“We start with the president of the United States saying to America, ‘we cannot build enough prisons to solve this problem. And the idea that we can keep incarcerating and keep incarcerating — pretty soon we’re not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They’re all going to be in prison or dead. One of the two.”

Lets have a look at this statement, shall we? Hmmm...the speaker seems to be stating that if he isn't elected President, every young black male in the USA is going to be in prison, or dead. Pretty clear in the wording...Obviously its a racist statement. The speaker's defenders have said that he didn't mean every young black male, and that the comment was taken out of context. I don't know about you, but those sound like hollow excuses to me. The speaker clearly states that every young black male will be incarcerated, (is he assuming because they are all criminals?)or dead. (is he suggesting that those young black males who aren't incarcerated will be gunned down by the black males headed to prison maybe?) Now, this is exactly the kind of comment that would draw out Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, deriding the speaker for their racist comments, and demanding that they step down from their candidacy for President, at least you would think, right? Isn't this exactly the kind of thing that gets them all riled up and gunning for a fight with conservatives over? I don't think that is going to happen this time however...something tells me that they will not only condemn the speaker, but will defend him.

Why? You see, those words were not uttered by a old white conservative, oh no. They were spoken by Democratic candidate John Edwards. Had those exact words been uttered by Fred Thompson, you can bet they would be all over it, demanding that Thompson dropped out. Had it been Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of "hymietown", they would demand that he apologize to the black community. However, since it was a Democrat that said them, they will not condemn the words. If knappy headed ho's are the reason for someone to lose their job, surely saying that every young black male will be in prison or dead if he isn't elected President would be worth backing out of a candidacy for President...I mean, to me, thats a much more offensive statement. What is insulting a basketball team compared to insinuating that all black men are criminals? But, they will not say anything negative about Edwards. They will come up with excuses as to why Edwards comments were not racist...but we both know that if it had been a Republican candidate, they would not be in such a hurry to excuse their words.

Why is it acceptable for Democrats to utter racist remarks, and get free passes, while Republicans are forced out of office for them? Should John Edwards drop out of the race for his comments? If yes, why, if no, why not?

First, davious, how 'bout providing a source and the context for your Edwards' quote?

I see nothing wrong with what he said. There's some truth in that. A lot of black men are incarcerated and there are more of them in prison than any other group of men, at least percentage-wise.

A context for this quote would be appreciated, as there is no end quote on the nested quote, and it's not clear whether he's continuing to quote someone else or making his own remarks at that point. Obviously verbally he wouldn't have end quotes I suppose but without being able to hear it said...

I see everything wrong with that statement. Saying that every black male will end up incarcerated or dead is a very cruel and judgemental thing to say, not to mention very racist.

I also agree with Redwing. Do you have any proof of that's what was said? Such as a link to an article, perhaps?

Hmmm... I don't see the words "Unless I'm elected president," anywhere in that statement. Did you just add those words on your own? Why? Doesn't that distort the meaning a little bit?

A couple of months ago, I was involved as a campaign worker for a candidate in an emergency congressional race. The CA-37 district contains Long Beach (where I live), Compton (as in, "straight outta"), Bellflower, and Carson.

For a number of the African-American candidates (both Democrat AND Republican), a really big issue was the problem of the huge number of young black African-American males that get arrested and become part of "the system" (the prison/justice system) for the rest of their lives. The numbers are really appalling. Most of these are for drug offenses. Once they become part of the system, they are gone to the rest of society.

I did some googling just now for some statistics:


I don't want to get into whether they deserve it or not. If you raise yourself above it and just look at the numbers for a minute and think about the ghastly impact that has to have on the black community, you can see how this might be a really big issue with them, something that doesn't always register with white voters in such a personal way. This is a big issue with them. What happens to the young men after they go in and come out? Do you just forget them as if they are human trash or do you try to make them part of society again? It makes a difference, I suppose, if you think that you could some day be talking about your own kids rather than somebody else's.

It is quite sad that the statistics of that are high with that particular racial group. But I would still have to say that just because it is a high amount doesn't give anyone the right to assume that all black males are going to end up incarcerated or dead nor does it give anyone the right to say that or anything racist about another racial group.

Why do I have the feeling that one sentence is really the core of this debate? It's not really a matter of what was said and whether the statement is right or wrong, but how to turn what was said into a partisan issue... am I right?

I have to agree with the others. Let's see the source of Edward's remarks.

This was during the MTV/Myspace debate. If you are interested, here is a video of it:

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/6142.html

Of course, this lends itself to another question: just how perfect is our criminal justice system?

Not very perfect, I'd say. I remember once, while being interviewed on a news show, a major conservative author (I believe it was Coulter) talked about the disproportionately high number of black men in jail.

And she was right. There is a disproportionately high number of black men in America's jails.

Then, the interviewer asked a very simple question that Coulter had some trouble to answer: what did she believe was the main cause of crime in this case? Poverty or "blackness"?

I think "whether they deserve it or not" is an important issue--and unfortunately, a hopelessly complex one also.

I knew that none of the many liberal posters would condemn him for making comments that a conservative would have been shredded for...

Watch the video, his own words, not anyone elses.

I deliberately didn't include the source, as I first learned about it from Fox News. If I had mentioned Fox News, liberals would automatically discount it as being propaganda from the right, despite the fact that it was broadcast on MTV. Conveniently enough, searches of CNN, MSNBC, and other left leaning news agencies completely avoided any mention of the controversial remarks. Should I have expected better from them? Not really...But I have yet to read a response that challenges my assertion that if a conservative had said the exact same remarks, they would have been criticized heavily for it. I want to thank the liberal posters, who rather than taking Edwards to task, as they certainly would have done to a conservative, proved the hypocrisy that I have long suspected.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298526,00.html

Thats where I first learned, because I knew better than to expect any of the other "news" websites to cover it. But, Paleoanth's link to the video is damning of Edwards more so than anything I read about on Fox news. It's John Edwards himself saying the words. The words are right there, before any spin is attached. Will any liberal have the guts to condemn John Edwards, as they would condemn a Republican candidate? Or will you attempt to put a spin on it, trying to make it seem as if he didn't say the words he said? The video speaks for itself.

With that, it seems that, while perhaps the phrasing was a little over the top, he was intending to be sensitive to what is a real issue.

My grandmother used to teach kids in an inner city school - she was the only white teacher, and all of her students were black. She got along really well with them, and she'd bring home certain kids for special tutoring and just to play in the pool at our apartment complex and stuff. I became friends with several of her students, and with two of them, our friendships persisted into our adulthood.

One of them is incredibly successful - works a great job, has a really cute girlfriend, is working on buying his own house, owns his own nice car, bought his mother a nice car already...

The other, I testified as a character witness at his assault trial a few years back - stole a woman's purse for drug money and hit her in the process. He'll likely serve at least 20 years.

What, exactly, causes two people from similar circumstances to go so wildly different is... a very complex issue. But I truly believe, having sat and looked at the faces of the jury and the judge in my friend's trial, that had he not been a young black man but a young white man in otherwise identical circumstances, he would not have gotten the sentence he did.

Exactly what the solution is to a continuing problem, I don't know. There's a lot of charged cultural and societal issues involved. Certainly, something must be done - to improve the conditions for inner city youths, to give them better options and positive role models to show them they can do whatever they put their minds to... a change in the justice system so that minor drug offenses are not as big a focus of law enforcement (which would help in prison overcrowding in general - and perhaps allow for some rebudgeting so that more serious offenders can be rehabilitated instead of merely warehoused)... There are no simple answers, and it's easy to say something that can be misinterpreted.

Even if his words weren't precisely accurate, I think his message was coming from the right place. It didn't seem to be intended to be racist or mean anything other than... there's a problem that should be addressed.

But is the statement that Edwards made wrong? Why do you think so?

I don't really see those remarks as being racist. I think it's an obvious hyperbole that is loosely based on statistics. He was trying to bring attention to an obvious problem. American prisons DO have many young black males in them - whether they're in there because they're black has nothing to do with this statement, so I really don't see how it's racist.

If he had said that every young white woman would either be dead or in jail would I be offended? Yes, probably. But I would know that it's not really true - it's just an exaggerated way of saying that there is a problem.

If Edwards honestly believes that his statement is the truth, he's obviously an idiot.

Aside from the glaring fact that the black community isn't exclusively populated by young male criminals or young male victims of murder and that not all black people live in the ghetto?

But we KNOW that. Which is why I don't see a problem with this statement. I don't think Edwards honestly believes that all young black males are criminals or murder victims - I think it was an exaggeration that should be taken with a grain of salt. Or a pillar of it.

I won't give Edwards a pass on this, just as I wouldn't if it had been a Republican candidate. I'll save my seasoning for the kitchen where it belongs. The man is running for President. What he says and how he says it is important. What I saw was Edwards looking at a young black woman who asked him a question about inner-city violence and he immediately equated "inner city" with the "black community" and then stated that all young black men are violent criminals or victims of violence whose behavior can only be corrected by the federal government and by Edwards as the great white hope sitting in the office of the Presidency. Sure, his statement contained a bit of hyperbole but it also contained enough bigotry to make it unacceptable because according to Edwards' statement, black people can only wind up dead or in jail unless we nanny them away from all that.

So what do people here think about the following statement from President Bush?

"There's a lot of people in the world who don't believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe that people whose skins aren't necessarily -- are a different color than white can self-govern."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20040430-2.html

It was a stupid comment, one of many that the President has made. However, the thread isn't about Bush, its about Edwards, and whether or not he should be taken to task for his comments. Books have been written lambasting President Bush's verbal gaffes, it's old news. But, just because Bush said something racially insensitive does not mean someone else should not get taken to task for saying something racially insensitive themselves. President Bush isn't responsible for John Edwards saying every young black male in American will be either in prison or dead, John Edwards is responsible. Bush is responsible for his own words, and, if needed, be challenged on things he said. That doesn't excuse his political opponents however. If you are going to apply a standard to one, you have to apply it to the other, otherwise you are nothing but a hypocrite. Stupidity crosses party lines.

I could not agree more.

The comment is ridiculous and it is exactly what would have had Mr. Sharpton and Co. out with picket signs and demanding that the speaker go onto BET to apologize.

What irritates me most about the racial divide in regards to Republicans and Democrats is the gross hypocrisy. People were up in arms over Michael Richards' stand-up problem last year and Imus, but those same people are defending Mr. Edwards for making the same kind of comment and it is maddening! Just because someone is a democrat does not mean he/she "cares about black people," and likewise, just because someone is a republican, it does not mean that he/she is a racist. What about all the black republicans of the world? Can we say Dr. Rice? Who appointed her to her position? Who has appointed more black Americans to a presidential cabinet than any other in history? That is right. A republican president. What is interesting is that true "racism" seems to come out in regards to black Republicans. If people are dealing with a black Republican, then they bash and criticize even worse than would a white Republican, but they are shielded behind the fact that they do not like conservatives. It is nonsense.


davious, this was an excellent way of approaching an old topic that never really gets answered. If there are standards, then they must apply to everyone or no one at all. Letting these kinds of things slide is exactly what fuels the fire. The statement is racist and Mr. Edwards should step down from the race (no, pun intended). I am interested to see how fast someone like Kanye West gets up to say Mr. Edwards "doesn't like black people" when he has said something far worse than anything Mr. Bush has ever said. Here is a thought: Why are there not just as many people up in arms about what Mr. West had to say about Bush and Hurricane Katrina as they were about Imus? Both comments sounded pretty racist to me, but no one has been pulling out all stops to make sure that Kanye does not make another album...



The reason is simple racism building upon itself in a politically correct world. "Everyone" knows that "all" black people should be democrats because that is the racism we are taught from primary school. Black people are poor, know at least one person in prison, only listen to rap music, speak "ebonics," are on drugs and, if they vote, vote Democrat. Since we allow the same prejudices to persist, we get it drilled into our heads about the way things are supposed to be. Blacks are "supposed" to be democrats and so whites who are as well are considered pro-diversity and non-racist and thus we roll into this barrel with Mr. Edwards. Since he is a democrat, he is automatically deemed "good" and racially-tolerant (God, I hate that word), when clearly we see otherwise. It does not matter how someone spins this; it should not have been said and tells me a lot about Mr. Edwards.

I speak from the heart here because I have had people look at me countless times like I was some kind of freak when I say I am a republican or when I say the Barack Obama would not make a good president, especially at this point in his career. The same racism that concludes that black people do poorly in school and are on welfare is the same racism that assumes that just because one is black, one is also a democrat. Mr. Edwards quote is almost like proof that being liberal does not absolve someone from racial prejudices.

Absolutely... that's why I threw out the comment by Bush. If you think that politicians should be taken to task for making those kinds of comments, and that it should apply across the board, then what Bush said really isn't "old news", as I will demonstrate.

Just for laughs, I Googled the respective comments made by both men. Both returned almost the exact same amount of hits for each... approx. 50, and all pretty much limited to the blogosphere. Neither comment made a headline in any of the major papers. I don't recall Bush being taken to task, making an apology, or being asked to resign over it. The only difference is that Bush made his comment about 3 years ago. I would personally say that qualifies as a free pass.

So what do you think should be done?

ALL of these people give me a headache.

Democrats/Republicans I have yet to understand the difference. I can’t get pass that the republicans like spending other people’s money and if they can’t spend it fast enough they are willing to give it away to anyone but those who payed into the kitty. While they believe in spending they don’t believe in paying taxes. The democrats are not sure what they believe and so to ease their minds as they spend the people’s money they penalize them by making sure they continue to feed the kitty as they dole out the crumbs to special projects as they sing…one for you five for me, one for you ten for me.

Where am I going with this? Heck if I know! Maybe they are like a sport team and it is all a game and winner takes all or maybe they are all just a bad dream…but when we bring racist behavior into it why are we acting like it is a republican or democrat thing? It’s an American thing and has always been an American thing, so why are we trying to confuse the issue? :eviltongu Grass root at best:Slap: A bad dream for sure. :handbag: