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Test Subject
#26 Old 8th Jan 2015 at 2:49 PM
Actually I was in a restaurant the other day when the manager had to go over and ask a group of teens/young adults to calm the hell down or leave! Bad behaviour has no age limit

I agree with Mistermook a few posts back, sometimes its just easier to be tolerant and patient, if not, just walk away stressing the small stuff takes way to much energy.
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Theorist
#27 Old 8th Jan 2015 at 5:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Scklsy
Do you wish that some places had child-free environments, or at least some hours for it? Or do you think that kids should be allowed anywhere?


Both. Like most people, I prefer not having screaming and unsupervised kids running around me, so yes, I do wish it. On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to ban kids or impose fees. There are parents who have managed to raise very well-behaved children, even at a young age. It wouldn't be fair to penalize those parents or children. When there are obnoxious kids around, I just try to tune them out, though if it bothered me that much, I'd probably just leave.

And yes, I would agree that bad behavior has no age limit, so discriminating by age won't work.

Resident wet blanket.
Mad Poster
#28 Old 15th Jan 2015 at 8:36 PM
People say we shouldn't discipline kids, then they say we shouldn't be allowed to take them out in public. Can't have it both ways: if you want kids to be civilized they have to be disciplined.

That said, there are places that are child-free, they're called bars. If you're too young to go to one, then guess what, you might still be a child! If other places want to be child-free, well, I'm a libertarian. Post it and have at it. I also don't care if you want to ban some other group. Actually, I do care, but I choose to vote with my pocketbook rather than saying there ought to be a law. If there are enough child haters to support a supermarket without children, go for it. Some businesses make a go in spite of having posted no concealed carry, after all. It's called freedom, you know? Maybe some restaurants would go for it. There's a hotel here in my town that is adults and babies under six months only. (You, get your mind out of the gutter over there, it is a theme room hotel.) I doubt you'd get much interest from entities like zoos and amusement parks whose primary customers are parents of children.

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Undead Molten Llama
#29 Old 16th Jan 2015 at 12:57 AM
Hey, I haven't been down in this forum in...forever.

Quote: Originally posted by Sunbee
People say we shouldn't discipline kids, then they say we shouldn't be allowed to take them out in public. Can't have it both ways: if you want kids to be civilized they have to be disciplined.


This. So much this. I'll never understand why discipline has gotten such a bad name. And the irony of people complaining about unruly children while also decrying parental discipline that they see as "too harsh" is at once exasperating and terribly amusing to me.

As to the general question...I'm libertarian like Sunbee. If a business's owner doesn't want to cater to children or to allow them on the premises at all or during certain set hours, that should be their right, whether I (or anyone else) like it or not. Post it and let the chips fall where they may. I vote with my pocketbook, too. Such a business might be wildly successful...or it might meet with an outraged chorus of "But that's not FAAAAAIR! WAAAAH!"...or, well, both.

That said, I do wish a couple of things.

1) I wish that there were some adult-only places that didn't center around alcohol or sex or drugs or other "adult" things. Yes, I can go to a bar/club and be surrounded by people who are (theoretically) over the age of 21...but it's likely that a good percentage of them would be at least tipsy if not actually drunk. And if there's one thing I like less than a two-year-old having a perpetual screaming tantrum, it's a drunk person. I don't drink at all, myself, and I can't stand drunk people. (High people are just fine, in my book. But drunk people? Drunk people generally suck. ) So, I'd rather be surrounded by screaming two-year-olds than drunk adults, quite frankly, but what I'd REALLY like sometimes is to be in a social place with adult social activities like dancing or playing pool or gambling or whatever, surrounded by non-drunk adults AND no screaming children. But such a place doesn't seem to exist... and probably wouldn't be popular, anyway, since many people seem to think that you can't have a good time without alcohol. Well, a girl can dream, right?

2) I wish that some parents had common sense. No, don't take babies/toddlers/young children into movie theaters, unless it's to see a movie that's meant for young children. While your kids are young, either get a sitter for your movie night or wait until the movie comes out on video. And for the love of God, don't take babies/toddlers/children who can't sit still for at least an hour straight to classical concerts. (Screaming children were my bane when I was more of a performer. Nothing is more likely to shatter my concentration than a randomly-screaming toddler.) Don't waltz into a five-star restaurant and demand a high chair (which such restaurants don't have) for your two-year-old and then get all pissy when you're refused. (I've seen it happen. Many times.) Don't take young children to places that you think will "enrich" them but that they are still too young to get anything out of, like art museums and other places where they aren't supposed to touch stuff. Seriously, I get that parents want to go to these places. I did, when my kids were young. But there are just some places that you simply shouldn't take your children, at least not until they're old/mature enough to actually get anything out of it. If you want to go to such places but have too-young kids, get a sitter. Everyone, including the child(ren), will be much happier. While you are the parent of a young child, you either have to pay out for a sitter to do your adult things OR you have to put off doing your adult things until your kids are old enough to be dragged along without them whining/screaming/bouncing off the walls in bored frustration the whole time. Seriously, my fellow parents, it ain't rocket science I'm talking about here. Just plain old common sense.

All that said, I think a "child fee" is rather ridiculous. There are parents who do have well-behaved children. Mine were (because they knew if they didn't behave in public there'd be dire consequences), and many children I know also had diligent parents who raised their kids well with firm-but-not-abusive discipline so that they behaved in public more often than not. But really, here's a hint: Even the best kids with the best parents ever will have their bad days, just as adults have bad, ill-behaved days. No human being is perfect regardless of age, and we all have emotions that sometimes need to be expressed. It's just that young children don't yet have the life experience to have developed strategies to do so beyond screaming their heads off. Plus, the younger a person is, the more goldfish-like their attention span is, and boredom inevitably leads to restlessness. Such is life. The only way to avoid being around screaming children on occasion is to lock yourself away from the world. And if small children annoy a person that much, then perhaps that is exactly what they should do.

Also, the more you dislike children, the more they will do their utmost best to pester you and do things that annoy you. They sense your fear, you see, and they're vicious and always go for the jugular. It works the same way with cats, too.

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Mad Poster
#30 Old 16th Jan 2015 at 3:16 AM
A child fee wouldn't ideally work. Imposing a fee because a few patrons are young is the equivalent of essentially being ageist and at that rate you might as well impose a fee for everyone whom visits the establishment. A fee for misbehaving wouldn't work either because everyone defines disobedience differently.

Also, age doesn't equal maturity nor responsibility. Simply put some people will act disruptive regardless of their calender age. I know people who are 10 years older than me and happen to commonly partake in much more disruptive behavior than I.

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

Instructor
#31 Old 18th Jan 2015 at 3:50 AM
I used to absolutely hate children and wanted them banned from ALL public places until I read this comic



And I realized that the parents DON'T really have any control over what their children do in public. The only thing they could do if they asked them to stop and they didn't is scold them, but when I see a parent scolding their child in public I think how awful they are to their child, because they are just children. And they are just kids, I mean, I did they same things they did when I was a kid and so did everyone else.
Instructor
#32 Old 19th Jan 2015 at 7:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ChinchillaJesus
Are you on drugs? I'm 16, old enough not to be a rampant running shit.


I'm 14 and honestly (don't get mad) have more wits in my left butt cheek than you have in your head.

This thread is so disrespectful ( I have a younger sister and trust me I sincerely won't scream on her to calm down just because some horny teenager wants to make out).
Inventor
#33 Old 30th Jan 2015 at 1:40 PM
I think if staff were allowed to give ONE warning, and then if ignored, ask families to leave when their children were running amok, that would solve everything.
The parent would have to take responsibility over their kid, or they'd have to leave and everyone else would be happy.

It's silly to say "all kids are like that blah blah" but I know plenty of children who are quiet when they are asked and know not to play around in public unless it's a park or something. That's called "parenting". I also know kids who are loud and unruly and you can tell why just by talking to their parents.

It's not just about the kid, it's about who they're with and the respect they have for that adult. My nephew is a monster when he's out with other people, he's 4, but whenever he's been out with me, he's been quiet and considerate, because he knows that when I say "stop or we're going home" I actually mean it. I'm also not afraid to tell him off if he does something deliberately disobedient.

All that being said, I'm in favour of "childless days" or after a certain time in some places, i think 9 is reasonable because that's the watershed on TV for swearing and stuff, plus most kids should be in bed by about that time anyway, or should be going soon. Perhaps 12 and under, because 13 is more than old enough to understand being reasonably quiet and staying still.
Guest
#34 Old 12th Feb 2015 at 12:34 AM
I was a child once, long ago. It sucks! You're dependent upon other people; want dinner? Nothing you can do about it. You don't know how to do things, things are scary. Can you imagine flying on an airplane? Pressure changes, loud roaring, people packed in like sardines, landing gear banging around... yeah. Then there's the scary adults - they may hurt you.

I like children. Totally recommend having 2 or 3, they're highly rewarding. I think you all were a child once. You think you weren't a pain in the butt at times? Yeah, you betcha.
 
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