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Original Poster
#1 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:01 PM Last edited by chadgraphix : 17th Mar 2017 at 12:27 PM.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:09 PM
Do you wear red, white, and blue every other day? If so, I don't see a problem. If you don't wear those colours every other day, and wore them on Cinco de Mayo just to make a statement... are you honestly surprised that some people were offended?

Really, though, if Americans are all Americans, I don't see why it should matter what people wear. Or are red, white, and blue reserved for white folks only?
Scholar
#3 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:15 PM
At first reading, I disagree heavily. I as even about to post something. But then I thought about it for a moment.

I think, it's both right and wrong. I think those students who were offended, were being way too over-reactionary. Now if they were going around spewing anti-immigrant, or anti-Hispanic slurs? That would be one thing. But if it's just because they wore an American flag on their shirt, on a day to celebrate Mexican heritage, that's just... so what.

Now, on the right side? At first reading, I was critical. I was going to say it was more zero tolerance bullshit (I HATE that crap). But, maybe the school was actually right; because it's a school's job to try to prevent fighting, or break it up when it does happen. I dunno, I think I'm a bit indecisive on a conclusion of the school's position.

Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God?
Banned
#4 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:17 PM
I'd just like to say...
Quote:
"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican heritage day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, told NBC. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."


...Leave the country, kthxbai. I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous, at first I thought this didn't happen in the US, but it did which makes it even more ridiculous because this is the USA. I would've kept wearing the shirt and told them to f*ck themselves. Wah wah some mexican-americans got offended by kids wearing the american flag....get the f out of the country then. I understand that Cinco de Mayo is a mexican holiday but really this isn't mexico it's America, if an American wants to wear the American Flag in America, the pissy winers can just get over themselves.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:26 PM
Wow... Safyre. Harsh.

Isn't wearing an American flag t-shirt on Cinco de Mayo sort of like saying, "Assimilate or get the hell out"? I guess I just don't understand that sort of attitude, being Canadian and all. We celebrate Chinese New Year with the Chinese-Canadians. We celebrate Vaisakhi with the Indo-Canadians. We celebrate Robbie Burns Day with the Scottish-Canadians. We celebrate St. Patrick's Day with the Irish-Canadians. We don't feel so threatened that we all don Canadian flags as some sort of subtle message of exclusion. In fact, you might even see those different ethnic groups wearing Canadians flags somewhere on their person, simply because they identify as Canadian and haven't constantly been told, "Get out. You're not welcome here."

The fact that Mexican-Americans find the sight of the American flag so offensive suggests to me that they haven't exactly been made to feel welcome in the U.S.A.
Banned
#6 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:36 PM
Quote: Originally posted by fakepeeps7
Wow... Safyre. Harsh.

Isn't wearing an American flag t-shirt on Cinco de Mayo sort of like saying, "Assimilate or get the hell out"? I guess I just don't understand that sort of attitude, being Canadian and all. We celebrate Chinese New Year with the Chinese-Canadians. We celebrate Vaisakhi with the Indo-Canadians. We celebrate Robbie Burns Day with the Scottish-Canadians. We celebrate St. Patrick's Day with the Irish-Canadians. We don't feel so threatened that we all don Canadian flags as some sort of subtle message of exclusion. In fact, you might even see those different ethnic groups wearing Canadians flags somewhere on their person, simply because they identify as Canadian and haven't constantly been told, "Get out. You're not welcome here."

The fact that Mexican-Americans find the sight of the American flag so offensive suggests to me that they haven't exactly been made to feel welcome in the U.S.A.


Yeah it is harsh, but so is the attitude coming from those "offended". You're in America, if you are getting offended over the american flag being on someones shirt on a holiday that really doesn't mean much in america, except yet another excuse to get drunk, then perhaps you really shouldn't be in america to begin with. I personally would be very offended if I was told I couldn't wear an american flag shirt in america, it's not anti-immigrant or anti anything really, it's more pro-america than anything. The mexican-american students overreacted as did the school.

They may not have been made to feel welcome in the USA, but let's face it, if they are getting offended by some americans wearing the american flag in an american school in america, they should either just get over it or leave. I could understand if the kids that were wearing the shirt were talking smack to the mexican-american students, but it seems like nothing of the sort happened.
Forum Resident
#7 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:37 PM
When I first read the title of this post, I thought it would be asking whether or not American schools should be able to fly the American flag. Of course they should be, it's America after all.

When I realised it was about clothing, it becomes a bit more complicated.
In Australia, most public and almost all private schools have a uniform code. This is for a number of reasons, including uniformity, showing that you belong to a particular institution, safety and so that there is no competition amongst the students about who has the most expensive jeans etc. It is my understanding that a uniform code cannot be inforced in American public schools.

However, students can be asked to be respectful, particularly regarding other cultures important holidays. America is a huge melting pot of cultures. Everyone needs to be respected and allowed to celebrate their cultural holidays without feeling mocked.
I'm sure if those Mexican students wore t-shirts with the Mexican flag printed them on Fourth of July, they'd have the shit beaten out of them, and everyone would say they deserved it for being disrespectful.

I don't know how it is in America, but it is uncool in Australia to wear anything with the Aussie flag on it anytime other than Australia Day. I'm sure it is similar for Fourth of July. Why would those students wear American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo for any other reason than to be disrespectful and to try and cause trouble.
Banned
#8 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:40 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tenielle
Why would those students wear American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo for any other reason than to be disrespectful and to try and cause trouble.


Perhaps, it was the first shirt they grabbed? The only clean shirt? Because they just felt like it? Their motives for doing so is up in the air, so saying they did it to be disrespectful or to try and cause trouble seems to be pure speculation.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:40 PM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
Was this directed at me?

No, I don't wer those colors on normal days, but I wore them to show that we can wear them if we want.


Then you were trying to cause trouble?
Forum Resident
#10 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
I wore them to show that we can wear them if we want.


But why wear those colours on another cultures holiday, particularly if it's not the attire you would normally wear? What statement were you trying to make? That you are better than them? That attitude shows arrogance and ignorance.
Scholar
#11 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tenielle
I don't know how it is in America, but it is uncool in Australia to wear anything with the Aussie flag on it anytime other than Australia Day. I'm sure it is similar for Fourth of July. Why would those students wear American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo for any other reason than to be disrespectful and to try and cause trouble.

Well, in some regions/family backgrounds, this idea of, uhm, well, of nationalism is almost like a pseudo-lifestyle. It could be that, yes. But also, they do have the right to wear those shirts, as I'm sure some would argue, because it's also symbolic; free speech, if you will. (NOTE: I'm not expressing an opinion, I'm just saying that is an argument likely to come up).

Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God?
Forum Resident
#12 Old 6th May 2010 at 10:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
@Tenielle

I wore those clothes TODAY, not on Cinco de Mayo.


You didn't make that clear. Your first post made it sound as though you wore those colours on Cinco de Mayo.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 6th May 2010 at 11:12 PM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
But I did wear them as a cause because this is America and it is a free country.


Unless you're Mexican.

What with all of the noise about SB 1070 right now, I can forgive them for being a little touchy.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 6th May 2010 at 11:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
They were YELLING insults at me, and anyone wearing something American-flag related clothing and a lot of people were.


So? White Americans haven't yelled insults at Mexican-Americans in the past?

Both sides are acting rather inappropriately here. It seems that racism is alive and well in the good ol' U.S. of A.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 6th May 2010 at 11:38 PM
You can be proud of your country without trying to antagonize other ethnic groups.
Banned
#16 Old 6th May 2010 at 11:54 PM
Here is another link about this

http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=12438458

Quote:
At least 2 of the boys are part Mexican.


Sounds to me like the offended hispanic students were 1) overreacting and 2) trying to start trouble where there wasn't any to begin with.
Theorist
#17 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:08 AM
I can understand school administrators taking whatever actions they decide is appropriate to keep the peace in their schools. What you wear to school has never really been a free speech matter, since even the most casual of schools have dress codes. So whatever else is going on for whatever larger issues, I think the administration's task of keeping students focused on learning, even if that means sending people home and telling them to change clothes, is probably appropriate.

High school is not the proper forum for a political conversation about immigration between high school students, unless it's a conversation in class set up by a teacher.
transmogrified
retired moderator
#18 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:11 AM
I think someone should acquaint both the students wearing the flag and the students offended by their actions with the code of respect for the United States flag. The students wearing the flag are not respecting it; the students offended by its display...seriously, the US has a lot of injustices, but last time I checked, we weren't a prison colony. Step up to change a broken system or step out. The flag isn't the flag of white America.
Banned
#19 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:19 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mangaroo
I think someone should acquaint both the students wearing the flag and the students offended by their actions with the code of respect for the United States flag. The students wearing the flag are not respecting it; the students offended by its display...seriously, the US has a lot of injustices, but last time I checked, we weren't a prison colony. Step up to change a broken system or step out. The flag isn't the flag of white America.


Quite interesting that code of respect is, how much of it America doesn't adhere to.

Quote:
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.


Better not fly the flag as it can be damaged due to high wind speeds.

Quote:
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.


Well military funerals don't carry it aloft and free, they're disrespecting the flag!

Quote:
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.


Yeah, I don't see anyone getting thrown in jail for that either, since I tend to see lots of advertising using the american flag.

Quote:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.


Better not dress up as Captain America or Wonder Woman for halloween.

I really don't think America herself adheres to all of the points in the code of respect.
transmogrified
retired moderator
#20 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:38 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
Well military funerals don't carry it aloft and free, they're disrespecting the flag!.


Not applicable. The guidelines for flags used in funerals are in the preceding section (n).

Neither Wonder Woman nor Captain America wears a flag. They wear outfits suggesting the elements of a flag (white stars on blue field; red and white stripes), the equivalent of the OP's wearing red, white and blue. (There's no way an actual flag could have gotten past the comics code!)
Banned
#21 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mangaroo
Not applicable. The guidelines for flags used in funerals are here (section n).

Neither Wonder Woman nor Captain America wear a flag. They wear outfits suggesting the elements of a flag (white stars on blue field; red and white stripes), the equivalent of the OP's wearing red, white and blue. (There's no way an actual flag could have gotten past the comics code!)


Ok so I stand corrected on military funerals, but both CA and WW both have parts of the flag as their uniform, and the code states that "No part of the flag".
transmogrified
retired moderator
#22 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:51 AM
Really, they do not. Not that I would be offended if they did. My point is simply that the if the purpose of the flag-wearing students was to declare their patriotism, a pin would have been more respectful to the symbol. Someone should tell the offended Mexican-American students (and Fox News) that those students were disrespecting the flag as much as they were disrespecting the Cinco de Mayo celebration.
Field Researcher
#23 Old 7th May 2010 at 12:51 AM
I personally never quite understood why Americans seem to love wearing their flag so much. Here in Quebec you would be hard pressed to find anyone wearing a shirt bearing the canadian flag (though probably not for the same reasons as in the rest of Canada), and if you do they are probably tourists, or it's Canada day. Just as we don't wear the Quebec's flag much at all except for St-Jean-Baptiste (national Quebec day).

That being said, I both think some people over reacted and that some others should have been more considerate. Although it could all have been a simple mistake with no ill intention meant. And if some of those wearing shirts with the american flag were indeed hispanic, perhaps they wore it to show how glad they were that they are in the USA now?

And just because I could not resist grabbing this picture for this thread, a little lol
Lab Assistant
#24 Old 7th May 2010 at 3:52 AM
Oh crap - I don't remember for sure, but I think I may have worn a red-orange, dark blue, and gray striped shirt yesterday. And I live in Arizona. *smacks self* (But, on the other hand, I wear that shirt about once a week anyway. Wasn't intentional, and it doesn't resemble the colors of the American flag at all.)

On-topic: I think the school's ruling of sending students home was justified - it's understandable that they would just want to prevent fights and try to not insult anyone. I also understand that the recent passing of SB 1070 makes this a pretty volatile issue, which obviously compounds the problem.

(I disagree strongly with SB 1070 - besides the obvious problems regarding how it's likely to cause discrimination, it's also completely unconstitutional, because border patrol is in the federal government's jurisdiction and not the state government's - but that's another topic.)
Mad Poster
#25 Old 7th May 2010 at 7:29 AM
Quote: Originally posted by chadgraphix
Seriously, what would be the point of disagreeing with this post?
Whoever did it, please PM me with the particular reason, thanks.


I thought the whole point of the buttons was so that we don't have to send messages and give detailed reasons...

I think we need an "unhelpful" button as well. That may be more appropriate for some things than "disagree".
 
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