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Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#101 Old 10th Nov 2007 at 8:33 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Doddibot
Isn't that an oxymoron?


Not at all--that's more or less what's been running through my mind when I read this thread. Replacing a belief system with a belief system that stresses the non-existance of belief systems is still a belief system. And yes, I know that sounded a little redundant, but so does believing in not believing.

There's always money in the banana stand.
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Scholar
#102 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 5:38 AM
Quote: Originally posted by jhd1189
Replacing a belief system with a belief system that stresses the non-existance of belief systems is still a belief system.

Atheism is not a belief system. Aside from thinking that the statement 'there is at least one God' is false, or at least very likely to be false, there is no other belief. (Some might even say that this isn't even a belief either).

Religions, on the other hand, carry with them many moral and spiritual beliefs along with the belief in a God, such as believing it is good to pray, believing it is wrong to use the name of God in vain and believing that killing the infidels will reward you in heaven. Atheists don't have any such baggage. So it's not a 'system' by any idea.
Field Researcher
#103 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 8:37 AM
you can not get rid of religion because it is not a thing.
if religion was just something people did like for instance if i believe balancing a big rubber ball on my nose was right, well then all they would have to do is make sure no one is balancing rubber balls, or stop making rubber balls.
but its not something you do.
God is real and he loves me. i know this in my heart and my mind. this is truth. this is what i believe. now you cant stop my knowing that unless you destroy my mind and heart.
you could tie me up gag me blind fold me and plug my ears if you wanted but that is not going to take away my religion because i still have my heart and my mind that still knows what i believe.
the only way you can take away religion is to kill every person who believes in anything.

and atheist wouldent let that happen. (and as for my belief) God wouldent let that happen.
Lab Assistant
#104 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 9:24 AM
Only the Abrahamic Religions bring hate. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the religions we needs to get rid of.

But other religions can stay, especially Buddhism.
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#105 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 9:49 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Doddibot
Atheism is not a belief system. Aside from thinking that the statement 'there is at least one God' is false, or at least very likely to be false, there is no other belief. (Some might even say that this isn't even a belief either).


I'm sorry; I guess I respectfully disagree. It just seems to me that vehemently insisting that there is no God would count as a belief. You live whatever you believe, and that's your belief system.

Quote: Originally posted by WrymKing
Only the Abrahamic Religions bring hate. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the religions we needs to get rid of.


Really. So are you trying to say that people from all other religions are pure and perfect then, and have never done anything to spread hatred or ill will? That's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Human beings are inherently flawed--humans spread hate. Religions are a means to an end for some people, but religions themselves are not responsible for hatred. To eliminate hatred, you would have to eliminate humanity--which hardly seems like the right thing to do.

There's always money in the banana stand.
Lab Assistant
#106 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 10:40 AM
Quote: Originally posted by jhd1189
ally. So are you trying to say that people from all other religions are pure and perfect then, and have never done anything to spread hatred or ill will? That's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Human beings are inherently flawed--humans spread hate. Religions are a means to an end for some people, but religions themselves are not responsible for hatred. To eliminate hatred, you would have to eliminate humanity--which hardly seems like the right thing to do.


Well the Abrahamic religions are the ones that clearly divides people. Whether it's a division on race, gender, other religions, or sexuality, it's those three that are most guilty. Which is why those three religion of the most nut jobs in them.

While other religions that aren't those three are less divisive, less about "We're right, you're wrong" attitudes and more encompassing.
Scholar
#107 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 11:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by jhd1189
I'm sorry; I guess I respectfully disagree. It just seems to me that vehemently insisting that there is no God would count as a belief. You live whatever you believe, and that's your belief system.

If you must insist that believing something entails a belief system, then perhaps I agree. However, there is really nothing involved in living a life as an atheist, as atheism isn't proscriptive like religions are.

Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
Well the Abrahamic religions are the ones that clearly divides people. Whether it's a division on race, gender, other religions, or sexuality, it's those three that are most guilty. Which is why those three religion of the most nut jobs in them.

Those three are also some of the most influential religions. Perhaps that is why you seem to think they are the most guilty.

Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
While other religions that aren't those three are less divisive, less about "We're right, you're wrong" attitudes and more encompassing.

No, I think a fundamentalist of any religious belief will have that attitude. However, they may not necessarily be inclined to be intolerant about it. Certainly you will not be slain by a fundamentalist Jain.
Lab Assistant
#108 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 11:04 AM
I'm actually talking about the content of the religion and not the number of people practicing them.
Field Researcher
#109 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 6:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
Only the Abrahamic Religions bring hate. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the religions we needs to get rid of.

But other religions can stay, especially Buddhism.


And you're the posterboy(girl) of being hate free? I could say alot of things right now, but I'll be the bigger man and not spread hate.

After all, aren't all generalizations false? Show me a fanatic in any faith, and I'll show you fifty good people of that same faith. The loud minority does not represent the otherwise quiet minority.
Forum Resident
#110 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 6:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Doddibot
Atheism is not a belief system.
I think it's classified as non-religious belief system (I looked it up in Wikipedia, being an atheist myself).
So apparently a belief system, but not a religion.
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#111 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 7:10 PM
Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
Well the Abrahamic religions are the ones that clearly divides people. Whether it's a division on race, gender, other religions, or sexuality, it's those three that are most guilty. Which is why those three religion of the most nut jobs in them.

While other religions that aren't those three are less divisive, less about "We're right, you're wrong" attitudes and more encompassing.


What about the Hindu caste system? What about the entire class of Untouchables that it has created? I would certainly say that Hinduism is far more divisive than the Abrahamic faiths in that sense.

There's always money in the banana stand.
Lab Assistant
#112 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 7:31 PM
Quote: Originally posted by hszmv
And you're the posterboy(girl) of being hate free? I could say alot of things right now, but I'll be the bigger man and not spread hate.

After all, aren't all generalizations false? Show me a fanatic in any faith, and I'll show you fifty good people of that same faith. The loud minority does not represent the otherwise quiet minority.


Read the Bible and the Koran, then read Buddhist and Wiccan text. Go ahead.

Quote: Originally posted by jhd1189
What about the Hindu caste system? What about the entire class of Untouchables that it has created? I would certainly say that Hinduism is far more divisive than the Abrahamic faiths in that sense.


Yes true, but Abrahamic faiths have caused more divisiveness in terms of race, gender, sexuality and alienating other religions.
Test Subject
#113 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 8:25 PM
Quote:
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the religions we needs to get rid of.


This statement is one of the most ignorant and wrongy generalized statements I have ever seen or heard. And like hszmv said, just because there have been a few wrong, evil fanatics does not mean that the entire religious population is like that and should therefore be eradicated. I can't believe you're still arguing your point after all everyone's said that has shot down everything you said. Please educate yourself more on these religions and the people that follow them before making such ridiculous statements.



I am very glad that the majority of the world population (including atheists) is more educated and I am positive when I state that what you say will never become a reality.
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#114 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 8:44 PM
Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
Read the Bible and the Koran, then read Buddhist and Wiccan text. Go ahead.



Yes true, but Abrahamic faiths have caused more divisiveness in terms of race, gender, sexuality and alienating other religions.



I have read the Bible, thank you, and the story of the Good Samaritan comes immediately to mind. Do you know what that story is about? Samaritans were treated very badly by the Jews, and yet, when a Jewish man falls prey to highway robbers, a passing Samaritan is willing to help him when people of his own religion are not. Moral of the story? Treat someone well because they're a human being, not because they have the same beliefs as you. I fail to see how that encourages divisiveness.

There's always money in the banana stand.
Test Subject
#115 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 8:49 PM
jhd I agree. Just even though bible doesn't encompass all religions, it teaches to treat everyone with the same respect and kindness and not to prejudice, stereotype, or alienate someone.
Field Researcher
#116 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 8:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by WyrmKing
Read the Bible and the Koran, then read Buddhist and Wiccan text. Go ahead.


After 12 years of education in various aspects of faiths around the world, I think I know what I'm talking about. All of those texts are ultimatly about loving your neighbor. It's the one thing that rings true in all of them. We can't all agree on the same things, because the minutia (what meats we can/cannot eat, what days of the week we worship, what days are special holidays, ect.) is really not that important. If we honor statements about caring for others and being good people, I honostly don't care what book you got it out of. At that point, we're on the same team for humanity. I think all religions and belief systems (that way I can include atheism in there as well) have their amazing virtues, and ugly misconceptions. But every time I look, the virtues seem to be stuff we can all agree on. At my core, I'm a Hindu convert. Doesn't mean I renounced other faiths. Hell, I regularly worship at a Catholic mass. So I know what both sides of the fence teach, and the shocker is, that they teach that their is no fence.
Lab Assistant
#117 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 9:00 PM
Default Logic!
So, to stop the evil that is relgion and bring peace these people are planning to say that the vast majority of the world have to stop doing something they believe in so much, most even believe is necessary?

Yup, that's a brilliant idea! That's a sure-fire way for world peace!
Lab Assistant
#118 Old 11th Nov 2007 at 9:43 PM
Funny, you've read it but gloss over the part where heathens and everyone else that doesn't follow the Bible would burn in hell? Umm okay then. :roll eyes:
Field Researcher
#119 Old 12th Nov 2007 at 2:46 AM
If I remember the Bible correctly, Jesus died for all people, not just those who believed in him. The born again stuff is crap, but if you're taking the Bible literally, well, Umm okay then. :rolls eyes:
Test Subject
#120 Old 12th Nov 2007 at 6:18 AM
Quote:
The born again stuff is crap, but if you're taking the Bible literally, well, Umm okay then. :rolls eyes:


Could you rephrase that in coherent English please? I don't mean to be rude, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#121 Old 12th Nov 2007 at 6:26 AM
Guys, simmer down. This is supposed to be a reasonable debate, not a petty argument.

There's always money in the banana stand.
Test Subject
#122 Old 12th Nov 2007 at 6:20 PM
Sorry, that did sound rude to hszmv and I'll relax with the debating.
Field Researcher
#123 Old 13th Nov 2007 at 5:53 AM
I meant the "my interpretation of God, and My way of worshiping him, and My style of worshiping him is the only way you will get into heavan. Any other way is the heathen devil way down the path to Hell, Fire, and Brimstone, and only my God is the God that can save you. His God, even though it has the same origins as my God is a sinful worship of God" attitude that alot of the born-agains have given me. I'm a "to each his own" kind of guy, and I'm not going to judge. It's not my place. Hell, I could be preaching the wrong stuff. That would be cosmic egg on my face when I die, but, hey, there are no spoilers in life.

Hope that clears it up. I'm not saying all born agains are bad, either. I'm just naming that particular attitude as horrid. I think that Jesus died so that all sins could be forgiven, including the sins of those who have never heard of him. It's all the same God to me.

Edit: And I think my last post was ruder then your last post. But that's my POV
Field Researcher
#124 Old 13th Nov 2007 at 6:07 AM
I think it's reasonable to say this:

One of the main ways in which religion corrupts comes from those who believe they have a right to control others, for example by forced conversion (join this religion or be killed or mercilessly persecuted), or from those who believe their religion gives them power over others, or somehow makes them better than others and therefore more deserving of whatever it is they want.

But how is taking the choice away any better? It's just a different form of control.

Take religion away, and the inherent flaws in human beings are still there. War, hate, crime will still be there... for those who commit these atrocities in the name of *insert religion here* will simply find another way to rationalize their behavior.
 
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