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Mad Poster
#26 Old 8th May 2008 at 3:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by kinneer
It is also the idea that I am being checked constantly for a game which I paid for. And why 10 days? If I stop playing for a month, what happens? Will my game stop working?


They're probably trying to make sure that people that already bought the game and registered their copy don't suddently try to use pirated copies and fake CD keys. lol
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world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#27 Old 8th May 2008 at 3:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
They're probably trying to make sure that people that already bought the game and registered their copy don't suddently try to use pirated copies and fake CD keys. lol


They're trying to make sure that if you've legitimately bought the game, that you don't then put up your legitimate key on a warez/piracy site for others to use illegitimately. They'll be checking warez/piracy sites and when they find CD keys listed there, they'll blacklist them. If your game is using one when you go to have your 10 day activation, it won't let your game run (and presumably will give you some kind of related error).

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Forum Resident
#28 Old 8th May 2008 at 3:47 PM
Okay, I work at a resteraunt, and we have to go to monthly staff meetings where our bossy says stuff like "We are here for the customer" and "If you don't make the customer happy, do you know where that hurts you? In your pockets."

Now that's annoying to hear everyday, but it's true. As much as I hate sucking up to annoying people, if they didn't come in and eat, I wouldn't have any money. It's that simple. If I went around harrasing my customers, I'd be broke.

I really don't see how a gaminhg company can stand to treat their customers in this way. If they do, we won't buy their games and they won't make any cash, and then they won't have the funds to make new games, everyone will be out of a job and no one's kids will get Christmas presents that year.

I kind of doubt that this code activating thing will really happen. It seems so unrealistic that I just can't imagine it. Having to have internet access to play an offline game? It makes no sense.

Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.


Mad Poster
#29 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
They're trying to make sure that if you've legitimately bought the game, that you don't then put up your legitimate key on a warez/piracy site for others to use illegitimately. They'll be checking warez/piracy sites and when they find CD keys listed there, they'll blacklist them. If your game is using one when you go to have your 10 day activation, it won't let your game run (and presumably will give you some kind of related error).



Lol, I will make sure to put my CD Keys in a safe deposit or something. I'm sure that some smart people will find a way to go around that too, perhaps even make it believe that it's not yet time for the 10 day activation. It's been known to happen before.
#30 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
They're trying to make sure that if you've legitimately bought the game, that you don't then put up your legitimate key on a warez/piracy site for others to use illegitimately. They'll be checking warez/piracy sites and when they find CD keys listed there, they'll blacklist them. If your game is using one when you go to have your 10 day activation, it won't let your game run (and presumably will give you some kind of related error).


They'll physically check every warez site for CD keys? I doubt it. The check for duplicate keys should be made at the initial registration or in this case, in the ten-day check up. They seriously have time to be checking every warez site on the planet instead of implementing something simpler? If they have the ability to blacklist a key, surely they have the ability to keep track of them properly to begin with.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#31 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:15 PM
Well as long as you don't tell anyone your CD keys, you shouldn't have any problem with the activation. Yes, it's a stupid system, but assuming you have regular internet access and don't give out your CD keys it should work okay.

But there absolutely will be ways around it shortly after the game is released. Every game in the past 10 years worth having has been cracked and available pirated shortly after release. SecuROM, SafeDisc, StarForce, having to have the CD in the drive - none of it has stopped people determined to have the game without paying. It usually doesn't even take that long for games to be cracked and available free online, no matter the copy protection. I don't know of any games that have required exactly this asinine system before, but it is definitely only a matter of days, maybe a week after the games come out with this system before it's circumvented.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

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#32 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:25 PM
K I must be missing something. What good would someone else's key be in the first place, as long as the proper method were in place to prevent the game even installing without a unique key?

(and yeah of course this will be circumvented, we already know this will happen)

But my point is, this new method is bassackwards to begin with, it's not even logical. If they can't make it so the game won't install with a duplicate key, why bother even checking for duplicates and blacklisting? And vice versa, and back and forth ad nauseum....
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#33 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:36 PM
Bioware has said they'll be checking warez/pirate sites for CD keys put up there. From the thread Delphy linked to, page 1...
"Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

Please feel free to ask any follow up questions in this thread and I will try and answer them when I can."

Question from user: "Pray-tell what is exactly deemed public?"

"When we find a CD Key on a warez site or publicly posted somewhere. Like if you posted your CD Key for public consumption here on our forums.

I believe that the SecuROM settings are for up to 3 activations.

There is no banning or such if you go beyond the 3 activations, it just won't activate. If you run into any issues with this, you will be able to contact EA tech support and they will help you resolve any problems you have getting your game to run, including issues with SecuROM."

The game can install with a duplicate key - up to three times, before you must contact EA for manual activation. So you could, hypothetically, install the game on your computer at home, on your laptop, and your work computer, and still play just fine as long as the computer(s) you want to play on has internet access.

I ain't saying it's a good system, just going by what Bioware has said it will work like (and that they're saying that Spore will have the same system).

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
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#34 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:50 PM
So, there is a server with a database that checks ONLY the banned CD keys, and that's what performs the check...lol "when we find a CD Key on a warez site or publicly posted somewhere."

And there is no database of the CD keys for people who legally obtained their games, to protect them in the first place without all this additional hassle? LOL, focusing on the problem instead of the solution always fails.

*repeats self from several posts ago* Still makes zero sense.
Mad Poster
#35 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:51 PM
I suppose a game borked up by custom content that also requires expensive overseas phone bills to run won't be very popular. Outside of America at least, though given the size of it making coast to coast calls might be expensive there too.
#36 Old 8th May 2008 at 4:51 PM
But I *don;t* always have regular internet acess. This BETTER be marketed as an "online game", because otherwise it's just plain lying.


I'm definately not buying it right away. Which makes me sad, cause I'm a huge fan of Spore.
But I'll wait a few months and see if people have serious problems. Games should not be a hassle... they should be fun.
They should do like Warcraft, have a totally unique key and a log in.
This way, there arent keys everywhere, and It's super hard to steal Warcraft.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#37 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:08 PM
Edit: Here's an absolutely brilliant editorial on copy protection schemes (not only for PC games but for movies and music) that makes some excellent points: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/user-friendly ... I strongly recommend everyone read it, as it gives some great perspective, history, and excellent points on the matter.

SimsArtThat - If you legally obtain the game, and then share your CD key publicly, you will get blacklisted. If you never share it publicly, you'll be fine. If you don't have a blacklisted CD key your game will run just fine when it goes to activate.

Faithlove13xxx - The Bioware staff member answering questions in the thread Delphy linked to says it will be marked clearly on the packaging.

Of course, knowing how many users never read the packaging (including very important information like system requirements), I'm sure many users will miss this entirely.

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
#38 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HystericalParoxysm
SimsArtThat - If you legally obtain the game, and then share your CD key publicly, you will get blacklisted. If you never share it publicly, you'll be fine. If you don't have a blacklisted CD key your game will run just fine when it goes to activate.



Yeah, I read all that several times, thanks, that wasn't my point. (Doesn't really care about Spore anyway, just frustrated with the lack of logic)
Alchemist
#39 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
Lol, I will make sure to put my CD Keys in a safe deposit or something. I'm sure that some smart people will find a way to go around that too, perhaps even make it believe that it's not yet time for the 10 day activation. It's been known to happen before.


exactly
#40 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:57 PM
...Fine, but delete yours too then.


I still am not sur it's illegal if you OWN the game, but ok.
#41 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:59 PM
lol, no I mean delete the one where you quoted me.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#42 Old 8th May 2008 at 5:59 PM
http://forums.sims2community.com/showthread.php?t=14

Please do not advocate or admit to the use of no-cd cracks anywhere on this site. Illegal or not, because it often causes issues, and because it is so wrapped up with piracy, it is against site rules (and always has been).

I have not issued -any- warnings for this thread, yet - only alerts. Please review the site rules and my previous post on the subject. I think this scheme is stupid too, but advocating the use of no-cd cracks, cracks to get around activation, or pirating the game is not allowed. You can discuss it in general terms (i.e. "I'm sure there will be a crack out that will circumvent this," is okay but "I'll just get the crack when it comes out to circumvent this," is not).

my simblr (sometimes nsfw)

“Dude, suckin’ at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.”
Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
#43 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:01 PM
so many egg shells.


I'm still mad this whole time they marketed this game as a normal game, and then all the sudden said it's an online game.
Forum Resident
#44 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:06 PM
Bah, there are other ways to fight piracy, Valve (the company that made Half-Life 2) has a specific game client, Steam, which you install on your computer. Upon installing the retail version of a game, you enter a CD-key that's then bound to your Steam account forever. If it's an offline game, you'll be able to play it in offline mode for all the time you want, but when you run Steam in online mode, you can get patches/updates for the games installed on your account, buy more games or install any of the games that are bound to your account from any computer with an internet access without the CD, by downloading it directly from Valve's database (the game can still be installed from the CD).

My point? Other companies have been smart enough to figure out ways to make the fight against piracy be too much of a hassle, and even come in a form that has its perks for the end user. EA, though... well we all how they are, don't we?
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
#45 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:12 PM
Quote: Originally posted by crocobaura
I suppose a game borked up by custom content that also requires expensive overseas phone bills to run won't be very popular. Outside of America at least, though given the size of it making coast to coast calls might be expensive there too.


I fail to see what little, if any, logic you are trying to use here. Since when did internet access require "expensive overseas bills" or "coast to coast calls"? Also, speculating that "it might be in the Sims 3" when we dont actually know what is in the Sims 3 (and thats still a year or more away) really doesn't help.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
#46 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:26 PM
Let's just sum up some facts, as we know it:

- You may install these games on up to 3 times using the same CD key
- The game will check at 5 days, then silently verify the CD key
- If it cannot check at 5 days, then it checks again in 10.
- If, at the 10 days check, it fails becuase of no internet connection, then the game will become de-activated.
- If you decide to not play for a while (11 days or more) then the next time you play it will check and activate transparently.
- The game will not magically "break" if you don't play it for a month. See above point.
- Becuase of the online check you do not need to have your CD in the drive at all.

My own personal thoughts is that either they'll change it prior to release or the activation servers will get totally hammered and go down at launch and they'll get so many complaints they'll change it later.

But if they don't, I'm perfectly willing to have it check once every 10 days in leiu of not have the CD in the drive. I don't really see what the big deal is unless your gaming PC isn't connected to the internet - and even then, I'd say that's an extremely small demographic.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
#47 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:43 PM
It's like the big brother of the gaming world. I have no interest in Spore as it's not my kind of game but if they do this with TS3 I will most definitely NOT be buying it!
Forum Resident
#48 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:44 PM
It is a big deal for me. A minor reason is that I am sometimes without Internet for 10 days due to inclement weather (I'm in the middle of nowhere, last people they get to, with an ISP that has a monopoly and when lightning strikes something of theirs and they have to order a part, it can be a while). That doesn't happen often - very rarely in fact - but it does happen. And when I don't have Internet is when I most need my games, because I have less to entertain me.

The big reason is the priciple of the thing. I legally purchased this - that means I get to play it. This is more like renting with a one-time, up-front cost, and crappy owner to deal with. Don't do what they like and they take it away (disable it). I'm not doing it. I wouldn't have a car or a toaster oven if they could disable it if I didn't get ownership verified every ten days, and I won't have a game like that, either. At least, not until all the games go this stupid, stupid route, and I have no other options. And probably not even then, since the only two "real" games I have are The Sims 2 and Zoo Tycoon 2. And neither of those is exactly new or cutting edge.

I know they don't care a bit about losing the one little sale they'd have gotten from me. But they still aren't getting it.

Quote:
It's like the big brother of the gaming world.
Precisely. I don't need spyware, malware, nannyware or anything else on my computer that tells anybody else what I have or what I'm doing or stopping me from doing what I want (within in the law) with my legally purchased software. It's just the priciple of the thing to me - I shouldn't have to prove my innocence every ten days. And, on a less likely note, you hear every so often about companies that end up collecting more info than they said they would, and my computer transmitting anything without my consent just doesn't work for me.
#49 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by The_French_Sim
Bah, there are other ways to fight piracy, Valve (the company that made Half-Life 2) has a specific game client, Steam, which you install on your computer. Upon installing the retail version of a game, you enter a CD-key that's then bound to your Steam account forever. If it's an offline game, you'll be able to play it in offline mode for all the time you want, but when you run Steam in online mode, you can get patches/updates for the games installed on your account, buy more games or install any of the games that are bound to your account from any computer with an internet access without the CD, by downloading it directly from Valve's database (the game can still be installed from the CD).

My point? Other companies have been smart enough to figure out ways to make the fight against piracy be too much of a hassle, and even come in a form that has its perks for the end user. EA, though... well we all how they are, don't we?


Brilliant, and a great example, very close to the logic I was hoping for as a better solution.
#50 Old 8th May 2008 at 6:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Tzigone
I know they don't care a bit about losing the one little sale they'd have gotten from me. But they still aren't getting it.


That may be true, but if you add up all those little sales from people who are equally as pissed off then that'll equal one big pile of cash, something i'm sure they'll care about then. The one thing I think they should be more concerned about though is losing our respect
 
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