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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 7:41 AM
Default Skill Limiting
I recently downloaded the addon for the Sim Blender that lets you put skill limits on specific Sims. I've never really had a chance to use it until just today - when I decided to add some limits to a recently resurrected zombie (he can't earn any points in body, and not more than 5 for cleaning, charisma, and logic). That made me wonder if anyone else limits how much their Sims can skill up and how that's determined.

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

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Scholar
#2 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 8:40 AM
I just learned about this with this post, actually! I think I'd generally put skillling limits based on ages. In my head, at least, doesn't make much sense for most child sims to max out, say, the Logic skill when most real life kids I've met really aren't all that smart-- at least, THAT smart. Kinda makes me wanna develop a system for it...
Mad Poster
#3 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 8:52 AM
Kids ARE that smart. They get stupid with age

Edit - I actually want to contribute:

I don't use a mod, but to me, it has always been relatively simple - don't give them so many skill objects. Toddlers in my game do not get the activity table, only children do - and I will make them play with the toy box or the dollhouse or, if more then one, cops and robbers, tag, etc, instead.
Teens only skill in their fields - the band members gain a lot of creativity points, the sport members a lot of body points, but that's about that.
Adults learn the skills they need to get promotions and may learn other stuff on community lots.
Most skills are picked up at Uni, but Uni has a lot of other things to do as well, so I concentrate on the skills that they need to pass.
Scholar
#4 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 8:57 AM
Maybe my 14 year old brain is just turning into a jaded old woman early?
Mad Poster
#5 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 9:48 AM
Oh, I think you are still young enough to be smart
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#6 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 10:18 AM
I base limits on sim motivation/smarts, that I do so that I will have sims with a variety of skill levels. Smarter sims I send to uni to become doctors, lawers etc, low sims will fill the NPC roles of things like maid or exterminator.

I just wish there was a set all button on it rather than setting it one by one.

I have toddlers toys for every skill, plus 8 days and free reign to be up and playing.
Low toddlers -1 skill point
average -2 skill points
High -3 skill points

Children can earn 2 more points, so 3,4,5.

Teens can earn 6,8 (for scholerships but I am thinking of changing this) 9

YA up have skills open to 10. However, since low motivated sims can't be told to skill and average ones only if they have a want it's unlikely they will reach 10 unless they are really obsessed with something like the chess table.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#7 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 11:14 AM
Some Sims I see as academic Sims (knowledge ones) - so they will study more than the rest.
Other sims are concentrating on the skills they need, if they pick up one or two others along the way, it is fine.
Example: Scientists and chefs have to study cooking, for the rest, I am happy if they can make a chef salad when needed (over time they may pick up some extra cooking skills, but I never seen one getting all 10 this way).
I think it is more complicated if you use aging mods - I don't, and perhaps that is why I have never felt that I need a restricting skills mod.
Mad Poster
#8 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 11:54 AM
I use Katya Steven's method of motivations to set the limits-and set them for adults to skill only up to the level in their careers they're supposed to be promoted for. For example, if a pixel is a highly ambitious (motivated) one, I let them skill up to level 10 of a career. One that is average I do only to level 7. The unmotivated ones only go up to level five. They can't all be superstars..

Although I must admit It's a bit of a pain having to keep track of the skilling levels. One should also have a mod to keep their promotions in check after a certain level as well, just to add flavor to the restrictions.

Kids are more problematic-I have been setting toddlers at no skills gained, and kids at only level one of any skill. I mean, they should have a childhood, right? They can be grinds when they're teens!

Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
Grave Matters: The funeral podium is available here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e6tj...albits.zip/file
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Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#9 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 12:01 PM
After having a toddler reach a skill level of 10 creativity I decided it was time! The high achievers even had time to gain between 3-5 in most skills-as toddlers, so it needed limiting. With the limiting I can let them play with whatever they like and not worry about it. It just seemed wrong that a newly aged child of 5 could cook (due to kids can cook mod) something like pork chops. My teens wouldn't have time, they only have 10 days. Kids have to go to school, that's where I have them skill, but I may change that more to badges now that I have the practice cash register and the kids pottery wheel, that and do more gardening and fishing. On the flip side my kids have no homework after doing the first book. I consider 'learn to study' to be 'learned to read'. They also have all summer off to do whatever they like. Well unless they live on a farm, then they will be put to work just like the old days.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#10 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 12:32 PM
Alchemist
#11 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 12:47 PM Last edited by Sunrader : 2nd Jul 2018 at 1:51 PM.
It's funny that I see this today. I woke up this morning wondering if I can make an object that, when in a sims inventory, would limit skills. I have a character with an intellectual disability but, I'm so focused on autonomy that they all skill themselves much of the time and he keeps earning logic points. I was thinking if something made him want to logic skill, but the skilling didn't work, and possibly affected his mood... I might see real personality-like differences in him. I'm checking this out for sure. It's a little hard to tell, though - it looks like we need the file from that discussion thread as well as Blender, right? The thing is, though, doesn't Blender work on the lots it's on? Will those settings stay with the sim when he leaves the lot?

EDIT: Looking at the package in SimPE, it appears it uses Blender but it assigns a token so that answers my question.
Undead Molten Llama
#12 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 12:54 PM
I "limit" by only commanding Sims to skill when they have rolled a want to do so. (The exception is toddlers; I don't command them to do anything except use the potty, once they've learned to do that, and I allow them three skill-building toys based on their personality. I have toddler toys that cover all skills, not just the game's that only cover charisma, logic, and creativity.) Otherwise, if they choose to skill autonomously -- my Sims spend a LOT of time free-willing, and I've adjusted autonomy on many objects -- I just interpret that as them being interested in that thing and WANTING to learn, and IMO that should always be encouraged...or at least left alone. Generally, my serious Sims tend to have more "un-fun" skill points, like Logic and Cleaning, the more "cerebral" things, whereas the playful ones go more for Creativity and Mechanical and Body, the more hands-on fun stuff. They're pretty even on Cooking. (Which is good. Everyone ought to know how to cook, if only for survival. ) And of course once they're old enough to have an aspiration, the Knowledge ones (either primary or secondary) will accrue lots of points because they (and Fortune Sims in a career) are the ones most likely to roll wants to skill.

As far as kids being "too skilled"? Honestly, I think that's the mindset our screwed-up school system forces upon us. (Not just the US, where I live, but pretty much everywhere in the developed world.) Sure, really young children don't have fully-developed fine motor skills, so it takes longer to, for instance, learn to write (With a pencil, anyway; younger kids can learn to type just fine, once they can recognize the letters and have enough fine motor skills to hit the proper key on the keyboard) or learn to draw/paint. But generally, the "prime time" to teach kids stuff is...when they are (so-called) "pre-school age" because their brains are literally wired to learn at that age. It's all they're supposed to be doing, biologically speaking. They will pick up things very quickly, much more quickly than an older child, much less an adult, will. Especially things like language arts like reading and foreign languages, but also things like arithmetic and music theory. In the US public school system, they generally don't start actively teaching kids to read until first grade, which is 6-7 years old. Which is stupid; that should be started pretty much from the time their brains and eyes are developed enough to focus on letters, which is around 6 months old. My daughter could pick out simple, phonetically-spelled words out of larger-print books by the time she was about 18 months old because I actively taught her, just as my own parents had done with me. (My son took longer to read because, as it turned out, he has his father's severe dyslexia. But he was doing the same by around 3 years old and could read at a "first-grade level" well before he was school-age. ) IMO, it really has nothing to do with "intelligence" at all, so I'm not doing the parental bragging thing here. It's about effort, generally effort put in by parents/caretakers, not really the kid themselves. I'm convinced that "intelligence" is a result of being properly taught when very young, so that the brain is used the way it's supposed to be used WHEN it's supposed to be used, that it isn't something in-born at all. I think it really does come down to the fact that the school system waits too long to teach things because it concentrates on older children, whose brains are already pretty fully developed. (Which is one reason why I homeschooled.) The time to "get 'em" is when their brains are still developing. My son is far from "academic" or classically "intelligent" -- He became the epitome of "dumb jock" when he decided that he wanted to go to regular school -- but he learned just fine as a toddler, despite his dyslexia....before he "learned" that it wasn't "cool" to be "smart," which is the other god-awful thing about standard school, that its peer environment "teaches" kids that it's "uncool" to learn or to want to learn. But, the standard school system is so culturally-ingrained that it's probably never going away, unfortunately.

ANYWAY, my tangential ranting aside, it actually makes sense to me that Sims learn more skills when younger, not older. It's far easier to learn new things as very young children than it is as a middle-aged adult or even as an older child or a teen. If anything, I'd limit how much Sims can learn PAST a certain age, not before a certain age. I do like the notion of limiting zombies, though! Although, I rarely play zombies, so...yeah.

EDIT (Sorry, I know this post is long enough. ): For my age-modded neighborhoods, so that Sims aren't "maxed out" in everything by the time they're out of diapers, I use mods that makes it take much longer to earn a single skill point rather than skill limiters. This makes it so that younger Sims can still be dedicated to learning without them becoming super-skilled toddler ultra-prodigies.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Alchemist
#13 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 1:52 PM
@iCad, figures that we'd both be homeschoolers.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#14 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 1:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Sunrader
@iCad, figures that we'd both be homeschoolers.


I am as well but have a totally different point of view believing in better late than early and child-led learning for at least the first 7 years. However, maybe we should not derail this too much into homeschooling!

To me a sims skills are not just skills but also life experiences and a toddler simply doesn't have those so I will continue to limit those for toddlers.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
#15 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 2:02 PM
iCad - Sociologists agree with you. IQ is not nearly as dependent on inheritance as was once thought, and nurture is a major factor. Children who have moved from an underfunded and poorly motivated school (a "sink school", as they're called in England) to a good school where children are expected to achieve, or from a non-nurturing home environment to a nurturing one, have shown a significant increase in IQ in quite a short time.

As for my Sims, most toddlers have as many skill toys as their parents have room for, although in Sheffield I limit toys according to parental achievement to imitate real life - if the parents are drop-outs, the kids just have a toy box or dollhouse, but successful parents give their kids everything and always put them down near a skill-building toy to encourage use. Some even give SmartMilk, if they're very serious and very successful.

After the toddler stage, skilling is pretty much by want, except that teens are generally made to cook if they're hungry (although I should probably change that in the same households where toddlers don't get skill toys). Most children have an easel, because children do generally like to paint and creativity is something that should be encouraged across the board. The chess table advertises too heavily and causes too many Sims to max out Logic, so I limit that unless a Sim is very serious and likely to play chess a lot. Same with the exercise bike - lazy and fun-loving Sims shouldn't be working themselves almost to death on it day after day! The piano also advertises heavily, but since only rich households can afford one it doesn't really matter. When the Goodies' adopted son maxed out Creativity halfway through childhood, well, he was the adored only child of older parents, and they were one of the wealthiest families in the hood, so it made sense.
Undead Molten Llama
#16 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 2:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Sunrader
@iCad, figures that we'd both be homeschoolers.


Heh, there are quite a few of us here. Me. Jo. Sunbee. A few others I've "talked" to but whose names I can't remember, and I don't know if they're still around. I unschooled my daughter, even, because she's quite the nerd and highly self-motivated about learning. And I learned a lot by having to teach my kids, so it's good all around. Keeps the brain engaged. I'm done, though. My daughter, my youngest, turns 21 this month and finished her undergraduate degree this past spring. She starts on her Masters this fall. I do still do some teaching for the local homeschool co-op, though, even though I don't have kids in the "network" anymore. Mostly music classes and some private lessons, but also some basic grammar for the really young 'uns.

Heck, I don't even like using the regular school in my game and do not like the concept of "homework" at all, so I don't often use the game's school system, preferring the homeschooling or player-run schooling (that isn't like "standard" school and doesn't have homework) systems that I've set up. I guess I'm a homeschooler to the bone.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Alchemist
#17 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 2:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by iCad
I'm done, though. ...

Heck, I don't even like using the regular school in my game and do not like the concept of "homework" at all, so I don't often use the game's school system, preferring the homeschooling or player-run schooling (that isn't like "standard" school and doesn't have homework) systems that I've set up. I guess I'm a homeschooler to the bone.


Me, too, mine's all grown up.
And, all my teens are in Flexischool. Only the kids in the apartment complex go to school, because I find it so cute when all the kids in the complex come out of their apartments to get on the school bus at the same time.

I also play with aging off (so they skill a lot), and since I make pretty much everything in the game work hands-off/autonomously, I'm interested in a mod that will do the limiting of skilling for me.
Undead Molten Llama
#18 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 2:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Sunrader
I also play with aging off (so they skill a lot), and since I make pretty much everything in the game work hands-off/autonomously, I'm interested in a mod that will do the limiting of skilling for me.


Almighty Hat has what she recommended to use with her age mod at the end of this post this post about it. The "recommended mods" list is at the end of her long post about the age mod. Hopefully the links still works. I use that age mod -- or rather, my tweak of it -- in some of my neighborhoods, which makes for a realistically-long and properly-proportionate toddler/child/teenhood, but don't use skill limiting. I just have, as I said, a mod that makes it take a lot longer for all Sims to earn a single skill point and, like the regular system, the higher the level, the longer an individual point takes. Even with the near constant skilling that toddlers do in my game, and even with toddlerhood being 12 days long with that age mod, it's rare that a toddler gets more than three skill points, total, before they age to child. More often, they have one or two. Sometimes none, depending on the kid. Of course, if you have aging off, limiting might be better, but with a slower-skilling mod you wouldn't have to police it so much.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Field Researcher
#19 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 3:28 PM
I always interpret the skill points as relative to their age: an 8-Logic adult is still smarter than an 8-Logic child, even though the game doesn't treat it that way. Certainly when it comes to charisma or creativity, since children haven't developed enough emotionally to really master those things (children are more creative in the sense that they makes less assumptions and can think stuff works in ways it can't, like flying by flapping your arms)! I have child drawings in my custom paintings folder so that I can direct very creative children to draw something age-appropriate. My sims have too much to do in their live to spend time not learning stuff on purpose.
My sims do 'prefer' some skills based on aspirations: Family likes cooking, cleaning and maybe mechanical (for repairing stuff) or creativity (for work-at-home income); Wealth prefers charisma, creativity and logic; Knowledge prioritizes logic* and spends less time worrying about charisma or body (although it depends on personality); Romance focuses on charisma and body, maybe cooking; Popularity is one of the least interested: maybe creativity for becoming famous and some charisma for telling good jokes; Pleasure is the laziest and mostly develops cooking and creativity. Again, it also depends on personality, very active sims will like training their bodies even though they're Family or Popularity.
*Apparently (high) Logic gives a learning bonus when learning other skills.

Quote: Originally posted by iCad
IMO, it really has nothing to do with "intelligence" at all, so I'm not doing the parental bragging thing here. It's about effort, generally effort put in by parents/caretakers, not really the kid themselves. I'm convinced that "intelligence" is a result of being properly taught when very young, so that the brain is used the way it's supposed to be used WHEN it's supposed to be used, that it isn't something in-born at all. I think it really does come down to the fact that the school system waits too long to teach things because it concentrates on older children, whose brains are already pretty fully developed. (Which is one reason why I homeschooled.) The time to "get 'em" is when their brains are still developing. My son is far from "academic" or classically "intelligent" -- He became the epitome of "dumb jock" when he decided that he wanted to go to regular school -- but he learned just fine as a toddler, despite his dyslexia....before he "learned" that it wasn't "cool" to be "smart," which is the other god-awful thing about standard school, that its peer environment "teaches" kids that it's "uncool" to learn or to want to learn. But, the standard school system is so culturally-ingrained that it's probably never going away, unfortunately.


I can't fully agree with you iCad, for the following reasons:
1: Both I and my 5-years-younger brother are high intelligent, but my 1-year-younger sister has a low intelligence, while I and my sister went to the same primary school and my brother went for a few years to a special school because he couldn't really speak. My parents have an anti-intellectual streak and didn't really value logic, the sciences or learning a new language (they were somewhat proud of my intelligence). My brother and I are both autistic, but that still refutes the idea that intelligence is merely a result of nurture (since autism is a brain disorder, and the brain is physical). Steven Pinker wrote a whole book about the nature/nurture dilemma, I've got to read it sometime.
2: The brain develops for more than 25 years! It's one of the problems of college and university: on average, at that age teens/adolescents actually aren't fully developed yet to take on so much planning and responsibility. Maybe you're talking about something specific of the brain or the size? As I understand it, one of the reasons kids learn so well is because they have all the time to do so and don't worry about running a household, work, social stuff or romantic stuff. Adults can learn a new language just as fast as a kid can, if they get the same time kids get.
3: The idea that you aren't cool or cute when you're smart is indeed awful, but it's a cultural thing. In Asia students are admired by their peers when they score high on tests. A problem with school is that children are relatively little exposed to adult behaviour, which they need to not be mean little tyrants to each other. But on the other hand, personally I'm glad my education was in the hands of more motivated and educated people than my parents. (Well, my father couldn't help it, he's of low intelligence too and can barely read and write.) Other problems with the education system is that curiosity is stomped (not literally) out of children, having an answer is almost mandatory (thereby making people forget that 'I don't know/I want to look that up' is a legitimate response) and low-scoring students are punished for scoring too low even if they have improved while high-scoring students are praised even if they haven't improved.
Undead Molten Llama
#20 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 4:38 PM
Nothing is ENTIRELY nature or ENTIRELY nuture. Pretty much everything is some combination of both. We are slaves to both biology AND sociology, after all. It's just that I don't think "intelligence" is primarily in-born. I think it's primarily affected by environment...or sometimes by rebelling AGAINST environment, like relishing learning because one's parents didn't/don't value it or because you want to spite your social peers/agemates and relish being "different."

And yeah, the brain develops for a long time, but I was speaking of primary skills like language/reading and basic arithmetic and the brain development that affects and supports learning that stuff, all of which happens BEFORE age 5, which is generally when kids start school. Of course, cognitive/developmental/behavioral disabilities will have an effect, and sure, planning and responsibility generally (but not always) comes later, as does things like being able to think about and understand higher math and theoretical sciences and stuff like that, but you don't need that to learn the basics, the things that the average person uses every day. And I think that if more effort was put in early instead of waiting for kids to start school, you'd see a lot more "highly intelligent" people. I think it's fairly obvious why there are more "highly intelligent" people in Asia because, as you said, learning is culturally valued there. In the Western world -- especially in the US where our Puritan ancestors' anti-intellectual and "less is more" and "work hard, die miserable, and enjoy your heavenly reward for your misery" attitude still holds sway -- it's ridiculed. It's getting better now that "geeks" are some of the richest people in the world and people in the West are all about money, but that's a pretty new development. Hopefully, it will continue. But really? It would involve a paradigm shift happening, and those are few and far between.

ANYWAY! I can certainly understand wanting to limit skilling in the game, especially if you use lifestage-lengthening mods and/or in your mind you've tied skilling to "life experience," like Jo. Because yeah, some skills, like playing a musical instrument or cooking gourmet meals, are fully honed only with practice and/or specific instruction, which takes time no matter how "smart" someone is. I just rebel against the concept of "kids can't be 'X'" because they certainly CAN be, pretty much whatever "X" is. It just depends, I guess, on how you interpret what a skill point actually represents. For me, I'd say the first three points are "basic life skills everyone has." Between 4 and maybe 7 points would be "higher learning/further specific practice" and 8 and up would be "exceptional mastery." It's just that I don't think it's out of the realm of possibly for kids (but not toddlers, probably ) to have some of that exceptional mastery in certain things.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Theorist
#21 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 5:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Bulbizarre
I recently downloaded the addon for the Sim Blender that lets you put skill limits on specific Sims. I've never really had a chance to use it until just today - when I decided to add some limits to a recently resurrected zombie (he can't earn any points in body, and not more than 5 for cleaning, charisma, and logic). That made me wonder if anyone else limits how much their Sims can skill up and how that's determined.

I tried but gave up on this.
My sims skill when they want to or when they do it autonomously (I'm all for free will and autonomy).
If I don't want them to autonomously use a skilling item, I use Pescado's Autonomy control.
Alchemist
#22 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 5:53 PM
As for skilling affecting toddlers. I'm not sure. I used to skill them to pieces, but now, for some itinerant families, they don't get much at all. Even for rich families, I no longer direct the toddlers much at all. I use my cocktail of mods for making parents care for them autonomously and then I put toys at fairly equal distances from the toddler's room and see what they choose. It's interesting to see them have different "interests" that way and they usually repeat a toy often rather than check out a new one. I only teach a toddler to walk if there's another baby on the way and I want them to seem to be different ages. (I do something similar with kids. I stop the aging for the "younger" kids (at an imagined 5-6) at the stage where they still run everywhere, and I let the older kids age a day or two so they stop running and seem different.)

What I do think matters quite a lot, and I may just be imagining it, is their aspiration status when they age. My toddlers who do NOT grow up with more than green, even as kids and teens (and I really rarely age so I've been watching these sims for many months at these stages), never seem to catch up on their own. I like it that way. Makes them a bit different and reflects their neglected pasts for stories.

The overriding theme is I do what I can to make them seem like individuals while making them appear to do it all on their own, so my interest in the limited skilling is to add an apparently intellectually challenged sim to the community.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 6:54 PM
I think the smartest people - no matter how high or low their IQ may be - are the ones who make the right choices; the ones who can work out a long-term plan and stick to it and the ones who can become really successful due to something called hard work.
Top Secret Researcher
#24 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 9:55 PM
OMG. That exists?! Skill limiting sounds like a perfect opportunity to limit them based on personality points or inteligence. I saw some post few months back about someone determining inteligence level of their sims based on few factors. I really wanna try and devise a system for this now. Too bad it's kinda not automatic.
But, oh well. Getting the mod this instant!

EDIT: Also, Justpetro. You are completely right. Even though I'm quite inteligent, I'm so far behind people of my age because I usually get caught up in my own dreams and delusions... or am just a lazy ass procrastinator that sits for whole day and watches dumb YT videos. I'm afraid it's an addiction at this point.

On the other hand, people that work hard for a goal, and who can set their eyes upon that goal without letting anything demotivate or steer them are extremely succesful. I can't do that, sadly.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#25 Old 2nd Jul 2018 at 10:11 PM
All an IQ test measures, really, is how good you are at taking IQ tests.

I'm secretly a Bulbasaur. | Formerly known as ihatemandatoryregister

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