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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 4:48 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 26th Jan 2015 at 6:57 PM.
Default Chemistry based on personality
Note: This thread is a specific thread about strategically finding suitable spouses according the sims personality.
So no, Im not going to talk about personal playstyles. Warning for a long post .

Personally, when I trying finding a suitable spouse for my sims, I tends to go after their aspiration (including secondary) and then looking at their lifestyles - what they do for living. Their lifestyle is often influenced by their personality and hobbies. (As well as an personal created social groups, but that has nothing to do with this thread). For example: Popularity/Family Aspiration + Music venue business owner (like a pianoist). Playing piano will trigger creative skills and music hobby, so I tends to give this sort of sim tends to have playfulness as dominant personality, but sometimes its someone who is serious as well (like playing music for the learning sake). If the sim is focusing on singing, charisma/outgoing and dancing body/active. Thats how I personally determine my sims lifestyles.(...and of course there are exceptions and a sim can just have music/dance as a freetime hobby! With hobby, I refering to sims who has an careerbusiness that relates to one of these hobbies. hobby/farmers, literature/authors etc).

Now, if trying looking for a partner to this person and lets say you are trying to get him/her a 3 bolt attraction where Aspiration and Chemistry are two aspects that tends to be easy to adjust to. But there is one area I tends to struggling with, Zodiac/Personality.
Because sometimes, when creating sims this way - both partners personality don't necessary have a good chemistry when it comes to their zodiac, because when I looking at the chemistry charts in the sims 2 guides, the ones with a highest chemistry usually have a similare personality.

BUT.... not all spouse option for the sim example above will be playful.
Capricorn and Aquarius are a high scored zodiac pairing, but when looking at their personality (standard or altered), they tends to be playful and lazy. But lets say the piano sim in the example above is capricorn and hooked up with someone with a complete different lifestyle, such as a active/serious popularity sim who works in a military, I noticed that they are very few zodiac (or none) that give a high score with this type of combination, because their personalities are the opposite. According to the Simwikia guide about chemistry , Aries, Gemini, Scorpio, Virgo and Cancer has Active/Serious as non-altered personalites, but all of them tends to be either negative or one-sided with Capricorn.

So my point with this thread, Is there a way to get around this dilemma? Is it possible to get 3 boltz when the sims has opposite personalities (without alter their personality/zodiac in the game)? Are aspiration and attraction is enough for that?
I've only seen guides about chemistry based on a sims zodiac. But I dont understand how the personality chemistry goes, especially when you are looking for a sim who are opposite dominant personalities. I use spreedsheets for all of my sims and write down most of their personality/lifestyle aspects so this question is not really vanilla-style related (you know when you are trying to figure out the other's personality/zodiac/aspiration.)
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Mad Poster
#3 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 5:09 PM
First: Cyjon's Guide to Chemistry. All the numbers crunched for you. http://cyjon.net/node/86

Second - Aspiration, affection, and Turn-ons are also very important. Affection trumps everything in my experience. People with opposite personalities and compatible aspirations and turn-ons can have excellent chemistry. I've had a number of Virgo/Libra pairings in my time that worked very well. I don't recall their specific signs off the top of my head (Capricorn/Aquarius, maybe?), but Petra Ottomas is Pleasure with nine neat points and Edward Beare is Fortune with two neat points. They hit each other's turn-ons and they triple bolt, although Cyjon's numbers claim Pleasure and Fortune don't work that well together and despite the disparity in personality. Petra's brother Ted also has two neat points and he's married to a woman with eight; ever since he started living with her, he's started autonomously doing dishes and mopping up his own mess in the bathroom. They have compatible star signs and aspirations and they triple-bolt.

Third - Triple bolting is not the only great chemistry; it may even be annoying if you have ACR. Two bolts is good enough for most purposes, and single-bolters who are committed and in love can (and will) blow off prospects with better chemistry and turn themselves into double-bolters. I see it all the time. Just as in real life, couples cover for each other and influence each other to behave in certain ways, and this builds the pair-bond.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Scholar
Original Poster
#4 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 5:14 PM
I've read Cyjon's Guide but I dont understand the personality one (are you suppose to calcuate for all personalties on both sims?) and with 3 boltz, its to learn how to get it without altering zodiac/personality. I do haveve sim couples who have 2 or only have 1 boltz. :P
Mad Poster
#6 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 5:53 PM
I use scope room and take the first 2-3 bolt that my sim goes to and flirt with for most of the time they will flirt with the one they like the most.

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Mad Poster
#7 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 5:56 PM
You can alter turn-ons and turn-offs in-game with the Renu-U potion that sims get when they grow to teen; with the Renu-Yu Orb in the aspiration rewards, and at Junior year aspiration change for college students.

If you have SimPE (or probably other editing tools like SimBlender) you can change it there just by unticking and ticking the boxes.

All calculations of compatibility have to be done comparing both sims to each other. You will note that Cyjon says the personality point math is excessively complicated for the amount by which it affects the attraction - it is not going to be the deciding factor. If you want to have a lot of triple-bolt matches, the easiest thing is to plan ahead - make note of the zodiac signs of new births, spot compatible matches, and when they grow to teen give them compatible aspirations and turn-ons. If you want to mitigate the three-bolt ACR affect, you might give the couple turn-ons that are situational, like ones for attire - if the couple only triple-bolt when in their underwear, they're unlikely to go woohoo on the sofa during their daughter's wedding. If you don't put make-up or facial hair on your townies, than turn-ons for make-up and facial hair will only come into play with playables. And so on.

Chemistry can change over time. A big game-changer can be turn-ons and turn-offs for certain skills, or for job status. Sims with turn-offs for unemployment may have a hard time dating in high school and college; those with turn-ons for high job levels may be attracted to older sims who are farther along their career paths; and those with turn-ons and turn-offs for skills may find themselves attracted to a wider or smaller pool of sims as they age and know more people with lots of skill points.

One reason that I get a lot of chemistry going on in Drama Acres is that I generally choose turn-ons carefully. Nobody gets turn-offs for skillpoints; and no teen starts with a turn-on for gray hair. (Because squick.) When Petra and Edward were born, I saw that they had compatible star-signs and both had Tinkering as an OTH. While they were toddlers and children I encouraged them to use the blocks at the activity table, and when they aged to teen I gave each of them turn-ons for mechanical skill points, and for the other's hair color. In a hood where for some reason I let the random turn-ons stand, like Strangetown, obvious and compelling chemistry is much less widespread. The couples that have it are conspicuous.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Scholar
Original Poster
#9 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 6:37 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 26th Jan 2015 at 7:02 PM.
Peni Griffin:
As far as turn on/off goes, I'm actually doing the same way. I note about their zodiac, aspiration(s) and other aspects when they reach toddler and then plan ahead (I use powerpoint for this and then copy and paste downloaded image icons. Included a screenshot of what Im talking about.), looking for all options available. So that ares in chemistry is a piece a cake. Same thing with aspiration. Ive a downloaded object that allow me to add more turn off/on so if I dont want a teen swooning over elder accaqunteses, I often give them an extra turn off for grey hair.Ive edited townies so they may generate facial hair and glasses but in my main hood I dont use them plus download mods that ban service relationships so thats not an issue.

But when searched about personalities, I often read that sims will have it harder to get along if their personalities clashes (without cheating, which I only do with cas founders, not born in game) and didnt know if it took a big role in TS2 regarding chemistry. Since both Cyjon and you mentioned that the other chemistry aspects are more important I guess I dont need to worry about ended up with couples who are the complete opposite.

Btw: Here is an example of what I usually note down and how I match make my sims. I only note down personalities that are over 7 and below 3.
# Hayden: Royality, Popularity/Family, Classic Music, Creavity, Virgo (Neat, Outgoing, Active, Serious and Nice), Blonde
# Girl Option 1: Aileen (4 years younger than Hayden): Noble, Fortune/Family, Piano, Creavity, Scorpio (Neat, Active, Grouchy), Blonde
# Girl Option 2: Amelia (Aileen's sister, 7 years younger than Hayden): Noble, Fortune/Family, Piano, Creavity, Scorpio (Neat, Active, Serious), Brunette
(When they reach teenager stage, I add the TO's and alter it if I changed my mind with a hacked object of unlimted use of that nightlife potion.)

These sims are only ones that I could look at. Im only at the beginning of the 3rd generation, so this is not the best example, because the sims had alot of common. Only one of the personalities were opposite for first option (Nice 7 and Grouchy 2) while the 2nd option were only some age gaps.

If I calcuated it properly: Aspiration 17.5, Zodiac one sided 0, while TO's will be maxed out 35, so I will get at least 52 in Attraction (I still dont understand the personality penalty/bonus score). 2 boltsers on both option. But despite the first option is a bit grouchy, I think I will choose her as his future spouse anyways. Age gaps are not important to me, but keeping them in similare age helps keeping the generations even (death and pregnancies are not counted in). :P
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Field Researcher
#10 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 6:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
One reason that I get a lot of chemistry going on in Drama Acres is that I generally choose turn-ons carefully. Nobody gets turn-offs for skillpoints; and no teen starts with a turn-on for gray hair. (Because squick.)

Oh yes, that! I usually leave turn-ons / turn-offs to whatever they roll, but skillpoints as a turn-off basically ensures the sim in question will eventually fall out of love with most sims, given enough time. Pretty tragic.
Grey hair as a turn-on for teens (or turn-off once they're older, for that matter... although that one can be mitigated with custom hair) is also a no-no for me. I haven't had it happen too often, thankfully.
Mad Poster
#11 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 8:11 PM
Well, well, well - I never thought it was that important - in my game, two Sims meet, fall in love, get married and that's that. Aspiration seems to trump all as far as I can see. I've found that a neat one cleans up well after a messy Sim, and a playful Sim can sometimes get her less playful husband to take part in a pillow fight; but then - two playful Sims can play well too. As for the attraction markers - well, sometimes they are not too important - my Travellers are very happily married, having no attraction bolts at all, but they sure have a lot of fun together And beautiful kids too!
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#12 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:03 PM
I use the sim manipulator. That allows me to change a sims zodiac sign to whatever I want. Real people are not tired into their zodiac with their personality so why should sims be? I'm a Virgo and lol, I gave my simself 3 neat points. I'm the messiest Virgo ever.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Undead Molten Llama
#13 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:19 PM
My response to the OP's summary question (How do I get them to them to 3 bolts) is...Why do you (I mean, a general "you," not just the OP) want to? Frankly, I don't see how chemistry has much of an impact on a pair's relationship once they're in a committed one. Meaning, you can have couples who have negative chemistry who still have a happy, faithful marriage because, ultimately, their relationship is (or at least can be) entirely dictated by you. YOU decide whether or not they'll be faithful, whether or not they'll stay together or break up, etc. And you can make them "happy" just by fulfilling their wants. It's especially so if you don't use things like ACR (and even if you do, you can set Sims to be "totally faithful.") or free will. So, if you have a negative chemistry couple, they might bicker and such, but you can still develop a strong relationship between them, and in my experience they will get past their obstacles quite easily. even all on their own, if you let them have free will. In my experience, it takes a lot more work to maintain a dysfunctional family than it takes to have/maintain a happy one.

In fact, when I'm not feeling like doing the whole "Find your perfect mate" dance, I will sometimes practice "random marriage" in my game. As in, they don't get to pick their spouses at all, if they're destined to have one at all. I simply pick a name from a list of the Sims in the neighborhood of the appropriate gender for the Sim in question. An arranged marriage, basically. They marry a total stranger with whom they have zero relationship. As such, I've often ended up with married couples with no or negative chemistry. It can be hard at first with the negatives, but I can tell you from vast experience that eventually they can be just as "in love" (and just as ACR-happy, in my game) as 3-bolters, even if they never develop ANY chemistry over time. In my experience, chemistry just dictates which Sims a Sim will gravitate toward naturally, if left to their own devices. It doesn't guarantee eternal blissful happiness. Just like in real life, I guess.

But really? The thing is that, regardless of what a couple's initial chemistry is, if they're together long enough and interact positively often enough, their number of bolts can and will change over time even without you screwing around with things in an attempt to engineer a 3-bolt relationship. So why go to the effort? In my experience, like someone else said, compatible aspirations are the main factor in calculating initial chemistry. So, unless you change the Sims' aspirations, you're likely never going to get an extreme change, like from zero to three bolts. And if you DO change their aspiration, star sign, turns on/off, etc. in pursuit of bolts, then you're basically changing your Sims at a fundamental level just for the purpose of being attractive to a Sim you fancy them being with. Frankly, I don't like doing that. It smacks too much of people who, in real life try to be people they aren't in order to please someone else, romantically or otherwise. Just...no. I discourage such behavior in real life; I don't do it in my game, either. (Yes, yes, I know it's just a game, but I'm not going to simulate a behavior I dislike in real people just because "it's just a game.") And I'm especially not going to do it given that you can add a bolt, sometimes even two, just by working at a pair's relationship to raise it "organically." Which, to me, is indicative of the couple getting to know, like, respect, and love each other over time and for the "people" that they are, just as they are, despite (or perhaps because of) their differences. To me, that makes for a better "story" than me screwing around with a Sim's basic nature, down to their basic personality, in order to make another Sim like them. I suppose I can see doing it with CAS-created Sims, if you want them to start off with some sort of backstory and kind/level of relationship, but otherwise? Yeah, I just don't get it.

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
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Scholar
Original Poster
#14 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 10:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
I use the sim manipulator. That allows me to change a sims zodiac sign to whatever I want. Real people are not tired into their zodiac with their personality so why should sims be? I'm a Virgo and lol, I gave my simself 3 neat points. I'm the messiest Virgo ever.


Except that humans are not programmed like simmies or controlled to do things or those stupid behaviors like waving to literally no where. and all humans are not attracted to the same sort of people.

The sims zodiac doesnt match me either. (Im not a "lusty, Ive no sense of humor and Im not social or outgoing. nor am I attracted to outgoing and playful people. The only thing that matched were 3 active points. Im very lazy person in RL who tends to sleep for 10-14 hours when Ive chance to do so,. )
Scholar
Original Poster
#15 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:30 PM
# iCAD, I think you missunderstood the question.

There are players on here who want to LEARN more about the TS2, how the game works and how the simmies are "thinking" in certain situation. Not every single technical aspects about the game is written in an manual. Sometimes you need to learn from experiences or getting ideas from other peoples perspective about the learning process

Its not like Im trying to get every single one in my game to have 3 boltz for one another, because I haven't even stated why I asked this thread in the first post in the first place. I just wanted to discuss how to tweak the rules the already game already has, because not everyone want to using hacks to achieve this and not everyone are experts in the technical aspects of the game, you know? When hearing other players experience with it is one thing that do help me (and other with this) with this. "

But your preference about the actual playstyle and gameplay, Its a "little" bit unrelated. Like a sim is "fake" if changing their personality or trying please someone by changing their appearance. Thats a playstyle preference and whether someone think sims are shallow for having attraction for certain looks, crying when a sim dies or discriminate others for adding a relgion,violence or social group, its up to them. Its just a bit unrelated to this question but then again, I might be the one who missunderstood your reply of this thread and I know people on here like to wandering OT because I do the same.
But... just as you are learning a hobby or study to achieve something, What's wrong with doing that with a GAME? Because it feels like you are one of those players who hate rules or strategies.... Or is dating talk in the sims just a sensitive topic?
Undead Molten Llama
#16 Old 26th Jan 2015 at 11:53 PM
I understand what you mean, yes. I understand wanting to know how the game works.

But like I said, I'm not sure that chemistry, ultimately, really matters in the game. Sims with negative chemistry, initially, can over time develop chemistry even without changing anything about either character. The game is apparently programmed to alter chemistry with increasing relationship. So, Cyjon's guide will help you to understand how the game calculates chemistry between Sims who don't know each other. That will give you their "initial score," if you will. Their baseline. But it isn't static even if you never change a turn-on or an aspiration or what-have-you. I've had couples who started out with negative chemistry who, by the time they died, had two bolts, without changing anything about them and without them having relevant-to-each-other turn-ons. It happens often.

So, my answer to your question about whether or not Sims who have opposite personalities can have three bolts (and I apologize for not being clearer) is...Probably. It's just that it won't happen right away and you won't see it in a baseline score. It's something you'll have to work at, and I know it won't happen just by changing a turn on. If you (General "you" here) want opposite-personality Sims to have three bolts and you don't want to work at it, then you'll need to make radical changes to one or both Sims,...in which case they will no longer have opposite personalities but rather compatible ones. I, personally, find such an idea to be rather...Well, icky, as I said. I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with me, only that I don't like the (real world) mindset that it's a good idea to try to change yourself or your partner to make them like you more or you like them more. In the real world, that tends to fail spectacularly. Me trying to force my first husband to change after we had a child is what ultimately destroyed that marriage. So, I see no reason to do it with my Sims even though it's just a game. It's a personal thing, yes.

But beyond that, given what I've learned through playing , I don't understand players who'll say, "I don't let Sims marry someone unless they have three bolts with them." Because even if you DO marry less-than-3-bolters, chances are good that they'll end up with three bolts. Especially if they start out with two. To me, chemistry is an indicator of the potential difficulty of playing two Sims if I make them a pair, nothing more. For the most part, I like difficult, so I actually tend to like no- or negative-chemistry couples. I like to see how well they do, in the end, and I try not to force too much on them. Instead, I like to see where the relationship goes organically, I guess. Yes, that is a gameplay choice, but it's also what allowed me to learn that chemistry can change with time/relationship, even if you don't change anything about aspiration, personality, turn-ons, etc. So, the gameplay choice triggered learning, which is usually the case, yes?

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
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Mad Poster
#17 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 1:06 AM
I don't have anything helpful to add, but I understand your annoyance with the personality thing. Haven't they ever heard of opposites attracting?
Mad Poster
#18 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 1:27 AM
The whole attraction system is very limited in my opinion. I get that it's a tricky subject, but it's simplified too far. I don't mind the mechanisms themselves, such as aspirations having bonus/subtraction, and personality and so on, but rather than being a set in stone mechanism it should be individual for each Sim. Not every family Sim is going to be extra attracted to other family Sims, and not every slob wants another slob.

I've also always found it annoying that personality isn't among the turn ons/turn offs. As a demisexual (google it if you want to know what it means) the concept that it's almost all appearance-based stuff is really weird.

I suppose the solution is to not care about bolts with the intended partner, and simply interpret things based on what you think their attraction is rather than what the game states, but that works best when playing free will off since bolts do affect how Sims act.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#19 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 2:02 AM
I'm a very practical person. I prefer my couples to have some boltage simply because it makes for easier dates. I find it annoying to give a couple a quick date to find them rolling 'learn fire prevention' 'Invite so and so over' or 'gain a cleaning skill'. If they have some decent boltage, scope room if alone or flirt check out tends to get those wants rolling for the date again, but less so if they have no bolts. I use dates mostly to get the sims in a good mood or gain enough aspiration points for them to use that smart milk on their toddler. 3 bolters though tend to be annoying because often they would rather stalk each other than go do something interesting. So I have no qualms about changing boltage with the sim manipulator or telling them who they will like.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Instructor
#20 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 2:49 AM
I use "noinstantloves", so I pretty well have to care about bolts, since with that mod it's hard to get them to fall in love if they don't have bolts.

But I find most of my Sims can find an acceptable match by messing around with turn ons, I don't generally bother with signs and exact personalities and stuff like that. If I have plans for two Sims to marry I select their aspirations and turn ons to match up. Usually it works out and I can get my two bolts.
Mad Poster
#21 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 3:19 AM
I find that besides attraction points, turn-ons, turn offs, and aspirations, there is something else that nobody seems to be looking at: whether or not the couple share the same interests. If they do have a majority (or even less sometimes) of interests that they can talk about all the time, they will develop a good relationship.

They can have all the bolts they want, and still not be able to talk to one another.
Mad Poster
#22 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 3:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
So I have no qualms about changing boltage with the sim manipulator or telling them who they will like.


Is there a way to change the bolts only, or do you mean by changing personality/aspiration/turn ons?
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#23 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 3:44 AM
By changing zodiac normally as that doesn't alter the sim in any way. They keep their personality.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#24 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 6:26 AM
It always annoyed me that personality dictated what zodiac sign you had to have. Not all Virgos are neat freaks. Plus, I don't like that you have to spend all your personality points (and can't get extra). Means you have to boost or lower other stats if you want a really low or high one.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#25 Old 27th Jan 2015 at 7:06 AM
That's another reason I use the sim manipulator, it also allows me to add or subtract personality points.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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