate hosting the party must make a speech during it. This adds a challenge (gotta keep the party score up before and after that speech) and the host must schmooze invited guests to make that happen. The other caveat is that a sim cannot win by inviting just one friend. Every sim who shows up and has a good time is likely to donate to the campaign, and the more donations, the better the party the candidate sim can throw next time. But wait -there's more. Only sims who are part of the influential elite can be impressed by an election party. Sims need to invite business owners, bankers, and other political sims to ensure that their party can win. The more influential friends a political sim makes, the more they can invite to help them throw great parties. The winning sim is the one that has the most successful parties with both the elite and the common sims. I'm deciding whether it's worth having sims invite 'common' sims to one type of party, and elite sims to another, so that theoretically I could have a candidate win the popular vote but lose the election...
I hold elections for a mayor when I have at least two sims at the right level in the politics career track. Each sim running must choose a party colour, and then wear an outfit of the right colour when they run (to distinguish between political candidates.) The election consists of a series of events, each one is a party: a house party, a sports party, a formal party* and a pool party*. (*these parties are possible using a mod.)
Each party score goes into a weighted average that determines the ultimate winner of the race. The caveat is that the candidate hosting the party must make a speech during it. This adds a challenge (gotta keep the party score up before and after that speech) and the host must schmooze invited guests to make that happen. The other caveat is that a sim cannot win by inviting just one friend. Every sim who shows up and has a good time is likely to donate to the campaign, and the more donations, the better the party the candidate sim can throw next time. But wait -there's more. Only sims who are part of the influential elite can be impressed by an election party. Sims need to invite business owners, bankers, and other political sims to ensure that their party can win. The more influential friends a political sim makes, the more they can invite to help them throw great parties. The winning sim is the one that has the most successful parties with both the elite and the common sims. I'm deciding whether it's worth having sims invite 'common' sims to one type of party, and elite sims to another, so that theoretically I could have a candidate win the popular vote but lose the election...
#19
19th Oct 2018 at 8:43 PM
Posts: 193
Quote: Originally posted by terula8
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking OP (are you just describing the political policies of your two sims?) so please excuse me for simply describing the way that I play "politics" and leaving it at that! |
I am still thinking about the election process, so that is interesting too But I started the thread mainly to hear how the choise of a new mayor might affect gameplay. It would feel strange to host some sort of election and then not letting it affect anything in the hood. It could be promises during election or something else.
Since I have two candidates it feels easier to take them as examples instead of just a theory
#20
19th Oct 2018 at 10:34 PM
Posts: 2,846
Thanks: 195 in 2 Posts
@terula8, I like the idea of hosting different types of parties for different constituent groups. I could totally see candidates throwing some barbeques to influence the less wealthy sims and then hosting fancy parties for the rich. I was toying with the idea of donations, too, but hadn't found a natural way to implement them. But maybe outings are the solution? Any gifts candidates get after could be the donation. Hmm, I wonder if there's a tip jar mod, too.
I agree; that's why I was thinking of using the mayor and elections to influence anything I might do in the neighborhood screen, using it as a way to get building ideas. But things could even affect sims on a more personal level. Maybe the current mayor's policies affect taxes or who gets a loan or what kids learn in school, etc., etc.
Is it just the mayor in charge? Is there also a town council or other representatives that could help shape things?
Quote: Originally posted by existerande
It would feel strange to host some sort of election and then not letting it affect anything in the hood. |
I agree; that's why I was thinking of using the mayor and elections to influence anything I might do in the neighborhood screen, using it as a way to get building ideas. But things could even affect sims on a more personal level. Maybe the current mayor's policies affect taxes or who gets a loan or what kids learn in school, etc., etc.
Is it just the mayor in charge? Is there also a town council or other representatives that could help shape things?
"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO
XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
Bored? Read an unfinished legacy or sim story. | aka Kelyns | she/her
XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
Bored? Read an unfinished legacy or sim story. | aka Kelyns | she/her
#21
19th Oct 2018 at 10:46 PM
Game-wise the mayor is top of the political career, and there are some sim job levels that you could also use for decision making in your hood - (5 is a city council member, 6 is a state assemblyperson, 7 is a congressperson)
Uh oh! My social bar is low - that's why I posted today.
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#22
19th Oct 2018 at 10:58 PM
Posts: 6,223
I've always wondered why that was done-in RL, running for Mayor precedes (usually) running for higher offices such as Governor, Congressman and the Senate.I guess Maxis liked sticking to their old SimCity roots by doing so.
Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
My other downloads are here: https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles
Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
My other downloads are here: https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles
Forum Resident
#23
20th Oct 2018 at 12:01 AM
Posts: 678
Quote: Originally posted by Phantomknight
@terula8, I like the idea of hosting different types of parties for different constituent groups. I could totally see candidates throwing some barbeques to influence the less wealthy sims and then hosting fancy parties for the rich. I was toying with the idea of donations, too, but hadn't found a natural way to implement them. But maybe outings are the solution? Any gifts candidates get after could be the donation. Hmm, I wonder if there's a tip jar mod, too. I agree; that's why I was thinking of using the mayor and elections to influence anything I might do in the neighborhood screen, using it as a way to get building ideas. But things could even affect sims on a more personal level. Maybe the current mayor's policies affect taxes or who gets a loan or what kids learn in school, etc., etc. Is it just the mayor in charge? Is there also a town council or other representatives that could help shape things? |
Some good ideas there @Phantomknight! I love the idea of using the tip jar or doing outings as well!
@existerande, I think I get what you're asking now - you want to know how to have your mayor make an impact on your hood? If I've got it right, then I'll try to share what I normally do there too lol. I typically use the interest panel to work out what kinds of things a mayor might be most keen to do in their city. I also pull in any political friends of theirs as part of the 'party' and make them responsible for specific things that it would be too much for the mayor to own. Mayors in my hoods do a lot: they set up public transit systems, build and furnish schools, take care of parks, museums, city pools, and libraries, police and fire stations, and hospitals. They also own the tax office, driving schools, and the courts of law. With all that, there's plenty for them to decide on, so I just go by interests and the sim's personality. Scandals are fun too!
Lab Assistant
#24
20th Oct 2018 at 10:59 AM
Posts: 129
Quote: Originally posted by FranH
In my ranking, these would be the issues that candidates for Mayor would have platforms on: Money-where do those tax dollars go? Crime-the cops need to get the bad guys! Work-the voters need jobs! Environment-we all need clean air and water. Food-we need to eat good food. School: Education is important! Health: a healthy populace is a happy populace! |
I agree that these seem to be the "core issues", but I think there's a few others that could be interesting in a mayoral platform, especially for sims with strong interests in those areas:
Culture: how much funding should the city give to cultural centres? Do we build that new public library, theatre, concert hall? Should museums and art galleries be free to the general populace, or do they need to make money by charging for entrance? (in practical gameplay terms, which lots get bandatrons?)
Sports, Entertainment: as with Culture, interest in these could determine funding priorities & what sort of venues get built/improved/subsidised under the mayor's tenure
Paranormal: relevant to cities with a large supernatural populace, especially if there's established pre-existing conflicts around said populace (e.g. aliens in Strangetown). What's the government's position on supernaturals? What rights do supernaturals have, and how are these balanced with the rights of mundane sims? Is vampire sunblock distributed en-masse to allow these hard-working citizens to live ordinary lives? Or is your government more the kind to distribute vamprocillin-D and implore all vampires to take it - only you can prevent neck-biting! Perhaps creating new zombies/vampires/werewolves is considered criminal activity - what are the penalties?
Politics: Possibly a little bit meta, but does your candidate have a position on how much power the mayor's office should hold? Do they want more (or fewer) seats on the city council? Perhaps they're after electoral reform - if they win, they could change the rules for the next election!
#25
20th Oct 2018 at 12:21 PM
Posts: 5,219
I think Sci-Fi would be more incline or be perceive as a seperate study from paranormal regarding of maintaining good relation with aliens. Perhaps find ways to handle and provide preventions/precaution for citizens that are lately getting abducted and for others who haven't to be prepared from such kidnappers.. As for animal interest, perhaps the leaders would be classified as animal activist and along with those who have this common passion interest for animals would brainstorm ways to fund/open up more slots for animal sheltering, invest into rescuing stray animals or those who been mistreated by abusive owners. That could somewhat tie in with Environment.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
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