The only thing that is making me nervous is when you guys talk about this not being made by Maxis. I mean, I understand that EA is gobbling everyone up, but they've owned Maxis for a long time. Does this mean it's not the same creative team at all as the previous Sims games? Is Wil Wright gone? I don't keep up with this stuff.

This is the only thing that worries me, because SimCity Socieities (definitely non-Maxis) was supposed to be a pretty big vortex of suck.

EA joined forces with Maxis from 1999, so Maxis created the products, and EA Sold them. From 2006 EA eventually took over completely, Maxis folded and much of the remaining team joined EA. Will Wright would always be the original designer of The Sims, he deserves credit but unsure if Will will still be credited in The Sims 3 and beyond.

Well technically no one will be buying the game at all, instead you will be Renting the game at the price of a full game.

How can you be so certain? I don't see anything in that article that says information will be uploaded from your computer.

"Collects data online." To me this means exactly what it says. It collect data from the internet (i.e. the adverts) in order to display them in your game. If it were collecting information from your computer, it seems like they would have said "submits data online." Besides, how could local software "collect" anything online? It could only collect it locally and then submit it. I really think the wording of that sentence is tripping people up. ...Either that or EA really didn't word it correctly.

By the way, when I said "there seems to be some confusion," I didn't mean my own. I know exactly what you think it means- no clarification required.



If it really were collecting data about you, yes, of course uploading would be involved. But I still don't interpret it that way. My bet is that they'll be using a one-size-fits-all type system, or ads focused on the teen female demographic that the game seems most catered to. I mean, doesn't it seem just a tad bit extreme to gather and analyze millions of player's gameplay information, just to decide which movie poster to put up at the local theater? In the screenshot, I see Ironman and Indiana Jones, which both appeal to a wide audience. It wouldn't be too hard to do the same with billboards.

On a closer read, I think you're right, Purplepaws. The implication is simply that the game will be able to pull updates to the in-game ads from online, and not that the game will be "phoning home". However, what ConradThe2nd is envisioning is definitely a marketer's dream, and we can be certain that it's in the eventual pipeline, if not for this game, then for another. As with online advertising, I believe that the ability to narrowly target ads to specific kinds of users is an inevitability in the game world, and as gaming integrates ever more strongly with the internet, it's just a matter of time.

Actually from different interviews I've seen or read with Will Wright, he mentioned more than once that he had little to do with The Sim 2 (he was working on Spore, which he didn't tell until after the game was announced, but he actually spent about 5 years on the game) and has nothing to do with The Sims 3.

And if you want my opinion on the debate, well at this time I don't plan to ever buy The Sims 3. Not for the DRM and Securom thing (although I'm getting tired of this) but because
1) I don't feel like I'm interested in the new orientation of the game (live neighborhood, other families act at free will as you play one another, ...)
2) I spent time and money on buying all of the various EPs for The Sims 2, do I feel like starting the all process again from scratch? Waiting for NL before I have a downtown, for Seasons before I have snow, for University before I have new careers, for Free time before my Sims can do activities other than work and sleep...?
Beside, at this time I feel The Sims 3 is not going to be (easily) moddable, I'm feeling their going the way of Full Control over the content...

I doubt I'll get Sims 3. Yes, the things said here about it creep me out. But, I have so much invested in 2. So much downloaded & I haven't even been playing it for a year. I have almost all EPs & SPs, and I just like it too much.

I think it's an inevitability as well. I just meant that at this time it's a bit extreme when compared to the the elements of the game. As games grow in complexity, adverts will, too.

Indeed. Not looking forward to it, tho'.

Hey, so, how about one of you notorious thread starters get a thread going with a poll, so we can quantify how many people are planning to actually buy this thing? I would, but I'm shy. :hmm:

I had to lulz at the typo! EA is always complaining about piracy, but this data collecting is making THEM the pirates! How perfect!



Unless, like Spore, the DRM is cracked and torrents are available before the official release date.

i think it's ok as long as they collect statistical data(like hours spent playing, number of expansion packs installed, etc.) and not what you do within the game(you guys don't know how twisted i am LOL)... but the DRM install limit thing is too much for people which are subsceptible to BSODs and data crashes. like moi.

There are ways to "unlock" a phone. Do some Googling

I don't like what I'm hearing in here either. But just an FYI on the info of only being able to install the game a certain amount of times: that's the way most programs these days work anyhow, but if for some reason you have to uninstall and reinstall on the SAME computer, it usually will let you. If it wont for some reason, with other programs at least, you usually just have to make a phone call and get a new license to do it. I would assume EA wouldn't make it any different than Microsoft Word or something like that to reload on your computer. I think they are probably more concerned with loading it on too many different computers. Like my Word programs in the student version, I can load it on (I think) up to 4 computers, but if I reload it on the same computer, there's no problem.

You know most program manufacturers do realize that people may buy new systems and/or have crashes, so I don't think that will really be that much of a problem. They don't want their game distributed to too many computers per disc is all.

I'm not taking up for them or anything, it's just my opinion on the matter.

Lawl... Right when I thinki EA learned from the controversy and civil law suits, they still insist on installing DRM 7. Why EA Why? Whats the fudgin point?

I really wanted to forgive them, but this is just too much.

Sims 3 = FAIL

The problem is, it doesn't take much for a computer to be considered a "new" computer. Something like a graphics card change, a new processor, etc. could easily have your computer classified as a different one, reducing your activations. I've been playing the Sims 2 for four years - in that time, I've owned 4 different computers, and upgraded one significantly several times. Chances are, with EA's new DRM scheme, I'd find myself having to convince them that I deserve to activate my game before too long.

OK, since people are too lazy to look for themselves, I've gone and collected some "evidence".

Just for some background info: DRM/SecuRom, embeds itself in your system as a legitimate application. BUT: due to the way it does it, it opens a tunnel through existing anti-everything. It can by-pass anti-virus and anti-spy programs to send and receive information to and from the internet, because YOU are allowing it to. :smash:

Now you are being monitored whether you spend more time on sex or on toddlers and will present you with ads according to your preference. my job in marketing is to analyse behavioural patterns and to design customer segments. So I know what data can be found and how to exploit it. It is only up to the moral standards of a company as to what extent they will use this.

The problem is: what if a company is being abused and launches malicious code into a seemingly innocent ad? What if your $$$ graphics or $$$ office software does not work anymore? Whom are you going to hold accountable?

OK, down to the facts: this is what EA says about their own software. Scroll to the bottom and read up on their prerequisites:

eastore.ea.com/store/ea/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/ThemeID.718200/productID.107238500

On Amazon, read the comment on this:

amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxMJGUZUP06Z30&asin=B0015YDH6O&cdThread=Tx39GO302PJTRX

Here you can read about the business potential from EDGE:

edge-online.com/blogs/the-sims-3-goes-all-out-on-advertising

This is how it is done:

marketingvox.com/dynamic-in-game-ads-invade-sims-3-041347

And this is the company that provides the ads:

igaworldwide.com

You go and judge for yourself if you can live with this......

I'm not "lazy," I've just read all those before. (Except for the Amazon link, which evidently doesn't work.) And I still don't see any implication that our games will be monitored for the purpose of selective advertising.

How do you know there's even a connection between Securom and the ads? Or for that matter, that just because Securom can send information to the internet, the ads are automatically going to take advantage of this?

I'm no expert on Securom, but it seems to me that these are two separate things.

Your comments raise some interesting points, AndyB, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the potential for targeted in-game advertising is there. That said, you work in marketing, so you surely also know the difference between dynamic advertising and targeted marketing. There is no question that the game will pull ad content from online (a.k.a. dynamic ads, that refresh content periodically) - the articles you link set out that quite clearly. However, there's no evidence to suggest that the capability to mine game playing patterns has been built into the game, that is, the capability that would be necessary for targeted ads. Recommending that a Sim take an Asprin, or Tylenol or whatever brand of pain reliever after, say, getting fired from their job isn't targeted advertising either - it's simply triggered by an in-game event.

Although I agree this is a scary thing this DRM I also have this huge urge to want to play it and I have not *knocks on wood* had any problems with The Sims 2 in the past and I have all EP's and SP's, so I am going to go for it. I do think that it is totally not necessary to have this DRM in game and would love to know why they feel it needs to be.

The good news is that spore is now on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/) without securom and without DRM. Perhaps they'll release TS3 on Steam too, like they've now done with a lot of their games. If TS3 ships with securom and DRM, I'll just wait a little longer to see if it shows up on Steam too. The sad thing is that I REALLY want to play this game, and I would LOVE to give EA my money. However, I won't buy it if securom and DRM are included.

Sorry, Purplepaws, this was not directed at you, but a general statement.

The Amazon link suddenly doesn't work, you are right. Thank you for pointing it out. I can't insert full links due to board restrictions. This is the updated one:

amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxMJGUZUP06Z30&asin=B0015YDH6O&cdThread=Tx39GO302PJTRXQ

I am starting to get interested in this - also from a professional point of view as it is clear I need to decide where this stops and what I am willing to do for money.

On mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=92938

I found this:
Budgets rise, but the fledgling media still faces significant challenges before it can take an even bigger portion of ad spend from major brands. One issue that media buyers have called out on the table is the need for technology companies that insert ads to dig deeper for data, although executives at DoubleFusion, IGA and Massive believe their respective technologies can support metrics well beyond other media.

And this is my point: how deep do you dig into the data? How do you control what is being displayed by whom and when? How do you dichotomize benign and malicious?

My worry is that the "tunnel" generated by Securom can be abused. Horribly abused and then it's my loss as I gave my consent during installation.

Or maybe I hate being the guinea pig....

That paragraph seems to be implying that such technology does not exist yet, or at least has not been implemented. ...More of a goal in the marketing world. While this may be cause for concern at a later date, I don't think we're in danger with the current game.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me like advertisers wouldn't have direct access, anyway. They'd just buy the ad space, submit their ad (which would probably only be in image form at this point), and then IGA would review it and add the necessary code to tell it where to show up in-game. So the only way to abuse the system is if IGA, themselves, added the malicious code. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though, as I'm only speculating and don't claim to know anything about the process.

You would think the world has enough advertising, Television, Internet, Newspapers, Bulletin Boards, etc. A Computer Game is the only way to get away from the real world for an hour or two.

I like to play a Computer Game and immerse myself in their world for a hour or two, not to keep being reminded of whats happening outside my game all the time.

Its like reading a novel and getting distracted every 5 mins.

Exactly. Many people don't even download custom content with legible text for that same reason.

Someone on this thread posed a good question about what would happen if you go into the game without being online. Obviously, EA wouldn't require an internet connection every time you play the game unless they wanted to cause a major upset in the community, so there you'd think there must be an option to turn ads off, if only by simply being offline. It would be wonderful, though if there was a choice to turn it off in the game options, to avoid this nonsense altogether.

So, with all this revenue that EA will be making off advertising in their games, how much will the price of the game drop; or is it just going to line the corporate pockets? Oh, how stupid of me to think they might reduce the game prices!

Well, launch is only 6 weeks away....

I hope that some of us have created sufficient awareness to make people a little bit apprehensive. Just enough to check the EULA before consenting automatically.

And I'm really looking forward to hearing about the first impressions as I hope people will experiment with their connections and bar any outward traffic to IGA or EA or whomever.

Then my speculation will be over and I can talk about hard facts.

I still wonder if I'll but the game just to be a pain for support.....

Which leads me to a different thought: I feel sorry for all the creative and really wonderful creators/writers/coders themselves, who have put so much work, effort and their best abilities into this product. It is really not their fault that the sales and marketing people have decided to put this product on the market like this. And I doubt that many people would quit their job nowadays for moral reasons.