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Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 1st May 2018 at 8:55 PM Last edited by billielith : 1st Jun 2018 at 10:57 AM.
Default SOLVED : Hair mesh not showing up
Hi,


I am working on a set of EarthBound sims. I am at trying to make hair for the character Poo. This is what I got in Milkshape so far (see image below)

I am trying to make both a child version and a teen version. For the child version, my base was Melodie9's child version of the Maxis bald head. For the teen version, I started from the Maxis bald head for teens. For the strand of hair on top, I tried to combine the bald head with a part from a maxis female mesh, the one from Nightlife with bangs on the front and 3 rings of braid in the back held together with a hair stick. I used one of the braids to make Poo's strand of hair.

I've just started over 3 times, following the steps of the beginners tutorials for meshing. It still doesn't show up properly in bodyshop. The child version shows up with the default maxis mesh with short curly hair, no strand of hair. The teen mesh doesn't show up at all, the head of the sim has a hole in the back. (Pictures below)

I've joined my meshes and recolors in case someone was kind enough to look into them and tell me what I am not doing right. I joined my Milkshape files as well.


Good day to you, and thank you in advance if anyone is kind enough to help.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: zip  FilesSoFar.zip (338.5 KB, 4 downloads) - View custom content
File Type: zip  MilkshapeFiles.zip (27.4 KB, 3 downloads) - View custom content

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 2nd May 2018 at 1:14 AM Last edited by simmer22 : 2nd May 2018 at 1:49 AM.
Looks like you've linked the meshes to the wrong 3DIRs.

Never look at the "Category" in the 3DIR when you're doing hairs - they nearly always list the wrong age, and I'm not sure if there's a pattern to it.

I always look at the material definition instance for the age I'm linking, and compare it with the one in the 3DIR. Never been wrong so far.

Using Melodie's hairs as a base may potentially cause issues since they're only enabled for certain ages. Getting the bald meshes is easy - just search in SimPE for "PREFIXhairbald", using the prefix that corresponds with the one you want to extract: pu, cu, tm, tf, af, am, em, ef (so CU and TM would be cuhairbald and tmhairbald).

You may need two mesh groups and textures for a hair like this, as the "hair" group really is the scalp texture for most hairs (takes on the skintone). The UVmap for the scalp takes most of the space, so if you want the scalp to show along with the plait, you'll need the hairy part to be a separate part of the mesh and texture. Some hairs can make do with one texture, but thoses meshes usually consist of a slightly modified scalp, and the texture is painted on it.

I don't have any access to Milkshape at the moment, so I can't look at the meshes, but make sure the meshes have the proper comments, that the mesh groups have the proper names, and that the mesh has proper bone assignments (if it's not animated, your hair should show up pink with a tiny bit of orange at the base of the neck)

I think you should get away with making a recolor of a male hair with alpha parts in Bodyshop - those are guaranteed to have at least two layers. Make the "hair" layer fully invisible, and use the alpha layer for the hair tuft. It's possible to add subsets/groups/layers to hairs, though it can be a little complicated if you're just starting out.
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#3 Old 2nd May 2018 at 4:08 AM Last edited by billielith : 9th May 2018 at 5:32 PM.
Hi there simmer22, thanks for chiming in!


BIG ah-ha moment for me. I am indeed just starting out with meshing and this is all very new for me. I indeed thought I could trust those categories in 3dir. I'll remember not to! I redid it entirely from the information in the Material Definition instances this time.

I went and found the Maxis bald meshes the way you described. As for your suggestion of using a Maxis mesh that comes in 2 parts, eureka. Thanks for suggesting that. I also followed everything else you suggested. I didn't remember about the comments of the mesh parts, that's indeed very important!

With the child version, I can see errors in the mapping of the texture, but the mesh is working! Thanks a lot. :D

With the teen version however, I still get the same error, not sure why. Everything was done in the exact same way than with the child version, except of course I used the teen version of everything. Not sure why this one behaves differently. Maybe something in the Maxis meshes.

If anyone has had this experience before, and found a solution, please tell! Meanwhile I joined pictures of my progress. I also joined my SimPE files again in case it would help.

Thanks again simmer22! I hope someone can help me fix my problem with the teen version.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: zip  v4_Files.zip (333.4 KB, 5 downloads) - View custom content

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#4 Old 2nd May 2018 at 10:48 AM
Did you try deleting the cache files? They can sometimes hinder mesh and recolor changes from showing up in Bodyshop and CAS.

What's the comments for both groups of the teen hair?
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#5 Old 2nd May 2018 at 11:48 AM Last edited by billielith : 2nd May 2018 at 12:05 PM.
Hi,

The name of the groups are hair (for the bald part), and hair_alpha5 (for the strand of hair)
The bald part's comments is this
ModelName: hair
Opacity: -1
HasTangentArray:
NumSkinWgts: 2

The strand's comments is this
ModelName: hair_alpha5
Opacity: 5
HasTangentArray:
NumSkinWgts: 3

This is all identical for the Child version as well. I have one layer hair and one layer hair_alpha5 and the comments are the same as above.

I'll look for information on how to properly delete cache files now. I didn't do that in forever!

Edit : Deleting the cache was probably a good thing, but it didn't help in this case. The hole on the teen head is the same if I just grow up the child that was wearing my child mesh, and still no thumbnail in bodyshop for the teen version of the mesh. It's as if it didn't exist.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#6 Old 2nd May 2018 at 10:49 PM
Are you sure you removed the old files?

The comments look alright (though I usually set "NumSkinWgts" to 3, because it ensures that it picks up all the bone assignments. If it's 2 or 1, it often won't mix bone assignments properly if it's assigned to more than one bone, and if it's set to "1" it picks the "heaviest" assigned bone for each vertex, and removes the rest. Shouldn't be a problem for this hair, but can be troublesome for clothes so it's worth to know).

My head is a bit mushy now, and it's late, so I'll take another look at the files tomorrow.
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#7 Old 8th May 2018 at 8:17 PM Last edited by billielith : 8th May 2018 at 9:52 PM.
Hi again simmer 22, thanks for following this

I did remove the old files. I know near to nothing about bone assignments though, thanks for trying to educate me but I barely understand what you are talking about, so sorry! I'll have to look for more information about it.

I finished the recolor of the child version. The teen version is still showing problems, I am going to try it over again. If I can't get it to work, do you think there's a way to tie my child version to the maxis bald mesh so when the sim grows he will simply go bald? I'll try to find information about that.

The pic below shows the result of the child version and the way the rest of the ages behave in bodyshop.


.
EDIT : I made a recolor of my recolor, which seems to have solved the broken Teen hair problem by using the maxis closecrop hair on all the other ages except child. I'll see if there is a way to work on this from here.
Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#8 Old 8th May 2018 at 11:33 PM
Did you delete the cache files? Every time you re-open Bodyshop after doing mesh or recolor edits you need to delete the caches, because they can sometimes cause strange things like this to happen. Making a recolor of the seemingly borked file can "fix" the problem (the files usually aren't broken, but the cache files are).

You can make an adult mesh that's just the bald hair (+ YA and elder - they use the same mesh). Shouldn't be a problem, since all the recolor files are separate for the various ages when making hairs. You could also add in a bald toddler hair.

The only way to link hairs the way you want to is to family them - but familying two different hairs can cause some bugs, so I suggest just adding bald hairs to the hair you're making.
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#9 Old 9th May 2018 at 5:44 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
Did you delete the cache files? Every time you re-open Bodyshop after doing mesh or recolor edits you need to delete the caches, because they can sometimes cause strange things like this to happen. Making a recolor of the seemingly borked file can "fix" the problem (the files usually aren't broken, but the cache files are).

You can make an adult mesh that's just the bald hair (+ YA and elder - they use the same mesh). Shouldn't be a problem, since all the recolor files are separate for the various ages when making hairs. You could also add in a bald toddler hair.

The only way to link hairs the way you want to is to family them - but familying two different hairs can cause some bugs, so I suggest just adding bald hairs to the hair you're making.

Hi again

I did erase the cache before but I will do it again, if it can help.
Hmm, if I have to make the meshes I may as well just use mine again, in the correct proportions for the various ages. The maxis bald hair of various ages should be good guides to adjust my mesh correctly, what do you think? If one of the maxis toddler meshes include alpha parts maybe even toddlers can use this mesh.

As for familifying meshes, is it the same as for familifying textures? I will try to find more information about that.

No update for the moment, I am currently at work, I'll come back when I am home.

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#10 Old 9th May 2018 at 6:30 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 9th May 2018 at 7:15 PM.
Did you delete any of the resources in the files? I saw earlier that some of the lines were missing. I don't recommend deleting any resouces in hair files unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing, and hairs are especially tricky to get right (I prefer using Cat's hair binner for binning and removing ages). Could be you accidentally deleted a resource with some info for the teen mesh. I've tried doing this a few times, and it usually ends up with one of the hairs not working.

Do you have the newest files?

EDit: I tried to make new recolor files from a different hair (the "rocker hair", because it shows for child-elder, and has the PUsimple hair, which has a working alpha), and the teen mesh still doesn't show up for some reason (the child mesh shows). It's possible the mesh is the issue. I can't check in Milkshape, unfortunately.

In Milkshape, can you open the teen mesh, go to the "joints" tab, tick the "Draw vertices with bone colors," select one vertex of the hair (preferably in the "tail"), and take a picture of the hair in the 3D view + the colored panel directly below the "Draw vertices..." line? Just want to check something in your mesh, since I currently don't have access to Milkshape.
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#11 Old 10th May 2018 at 3:36 AM Last edited by billielith : 30th May 2018 at 1:26 AM.
Hi again

I tried to separate the recolors at first since the mesh was done separately for the different ages. The new recolor should fix it though, it seems to have all the closecrop hairs working along with my new mesh (child).

Not sure which one is the rocker hair, but it sounds like a good idea. I'll look for it.

I joined the new files. I didn't have time to edit the other ages' mesh, but you can look at the Child version for now. I'll be back to work more on this in a couple days.

EDIT (May 29th)
I tried again, and still the same result. Hole in the head for all ages except child.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: zip  PooHair_ChildVersion.zip (768.0 KB, 2 downloads) - View custom content

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#12 Old 1st Jun 2018 at 10:52 AM Last edited by billielith : 1st Jun 2018 at 11:09 AM.
I finally got it to work. THANKS SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING SIMMER22!

I started over a few times, doing all the steps, unsure what was wrong. Then I realized a few things.

1) The ricebowl mesh isn't the same for the child than for the teen/adults. They look identical, the shape is identical, but for some reason they were not put together correctly in the game. The adult ricebowl mesh does exist, but it is associated with a different child mesh. The comments in the ricebowl mesh are not the same for all ages either - I didn't expect that. You were right!
2) A hidden mesh (bald mesh for toddlers/elders) will produce a hidden recolor. No thumbnail showing in the catalog for this age. But the toddler/elder will display the bald head correctly.
3) If a texture is missing, the mesh might not show up in Bodyshop. (You were right about resources missing! I did my recolors again and it was fine the second seventh time!)
4) My teens/adults didn't have a hole in their heads. Fixing the ricebowl mesh' comments made it finally visible and parts of the mesh were just flying. For some reason the mesh was super high, not levelled with the rest of the head. I had to go by trial and errors to lower it by increments to get it just at the right height.

So here's the results : (check the picture bin!)

It is so frustrating and discouraging to be stuck with an error. I thought I'll just never be able to make a mesh! But hey I made it, I feel so accomplished, lol. Now Poo can grow up and keep his unique style! lol. I wouldn't have done it without you. Thanks!!
Screenshots

I know I can't do it, but I'm still going to do it. - M. C. Escher
Mad Poster
#13 Old 1st Jun 2018 at 12:53 PM
Happy you got it fixed
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