Does that mean that when you're in the company of white people, you'd say, "That's so n**gerish!" or "That's so Japanese?" I think that's pretty hypocritical, to use one word with some people and a different one with other people. If you really cared, you'd try to change your lexicon and encourage others to do the same. I do appreciate your honesty.

I don't use "gay" in a derogatory manner anymore, and I'm trying not to use retarded anymore. What spurred me to try to change? When I almost used "tarded" at a Down's Syndrome Benefit. The problem with words and expressions is that they become habit, and they lose meaning until it's a very bad time.

I hoped someone would pick up on my reference! [they're my fave band (Y)]

Nope, doesn't mean that at all. I also don't go around skinny people and say, "that's so fattish" or go around tall people and say, "that's so shortish". I guess if I used the phrase "that's so gay" as a derogatory thing against gay people, I would see the correlation and contradiction you speak of. Truth is, if I wanted to say something negative against someone gay or anybody for that matter, I'd just say it. I wouldn't have to veil it with a slang phrase.

I agree with you. I use the same vocabulary when I'm with Gays, Black people and Japanese as I use when I'm with fellow Norwegians. I've never used any racial slur or any word for gay man as an insult. Never. Why should people talk differently to people only because of sexuality or skin colour? I don't see why people should stop using gay only when they are around gays.
It is about maturity and respect for a group, not about trying to sound nice when you are around a group!

In some parts of the US, straight is used as slang to mean ok, dull, not something to get excited about.

I haven't heard people say "that's gay" in a very long time. It may just be that since I'm in college now, I'm around a more "mature" (hopefully) crowd. Saying "that's gay" seems like a really 90s thing to me. I wasn't aware people actually still said that.

Anywhoo, people are saying that words change over time, and that's true. As pointed out earlier, idiot and dumb no longer mean the same thing. I would venture to say that the same can be true for gay. While gay is still used to refer to homosexuals, people are not referring to homosexuals when they say something is gay.In certain contexts, the word isn't being used as that specific meaning. The same can be said for the expression "oh my God." When people utter that, rolling their eyes at an annoyance, I doubt the majority are calling on the "Holy Father" to do something about the idiot in line in front of them at McDonalds, taking 5 minutes to order a $1 sweet tea. For a while, it was the "in" thing to do to take an offensive word/phrase and give it a new meaning to take the power away from it, ie take the bite out of the definition. When someone is using "gay" in a derogative manner (which I -firmly- believe isn't being done in this case), they do it to get a reaction. Many parents/schools are doing this with children and cursing. Don't react like they want you to and it no longer gives them their jollies.

Ultimately, for me, it comes down to picking and choosing your battles. I'm not gay, but I have two really close gay friends. One of them did, for a while and in the 90s, use gay to mean bad/stupid/whatever not including homosexual. I would think it's much more desirable to have people saying "that's so gay" as opposed to "you're a f-ing faggot" and punching you in the face. It may be annoying, but I think it's the lesser of several evils.

EDIT: One last point I forgot. People talk differently to different people. Generally, you don't act the same way around your parents as you do with your friends. You'd act and speak differently at the movies than you would at a restaurant. Heck, you'd speak differently at Olive Garden as opposed to some fancy black tie restaurant. I don't see that as a problem at all, or even as something to scold someone about. Even as far as race goes. You might use different slang with different people. Even in one race. I was talking to my friend once and she referred to attractive boys as "doves." We're both black, but grew up in different parts of Chicago. I had no idea what she was talking about until I thought back to what the conversation was about. Slang varies very much even in city. My point is that it's not unreasonable to talk differently to different people.

Same reason I don't go up to fugly people and tell them they're unattractive. Same reason I don't always tell people when their breath stinks or when they have a booger up their nose. Same reason I don't go up to people and tell them I hate their cheap, uncoordinated outfit or their tacky, unflattering haircut. Not blasting them in their face is a form of respect, IMO. I could be bogus and blast them to their face, or I could exercise some tact and keep my unwanted opinions to myself.

Main reason this debate caught my attention is because of the whole freedom of speech angle. I see too many people cursing politcal correctness and arguing how people are too sensitive and need to stop getting bent out of shape over words. We have the right to say what we like regardless of who doesn't like it. But then when an issue, such as homosexuality, hits close to home for certain people, then they want to get all pious and tell you how immature you are, blah blah blah.

A few of the people who take offense at those who loosely describe something as "gay", "lame", or "retarded", also want to know why it's wrong for non-blacks to use the word "nigger". They also probably have uttered the words, "he/she/that's so ghetto" before w/o thinking twice.

If you're gonna be a saint, then be one across the board.

I agree with DarkestBlu:



And there's so much more that can be added to that.

Why do people see something amazing and scream "Holy Sh/t"?
Why do people say "Oh my God" during sex?
Why would someone call you a motherf>>>> when you've never in your life slept with your own mother?

The list goes on and on.

People may talk differently around different people, darkestblu, you're right, but sometimes, a spur to change is in order.

It's not even, "That's so gay!" It's also, "Don't be a fag!" There are lots of terms that people don't find wrong or offensive until you say it to the wrong person. I personally don't like these terms, and while I'm glad that chynablu has the dignity to change her vocabulary around different people, but even she acknowledges the power of words. Nobody really knows how insensitive a word is until way later.

What I really see among the defenders here is a sort of laziness. They say it because other people say it; it's okay because a lot of people say it; it's not wrong because it's not meant in a literally "gay" sense. Language changes naturally, yes, but the meaning can be changed. Sometimes a group of people get together and they make a big movement to change the meaning of a word, or use a different word. Think 'Ms.' It's not too hard to find synonyms for stupid.

I totally agree. But I think people would actually have to care in the first place to make an effort to stop using a certain word. And if people don't see where they are doing anything wrong, they won't stop. Offending someone isn't a good enough reason for some people because there's no end to what may offend someone.




What do you mean by that?

Its a word. I don't find it offensive. I have nothing against homosexuals (my sister is a lesbian, I myself am bisexual). I use "gay" all the time. As in, "thats so gay". It doesn't mean that it is homosexual, it means that it is stupid. There are plenty of words, slang and otherwise, with multiple meanings.

And I hate political correctness. Its stupid and dishonest.

Except the meaning of "gay" used in these derogatory contexts hasn't shifted. It takes its negative force from gay = homosexual = wrong. Even if the people here who use the term trendily* don't harbor any scorn for homosexuals, they are fostering an atmosphere of scorn.

*though, as DarkestBlu notes, the phrase feels outdated to me

Or perhaps its just the opposite effect. Perhaps when used so casually, the word looses its negative power.

Sort of the way some of the african-american community has taken the word "nigger" and use is as a term of endearment.

Words only have the power and meaning we give them. ANY word can be an insult.

You're a bit turned around. Unlike the racist slur, "gay" used to refer to a person's sexuality isn't negative. Using it as a derisive term makes it negative.

'Ms.' originated in the 1970 as a marital-neutral honorific. Feminists were tired of being defined by their marital status (their relation to men), and popularized the use of 'Ms.' It is said that Malcolm X stopped calling himself black because of the negative connotations that go with the word black; now African-American is an accepted term.


Political correctness gets a bad rap. Your political correctness is perpetrated by senseless and non-seeing bureaucracy who thinks that the easiest way to not offend people is by using a million different racial terms. My political correctness is asking a person if what they prefer to be racially/honorifically/gender-wise called. I don't even call it political correctness; I call it "sensitivity." A person is being "politically correct" if they want manholes to be called personholes. A person is being sensitive if they don't call every Hispanic "Mexican."


Yeah, right. That actually screams double standard and most African-American people can't defend it either. Any Black person can use it derisively or endearingly, but the second a White person (no matter how much said White person identifies and supports the Black community) says it, the Black Community is up in arms. No matter how much Black people spout that belief out, that it's a term of endearment, a lot of them will still get touchy if a White person says it "endearingly."


Thank you.



You're gorgeous!

Not so much. If words really had "the power and meaning we give them," than nobody would understand anybody. Words have denotations and they have connotations which are shaped by the media, the stereotypes, our family, friends, and systems. You can say that a gay person doesn't have to read that gay=bad (even thought that's how it's used), but they're still going to note that everywhere they turn that's in the vernacular. And I don't think you know what that does to self-worth. I usually don't like to say Black Civil Rights=Gay Civil Rights, but I really recommend you read The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison on what media and societal messages do to people.

I'm not gay and I don't find it offensive, but I do think it's in poor taste. But so is any other name-calling, really. I've blurted it out a few times, but felt silly, and choose not to say it. Even if I did continue to say it, I wouldn't intentionally do so around homosexuals. The word usage has branched out to mean "stupid" or "lame", but is also still used to describe things as somehow symbolizing or appealing to homosexuality. The arguement that it just means "stupid" is invalid. I don't believe I should have to alter every little thing I say to not offend people, but that's just trying to offend someone.

Calling every hispanic a mexican is plain ignorance. A failure to realize that there are a lot of other hispanic populated, spanish speaking countries in south and central america.

Other than that, you seem to be agreeing with my view on political correctness.




Gotta love sarcasm.




Oh, I know I am. A pretty face with an absolutely breathtaking mind.



You have completely misunderstood my point (ironically enough, given that this discussion is about semantics.)


My point, was that you can use any word as a weapon. You can use buttercup as an insult! So it is pointless to be offended by words themselves, it only matters what context they are used in and the tone. I don't have anything against words that are generally considered obscene, all that matters is how they are used and to what they are directed.




You don't know about my life, so do not make blanket statements about it. I know plenty about the world around me and what "media and societal messages" can do to people.

Then why do you think that using "gay" as a derogatory term is okay? If society uses "gay" to equal homosexuality as well as stupid/bad, you don't think that speaks for something? And while a gay, out-of-the-closet person may take little offense with the word, what about a middle/high-schooler whose sexuality is nebulous? Do you think that they'll be able to affirm their sexuality with friends who constantly say, "That's so gay!" They might, but it's difficult.

In The Bluest Eye, Pecola is confronted with messages that White is Good, Pale is Good, Dark is Bad, Dark is Ugly. Sure, Society didn't mean to push a girl to insanity with its words and messages, but it did (not to say that this would happen to a gay person, but still words=>affect). Connotations do things.

And I wasn't being sarcastic that time, I was being sincere.

Okay, I don't think using gay as a derogatory term is okay, in fact it's pretty unnerving. That said, it's mainly kids being stupid. I mean, mostly pre-teens or those who seriously need to grow up and probably think snot is funny do it.
My ex-best friend used to do it all the time (this isn't why she's my ex-best friend, for the record) and it really used to tick me off (given that she was rather homophobic and I'm likely to campaign for gay rights, this wasn't a surprise) but she wasn't doing it to offend gay people at all, it was more of a 'Ooooh, here's a funny word'.
It's like guys when they say 'dude, you're such a chick', they're not misogynistic, but it's just stupid.

I can only speak for myself, but whenever I've said something is "gay", it didn't necessarily mean stupid or bad.


For example, one of my favorite R&B singers, Ne-yo, has a way of posing in pictures that makes me (and a whole bunch of other people who frequent a particular gossip site) remark on how "gay" he looks. This site has come up with quite a few synonyms, such as "tang" and "zesty". It's funny as hell but no one is saying "tang" or "zesty" or "that's so gay" or "he looks gay" as a stupid/bad thing. Ne-yo simply reminds us of some of the flamboyant, gay people we've seen. Reason it's funny is because I think any man being flamboyant or trying to mimic a woman's behavior is funny and very freakish/creepy. That's a personal thing and no one can tell me or anyone else what type of sense of humor to have.

i think it depends on how you use it...i think it's somewhat related to how people use the words 'nigga' or 'bicht', as a term of endearment, i think it could be a good thing, like reclaiming the word and turning a negative into a positive, if used in a negative manner...i dunno....i'm guilty of it, but i never use it to be homophobic or even to refer to homosexuality-to me in this 'age' lol i guess, it seems to have a new meaning...

although ultimatly it does relate to homosexuality....hmn...

Precisely! I think that as long as you speak the same way to everyone, what you say doesn't matter (you know what im getting at). I swear using the same words in front of everyone regardles of upbringing or age. Concentration might not be the same, but vernacular is. (That is to say I won't say F*** in front of my gramma nearly as often as I would in front of my freinds, but both will have heard it) Likewise, on the few occasions I use gay to describe something, audience does not matter, if they're straight I'll say gay, if tis mixed, I'll use it and if its jsut me and one gay freind, still will use it.

So you're completely right! No one should alter their words based on race or sexual orientation, and there is no reason to stop using the word around gays, so why do people do it? Referrign to stopping, not having started in the first place.
_______________________________________________________________________
Also, a bunch of people are comparing overuse of word "gay" to overuse of word "n*gger." I think that that's not a good comparison. For one, race protests were much better organized, you haven't seen anything on the scale of the March on Washington from the gays (yet) now have you? Since the quiet corrosive influence isn't countered by anything its almost inevitable that misunderstanding arises, and speech changes with it. So, pardon if this sounds callous, until they organize and get into public schools (in class youre admonished for using racial slurs, and youre not admonished for using retard, but its brought up on its won to not be used) people are sorta asking to be vernacularized.

Also, n*gger is worse than "gay" because there are so many synonyms for a person of African descent, but if you use the thesaurus on dictionary.com the number of synonyms for "homosexual" is... 3. Homophile, lesbian and gay. It was a lexicological shot in the dark which one would be picked, but to describe black people there are a huge number of options all of which ahve their own connotation brought about by some 400 years of controversy. None of the synonyms for homosexual have a real connotation. Heck I didn't even know what homophile meant before that.

I don't generally think it is ok to use anything as a derogatory term. I think that people should be able to speak how they want to. It is one thing for someone to be downright racist/sexist/homophobic and offend people. Thats understandable. But if you get so worked up over someone saying that the grade they got on their english test is "gay", I suggest you reanalyze your priorities.

Which is pretty much sums up my point about people just acting like 12-year-old (no offence, kids) idiots and assigning sexual preferences to inanimate objects and concepts.

I don't think I need to reanalyze my priorities. If I were to troll a forum screaming, "Don't use gay like that!" maybe then. What I'm trying to do is get people to realize the connotations of the word and what it does, and encourage them to use a synonym. But then again, most times when people say reanalyze my priorties, I usually don't think I need to.

And so I guess you think you're pretty cool because you don't do that? That makes you....what?....a got-it-going-on, 40-year-old female as opposed to me being an idiotic 12-year-old? Give me a break. If you'd like to get that anal, then your (no offense, kids) disclaimer is no better than what you are against.

Okay, a) I'm 19 years old, not 40 and b) I specified 'idiots', so if you classify yourself as an idiot, there's not much I can do about it and c) it's far from being 'pretty cool' about it, it's about not being offensive, politically and grammatically incorrect when you can get along perfectly well using some other adjective.

And in your post, you referred to Ne-yo as being described 'gay' because he's flamboyant and camp. Fine. Okay, I guess there's a stereotype attached with every group and homosexual people have the image of flamboyance tapered on their backs and being attracted to members of the same sex, fair enough. Now, maybe I'm missing something here, but please explain to me how exactly your grade is supposed to have flamboyance and sexual preference attached to it?