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Mad Poster
#26 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 1:07 PM
Personally, I think atheism is good because it demonstrates that people can be good and do good deeds toward one another without ulterior motives. They do it out their own goodwill, for the sake of helping one another sincerely, not out of fear of eternal damnation. Maybe that's what religion should have about been in the first place, but now it seems it's just a struggle of whose religion is better, god more powerful, and people just hate each other.
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Field Researcher
#27 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 1:14 PM
Atheism or other religions isn't bad, whether you're religious or not. The main thing is not the religions, but your lifestyle (does this word fit here?), morality norms, values. As a Catholic, I believe in one single God, but I know that my God is gracious and loves every human. And I believe that if you don't believe in anything, if you do all the worst sins and so on, but when you face your death you regret for what you were doing or weren't doing, if you believe in, you will be forgiven. Pleading for grace and true regret could rescue all the people.
Scholar
#28 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 2:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by BeechWell2
In an effort to maybe inspire a little debate I would like to add point
7. Do you think Pascals Wager offers a good rational for being religious? Does the idea hold any merit at all?
The philosopher and natural scientist Blaise Pascal argued that it is prudent to believe in (the Christian) god, because if you do, you either gain everything (heaven - if you are correct) or nothing if you are wrong; whereas if you don't believe, you gain nothing (if there is indeed no god) or lose everything (go to hell). So believing in god is always a better wager.


As already mentioned, Pascal's Wager can actually be used either way, since the God in the wager is, by the Wager's requirement, an unknown.

The easy response is the notion of the "irritable God"--say, a God who looks less favorably upon 'incorrect believers' than nonbelievers (say, God is only mildly irritated by Atheists, but absolutely hates people who believe in another God). Thus, atheism becomes the only safe answer.

"We're on sob day two of Operation Weeping-Bald-Eagle-Liberty-Never-Forget-Freedom-Watch sniff no word yet sob on our missing patriot Glenn Beck sob as alleged-President Hussein Obama shows his explicit support sniff for his fellow communists by ruling out the nuclear option."
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#29 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 5:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Gemmareno
Oh wow, you just made me laugh out loud at work! XD Bad simsample!

And of course not every Christian is like this - but some Christians antagonise themselves by trying to push their beliefs under your nose.

Yes, I have nothing against people of any particular religion or irreligion- it's just that this one lady sticks in my mind! Also, I used to live next door to a family of Jehova's witnesses who were the nicest people in the world. They never once brought up religion, but I was curious and asked, and got a whole load of books and stuff to read from them. We used to debate religion over the garden fence! When I moved house to a neighbouring town, I had some Jehova's witnesses call by, spreading the word so to speak. I engaged them in conversation and after about three minutes they began backing off, and when I asked what was the matter they replied 'We just realised, you must be the atheist who used to live next to Jim and Betty... We have to go now!' So I guess my reputation as a keen conversant on all religious topics is reknowned far and wide!

Quote: Originally posted by Doddibot
But realistically, it's entirely possible that the Hindus are right and the Christians are wrong. Or that the Ancient Romans were right, and everyone else wrong. Or that a shy god, who never started a religion or revealed himself, exists and so all religions are wrong.

Imagine the horror, after living all your life as a devout Christian, only to be met at the pearly gates by Mohammed.
Instructor
#30 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 6:32 PM
1. Is there a supreme being?
No, at least that's what I think. I don't claim to be the helder of the Universal Truth
2. Why is your (if you have one) religion the right one?
I'm an atheist, but I don't think that a particular religion or lack of is necessarly right or wrong. To each their own, as long as they don't harass people who don't agree with them.
3. Is atheism wrong?
Of course it isn't.
4.Are atheists at a disadvantage in today's theistic world?
Well, some people will think less of you if you tell them you're an atheist, I know becuase I had it happen to me. It's a very rare case, though, and in occasions where one's religion isn't brought up nobody can tell you're an atheist.
5. Is it okay for atheists to try to spread their views?
If you mean go around and hand out leaflets at stations or ring at people's homes on sunday morning to try to convert them, that's wrong. Atheist don't do it, though. If talking to someone about one's religious views an atheist happens to explain why they believe so and so, I think it's perfectly okay.
6Is religion (in general) becoming more powerful or fading out?
Depends on the context. In politics, especially here in Italy, religion is going strong. In terms of how people behave in their everyday life, I see often that people don't do what they say others should, whis is very hypocritical of them.
Instructor
#31 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 6:55 PM
1. Is there a supreme being?
No.

2. Why is your (if you have one) religion the right one?
Cause I'm The eqivelent of Jesus in my relgion

3. Is atheism wrong?
Nah

4. Are atheists at a disadvantage in today's theistic world?
.. No TBH I think most people are athiest that I know

5. Is it okay for atheists to try to spread their views?
Sure

6. Is religion (in general) becoming more powerful or fading out?
Fading
Scholar
#32 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 10:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PuX- 80's
6. Is religion (in general) becoming more powerful or fading out?
One bonding point would be religon.
The other would be race.
Both religon and race make people easier to get along because, people of the same race and religon have the same morals.


I hope I'm understanding the bolded italised section incorrectly, because it made me quirk a brow as a rather untrue statement.

As to the question itself, personally I believe religion will always remain a constant.
#33 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:08 PM
Yet another atheist here. Born and raised as catholic though.
Top Secret Researcher
#34 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:13 PM
TRIriana, I'm not understanding what you said.

So long, my luckless romance
My back is turned on you
I should've known you'd bring me heartache
Almost lovers always do

Top Secret Researcher
#35 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:16 PM
Um, people of the same race or religion do not necessarily have the same morals, by any means. I think that's what she was saying.

#36 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:19 PM
1. Is there a supreme being?
Yes I think so.

2. Why is your (if you have one) religion the right one?
I cannot say my religion (Roman Catholic) is the right one. That simply isn't true. But I know it is the right one for ME.

3. Is atheism wrong?
No.
4. Are atheists at a disadvantage in today's theistic world?
In a way, I think they are. You don't have to be Christian or Muslim or wahtever but all those religions have a supereme being or god(s) and I know I go to my God for guidence. Atheists don't have a supereme being to talk to. On the other hand, I am talking more spiritually. Of course atheists live happy and good lives.

5. Is it okay for atheists to try to spread their views?
As others have mentioned, freedom of speech. If Christians, Muslims, Islams, and all the others religions can preach about there beliefs so can atheists.

Is religion (in general) becoming more powerful or fading out?
I really don't know.

:/
Top Secret Researcher
#37 Old 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:20 PM
Got it, Thank you Daisie :D

What I was trying to say was, people of the same race and/or religon are com-fert-able with the same race and/or religon because, they have a general understanding of what each other are like and where they came from.
Get it?

So long, my luckless romance
My back is turned on you
I should've known you'd bring me heartache
Almost lovers always do

Test Subject
Original Poster
#38 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 10:18 PM
First of all, someone said why I chose not to put agnostic as a choice. Agnosticism is basically open to the idea of the opinion opposite yours because of your lack of knowledge. You can be an agnostic atheist and an agnostic theist. Agnostic is more of an adjective than a noun.

Also, I meant non-denominational as believing in a deity or deities, but you really don't have a specific religion. You know something is out there but you don't go to any church (or you may go to many churches), and you don't associate yourself with any specific religion.

Someone else mentioned that when a religious theist hears the words "I am an atheist," they see it as an attack on their beliefs. Why would this be? If their religion is so strong to them, why cling to it like that and be so harsh to someone that doesn't believe in a deity? Is that religion and their faith so weak that they are that paranoid?

Referring to BeechWell2's answer to number one, check out Austin's article on why he became an atheist. The link to the site is on my first post, and you have to search a little for the article.

Also, something worth mentioning, I am from America. Some of the things I said in my first post I may be referring to America. If you live in a place that is different than the religious climate of America, please say so. Perhaps I assume too much.

On Pascal's Wager, I agree with Doddibot. There are so many religions, what if one is right and all the others are wrong? Pascal's Wager holds no merit.

"It's interesting how some of you view Christianity as if we're all bad people who think everyone is going to hell. Stop stereotyping because not every Christian is like that." -Dreamydre15

It's the religious fanatics that are being talked about here. First of all, the religious fanatics are the ones that stick out in people's minds because they are so negative and closed-minded. One does not have to be Christian to be a religious fanatic, however. There can be fanatics from any religion. Stop thinking that Christianity is the only religion.

"If atheists took people aside in the street and tried to defame God, there would be an uproar." -Gemmareno

This is an example of atheists being at a disadvantage. Atheists really are not free to spread their views in many places. I think that in Muslim countries, spreading non-theistic views is illegal. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Many people are saying that they don't know if their religion is the right one, but it's right for them. How do you know? Have you participated in every religion and ceremony that religion has to offer? Is there a specific set of values that your religion preaches that differs from another religion's values that you disagree with? Or is it simply because it's what you've always done and now it's force of habit?

Also, people are saying that it's okay for atheists to spread their veiws, and yet they face persecution and hatred from many people when they do. Maybe you're just saying it's okay for them to spread thier veiws because you know it's the right answer. But in reality you really don't believe what you said.

Do you think that is okay for atheists to participating in religious holidays and ceremonies? What would you think of an atheist that participates in Christmas and Hanukkah for example. Or an atheist that gets married in a church by a minister.

Are children of atheists at an advantage or disadvantage in a religious society?
Forum Resident
#39 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 10:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PuX- 80's
Got it, Thank you Daisie :D

What I was trying to say was, people of the same race and/or religon are com-fert-able with the same race and/or religon because, they have a general understanding of what each other are like and where they came from.
Get it?
You're saying a black American, a black Kenyan, a black Scot (Demoman?!) and a black Japanese will have a general understanding of eachother... because they're all black?
You realise it's absurd, right?
Mad Poster
#40 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 10:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Nineteen
It's the religious fanatics that are being talked about here. First of all, the religious fanatics are the ones that stick out in people's minds because they are so negative and closed-minded. One does not have to be Christian to be a religious fanatic, however. There can be fanatics from any religion. Stop thinking that Christianity is the only religion.

I don't THINK that Christianity is the only religion and I was referring to all the stereotypes people were posting about Christians. But moving on...

Quote: Originally posted by Nineteen
Also, people are saying that it's okay for atheists to spread their views, and yet they face persecution and hatred from many people when they do. Maybe you're just saying it's okay for them to spread their views because you know it's the right answer. But in reality you really don't believe what you said.

Maybe in reality some people do believe that Athiests are free to spread their views and beliefs; maybe their is no right or wrong answer when it comes to a religion or non-religion. But just because I believe that Athiests are free to spread their views doesn't mean the majority of other people do and you can only blame our founding fathers for that. Just because I believe that they can spread their views doesn't mean I approve of Atheism; but who am I to tell someone that their beliefs are wrong? What makes any religion or non-religion wrong?
Quote: Originally posted by Nineteen
Do you think that is okay for atheists to participating in religious holidays and ceremonies? What would you think of an atheist that participates in Christmas and Hanukkah for example. Or an atheist that gets married in a church by a minister.

Personally....I could care less. I mean I wouldn't really understand it seeing that they don't believe in the religion; but it's not going to be the end of the world.

"Going to the chapel of Love"

the girls club . statistics . yearbook .
Forum Resident
#41 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:00 PM
I'll just answer this one. \

1. Is there a supreme being?

Probably not, as the word being is usually used. But I do believe in God. The problem is in the word being, which must be limited by our conceptions. I do not believe that there is a consciousness LIKE OURS out there that worries about people and loves people and hates other people and wants to punish some people because they are bad. I don't know for sure, but it sounds unlikely.

I realize that is how most of the Bible is written, with God portrayed, from chapter to chapter, as either a loving, nurturing father or an immovable tyrant. But being human, our ability to conceive something as alien as a God limits us to having to resort to metaphorical models, and that is what the God of the Bible is -- a metaphorical way of expressing something that is otherwise impossible to communicate in words.

So, no being. But the evidence is that there is something outside ourselves, and whatever it is, it's very complicated.
Lab Assistant
#42 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:21 PM
Why are there always polls in threads like this? Really.

Okay then, here we go...

1. Is there a supreme being?
Yes. Most religions at least have a god in some form... But only one of which I believe in.

2. Why is your religion the right one?
Christianity teaches you the basics to life, and teaches us how to love the right way - something we need more of in this world. You don't have to die for your sins because that's already been taken care of. Contrary to any misconceptions you may have, we're taught to love everyone. I also believe that Catholicism and Judaism are correct in what they believe - that there is a God, one God, who wants us to live our lives in peace and greet us at the gates of Heaven.

3. Is atheism wrong?
I believe that atheism is wrong, not atheists. I would elaborate, but for me, it's kind of difficult to explain clearly without sounding too 'harsh'.

4. Are atheists at a disadvantage in today's theistic world?
Again, it's really difficult for me to word this one out. I do believe that there are some disadvantages to being an atheist - without a God, some people have nobody to turn to. Because there is no special text or solid set of beliefs for atheism, it doesn't really explain some things that would be good to steer clear of that one may not know the risks of until after the fact.

5. Is it okay for atheists to try to spread their views?
It kind of depends on what you mean. There are many different ways to spread views, but when it comes to stuff like this, it just turns into an offensive hatefest. Discussing views isn't so bad, but trying to "convert" others into atheism isn't the brightest idea in my book. Trying to pull me away from God means trying to pull me away from my most personal relationship ever, and I'm pretty sure most religions that revolve around a 'supreme being' work that way.

6. Is religion (in general) becoming more powerful or fading out?
Honestly? I have no clue. Though, it amazes me how far people will go to try and disprove the existence of God. For some reason, I guess people are under the impression that we are all "enslaved" by some powerful despotic anomaly (which really isn't the case) and that all war stems from religion (which is probably thanks to various generalizations and misconceptions based upon the current war in Iraq). In addition, thanks to extremists popping up all over the media, it doesn't really help that Christians and related beliefs are now sometimes mistaken for a bunch of ultra-strict gaybashers and such.
Banned
#43 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Dr. BaconStein
2. Why is your religion the right one?
Christianity teaches you the basics to life, and teaches us how to love the right way - something we need more of in this world. Contrary to any misconceptions you may have, we're taught to love everyone. I also believe that Catholicism and Judaism are correct in what they believe - that there is a God, one God, who wants us to live our lives in peace and greet us at the gates of Heaven.

5. Is it okay for atheists to try to spread their views?
It kind of depends on what you mean. There are many different ways to spread views, but when it comes to stuff like this, it just turns into an offensive hatefest. Discussing views isn't so bad, but trying to "convert" others into atheism isn't the brightest idea in my book. Trying to pull me away from God means trying to pull me away from my most personal relationship ever, and I'm pretty sure most religions that revolve around a 'supreme being' work that way.


I mean no offense in anything I'm about to type.

In reply to your answer to 2. Christianity isn't the only religion that teaches those ideas, ALL religions do to some extent. Also, one doesn't need to be part of any religion to know how to "love the right way".

In reply to your answer to 5, in particular "Discussing views isn't so bad, but trying to "convert" others into atheism isn't the brightest idea in my book.". More often than not, Christians(and other religious folk) do this, and to me it's not a bright idea for anyone to try to "convert others into x religion". You may disagree with me but the sad fact is that it happens and comes from any and all religions.
Top Secret Researcher
#44 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Nineteen

Do you think that is okay for atheists to participating in religious holidays and ceremonies? What would you think of an atheist that participates in Christmas and Hanukkah for example. Or an atheist that gets married in a church by a minister.


Why not atheist are born into families and traditions of their country, changes are that they have religious friends or family members. I was raised as an atheist, not uncommon where I life, but we celebrated religious holidays like Christmas, Easter and so on because it's part of Belgian tradition (as a child I was only vaguely aware of the religious undertones of Christmas and Easter only meant the Easter bunny and chocolate eggs to me.). Also schools here tend to celebrate those holidays, although in recent years this has declined. For many people religious holidays don't have a religious meaning anymore, they became part of their heritage and tradition, not their religion. The same goes for marriage where I life, people marry before the church because of tradition and to appease religious family members. (An important note is that a priest can't legally marry two people where I life, that privilege is only bestowed on the schepenen (alderman, is the closest English translation) or mayor. So many people marry twice (before schepenen and afterwards before the church.). Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't respect tradition and for many of us tradition is rooted in religion.
Mad Poster
#45 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Safyre420
In reply to your answer to 2. Christianity isn't the only religion that teaches those ideas, ALL religions do to some extent. Also, one doesn't need to be part of any religion to know how to "love the right way".


I don't think Dr. Baconstein was trying to say that Christianity is the only religion to teach those ideas. He/She was just simply stating their beliefs.

"Going to the chapel of Love"

the girls club . statistics . yearbook .
Banned
#46 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:42 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Dreamydre15
I don't think Dr. Baconstein was trying to say that Christianity is the only religion to teach those ideas. He/She was just simply stating their beliefs.


They probably didn't, which is why I didn't mean any offense, but I felt that I needed to point out that other religions teach the same ideas.
Top Secret Researcher
#47 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:47 PM
Quote: Originally posted by The_French_Sim
You're saying a black American, a black Kenyan, a black Scot (Demoman?!) and a black Japanese will have a general understanding of eachother... because they're all black?
You realise it's absurd, right?

That's where your blind.
Do they all have the same religon? Race?
The answer to both questions, No.

Take your typical high school campus.
You have the Mexicans at one area, do they all know each other? No, but they have a mutual understanding. They get a jist of their backrounds.
You have the Preppy white girls and the gothic white girls, they will also have a general understanding.
My old biology buddy is rocker-ness and one of her friends is the 'hussie' type. I never thought they'd be friends, but they are. They understand each other.
Get it?

So long, my luckless romance
My back is turned on you
I should've known you'd bring me heartache
Almost lovers always do

Banned
#48 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PuX- 80's
That's where your blind.
Do they all have the same religon? Race?
The answer to both questions, No.

Take your typical high school campus.
You have the Mexicans at one area, do they all know each other? No, but they have a mutual understanding. They get a jist of their backrounds.
You have the Preppy white girls and the gothic white girls, they will also have a general understanding.
My old biology buddy is rocker-ness and one of her friends is the 'hussie' type. I never thought they'd be friends, but they are. They understand each other.
Get it?


So what you're saying is that because someone is in their "clique" they understand each other, and someone outside of their "clique" they won't understand them?
Forum Resident
#49 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PuX- 80's
That's where your blind.
Do they all have the same religon? Race?
The answer to both questions, No.
Did you mean "race" (ethnicity) or nationality? Because you know, all those black guys have the same ethnicity, they just have different nationalities and backgrounds.

Then again, even with the same ethnicity and the same nationality, the statement is silly, because many, many other factors have a significant influence on someone's mentality (I don't consider ethnicity has an effect on your mentality!)...
Top Secret Researcher
#50 Old 4th Dec 2008 at 11:57 PM
Re-read the last part.
Quote:
You have the Preppy white girls and the gothic white girls, they will also have a general understanding.
My old biology buddy is rocker-ness and one of her friends is the 'hussie' type. I never thought they'd be friends, but they are. They understand each other.


Generally [I believe that must be a keyword] they understand each other when they have race and religon in-common.

French Sim,
Take it this way,
If Africans came from Chocolate and White people came from marshmellows.
Would a marshmellow understand chocolate?
No. The marshmellow will never be chocolate, but it can learn from the chocolate.

So long, my luckless romance
My back is turned on you
I should've known you'd bring me heartache
Almost lovers always do

 
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