What a way for the new president-Elect to enter the white house. Under a cloud of suspicion and scandal.

"I had no contact with the governor what...."

That's the money quote from President-elect Obama in his first comment on the arrest of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich for trying to sell Obama's Senate seat. What was that "what" about to become before Obama stopped himself in mid-sentence in front of the cameras as Al Gore and Joe Biden sat by, stonefaced? The word "whatsoever" perhaps?

In which case, did the new president stop himself because he knew that to say "no contact whatsoever" was something that would be provably untrue? According to a now hastily retracted statement by aide David Axelrod, the president-elect had indeed "talked to the governor" about the vacancy.

The notion that a newly elected president who is also a sitting U.S. Senator would have no "contact" whatsoever with the governor charged with appointing his Senate successor is a fantasy.

Vice President-elect Joe Biden. Like Obama, Biden is a sitting Senator and must yield his seat. The Governor of Delaware, indeed, has already announced "her" choice to fill the Biden vacancy: none other than Biden's longtime Senate chief of staff Ted Kaufman. Does anyone seriously believe this appointment occurred with "no contact" whatsoever between Biden and his state's governor?

The stunning news of the Blagojevich arrest is a sudden critical moment for the Obama team. Remembering that cover-ups are usually the problems with presidents and their staffs, the arrest and filings by U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald opens a Pandora's Box of troubling questions for the newcomers in the White House.

Such as:

What did the President-elect and his incoming chief of staff Emanuel and advisor Axelrod (fellow Chicagoans both) know and when did they know it?

My question I would love to know is will they be truthful and come forward and tell the people of the US that they had a notion that some thing wasn't right but didn't want to say any thing.

Did a member of the Obama team "drop the dime" on the Governor with the feds?

Rumors right now that Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel may have been the one to drop the dime on Blago. If true, was this done to save Obama from further disgrace in not outing Blago?

When will the Obama team release all relevant information to the press? Information such as e-mails, phone records, appointment schedules.

Right now from the first quote at the top, Obama looks to be in denial about ever having contacted Blago on this, so we should be trusting that Obama will definitely hide any of these e-mails, records and such that could taint him further. After all, why should Obama be open with the American voters?


When will the president-elect publicly promise that he will not fire investigating U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald and Fitzgerald's team, as Obama will have the ability to do the moment he is sworn in?

If he fires Fitzgerald and replaces him, it will only cast further question on his guilt and involvement in all this.

So lets debate Obama's possible involvement in the expanding level of absolute corruption that is looking to involve any one in Ill.

All I can say for certain is that it is patently absurd to believe that the Illinois Governor had no contact with Barack Obama regarding possible candidates to replace him. I cannot comment on the level of communication, or if Obama knew that the seat was "for sale", that has not been alleged by the authorities at all, so I cannot state that Obama knew exactly what was going on as far as possible bribery, etc. I need to see some actual evidence regarding that, before I accuse the President-Elect of being involved in this mess. I am willing to state that there is simply no way in hell that Blagojevich and Obama didn't had ANY conversations regarding Obama's Senate seat. Whether that involved Obama offering up names as replacements, Blagojevich giving Obama names and asking what he thought about them all, I cannot say. But, this is CHICAGO politics, afterall. A while back, before the elections, I mentioned something about the corruptness of Chicago politics in the Election Thread, and this is merely the latest (it will no doubt be the last, either) example of that corruptness. Obama may be innocent of this particular crime, but, when it comes to the Chicago political machine, I don't believe there is an innocent Chicago politician, period. That includes Democrats and Republicans alike. They are ALL corrupt. I have family in the Chicago area, one of my uncles has personal knowledge of Chicago criminal syndicates (re:mafia). They exist, for real. It is not something that only existed in the 1920s and 30s, it exists, right now, in December 2008. Everybody in the Chicago political scene has their hands in some cookie jar or another. There is no such thing as an honest Chicago politician. Hell, you can't even say the only honest politician is a dead politician when Chicago is concerned, because the dead still somehow manage to cast votes in the Windy City...

I think it's clear what Obama should do. First of all, he should send out his surrogates to say that Patrick Fitzgerald is biased and is making a mountain out of a molehill. Then he should have other surrogates working out of the vice-president's office set up a public defense fund for Blagojevic. Then his Chief of Staff should invoke the Fifth Amendment to avoid testifying, and then only testify after receiving immunity. And then, after all is said and done, after Blagojevic is convicted, he should PARDON Blagojevic, and then pardon him AGAIN the day before he leaves office in 2017.

That's what he would do if he was George W. Bush, right?

Fitzgerald has already said that Obama had nothing to do with the investigation, but it's interesting to watch the expected attempt to make it about Obama. Blagojevic is dirty.

Doc, of course it relates to Obama. It is his Senate seat in question, DUH. You may want to pretend that it will be a GOP witchhunt, but, be honest for once. The Illinois Governor is arrested for committing crimes relating to the appointment of a replacement Senator to fill in for the President Elect of the United States. There is a known history of corruption within Chicago politics, of which, the President Elect is part. They share business partners in Tony Rezko. Two of Obama's top men are also part of the Chicago political machine, and would also have knowledge of the corruption in that city. Reiterating what I said from my first post, I don't know what Obama knew about all this, nor am I accusing him of being part of it, but, to sit there and claim that there shouldn't be anyone questioning Obama's knowledge, given everything else, is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it. You CANNOT pretend that the question of "how much did Obama know, and when did he know it" is not absolutely relevant to this. I don't know the answer to the question, nor will I pretend to...I do know however, that the question itself is quite valid.

Funny Doc how little you expect accountability out of obama, when you demand over the top accountability out of bush. Shouldn't the level of accountability be the same for all presidents be the same? Or is it just because he's a democrate, we just give him an automatic pass and won't ask too many questions?

Now onto the whole part of he had nothing to do with the investigation out of Fitzgerald.



Now as a citizen of this nation, I demand accountability when there looks to be corruption from those who will be making life and death decisions in this nation!

If that quote is true, then it implies certain things that I am not comfortable with. The only way Blagojevich would know for certain that the only thing the Obama camp was willing to give him is appreciation, is if Blagojevich and the Obama camp discussed the matter, specifically, what would Obama give him to appoint her. I give credit to Obama for the quote implying he refused to bribe Blagojevich, but at the same time, it renders any comments from Obama that imply he had no contact about the matter with the Governor completely moot. In order for Blagojevich to have been caught on tape saying that, there must have been a previous conversation between Blagojevich and Obama relating to what would Obama give him to appoint "Candidate 1", otherwise Blagojevich wouldn't know that Obama was unwilling to wheel and deal. Obama cannot deny conversations occurred. He comes out looking better as a result of this quote, but, he cannot deny the conversations ever happened. That raises a new question though...if you are the incoming President of the United States, and you have first hand knowledge of corruption within the highest levels of your homestate, as Obama clearly did by Blagojevich's quote, why wouldn't you immediately seek out the investigators to help out? That does concern me a little. It appears Obama knew about the corruption at the Governor level in Illinois, but did nothing about it.

As I bolded in the first post,
1. It shows obama with that tape knew about the corruption and denied it.

2. That obama's chef a staff very likely did drop the dime to save obama from further disgrace, that raises the question as to why obama didn't just come forward him self.

3. That obama should have the proof about the conversations and he should give them up.

4. He acts in any way against Fitz, this will only show even worse on him and his staff.

Plenty of speculation so let me join in, how do you know that it wasn't the Obama team that spill the beans? There is an investigation going on, lets allow Fitz to do his job and when the time comes we will all know the whole story. I know you want Obama's ass on a plate, and while you may like your meat rear, I like mine well done!

UrisStar, Blagojevich has been under investigation for criminal wrongdoing for a few years now, well before Obama was elected President. The Feds had been on to Blagojevich and gathering evidence for far longer, it would have been impossible for Obama to spill the beans, they were spilled a long time ago. What I meant by my previous post was that Obama should have added what he knew to the ongoing investigation, not create a new one.

They did not get him for whatever it was they have been investigating him for all those years, they got him because of information they got in November that tipped them off that he may be trying to sell Obama's old job.

You guys watch to much TV, no one knows what Obama told the Feds or did not tell the Feds, the Feds don't play their cards in public until they have too. Stop demanding things that may put the investigation in jeopardy, as much as some don't care for Obama, wishing he is dirty doesn't make him so. Obama is so much smarter than some give him credit. I guess the next thing you guys are going to want him to do is to part the Red Sea and when he can't then we will have a bunch of strange Americans jumping up and down screaming, I told you so!

It's hard to count how many ways that is just wrong. First of all, it's not Obama's seat anymore. He resigned it. That's the only reason that Blagojevic has any say in the matter. The constitution says that it belongs to Blagojevic's to give to whomever he wants, although he can't trade it for a bribe. Obama has no say in the matter other than to suggest somebody for the job, which according to the quote below, he did and he was rebuffed.



I think that alone should put an end to this "further disgrace himself [Obama]" talk, shouldn't it? Blagojevic hints to an Obama advisor (probably Plouffe) that he expects some kind of quid pro quo, and Plouffe says screw it all and walks away. That's the way it should be done.

I particularly like this:

I can see Nick now with his hand to his forehead, collapsing onto the fainting couch! Obviously this is meant in jest.

And it does seem like I'm changing the subject, perhaps, to bring this up, but we are still expecting very soon now a flurry of self-serving pardons from George W. Bush for certain fine-feathered friends of his. It makes a startling contrast to Nick's TEH DEMANDS!1 But I probably won't start a thread about that tragedy because I'm just so depressed and used to their corruption by now that I can't react anymore. It's not like there's a double standard for Democrats and Republicans. It's like there is NO standard every applied to anything the Bush administration has done, from torture to war to ignoring congressional subpoenas to destroying evidence to horse-trading US attorney seats (they could teach Blagojevic a few lessons about that.) A full list of the crimes these people are guilty of is beyond my capabilites. We are all so used to it that we don't react anymore.

Read closer what I wrote uris, about "obama's chef a staff very likely did drop the dime to save obama from further disgrace"!

And on this. Lets see.

Obama is the smartest guy on the planet.

But Obama never heard any raciest comments by his reverend.
But Obama didn't know any thing about involvement with with Rezko.
But Obama didn't know know any thing about Blagojevich.

Seems obama conveniently never hears or knows any thing.

Hey Doc, I've been on my fainting couch for almost eight years now and it did not change the fact that Bush is still corrupt even now. Every time I try to get off of it Bush does something else corrupt, but come January 20th, or is it the 21st? What ever day it is I am burning that couch and throwing a party. Obama is not even in office yet and already they are afraid he will smoke in the White House, I love my fellow Americans as they are so in touch.

Give it a rest Amish Nick, the election is over, Obama took the prize already, none of your whining will change the facts.:howdy:

I know it's tangential and probably a horrible indictment against my own character, but the word "Taint" is in the title of this thread.

*sheepish giggle*

No it doesn't doc. As if obama did know ahead of time that he was wanting a bribe for appointing some one to this seat, then obama and his staff is required to come forward with this information! Obama didn't, infact he started of by lieing to the American people saying that he had no contact, or involvement in his replacment.

Your good at that doc, as read your first post in this thread. An attempt to switch the topic off of Blagojevic and obama's involvement/knowledge and onto Bush. And again in this second post, to once again switch the topic too Bush once more. You'Ve done this many times in the past, and you continue to do it here.

I don't have to give it a rest uris. As a citizen, I have a right to question our leaders, their actions and associates.

Get ready for the next 4 years. :howdy:

I don't plan to go anywhere, and if Obama turn out to be Bush, we have a date.

I will bring the popcorn.:popcorn:

Well after today and Jess Jackson Jr. denial about a bribe for that seat, I've read the whole indictment of Fitz's.

One part looks very damning to him.



Jess Jackson Jr. (Dem) is (Senate Candidate 5)

If Jackson committed a crime he is going down, I did not know he had that kind of money to pay for a job he actually have to do work at. He should have just let his money work for him another way if in fact he is guilty.

If Obama had no ties, no personal interest in who replaced him, then why would Governor Blagojevich bother communicating with him at all? Sorry Doc, but that is one of the weakest excuses I have ever read. Of course Obama had a personal interest in who replaced him, even if "technically" he resigned the seat. You knew exactly what I was talking about, but chose to parse it down so that it suited you. Obama still had an interest in it, what outgoing Senator wouldn't be curious about who the Governor would select as his or her replacement?

That depends. If Blagojevic only hints at it (the way people generally do when hitting up somebody for a bribe) then there's nothing to report to anybody. And, to be serious here, there is almost certainly a certain amount of horse-trading that can take place in these situations, legally, that doesn't rise to the level of bribery, but does rise to the level of being such an a**hole that Obama's people just decided it wasn't worth finding out what would satisfy Blagojevic.

I'm impressed Doc, very logical and I can't argue with it in any shape or form. Your right.

But onto more interesting things happening in this that just raises more questions.

Right now I do believe when Obama stood before the mic today and he denied ever having spoken to the governor on the subject. But note, he doesn't say that he knows those in his staff didn't. In fact this is what he said.

"confident that no representatives of mine would have any part of any deals related to this seat".

Another words, they have talked to Blagojevic. And we know they did as he says he will release transcripts some time soon about it. But the question is, to what level and how much did they know about the governor wanting a bribe. And did they come forward about it. And to who. Certainly to Obama as they work for him, so that means that even thou Obama didn't talk directly to Blago, he certainly should have known, and may have been behind the scene directing the talks.

Now onto more interesting things about all this. Why is Obama's staff removing any reference to Blagojevic from Obama's transition web site's main page? www.Change.gov ? If he's got nothing to worry about, then why do this? Why not just address the questions openly and honestly if there is truly nothing more to this?



A sample of some of the questions removed;

Well the news today continues to grow on all of this. From the AP today



Well, so much for transparency. FaLaLaLa

Now onto other details

Chicago News reported that there were multiple conversations between Obama Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel, and Governor Blagojevich and his chief of staff. These conversations occurred after Obama named Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff, and likely were recorded.

A "reliable source" familiar with the FBI's investigation stated that Emanuel provided Blagojevich with a "list of names acceptable to" Obama.

Obama again denied on Thursday that anyone representing him participated in any negotiations regarding the Senate seat, saying, "I am confident that no representative of mine would have any part of any deals related to this seat."

If the names were "acceptable" to Obama," then he and Emanuel had discussions before Emanuel went to the meetings with Blagojevich, and Obama knew about any talks going on before hand and was involved.


And onto food for thought, oh this is going to be juicy.

If and it looks like he did, Emanuel was the one who dropped the dime on Blagojevich, Blagojevich stands to lose every thing thanks to Emanuel and will not be happy.

He will lose his cushy job, his cash, and his freedom. Now once the Feds get him behind bars and starts talking to him, one of the first things they will do is offer him a deal. He talks about other corrupt dealings, and other corrupt politicians, and they will make a deal of a shorter prison term. Far less then the 30 years they are looking at.

Blagojevich will likely be singing like a canary for a better deal and any one who ever dealt with him will be running scared.

But of most Blagojevich will be pissed at Obama and Emanueal for outing him. If he knows any wrong doing about ether, he will sing like no one has sung before. Getting even for what has happened now, and by the looks of it, he has nothing to lose and doesn't care about the damage done to his party in doing it as he is refusing to step down now and causing even more grief for Dems.

And how scary is all this for Obama and Dems. Rezko was Blagojevich's bag man. Rezko was also one of Obama's biggest campaign cash go getters when he ran for his senate seat. And Obama and Blagojevich for a long time held weekly meetings and discussed much during those times.

Blagojevich is a nightmare for Dems and he won't be going away for months!

Amazing!!! This country is knocking on death's door and you are finding joy in all this? What will it take before ALL Americans realize that it don't matter if it is the Dems or the Retugs that bring this country down, we are all going down with it. While all this bring you such joy I hope you have a lifeline/a plan B.

Yes, you said this is your country and you are a citizen with rights, don't misuse/misunderstand them or underestimate the seriousness of the situation, for as America prey upon itself, I have duel citizenship. You guys go ahead and eat eachother up, I will read all about it elsewhere as I am not taking that fool trip with anyone be they Dems or Repugs because I have come to realize that America/Americans are mess up!.? Enjoy!:nana:

Now uris, I've mentioned before about how it belittles you to act like that and show no respect. Keep in mind, I too have been hanging out on the Dims boards and can more then keep up with dimocRats abilities to insult others needlessly. Show respect to others when you would like to be shown respect your self. I in no where in this thread before have insulted others, why do you feel the need to do it to others?

Now onto the daily poop of the growing scandal that threatens to take down all the corrupt cronies!

President-elect Barack Obama is refusing to answer any questions about the internal review he has ordered into Blagojevich's efforts to sell his senate seat, saying he will do so when the examination is finished.

Again, so much for Obama's promise of transparency, openness.

Obama's staff has declined to respond to even basic questions, like who is conducting the probe, how long it will take, what issues are being explored and whether they are working with federal investigators.

The Obama transition team's refusal to talk has contributed to a maelstrom around Obama's incoming White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel. This is getting ugly, Obama has been caught left and right lying from the start and its only causing more grief for him as he prepares to take the oath of office.


**Edited to add**