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Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#26 Old 27th Dec 2004 at 1:50 PM
Let me take a look, because I know Quaxi has updated this since I made the first post....

OK, in the old version it appeared as an XML file and you coulc replace the entire thing in one shot, but now you've got to do it line by line just like you described.

When you paste in your new value for each line, you need to click the blue text below the editing box that says "change". and then when you're done making all the changes, click the commit button.

About the extra line, I don't know what it refers to... maybe some reference to his parents' DNA files as well? If anyone does know why some sims have more lines and what they mean I'm sure interested. The way that the SimDNA plugin is set up at the moment, you can't delete the line I guess, so there's nothing to do but leave it.
Lab Assistant
#27 Old 28th Dec 2004 at 9:48 PM
RGiles - I really appreciate your help and answers as I try to work this out - thank you!

What you told me was very helpful and I saved Daniel's file exactly as you said. I went into the game and had him make a baby with a Maxis skinned and eyed woman to test his DNA.

Would you believe they had twins! One was custom eyed and skinned, and the other was Maxis eyed and skinned (a freak baby too!) Isn't that funny? I have no idea why the twins would have different genetics from one another. I thought custom content always overruled Maxis content? Maybe I am wrong??

I am going to have to get Daniel to have another baby by this woman to check the genetics again. Poor Mary-Sue Pleasant. She's going to freak when she finds out Daniel has had five illegitimate children with other women! It's all in the name of science!
Test Subject
#28 Old 3rd Jan 2005 at 4:46 PM
:bump:

Quaxi, I know you do a lot for everyone updating SimPE so often, but do you have any plans to insert the DNA features in the surgery process?

Thanks!
Space Pony
#29 Old 21st Jan 2005 at 2:38 AM
Here's what I've noticed about that extra line of code that some sims have.

Every single birth child born in the game has it. None of the identical twins born in the game have it. The female of one set of fraternal twins does not have it but the male does. The other fraternal twins have it.

I haven't reached any conclusions on this - as I only have 5 sets of twins but maybe this is related to twins. I have 2 sets of identical twins & 3 sets of fraternal twins.
retired moderator
#30 Old 28th Jan 2005 at 6:24 PM
I ran a little test; just for the fun of things.

I created a new couple, both black hair and brown eyes. One light skinned and the other with tan skin.

I then changed the DNA for the mother and father to show blonde hair, light blue eyes, and light skin tone.

The resulting children (2 tries), both with black hair and brown eyes.

Upon examination of their DNA files, both kids DID get the blonde hair, blue eyes, and light skin tones, but they didn't look like that at all.

So. Is this correct in that no apparent physical changes take place in the next generation after you've changed the parents' DNA? Or are we supposed to see immediate results in the parents' offspring?

:confused:
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#31 Old 28th Jan 2005 at 7:16 PM
Did you start the pregnancy before you changed the DNA?

My test couple when I was trying to figure this out: I gave them both black hair, brown eyes and the darkest skin because all are dominant. Then I changed the DNA to blonde hair, green eyes, and the lightest skin because all are recessive.

They'd always have a blonde haired, green eyed, light skinned baby when I edited this file. If I only changed their appearance, they would have a baby with dark skin, hair and eyes every time, even if I totally replaced their character files with another.

RG
retired moderator
#32 Old 28th Jan 2005 at 7:44 PM
Yes, I modified their DNA before pregnancy. Interesting though, once they transitioned to toddlers, they have blonde hair, but still brown eyes. AND.... they have extremely pointy ears. Elf-like.

I'm going to try it again. Are we certain the numbers given up in the first post for light blue eyes is correct? Has to be because brown eyes is definitely what the parents had to begin with and the code is quite different from what you have for light blue eyes. Anyway, back to the drawing board.
retired moderator
#33 Old 29th Jan 2005 at 3:15 AM
RGiles, never mind. I found the problem. I used the code posted above for light blue yes, but that number is incorrect. The first sequence of numbers should end in 360 and not 3602.
Scholar
#34 Old 5th Feb 2005 at 12:10 AM
Sorry but I'm not especially good in english so...

THANK YOU RGiles for your explanation of the Sim DNA in SimPE !

Last night I wondered (and I was a little excited too...) "it seems so simple : find the line for the skin and find a valuable code for replace it and it would be...". Finally I have found the solution here, 4 lines for the skin (!), ok now I will know !! ;-)

Sincerly this tutorial was be very helpful for me, so again THANKS a lot ! :bump:
Part-time Hermit
#35 Old 12th Feb 2005 at 12:54 AM
I'm getting confused by the skintone DNA. First, line 2 is called supposedly the code for the "dominant" skin tone. However, as far as I understand, no skin tone is dominant over the other (I know you might be only referring to "dominant" as in what is the showing skintone of the sim), but also that a child's actual skintone might be different from both his parents. If we have a child inherit S1 from his mom and S3 from his dad, his actual skintone might end up being S2. How would this show up in the code? Or does it show up in the DNA at all?

Now that I just figured out (today) how to read the DNA in SimPE, I'm making some interesting findings with 2nd and 3rd generation sims. Naturally, for all sims created in CAS or by Maxis, all the four lines for skin DNA code are the same. For second and third generation sims, it appears that line 2 is for the skintone they inherited from one parent, and line 4 for the skintone from the other parent, but the code in line 2 seems to have nothing to do with the skin color they actually have, or "dominance". Say, a sim with 00000001 on line 2 and 00000002 on line 4 might "exhibit" skintone 2. These lines only seem to indicate the two genes he got from both of his parents, but not what his "dominant", or rather, actual skintone is. However, both lines 7 and 10 always seem to have the code for the skintone the child actual has. In the example, lines 7 and 10 would be identical with line 4 and not 2. (Again, I have to say I don't know yet what would happen if the child's actual skintone is different from both parents'.)

I hope I'm making sense, because I keep getting confused myself. Overall, what I'm trying to say is that maybe it's better not to call line 2 the "dominant" skin gene, because there is no dominance with skin genes, and because line 2 doesn't seem to indicate the sim's actual skin color, only one of the skin color genes he inherited.
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#36 Old 12th Feb 2005 at 2:41 AM
You're making perfect sense, IgnorantBliss. That's a very good explanation. Thanks.

This thread was actually my first post on this site. What I was sure of at the time of posting it was which lines related to hair, skin, and eyes. But I didn't and still don't understand all the possibilities that are stored in it. Any additional infor you may gather is very very welcome. :D

RG
Part-time Hermit
#37 Old 12th Feb 2005 at 2:13 PM
OK, I've done some more "research" into this, and found out the following by using the Make A Baby option in CAS (because having actual babies born in game would have taken way too long for this). I assume that the genetics work the same, whether the couple has a baby in the game, or created by using their genetics in CAS. The following only applies to the four Maxis skintones, I have no idea if this applies to the alien and custom skintone genetics. If any of the following information is wrong, please correct me.

- Lines 2 and 4 in the sim's DNA stand for the two genes for skintone the child got from his parents. The order doesn't seem to matter (whether it's from mom or dad, or what skintone it is doesn't seem to affect their order in which one is 2 and which one 4). The child's actual skintone isn't necessarily either one of these.

- Lines 7 and 10, on the other hand, match the child's expressed skintone. If parents that are S1/S1 and S3/S3 by genetics have a child who expresses skintone S2, the child's DNA will have skintones S1 and S3 on lines 2 and 4 (in either order), and S2 on both lines 7 and 10.

- The official Prima guide says that if a child gets genes S1 and S3 from his parents but expresses S2, he will still pass on either S1 or S3 on to his offspring. I found this to be not true: What ever the child's original genes from his parents, if he expresses S2, he will also pass that skintone, and that skintone only, on to his own children. If a sim's genes are S1/S2, and his expressed skintone S1, S1 will be the only gene he'll pass on to his offspring.

I repeated the process in CAS several time with different combinations, and the results were consistent. I'm not 100% sure if it works the same for babies born in the game, but, based on my limited experience with in-game births, it seems to be true.
Test Subject
#38 Old 12th Feb 2005 at 2:23 PM
wow ummm.... that's alot of info
One of those Maxoids
#39 Old 13th Feb 2005 at 2:49 AM
The prima guide is correct. One set of skintones genes is what was inherited from the parents, the other is what will be expressed (may depend on if it is a custom content skintone that has been removed).
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
Original Poster
#40 Old 13th Feb 2005 at 4:31 AM
Tom,

So if the Sim has inherited S1 and S3 from her parents, and her expressed skintone is S2, what gene can she pass on to her own children? Only S1 or S3 (from the parents)? Or only S2? Or any of these 3?

Thanks
RG
Part-time Hermit
#41 Old 13th Feb 2005 at 6:43 AM
The Prima guide didn't seem to be correct about that for breeding in CAS, but I'll have to see what happens with actual babies born in game. When I had parents with S1/S1 and S3/S3 have a grown-up kid (in CAS) whose genetics were S1/S3 but expressed skintone S2, his offspring inherited S2 from him. I clearly saw it in SimPE. You can try it yourself, too.

I may have to consider using the Insiminator to be able to speed up breeding in the game now. I'll get back to you when I have more information.
Part-time Hermit
#42 Old 13th Feb 2005 at 8:26 AM Last edited by IgnorantBliss : 13th Feb 2005 at 8:32 AM.
OK, I used the Insimenator to breed some babies in game. I created a female with skintone 3 (S3/S3) and a male with skintone 1 (S1/S1) in CAS. I got the female pregnant with the male's twins by the Insimenator. Both the twins, of course, have genes S3/S1 for skintone. One of them expresses S1, and the other S2 (the latter's skin DNA is S3 and S1 for lines 2 and 4, and S2 for lines 7 and 10 in SimPE).

I created a female in CAS who's S1/S1, and of course expresses skintone 1 as well, so there is no possibility of gene S2 coming from her. I got this female pregnant with twins with the male twin with expressed skintone 2 from the first family. Both the twins born have genes S1/S2 for lines 2 and 4 in SimPE. One of them expresses S1, and the other S2. Neither one of the twins have S3 anywhere in their DNA. Lines 7 and 10 show the skintone they express: S1 for one, S2 for the other.

The conclusion is that the Prima guide is incorrect about skintone genetics for second and third generation sims. The second generation sims pass on the gene for whatever the skintone they are expressing, regardless of the genes they got from their parents. They can express any skintone within the limits of the skintone genes from their parents, but the skintone they pass on to the next generation is only the one they express.

If anybody gets different results with their games, let me know of course. But the results in CAS and in the game (with the Insimenator) seem awfully consistent.
One of those Maxoids
#43 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 6:55 PM Last edited by MaxoidTom : 14th Feb 2005 at 7:13 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGiles
Tom,

So if the Sim has inherited S1 and S3 from her parents, and her expressed skintone is S2, what gene can she pass on to her own children? Only S1 or S3 (from the parents)? Or only S2? Or any of these 3?

Thanks
RG


The child will pass on S1 and S3. That way we don't eventually get a whole neighborhood of skintones "in the middle."

***EDIT***
Actually, this is the way it was, but it was changed. Users found it really weird that descendents way down the line may start to have lightest skintone or the darkest skintone when their parents had medium skintones. S2 will be passed down.
One of those Maxoids
#44 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 6:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgnorantBliss
The Prima guide didn't seem to be correct about that for breeding in CAS, but I'll have to see what happens with actual babies born in game. When I had parents with S1/S1 and S3/S3 have a grown-up kid (in CAS) whose genetics were S1/S3 but expressed skintone S2, his offspring inherited S2 from him. I clearly saw it in SimPE. You can try it yourself, too.

I may have to consider using the Insiminator to be able to speed up breeding in the game now. I'll get back to you when I have more information.


You are right that CAS is a little bit special because of the way genetics are set and can be changed. In-game breeding follows the prima guide as I mentioned.
One of those Maxoids
#45 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 6:59 PM Last edited by MaxoidTom : 14th Feb 2005 at 7:15 PM.
BTW, if you start up the game with the testingCheatsEnabled set to true in your userStartup.cheat file, you can use the cheat: simDNA <simfirstname> while in a lot to see what the game thinks the DNA is.

Let me try to explain what is supposed to happen (barring any bugs) for skintone inheritance.

- An *expressed* skintone gene is passed down from each parent.
- If one and only one of the genes inherited is custom content (or alien), it will be expressed.
- If both genes inherited are custom content (or alien), then it follows these rules:
* If both parents are "pure-blooded" in terms of expressed skintone or are both not "pure-blooded" there is a 50/50 chance that either inherited gene is expressed.
* If only one of the parents is "pure-blooded" in terms of expressed skintone, then that gene is expressed (this is so users see alien babies as green after alien abduction).
- If only one gene inherited is custom content, it is automatically expressed and the other gene is set as "recessive."
- If both genes are Maxis skintones (i.e. have genetic values != 0), then a search is made for all skintones that have genetic values between the high bound and low bound. That skintone is set as the expressed skintone for both genes.

The skintone range allele was deprecated and is now just a reference point.
Part-time Hermit
#46 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 7:58 PM
Thanks for confirming my findings, MaxoidTom .

Can you tell me if the lines 7 and 10 in the DNA (as listed by RGiles) are both always for the expressed skintone of the sim? It seems that way with the four Maxis skintones, but there were some mentions earlier that with alien or other skintones there might be something different.
One of those Maxoids
#47 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 8:15 PM
line 7 is the first gene of the expressed skintone.
line 10 is the second gene of the expressed skintone.

the allele type is laid out like so:
0 = unknown
1 = hair color
2 = skintone range
3 = eye color
4 = facial features (deprecated)
5 = dominant facial features
6 = expressed skintone

The dominant/first gene is written out to the property set with the type given above. The recessive/second gene is written out to the property set or'd with 0x10000000 (i.e. type | 0x10000000).
Part-time Hermit
#48 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 8:48 PM
OK, this is something I have to look into more still, because I'm not understanding everything yet . If you don't mind answering my questions, though, I'd like to know what's the purpose of two expressed skintone genes, since they will supposedly always be the same? Or can they sometimes be different? Since a sim can only express one skintone at a time, I would have to assume no.
One of those Maxoids
#49 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 9:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgnorantBliss
OK, this is something I have to look into more still, because I'm not understanding everything yet . If you don't mind answering my questions, though, I'd like to know what's the purpose of two expressed skintone genes, since they will supposedly always be the same? Or can they sometimes be different? Since a sim can only express one skintone at a time, I would have to assume no.


The expressed skintone genes are only set equal for skintone genes that do not have a genetic value of 0 (i.e. custom content that hasn't been mucked with), meaning the normal Maxis skintones (not alien).

The reason for this is so that if a sim has an alien baby, that alien baby has both the alien skintone and the skintone from the normal parent. The skintone from the normal parent can be passed down to future generations later; this is so custom content isn't completely lost if there is an alien abduction which results in offspring.
Part-time Hermit
#50 Old 14th Feb 2005 at 9:13 PM
Ahh, ok, thanks. I have yet to have alien or custom skin sims born in the game. This is good to know for future reference.
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