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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 3rd Feb 2011 at 8:37 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 7th Feb 2011 at 10:26 PM.
Default Frankenstein Clothing with CTU - Solved
When creating a Frankenstein cloth, do the boneassigments have to be exactly the same on the area where the seams get connected? Or does it matter if the other vertext has 26 value on b_R-clavicle and the other has 24 value on b_R-clavicle? What kind of problems does the mesh bring if the boneassigments arent exactly similar?

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
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#2 Old 3rd Feb 2011 at 8:47 PM
If the bone assignments on a seam aren't exactly the same then when animating in game you'll get holes in the mesh

Hi I'm Paul!
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#3 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 4:21 AM
As Robodl says
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#4 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 12:12 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 4th Feb 2011 at 12:28 PM.
So the seams on the sleeves seem to work fine with similar boneassigment value, but then I have this same freaky boneassigment problem that I believe Robodl had, don't remember for sure but how does this get fixed again?

Also the lighting freaks out in MS for somereason when deleting parts of meshes and companing them together. The odd lighting will show in CAS as very dark shadows - So how to prevent that?

My main purpose with this mesh is that I could learn how to combine many different pieces from various meshes to create new mesh which boneassigments will remain, and then I will create completely new Morphstates since I really prefer using CTU and morphmaker over TSRW. (so this prototype has been created with CTU and BMM)

I would really appreciate any help to get this kind of mesh done, - prevent the odd lighing happening in MS to CAS, and well the boneassigment problem.

I attached MS file and the package if it's needed to be checked out.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: rar  Dress.rar (403.4 KB, 11 downloads) - View custom content

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#5 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 3:06 PM Last edited by BloomsBase : 4th Feb 2011 at 3:31 PM.
wat freaky boneassigne problem?
nevermind, you mean losing boneassignements like in the screenshot?

Robodl had this because he had a older version of TSRW.

ll have a look.

Edit,
the package is missing the normalmap, the reason you get those odd lightning and shadow
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 4:05 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 4th Feb 2011 at 5:10 PM.
Ah so it is not boneassigment problem. Then what might cause that issue of vertexes going like it shows in the attached picture since it can't be TSRW as I used CTU? And how could I fix the normalmap problem? Thanks.

Edit: if there is any possibility for me to make Frankenstein meshes with CTU and not with TSRW I'd be greatful to know how it would work without problems.

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#7 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 5:19 PM
In MS try going to the Joints tab and hitting SelUnAssigned: it may be that those vertices have lost their bone assignments. Does the issue get better/worse if you mess with the body sliders?

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#8 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 5:33 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 4th Feb 2011 at 6:09 PM.
no the body slider doesn't make the issue worse - nor better The morphstate seems to work fine - although it is only a duplication of the original and not yet modified to look as Fatmorph should. I'll try the SelUnAssigned if it would fix this.

EDIT: tried SelUnAssigned but it brought no difference.

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#9 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 6:12 PM Last edited by BloomsBase : 4th Feb 2011 at 6:30 PM.
If you want to create stuff with CTU you best test it without the sliders and morphs first.

*You create a package and add a new design
*Attache your custom lod1 and if possible lod2 and 3
Make sure those GEOMS have the correct comments and change the FVFItems into 6(instead of 7) to bypass the sliders
*Attache a normalmap(either custom or blanc)
*Change the meshname and click commit
*Import your custom textures
*Add the desired designs and attache a diffrent customthumb to each design(you can not add them later but this way you can update them with Postal or s3PE)
*Save the package by using ''save as''
Note,
The moment you save your package the meshcomments get changed by CTU, it changes the first TGI reference(normalmap) because you added a custom one.
All other references get overwritten by the design texture files
The last TGI reference is the skeleton

Test the file ingame
If all looks ok you continue but keep in mind you no longer can use CTU for updating the GEOMS or Normalmap!!
You can however update the other textures/category's/patterns and colors.
Just make sure you use ''save'' NOT ''save as''(you will lose the links to the GEOMS and normalmap if you use save as on a custom package.)

The normalmap and GEOM's you can update with either Postal or S3PE If the mesh looks ok you can duplicate it in Milkshape and make a morph out of it
Give it the correct comments and change back the FVFItems to 7 on the basemesh.
At this point you also need to change the normalmap link that CTU created earlier!!(or export the base GEOM from the package and use that one)
Use the autonum tool to give both meshes their vertID's, then export both

Use BMM to create the slider files

Use Postal or S3PE and update the GEOM(as the FVFItems got updated) and the Bgeo/Bblend files.



Note,
Wes his GEOM exporter has a silly bug that if you update the meshcomment box with new data and try to overwrite your existing GEOM on export the changes dont get saved.
Always save your GEOM by giving it a new name
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#10 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 10:35 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 5th Feb 2011 at 1:44 PM.
I started this over and I'm going to follow the guide you wrote Bloom, but since I'm not familiar with Milkshape that much I really wonder why the Ligth gets very dark in MS - as if it added a spot light when ever on 2D windows, since mesh looks normal on 3D window. It happens right after the last vertextes of the sleeves are vertex data merged and normal data merged. Can I get rid of this anyway or prevent it from happening?

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#11 Old 4th Feb 2011 at 11:30 PM Last edited by BloomsBase : 4th Feb 2011 at 11:41 PM.
If you have a look at the uvmap you can see that the collar for instance has a few meshparts mapped seperatly.
The normals on each meshpart are alligned seperate wich gives you the nice sharp edges

If you now select both vertices(one from each meshpart on the seam) and then choose alligne normals you kinda screw up things.
When you want to realligne those parts you have to select each meshpart on its own by selecting its faces instead of the vertices and then alligne the normals.

So select the top of the collar and alligne the normals, then select the sides of the collar and alligne them
Same thing for the faces arround the collar(outfit)

In most cases you can repair the seams this way but sometimes those seams contain welded vertices.
When thats the case you need to regroup that specific meshpart, alligne its normals, then regroup it back again.
No need to tell you you can not use the normal merge tool on those seams.
If i want to manual alligne normals on diffrent parts of a mesh(i cant figure out the smoothing groups in Milkshape....)i use Demon's alligne normals(MTS2)


Milkshape sometimes has a strange display on close zoom when smooth shaded is selected.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#12 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 1:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by BloomsBase
If you want to create stuff with CTU you best test it without the sliders and morphs first.

*You create a package and add a new design
*Attache your custom lod1 and if possible lod2 and 3
Make sure those GEOMS have the correct comments and change the FVFItems into 6(instead of 7) to bypass the sliders
*Attache a normalmap(either custom or blanc)
*Change the meshname and click commit
*Import your custom textures
*Add the desired designs and attache a diffrent customthumb to each design(you can not add them later but this way you can update them with Postal or s3PE)
*Save the package by using ''save as''
Note,
The moment you save your package the meshcomments get changed by CTU, it changes the first TGI reference(normalmap) because you added a custom one.
All other references get overwritten by the design texture files
The last TGI reference is the skeleton

Test the file ingame


So I got that far and The mesh still doesn't look good. It has the same problem even if has no morphs (FVFItems is 6)

So Is there no possible way to accomplish a mesh like this with CTU?

I was planning to cut of 3 mesh parts and make a new clothing/ dress like this girl, Wendy, in this picture I attached has.
Screenshots

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#13 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 1:58 PM
it is possible and shouldn't give that many problems
I also switched back to TSRW RCV4_V3 and CTU because of the skin/normals bug in the latest version.
Ill have look at the file today, promise
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 2:18 PM
alright thanks alot, I'd really wish to get this work.

I attached the current newtry with this dress, that has no morphs if you rather look this file than the first.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  NewTry.rar (365.7 KB, 10 downloads) - View custom content

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#15 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 3:54 PM
Are you combining these with 3DMAX or with Milkshape?
It has the same errors as the one i fixed a few weeks ago, full of holes
Can you tell me exactly wat steps you take to combine these meshparts?

Think these errors have something to do with one of the plugins, not your meshing skillzz

This is something that shouldn't give all those errors...maybe direct x/Framework needs a update, no idea.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 4:11 PM Last edited by -Mallow- : 5th Feb 2011 at 4:24 PM.
No I haven't used 3DsMax at all - everything is done with MS. I just imported two Geoms files of two different dresses.
*I Deleted the body of the first dress, and the sleeves of the second dress (rather than selecting faces with face tool, I selected the mesh parts by Uvmap and moved them from the body and then deleted those faces)
*Then I made similar boneassigments to both seams on the sleeves area.
*Used Weshis merge tool to connect those sleeves
*Lastly I regrouped them and copy/pasted new comments.
*And created the morph by selecteting the whole regrouped dress and made duplication, and pasted Morph comments.

Edit: when it comes to skills in 3Ds I can do basicly everything but Milkshape? - with it I will have list of problems So I've been doing these different meshing projects in MS to learn the program better. if I could get this Frankenstein thing figured, I might be finally able to make mostly anything I want for sims

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#17 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 4:24 PM
Quote: Originally posted by -Mallow-
I selected the mesh parts by Uvmap and moved them from the body and then deleted those faces.


How you do that?

You can combine meshparts with all kinds of meshes, shouldn't be a problem.
Just do not make a morph in the same process, it will prolly screw things up.

Create you new GEOM from the 2 meshes and export your file, thats it.
Then start new in Milkshape and import your new fullbody GEOM wich you then can duplicate for the morph.

EDIT

Ill try to write a small step by step process as i keep forgetting things....
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#18 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 4:35 PM
Well I assigned plank texture for the mesh, went to texture coordinate editor, selected the area of UVmap (sleeves for example) then went for 2D left view and moved the sleeves aside from the body mesh with Move tool. Then I unselected the whole mesh and with face tool selected the mesh part that was moved aside on Left viewport and hit delete. It is pretty quick method so I ended up using that.

Anyhow about the morph, I will create it then as you told but the Newtry package has no morphs and the frankenstein dress still wont work for somereason.

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#19 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 4:54 PM
* Import the 1st GEOM
* Import the 2nd GEOM
* Delete the parts you do not want on both meshes
* Set the FVFItems to 6 for both meshes
* Export both meshes as seperate GEOMS
* Start new
* Reimport both meshes
* Fix the seams if there are any, use the normal/vertex data tools or snap the verts together and update the boneassignements
* Regroup both meshes into one
* Export the new GEOM mesh
* Start new
* Reimport the new GEOM
* duplicate the mesh
* Fix the comments on the duplicate(set as morph)
* Change the shape of the new morph
* Change back the FVFItems to 7 for the base mesh.
* Autonumber both meshes(vertID)
* Export both meshes

Finally remembered wat is causing your errors.
Things get screwed up when you use the merge tools on vertices with a diffrent vertID, thats wat i forgot..
So you first have to unassigne all vertID's by exporting both meshes with FVFItems set to 6
Sockpuppet
#20 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 5:07 PM
I tried to redo your file several times but i suspect the lower dress part is somehow corrupt
were did you get that GEOM?

Combining the sleeves with the upperbody works fine but there is something with the lowerpart
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#21 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 5:25 PM
So even your guide wont work with that GEOM? Well then it might truly be corrupted geom. The main dress is from base game but the one I got the sleeves from is a store mesh I bought. Everytime importing it to MS I get error of "hashed bone 0xFEAE6981 not in skeleton" perhaps that has something to do with it.

Edit: although I am not using the lower part of that mesh but the skirt belongs to that Ea's base game mesh

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#22 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 5:39 PM
If i want to test this properly i need the original GEOMs, the ones i used now i took from the ms3d file you provided wich is messed up bad.

Oh, nevermind, found it(the jumperdress)
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#23 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 5:57 PM
Here is the original GEOM I cut of the sleeves from if you need to take a look at it as well.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  Sleeves.rar (74.3 KB, 10 downloads) - View custom content

~Perfectionist, Workaholic, Friendly, Artistic, Good sense of humor~
Sockpuppet
#24 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 6:12 PM
Coned the the jumperdress with CTU and loaded the outfit with cutoff sleeves in lod1 and loaded the EP sleeves in lod1_1
All work fine

Ill try to regroup em now to see if it messes things up
Sockpuppet
#25 Old 5th Feb 2011 at 6:28 PM
and it does.....
I was convinced you could could combine parts as long as you create new morphs for it but i was wrong....
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