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Original Poster
#1 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 4:42 PM
Default Large Hadron Collider/End of the World Machine
In Switzerland on Wednesday, scientists are going to switch on the Large Hadron Collider- a particle physics machine which will accelerate, then collide photons to recreate conditions after the Big Bang.

It all sounds okay, and I know they're building this machine for the sake of scientific knowledge, but there is still that naggling little 1 in 50,000,000 chance of the machine going very badly wrong. And if it does, then a possible result will be the destruction of the universe (and no, I'm not overexaggerating- it could well create a black hole).

So... is it okay for this machine to be turned on? Should those scientists be allowed to risk the lives of everyone and everything in the universe for the sake of science, or should someone step in and tell them to shut down? Is all the hype just paranoia- since I know I'm not a fan of the idea of only having three full days left to live.
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#2 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 4:50 PM
I've never heard of this machine, but from what I've just researched, it seems very interesting.

"Nature forms black holes when certain stars, much larger than our Sun, collapse on themselves at the end of their lives. They concentrate a very large amount of matter in a very small space. Speculations about microscopic black holes at the LHC refer to particles produced in the collisions of pairs of protons, each of which has an energy comparable to that of a mosquito in flight. Astronomical black holes are much heavier than anything that could be produced at the LHC."

(http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html)

I don't think it could destroy the universe, but it may backfire and have serious consequences (but nothing compared to the end of the world). The scientific knowledge they could gain from this machine seems to outweigh the risks to me.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#3 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 4:53 PM
Something that complicated, there's bound to be issues with human error. My prediction is that they'll flip the switch, something will go "POP!!" and it'll knock out the electricity in the whole building and the surrounding city.

It's not going to destroy the -universe- either way, even if it somehow does create a black hole which destroys the earth. The earth, the solar system, sure, maybe (extreeeemeely unlikely though!) but the universe itself has many many black holes and gets along just fine with them.

Some people thought that atomic bombs would vaporize the entire atmosphere - obviously that wasn't the case. Certainly not full of hugs and puppies, but not the grand doom some were expecting.

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Scholar
#4 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 4:59 PM
The way I see it is, even if it does end the planet, everyone will die so we wont be missing out on anything.

Although, death in a black hole isn't very nice. 100s of years of being slowly stretched. Niiice.
Theorist
#5 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 5:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Ferret II
Although, death in a black hole isn't very nice. 100s of years of being slowly stretched. Niiice.

Will we be even ALIVE though?
Like;

Flip the Switch > Boom! > Crap! > *Shurrrlllpp* > Back Hole Continues to get Bigger > etc.

Will we FEEL it? Or will we just get stretched into the Nothingness, OR MAYBE WE WILL GET SUCKED INTO A PARRELEL UNIVERSE! :smash:

Oh its Like Recycling this one, Possibilities are Endless you know


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Scholar
#6 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 5:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PETCHY14
Will we be even ALIVE though?
Like;

Flip the Switch > Boom! > Crap! > *Shurrrlllpp* > Back Hole Continues to get Bigger > etc.

Will we FEEL it? Or will we just get stretched into the Nothingness, OR MAYBE WE WILL GET SUCKED INTO A PARRELEL UNIVERSE! :smash:

Oh its Like Recycling this one, Possibilities are Endless you know


Yeah, you'd feel it.

Quote:
Spaghettification

An object in any very strong gravitational field feels a tidal force stretching it in the direction of the object generating the gravitational field. This is because the inverse square law causes nearer parts of the stretched object to feel a stronger attraction than farther parts. Near black holes, the tidal force is expected to be strong enough to deform any object falling into it, even atoms or composite nucleons; this is called spaghettification. The process of spaghettification is as follows. First, the object that is falling into the black hole splits in two. Then the two pieces each split themselves, rendering a total of four pieces. Then the four pieces split to form eight. This process of bifurcation continues up to and past the point in which the split-up pieces of the original object are at the order of magnitude of the constituents of atoms. At the end of the spaghettification process, the object is a string of elementary particles. The strength of the tidal force of a black hole depends on how gravitational attraction changes with distance, rather than on the absolute force being felt. This means that small black holes cause spaghettification while infalling objects are still outside their event horizons, whereas objects falling into large, supermassive black holes may not be deformed or otherwise feel excessively large forces before passing the event horizon.


Basically, we'll all be spaghettified XD
Field Researcher
#7 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 5:53 PM
Guys, my physics prof worked on this thingy. He says that the black hole theory, while making a good story, is science fiction, not science. Now, I've seen a documentry that list several ways the world could end on one day (not so much the world ending as a very big disaster) including the east coast tsunami (volcano in the Canary Islands could erupt in just the right way and send a 500 foot tall wall of water dead straight for the East coast of the US, some of the most densly populated places in the to be hit all at once), a pandemic, an asteroid on a b-line for a major city (though very unlikely. An asteroid collision is like a cosmic hurricane, we can see it coming with time to spare. Comets, on the other hand, we can't see until they are 6 months from inpact, which is pushing it), and of course, the black hole theory which was the only one that wasn't recoverable from and the only one that was FAKE according to the people who made the series.

I'm all for thorwing the switch. This thingy (hopefully the word thingy can explain my technical no how of the colliders) could lead to a break through in anti-matter which would be the most energy efficient substance immaginable and is totally enviromentally friendly (if completely obliterating regular matter, any regular matter, is your idea of environmentally friendly (think elliminating nuclear waste, pollution, ect.)) and one kilogram of antimatter, mixing with one kilogram of matter, produces enough energy as 47 megatons of TNT. Compare that to the largest nuclear bomb, which had a yield of 57 megatons of TNT for hundreds of Kilograms of Uranium and Plutonium. Did I mention it produces no radiation? That helps. We're still a long way off from that, but if we could produce enough, one station could power an entire continent and then some.
Theorist
#8 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 6:20 PM
If we only did that which was 100% safe, we would never get out of bed in the morning. I am inclined to agree with those who think its a little too early to be crying the sky is falling. Black holes in space are formed by stars collapsing in on themselves, the scale of which is far, far greater than we could ever achieve. At best, (or worst, I suppose) scientists MIGHT create a super tiny pocket black hole. But, that's about it. World isn't going anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama on ABC's This Week, discussing Obamacare
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore
umm...Isn't having other people carry your medical burden exactly what national health care is?
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retired moderator
#9 Old 6th Sep 2008 at 6:41 PM
I have been waiting for this for so long- soon we'll know whether the Higgs-boson exists or not! It's the ultimate question at the moment.
Forum Resident
#10 Old 7th Sep 2008 at 1:05 AM
There can't possibly be a Higgs boson. That would mean that God didn't create the world four thousand years ago and hide dinosaur bones just to confuse us about it.

Personally, I'm rooting for a black hole. Even if they could create one, it would not swallow the earth. At best, they could only create an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny black hole that would fly out of the LHC at nearly the speed of light and go off to visit some other solar system. And we would try to take pictures of it as fast as we could, which would be challenging, because they don't make very good flashbulbs for taking pictures of black holes yet.
Field Researcher
#11 Old 7th Sep 2008 at 3:04 AM
I read the thread title as "Large HARDON collider".

My interest was peaked, but once I realised my mistake, I slipped back into my normal apathetic state that I take whenever people believe the world is about to end.
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#12 Old 7th Sep 2008 at 9:53 PM
*Simsample laughs at what Doc Doofus and spatulageekgirl said*
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 2:55 AM
Quote: Originally posted by hszmv
Guys, my physics prof worked on this thingy. He says that the black hole theory, while making a good story, is science fiction, not science. Now, I've seen a documentry that list several ways the world could end on one day (not so much the world ending as a very big disaster) including the east coast tsunami (volcano in the Canary Islands could erupt in just the right way and send a 500 foot tall wall of water dead straight for the East coast of the US, some of the most densly populated places in the to be hit all at once), a pandemic, an asteroid on a b-line for a major city (though very unlikely. An asteroid collision is like a cosmic hurricane, we can see it coming with time to spare. Comets, on the other hand, we can't see until they are 6 months from inpact, which is pushing it), and of course, the black hole theory which was the only one that wasn't recoverable from and the only one that was FAKE according to the people who made the series.


:O Ahhh!!!!
Test Subject
#14 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 2:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by spatulageekgirl
I read the thread title as "Large HARDON collider".

My interest was peaked, but once I realised my mistake, I slipped back into my normal apathetic state that I take whenever people believe the world is about to end.


That is what I affectionately call the LHC you know. In fact it's my MSN name now

But yeah I don't think we're all going to die. I think people are just overreacting as always.

~Love is blind, i know this because you cant see me!~
#15 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 2:32 PM
Test Subject
#16 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 2:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Elwood


:howdy:

Edit: Too graphic?


If the world ended this way, at least I'd die laughing :D

~Love is blind, i know this because you cant see me!~
Field Researcher
#17 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 2:50 PM
I LOL at the people that hear about this and complain without knowing what's going on. Like "OMG i heard it on tv, they can't do that, they're dooming us all!"

What amuses me is that I haven't heard this anywhere on tv! I don't watch much tv anyways, but the fact that I haven't heard about it in any news program is interesting. And possitive, I suppose. It's the Y2K all over again... but just on the internet.



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#18 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 3:32 PM
The way I see it is this:

The world doesn't end: Awesome.
The world blinks out of existance: We won't know, therefore we won't care.
The LHC creates a TINY parallel universe: Miniature dinosaurs, anyone?
Scholar
#19 Old 8th Sep 2008 at 6:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Nissun_
I LOL at the people that hear about this and complain without knowing what's going on. Like "OMG i heard it on tv, they can't do that, they're dooming us all!"

What amuses me is that I haven't heard this anywhere on tv!


Its been on the News in the UK, and Mock the Week.

@ the comics XD
Field Researcher
#20 Old 9th Sep 2008 at 9:14 AM
I mean in Spain. There was something in last night's news, tough. I walked out of the room, didn't want to hear it.
Banned
#21 Old 10th Sep 2008 at 4:35 AM
http://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/news/item/?item_id=101656

Info on the LHC stuff happening soon!

Live webcast!
http://webcast.cern.ch/index.html

First beam is at 9am local time for them, so 2am est, 7am GMT
Field Researcher
#22 Old 10th Sep 2008 at 10:29 AM
We have one more hour to live people! ARGH!
Scholar
#23 Old 10th Sep 2008 at 10:38 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Lauren
We have one more hour to live people! ARGH!
lol It's actually going to take a few weeks before they get it fully working.
Scholar
#24 Old 10th Sep 2008 at 11:15 AM
The machine has been operational since August. This Wednesday marks the first time a particle (actually, a few billion particles at once) has completed a full circuit of the machine's loop.

They won't be using it for any real experiments until October some time.
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 10th Sep 2008 at 11:40 AM
We're pretty much ultimately going to wipe ourselves out one way or another, be it nuclear war, Genetically Modified viruses, human activity contributing to global warming, or someone somewhere pushing the wrong button on some supercomputer or another.
 
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