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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 3:34 AM
Default Twilight: Horrible or Perfection?
Here I go...

Twilight. There are three major problems with the Twilight series. I'll put them in nice little bulleted paragraphs for you.

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship
Edward's kind of an obsessive psychopath. He watches her sleep for christ's sakes! He uses force, intimidation and coercion to control Bella's actions. He manipulates her into marrying him, which is something she REALLY doesn't want to do. He hides important information from her, and he breaks her heart to "protect her" when truly, better protection would've been to stay with her.

2. The lack of depth in the characters
Edward. Edward, Edward, Edward. He is the most shallow character I've ever read about. Ever! He is two dimensional - no - one dimensional. He has one side. He is a vampire. He is sexy. He is charming and witty and intelligent and pefect. Okay, we get it. Where are his flaws? He has none! One might say "Oh, he's a vampire! You know, a killer and stuff!" That doesn't count as a flaw. That's as silly as saying in a book about aliens that being an alien is a flaw! Where is the logic in this book? There is none!
And Bella! She is flat. Flat, flat, flat. She's a human. She is plain. She is in love with a vampire. She's about as interesting as an earthworm. And her emo phase in New Moon? I wanted to claw my eyes out so I wouldn't have to read anymore about her "holding herself together". She's nothing but a parasite. She needs another person to survive. First Edward, then Jacob, then Edward again. Ugh. She makes me sick.
Jacob is seriously the deepest character in the books! I'm still team Jacob. Oh, and I think it's super creepy that he imprinted on Renesme.

3. The pace is way too fast
Waayy too many things happen in a very short amount of time. It's almost like being on a rollercoaster.
I can't even begin to explain.

It sucks that I wasted five months of my life on that crap.

On the other hand, the movie was decent. Considering the utter crap it's based on.

Feel free to try to rebuke this, or support it.
If you can change my mind I will bake you cookies. :]
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 3:45 AM
Is this really a debate? I'll share my two cents, anyway. I read Twilight to see what all the hullaballoo was about and why it was knocking some fantastic novels down on the bestseller list- I typically don't waste my time on mainstream books, but after my curiosity was sated, I wasn't impressed.

It's not that the books are bad, per se, but the writing and the literary devices are atrocious. Like you said, the characters lack dimension and are idealized to the point of annoyance. This could just be a matter of taste, but I read three books a week looking for lush description, poignant emotional imagery, and characters that overcome their innate flaws, none of which I found in the Twilight series. The plot is somewhat decent, but I think the series could have been so much more if put in the hands of a far more skilled writer, because the author uses a redundant host of about thirty adjectives and writes for a fifth-grade audience. As a passionate conoisseur of literature, I just think that they're incredibly sub-par and badly written; not badly plotted, but poorly executed. If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.

Do I dare disturb the universe?
.
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Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 3:50 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Rabid
If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.


Here, here!
#4 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 3:59 AM
I'm not impressed with any of Anne Rice's novels either. It seems a little too much talking and not enough action for my tastes.
Twilight was amusing but honestly, the Harry Potter series was better written. Apparently children are smarter than teen girls?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#5 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:01 AM
J.K. Rowling's just sooo much smarter than Stephanie Myers.
#6 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:04 AM
Yeah Twilight really lacked any depth to the characters. It was disappointing.

Even J.K.'s side characters like Hagrid have more depth.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:06 AM
Harry Potter is superior to Twilight, indeed, although my opinion of that series is that it's far, far too heavy. I like my books emotionally and descriptively heavy- not filled with mindless drivel for dialogue. I think that a solid four-hundred pages of unnecessary dialogue and anecdotes could be trimmed from each Harry Potter novel to create a far more compact, interesting story. No book can ever be too long, but it can have grossly excessive content. This is a very unusual thing for me say, seeing as, in literature, I thrive on reading and writing long-winded, wordy exposition of both emotional and sensual imagery- perhaps this is why I enjoy Anne Rice's books above the other novels mentioned, although I tend to avoid series. In my opinion, a good story ends with one book, but I digress. This is why I read largely unknown contemporary works of fiction; I find that authors untainted by the reader's expectations are the most enthralling storytellers of all.

Do I dare disturb the universe?
.
| tumblr | My TS3 Photos |
Field Researcher
#8 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:15 AM
Not to toot my own horn, but I can make a Sim with a unique personality in three minutes. Twilight series had three books and there was basically no character developement, or even any character at all.
I do agree with you Rabid that Anne Rice novels are what a person should read if someone wants to read a vampire book. The vampires in Twilight aren't even real Vampires. More like zombies with a blood fetish. That sparkle. Twilight doesn't even come close to the literary genius of Interview With Vampire and it's series.

And Bella. Oh Bella. She's homely, yet a bunch of guys...love...her? Not to mention she set the feminist movement back by at leeast half a century. Apparently when a woman's boyfriend or husband leaves for X amount of months, the girl should weep, cry, and put herself in danger so that her significant other will save her. Yea, I see that logic.

Yes it is a Romance book, and yes it is for the teen audience. But honestly, it is written bad. How many synonyms are there for "sparkle"? Stephanie Myer showed me there are many.
#9 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:33 AM
Not all books are made to be studied in classes. I've read many books that are much worse than Twilight that no one has their panties in a knot about, the only difference is they aren't as well known and well liked as Twilight. Twilight isn't perfect, it isn't meant to have tons of hidden meanings, it is simply a story, an easy read, for fun. I don't know why people compare Twilight to Harry Potter, they are nothing alike except in their length. I loved Harry Potter, and I loved 2 of the 4 Twilight books, and I loved Tithe, and I loved Song of Solomon, and I loved many other completely unrelated books, but I don't go comparing each and every one of them to each other. It makes no sense.
And hey, my boyfriend hasn't read a novel in years (doubt he's read any as long as Twilight). He hates reading, and he reads slow. I somehow magically convinced him to read Twilight though, and he really liked the same 2 that I liked. My philosophy on books is if it gets someone to read, it really can't be all that bad :P
Test Subject
Original Poster
#10 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:46 AM
Twilight was written for the mindless masses. I would rather read a book that makes me think, or at least doesn't tick me off with it's stupidity.

Twilight and Harry Potter are both classified as fantasy series. That's why they are compared. The die-hard Harry Potter fans are downright offended that Twilight has even been published.
#11 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 4:54 AM
That's funny, I know tons of HP fans who realize that you can like one book series and still like another (or tolerate its existence) and not have to compare the two :P
Test Subject
Original Poster
#12 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 5:16 AM
This is getting rather off topic. So let's focus on Twilight now.
Top Secret Researcher
#13 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 5:18 AM
Twilight, in my opinion, is a good book.
Not great, and not stab-to-death horrible.

Quote: Originally posted by OMGnoWAY
1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship
Edward's kind of an obsessive psychopath. He watches her sleep for christ's sakes! He uses force, intimidation and coercion to control Bella's actions. He manipulates her into marrying him, which is something she REALLY doesn't want to do. He hides important information from her, and he breaks her heart to "protect her" when truly, better protection would've been to stay with her.

I think you, OMG, haven't thought too much on your 'answer'/thought.
If your boyfirend/girlfriend can never sleep, would you sugest that they go watch paint dry or count sand at the bottom of the ocean? Humans do that already so it can't be "OMG Edward iz cre3piez!"

I haven't read the books so I wouldn't know how well Meyer describes her characters.

I liked the movie, well over than I tolerated Watchmen and Harry Potter.
Harry Potter made me want to own a gun and watch my brains fall out. The movies just drag on for-ever.
Watchmen, the moive had -no- plot. This guy kills another man, angry, angry, sex, sex, more sex, 'OMG he did itz', done.

Twilight is ment to appeal to the teenage readers, which are the 'Emo-rocker' people.

So long, my luckless romance
My back is turned on you
I should've known you'd bring me heartache
Almost lovers always do

Mad Poster
#14 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 5:25 AM
PuX- 80's:Your reply made my day! :D
Scholar
#15 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 5:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by OMGnoWAY0752
Where are his flaws? He has none! One might say "Oh, he's a vampire! You know, a killer and stuff!" That doesn't count as a flaw. That's as silly as saying in a book about aliens that being an alien is a flaw!

That would be a flaw, if the vampires were properly portrayed. A vegetarian pacifist vampire? Come on, that's an oxymoron if I ever heard of one!

Can I recommend a decent vampire novel? Fledgling by Octavia Butler. Now that's a decent portrayal of young people and vampires (although Fledgling features far more sex than the amount Twilight deliberately avoids).
Test Subject
#16 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 5:58 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Rabid
Is this really a debate? I'll share my two cents, anyway. I read Twilight to see what all the hullaballoo was about and why it was knocking some fantastic novels down on the bestseller list- I typically don't waste my time on mainstream books, but after my curiosity was sated, I wasn't impressed.

It's not that the books are bad, per se, but the writing and the literary devices are atrocious. Like you said, the characters lack dimension and are idealized to the point of annoyance. This could just be a matter of taste, but I read three books a week looking for lush description, poignant emotional imagery, and characters that overcome their innate flaws, none of which I found in the Twilight series. The plot is somewhat decent, but I think the series could have been so much more if put in the hands of a far more skilled writer, because the author uses a redundant host of about thirty adjectives and writes for a fifth-grade audience. As a passionate conoisseur of literature, I just think that they're incredibly sub-par and badly written; not badly plotted, but poorly executed. If you're looking for quality vampire literature, go read Anne Rice; don't settle for Twilight.


You're talking as though you can write a novel that's better than Twilight.
Field Researcher
#17 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Carlisle
You're talking as though you can write a novel that's better than Twilight.


I'm pretty sure ANYONE can write a better novel than Twilight.

Twilight, as I've gathered, if horrendously god-awful - a glorified fanfiction. And the content seems to be completely inappropriate for it's target audience Especially the fourth book. Come on, horribly painful sex that continues after Bella has fallen unconcious... a grown man falling in love with a baby? Mother's shouldn't allow their girls to read this tripe.

-Holy Hell!-
The cement is just - it's there for the weight dear!

Nice 'n' easy does it everytime...
Test Subject
Original Poster
#18 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:17 AM
PuX, I'm rather offended that you view me as one of those teenagers who speaks like "OMG Edward iz cre3piez!" Because I'm not. I'll have you know, my nickname is pure sarcasm; an inside joke between my bff and I. But I digress.

As you said, you haven't read the book, only seen the movie. What the movie fails to explain is that Edward snuck into Bella's house every night for months on end to watch her sleep.

Now, I've fallen asleep at my bfs house, and when I woke up, he told me I look cute when I sleep, but he doesn't exactly sneak into my house every night like that creeper Edward.

I started this thread to talk about Twilight. Not Harry Potter, not Anne Rice, Twilight. I know I haven't exactly been helpful on the whole staying on topic thing, but c'mon, give an ADD kid a break.

I kind of expected this to get heated, but what I really want is to hear true lovers of the Twilight series defenses of the book and their opinions, and the opinions of people who dislike the Twilight series. And I HAVE thought about this. In depth. Discussed it with others. In depth.

I am talking about the book Twilight. Not the movie. I said the movie was decent. And so you know, I have read all the books in the series. But I digress, again.

So can we keep it to Twilight? The book series?
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#19 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:19 AM
Hmm... I'm not sure if this strikes me as being the right sort of topic for the debate room, so I'm going to go ahead and move it to the media center. And if I end up being completely wrong and this does turn into a debate, we can always move it back.

There's always money in the banana stand.
Field Researcher
#20 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:20 AM
Heh heh, I was thinking this was getting a bit heated too.
Forum Resident
#21 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:22 AM
Not the best debate I've seen, but concidering my last one was a bit of a flop, wth.

Quote: Originally posted by OMGnoWAY0752
Here I go...

Twilight. There are three major problems with the Twilight series. I'll put them in nice little bulleted paragraphs for you.

1. Edward and Bella's ABUSIVE (yes, abusive) relationship

2. The lack of depth in the characters


3. The pace is way too fast


1. Edward is a Vampire. Vampire's are not known for their "Niceness" or mental stability. Being dead changes people.

2. Its a teen love story. Movie made from a book put into 1.2 hours. Not a lot of time considering. I'm sure there was a lot missing from the book. Example, look at the LOTR, Return of the king. Didn't end as the book did. Time affects, so does staying close to important story lines in the book.

3. Read my #2.

Erasing One Big Astounding Mistake All-around
Test Subject
Original Poster
#22 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:30 AM
Again: People. This discussion is about the book series. NOT the movie.
#23 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 6:48 AM
I read half way through the book and got bored. The dialogue was alright. I mean, it was more entertaining than the actions which seem just be repetitive. The dialogue is wa-ay more entertaining when you're viewing it as a comedy, which was how I saw it, because well... My sister almost drowned me when I was a baby and ever since I've had a strange sense of humor.

With Edward being perfect. I didn't think so. He's insecure and uncomfortable with himself. Plus, he's been a virgin for over a hundred years. I say after the age of 30, the excuse of, "I'm waiting until I'm married" is out the window and on top of that, it's obvious he's not asexual. Even the 40-year-old Virgin got laid and Edward is 60 years past that. In the end, I just think he has a small noodle. Not that is a bad thing, but it can definitely take a guys confidence in a relationship down a peg.

And gah! That boy is smart in the class room, but he doesn't have common sense. How can he NOT notice half of the charming stuff he does?

Bella is just a normal teen growing into herself. She hit the nail when she said that her reputation in Arizona was probably what made her such a loner. She was a gawky teen at the age of 13 and while growing up, she made no effort of changing that. Therefore, her peers view of her didn't change.
Scholar
#24 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 8:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SSChan
Come on, horribly painful sex that continues after Bella has fallen unconcious...

Pretty clear, with the parallels between teenage sexual lust and vampiric bloodlust, that Meyer wrote the book with the intention of promoting abstinence in young teens. It's totally obvious that any sex in the book is going to be bad too, to discourage the audience from pursuing it.
#25 Old 30th Mar 2009 at 9:28 AM
She is, after all, a Mormon. She just may find such religious related subjects seriously.
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