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Alchemist
#26 Old 25th Jun 2009 at 8:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SirVictory
Wrist-cutting is for lusers, but all they want is attention and maybe get onto an episod of Dr.Phil.


I cannot believe you just said this. I went through a terrible bout of self-harm, which I am still not recovered from, I still sometimes feel like I want to cut myself again. I have suffered from Depression for well over a year.
Anyone who self-harmed is NOT a loser, You cannot label people for this! You basically have no control and when you are so upset you just grab the thing closest to you and do it.
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Lab Assistant
#27 Old 25th Jun 2009 at 9:10 PM
I think a lot of people think of self harming (especially wrist cutting) as some kind of trend, because in the last 5 or so years it has become kind of like a trademark for emo music and lifestyle, right? And it's "fashionable" to be depressed, and therefore you have to cut yourself.
I mean come on, they even sell necklaces and stuff with bejeweled razorblades.

I'm not saying everyone cut themselves to be "in" or whatever, but I do think it has become somewhat trendy, which is sad, for the ones who really needs the help doesn't get enough attention.
I also can't help but feeling kind of annoyed about all this talk about cutting, it IS a problem of course, but if you go to a psychologist (sorry if that's the wrong word, heh) and tell him you have problems, but that you DON'T cut yourself - you automatically get put down on the list and you're not in need of acute help.
I've had some pretty serious problems with depressions, anxiety/panic attacks and psychoses but I've never cut myself and apparently they don't think I need much help.
Lab Assistant
#28 Old 25th Jun 2009 at 9:33 PM
I think its just theres a chance you will seriously hurt yourself or acidently kill yourself. Just as if you were suicidal then you would be thurther up their list. But then again there still isnt enough out there to help anyone wether they self harm or not. And i think its the people that need the help the most that find it hardest to ask for it.

Also yeh it is becoming fashionable. Which is sick really. But i still think those people who do it for attention or "fashion" still have a problem. There has to be somthing wrong, even if your not doing it because of depresion.

kustirider2 - Just ignore him, hes only said it to come in here and stir it up.

My name is Jill. But i am not a bean. Not a baked bean, not a lima bean not even a jelly bean . . . . . . . . Ok maybe a jelly bean.
Lab Assistant
#29 Old 7th Nov 2009 at 10:57 PM
I've come through some serous problems I've still not recovered compltely from, but sth. has always stopped me from self-harming. The worst selfharm I ever did was scratching my face and hands, when I was angry with myself for crying on public (I act strong and tough even if I feel ruined inside, Internet being the only place where I actually discuss my problems and feelings, because no-one sees me or knows me here). Once I even took a knife to cut myself, but then I thought - what would it change? It would only add to the pain and distruction I already feel, and make me ugly (and I'm always aware of my looks, no matter what happens).

However, I never judge those who do harm themselves, be it alcohol, drugs, cutting or other severe methods of harming. Even if these people are just plain attention seekers, would they attract attention to themselves in such a way, if they had no serious problems? No, they would probably do sth else to be noticed, than beating, scratching or cutting themselves and showing their scars. They might be in a serious trouble, even if they don't seem to be, at first sight. Probably, doing such things brings them sorta relief, but, in case some of you do it, just don't let it develop into a habit. Anyone can do it when in severe distress, but we all are able to put ourselves together after a moment of weakness (though sometimes it's hard, I know from my own experience).

You know, when I was down depresed, I decided to make a new rule for myself to live by, no matter if the others like it or not: "Love yourself and do best for yourself, and the world will fall in love with you too; if there are sb. who hate you, be sure they do it because of envy". This works much better than harming yourself physically or emotionally.
Field Researcher
#30 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 12:04 AM
I do. I judge people who do self-harm. I'm sick of all the whine ass little bitches. When you have to deal with a pathetic parent as I have your whole life you're understand why I'm sick of all the bullshit. For god's sake, my life is truly unbearable at times. And what pisses me off so badly is that the reason my life is in such a pathetic disarray is because of my mother and all her self pitying. My mother graduated college with as BA in sociology and english...she had all the honors and ribbons and everything. Top of her class. But do you think she used that to her advantage? Sure, she can study a book and pass a test, but she can't even clean her own house. 8 months after she graduated college she STILL had no job, and yuet she had 4 children at home to take care of--we didn't live with our father. So my older sister (by two years) got a babysitting job. She gave all her money to my mom. My sister was 12 years old and supporting the family but here was my mother, college education, full grown woman...and not doing a damn thing. She even wrote into our school "dear teacher, I cannot supply my children with the necessary items you've requested because I've been graduated for 8 months and still don't have a job and have been living off of my 12 year old daughter's baby sitting money." That's just SICK. She played on it, even! As if she were proud! "here, let me tell the whole world about how I'm not even human!" We had to stand in line at the food pantry and get bagged rice and beans in a coffee can. We had to pick through the garbage in public places to get cans and bottles for my mother to return so we could have bread. I got called a garbage picker until I graduated from high school. Kids on the bus would tell me I smelled bad, because they saw me picking through the trash to get bottles, and they sprayed me with some cheap perfume and stick gum in my hair. And then when my mother finally did get a job, she ended up getting canned because she's entirely incompetent and then decided that her children, even after putting them through all this hell to support her ass, weren't good enough and reason enough to keep on going. So she tried to kill herself. She was in the hospital 70 miles away from home and we, my and my younger sister, had to stay with my father and grandmother, while my older sister had to stay home, work, and pay my mother's bills. My grandmother was nuts and was always looking for a way to bring me down. One time I wanted to go with my dad to the store and my grandmother told I couldn't and that if I walked out the door then I was a worthless tramp and not welcomed there anymore. In the meantime, my brother is highly messed up and was 120 miles away from home in a children's home because of crazy outbursts and chasing people with knives and whatnot. And my dad ended up getting custody of my brother and my mom freaked out about it, even though she didn't care before she tried to kill herself. I was wish my dad when we went to the hospital with the papers for my mother to sign. I saw a paperclip on the floor and lined cuts on her wrists. When my dad showed her the papers she screamed and locked herself in the bathroom and refused to see us. We drove an hour and a half to see her and we hadn't seen her in a while and she wouldn't see us.

I don't feel bad for people who victimize themselves, I'm disgusted by them. My mother has had every opportunity in the world to better herself and she's refused because she's addicted to misery and loves people babying her. When I was graduating from college she convinced me to go to the ceremony, because I didn't really want to myself. And the night she was supposed to come to see me graduate she ended up in the hospital again, for attemptive suicide. And lucky me...I met someone that night that knew my mother and asked me where she was. Obviously I couldn't tell the woman, but I shamefully said she couldn't make it. My mother was in and out of the hospital since then, which was May of '07, until she was recently released for the last time (to date anyway) at middle of this year. She's being pathetic again so I'm guessing she's about due to go back in. I'm sick of all her bullshit and complaining. She doesn't realize that people have it a lot worse off than she does...people such as her own children. That's why I don't give a shit about pathetic people complaining about their "pathetic" lives and actually daring to think they have it sooo bad that they NEED to have a release. I mean, come on. Get over yourself. I don't care HOW bad you've got it...there is ALWAYS someone out there who's had it a lot worse off than you have. And that should be reason enough to quit your whine baby crying, suck it up, and preserver. LIFE is a gift. You should cherish it. You can always make your life better and you can always make it worse. be grateful of the things you've got and for god's sake be grateful for things you HAVEN'T got as well.

Yo', I'm on Yearbook now, check me out and leave me some lovin's!!!
Alchemist
#31 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 1:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SnowWhiteCharming
I do. I judge people who do self-harm. I'm sick of all the whine ass little bitches.

I don't feel bad for people who victimize themselves, I'm disgusted by them.


obviously, although you are very jaded, and yes your story is a sad one, you have not stared death in the face. you have not faced your own mortality or thought about the consequences of cutting too deep.

it takes guts to hurt yourself knowing it might be the last time.
for many people, it is, and people like you who believe its just for attention, or because someone has a minor case of the poor me's, are only baring their ignorance for the world to see.

but id like to see how well you enjoy being told that your life was easy street, compared to someone elses. its not a fucking contest as to who has it worse. you dont win a prize because your family was messed up, girlie, PLENTY of others have been down that road themselves. just because they choose not to parade it around at the slightest indignation doesnt mean it didnt happen. doesnt mean it doesnt still happen.

im kind of sick of people acting like MY WOES ARE WORSE SO YOURS ARE NOTHING. why? because of COURSE your woes are worse--YOURE the one experiencing them! taking a turn in someone elses shoes is just too much fucking trouble so of course YOU win the miss misery pageant.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#32 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 1:11 AM
My whole point was that someone always has it worse...I wasn't claiming my life was the worse ever. So I don't know where you got that from. I KNOW people who've had it worse. And the reason I can be so sure that the people who feel the need to destroy their lives, as well as the ones around them, are immature and extremely selfish is because I've been there, myself. Okay, so I understand the DESIRE to just "end it all," but what I can't and won't accept is that act of doing so. There are so many people who get hurt in the process of hurting yourself it's just too much to bring down with you.

I'm not having a competition, god damn. I'm saying that other people have it worse than I do. Yes, my life wasn't roses...but there are PLENTY of people who've had it worse. The ones who were raped or repeated beaten as children or never lived under a warm roof. w/e else. Maybe explaining my story wasn't the right way to go about it, but I was actually trying to do the opposite of how you interpreted it. I agree with you...people have it worse than me, and worse than them and so on and so forth. I know everyone takes their problems differently and being that they're THEIR problems, of course it's going to be difficult for them to burden. I'm just saying...don't hurt yourself because you hurt. It doesn't make sense.

Yo', I'm on Yearbook now, check me out and leave me some lovin's!!!
Alchemist
#33 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 1:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SnowWhiteCharming
My whole point was that someone always has it worse...I wasn't claiming my life was the worse ever. So I don't know where you got that from.


here, then, i'll help you to see where i got it from.

Quote: Originally posted by SnowWhiteCharming
For god's sake, my life is truly unbearable at times. And what pisses me off so badly is that the reason my life is in such a pathetic disarray is because of my mother and all her self pitying.


you couldve left it there, but decided to include your lifes story, which i'll admit, was tl;dr. if youre going to bitch about "whiny ass" self pitiers, i advise you NOT to do the same as them...which would be, yes, you guessed it: letting go of waaaaaaay too much information in an effort to get others to understand EXACTLY how bad they have it, just to prove that yes, your life is indeed suckier than what you hear other people complaining about.
we get it.



And the reason I can be so sure that the people who feel the need to destroy their lives, as well as the ones around them, are immature and extremely selfish is because I've been there, myself. Okay, so I understand the DESIRE to just "end it all," but what I can't and won't accept is that act of doing so. There are so many people who get hurt in the process of hurting yourself it's just too much to bring down with you.

okay, so youve been there, and apparently your mother has too.
are you and your mother carbon copies of everyone else in the world? am i missing something here? must everyone think and act as you do?

and how is it NOT selfish to declare that people who wish to end their own misery aught to think of others first? because those people will be forever scarred because one person chose to off themselves? get real. theyll learn to cope without them or theyll join them. maybe they should take a page from your Get Tough Or Die book.

and as far as immaturity goes? puhlease.
children who are hurt want others to know. ADULTS are the only people youll see wandering around yelling SHUT UP AND GET OVER IT at others their age about their woes. who is truly immature, in that situation? the one who cant bear to get down and try to understand others, or the one who goes about expressing their pain?

I'm not having a competition, god damn.

couldve fooled me.


I'm saying that other people have it worse than I do. Yes, my life wasn't roses..


yes, i see that.

....but there are PLENTY of people who've had it worse. The ones who were raped or repeated beaten as children or never lived under a warm roof. w/e else. Maybe explaining my story wasn't the right way to go about it, but I was actually trying to do the opposite of how you interpreted it.

well, pretend that you arent you for a second and read what you read as if you were someone else. you may realize that perhaps a re-wording is in order.


I agree with you...people have it worse than me, and worse than them and so on and so forth. I know everyone takes their problems differently and being that they're THEIR problems, of course it's going to be difficult for them to burden. I'm just saying...don't hurt yourself because you hurt. It doesn't make sense.

i think it makes perfect sense.
if youre hurt on the outside theres no question as to whether youre hurt on the inside. its those people who bottle it up and dont say a word, then end up hanging themselves in their bedroom without warning [ because others told them that they could not express their woes, cough hint cough ] that really concern me.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#34 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 2:24 AM
A re-wording probably IS in order, but it's too late for that now. Okay, I'm immature, I'll accept that. After all, it was my immaturity that pushed me to make that "rant" post in the first place. I got mad and lashed out. True, I shouldn't have worded it the way I did. Yes, I could have done without going in depth. But going in depth is what everyone in here is doing...they're all talking about their personal experiences with self-harm...and that's not something most people talk about in general. So saying anything on the matter is automatically more detail than the norm.

Quote: Originally posted by SuicidiaParasida
if youre hurt on the outside theres no question as to whether youre hurt on the inside. its those people who bottle it up and dont say a word, then end up hanging themselves in their bedroom without warning [ because others told them that they could not express their woes, cough hint cough ] that really concern me.



Okay, firstly - You can't claim it is ever someone else's fault for someone committing suicide. Ultimately it was up to that individual, no matter what someone else told them. So saying someone could make someone else kill themselves is just plain mean and invalid. I know I didn't make my boyfriend kill himself, though he said he would if I broke up with him. And even though I refused to meet my friend's friend when he said I was his "last hope," that doesn't make me his murderer. Okay, people should be more sensitive...in certain situations. With the case with my mother she's been babied way too much and so people really shouldn't cater to her. But in the case of someone who is going through some serious stuff and just needs someone to listen; completely understandable. So yes, it is a by basis order of which to proceed. I should not have generalized. As I said before, I was immaturely lashing out. Either way, though, it's not the responsibility of another person to stop you* from killing yourself.*

Second - This quote sounds like you support people discussing their lives with others and expressing their "woes," but a minute ago you said I divulged too much information and no one needs to hear it. So I'm just conflicted on what your opinion truly is on the matter.

*used as a general term describing oneself

Yo', I'm on Yearbook now, check me out and leave me some lovin's!!!
Alchemist
#35 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 5:12 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SnowWhiteCharming
A re-wording probably IS in order, but it's too late for that now. Okay, I'm immature, I'll accept that. After all, it was my immaturity that pushed me to make that "rant" post in the first place. I got mad and lashed out. True, I shouldn't have worded it the way I did. Yes, I could have done without going in depth. But going in depth is what everyone in here is doing...they're all talking about their personal experiences with self-harm...and that's not something most people talk about in general. So saying anything on the matter is automatically more detail than the norm.


thats not what im getting at, and i think you know it.
from where im standing, theres a BIG difference between your "depth" and everyone elses "depth", so correct me if im wrong when i say...that was probably too deep for comfort.
and i know you get it so i wont repeat myself.


Okay, firstly - You can't claim it is ever someone else's fault for someone committing suicide.

where did i?
it isnt anyones fault. HOWEVER, i will not turn a blind eye to FACTORS that CONTRIBUTE to suicide. people dont usually just up and decide to kill themselves for fun, yknow? they usually have a helping hand, if not a literal one, then a more subliminal one.


Ultimately it was up to that individual, no matter what someone else told them.

yes.

So saying someone could make someone else kill themselves is just plain mean and invalid.

again, where did i say that?

I know I didn't make my boyfriend kill himself, though he said he would if I broke up with him. And even though I refused to meet my friend's friend when he said I was his "last hope," that doesn't make me his murderer.

didnt say it did. never would. but i WOULD say that it sure as fuck influenced his actions a tiny bit, because he chose to determine his actions upon yours. that still doesnt make you responsible and im not here to say you are, but like i said--contributing factors will not go unacknowledged.

Okay, people should be more sensitive...in certain situations. With the case with my mother she's been babied way too much and so people really shouldn't cater to her. But in the case of someone who is going through some serious stuff and just needs someone to listen; completely understandable.

depends on what you deem "serious stuff" then, wouldnt it?


So yes, it is a by basis order of which to proceed. I should not have generalized. As I said before, I was immaturely lashing out. Either way, though, it's not the responsibility of another person to stop you* from killing yourself.*

*used as a general term describing oneself

i agree with this also...but it couldnt hurt to have a helping hand, yeah?


Second - This quote sounds like you support people discussing their lives with others and expressing their "woes," but a minute ago you said I divulged too much information and no one needs to hear it. So I'm just conflicted on what your opinion truly is on the matter.

hmmmm no, theres a difference between supporting the discussions of succinct life scenarios [ which i feel was the general extent of everyones share time thus far ] and pouring ones life story into the post. if that were the name of the game my post would probably take up two pages. xD or maybe im just a drama queen.

my opinion truly is that people who self harm should be left alone, or given attention, based on what their needs require. there can be no mass judgments. its like health, really; everybodys body is different, but in key ways is the same. there are certain things we can all agree on, but others that are too convoluted to specifically categorize.
like, to me, that would be what makes one persons woes more valid than someone elses. and no thats not just naming you--ive seen plenty of people do it. in fact its one of my biggest pet peeves where i might deliberately say something vague about a crappy day i had, then 10 people [ or whoever im talking to at the moment ] decides that its an invitation to play Who's Least Valid To Whine. i dont think it works like that.
since we're all different people, we're going to be effected by different things.
dont get me wrong, i totally admire your strength of will to remain undefeated by strife. thats something i encourage in others. but part of life is accepting that not everyone is wired that way, or will come to realize and accept that they have that sort of power in their lives.

irritating as hell, too, i know. but to them, being powerless is a reality. its not a question.
i guess thats why i get annoyed when i hear people ranting so heavily about people who cant just suck it up and forage on like they can.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#36 Old 8th Nov 2009 at 7:19 AM
Alright. I've tried cutting, but decided to use other means of self harm. Currently I'm not doing anything, though. I have mental disorders, an ED, have been physically/verbally/sexually abused, parents that abuse substances, and more shit but I feel like I already have tried to make my shit a sob-story... I don't think my life is bad, actually.

I completely disagree with the whole "LYKE SUICIDE IS BAD U GUYZZZ" side of the topic, as controversial as it seems. Nobody chooses to be born, to be alive. To try force and someone to stay with that... it seems extremely oppressive. Some people genuinely do not like living. If anything, I think the selfishness comes from the other people in that situation. Forcing someone to continue something they abhor for their own happiness? WTF....
Scholar
#37 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 2:24 AM
There seem to be two kinds of cutters:

- truly messed up people
- fashionable attention whores

Both kinds need help. Type one has to cut for another reason than attention, because they do not ask for attention with it. They all describe it kills emotional pain, proably in a comparable way it does to annorexics bullimics. I know an ex-annorecix girl, was not an attention whore at all, it took long to find out she was annorexic at all, she didn't tell till she had therapy and was on her way to a cure.

Category two should be sent to Dr Phil. That will cure their attention need for a while.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Field Researcher
#38 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 2:50 AM
I've tried cutting once or twice, but it wasn't because I had a reason. I'd heard about people doing it and wanted to see what it was like. I've never been depressed or suicidal... don't even have any big issues in my life. So everything I've ever known about cutting I get from those around me.

My two best friends cut. One tried it to be 'badass', as she put it. She is bipolar, and started screwing up her life because she wanted the older kids in her support group to think she was 'as cool as them'. She's... interesting. Luckily, she realized that screwing up her life more wasn't helping anything, and is now recovering.

I also just found out that my other best friend cuts. Not very often, and not very deep. But I'm still worried about her. She told me she rarely does it, and that she would fix it because she didn't realize how much it affected me because of my other friend.

Should I trust her?
All those who have self harmed/do self harm... what should I do?

potterhead
call me bria
Instructor
#39 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 12:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by negneg189
I also just found out that my other best friend cuts. Not very often, and not very deep. But I'm still worried about her. She told me she rarely does it, and that she would fix it because she didn't realize how much it affected me because of my other friend.

Should I trust her?
All those who have self harmed/do self harm... what should I do?


What she told you, "I rarely do it and I will fix it", sounds like a typical answer I would give to anyone who would discover my secret. It's a form of defense, a way to make the problem look unimportant, you just shrug it off like "sheesh, I don't really know why I do it, I guess I was just stupid, I never meant it seriously, I'll stop it, righ now, really..." That's not any real promise, it's just an excuse, a way to quickly stop discussing the unpleasant matter.

What should you do? Each person is individual, what works for one is useless for another. A psychologist may help but only if the client is willing to cooperate. Here I am talking from my own experience. I was sent to a psychologist (for different reason than depression) and we had a nice chat. As a result, he told me that I was a pleasant young lady and he even complimented my level of maturity and my sense of humor...while inside, I suffered from depression, nightmares and had suicidal tendencies. He didn't discover anything of that because I played my part perfectly, so the only real result of the meeting was that I was really proud of myself because I had managed to "look normal".

Honestly, it's nice that you want to help her but it's her battle to win. Be supportive and be a good friend, if she wants to talk about it, then listen, but don't push her into something or she might close her heart. I can't give you any universal answer, it doesn't exist, but I can tell you what worked for me - a distraction.

Many reasons for depression are based on those moments when you spend too much time thinking about yourself, your life, your past and your future. What works the best in that case is to distract yourself with some kind of hobby that occupies your mind and doesn't let any place left for dangerous thoughts. If she has any hobby, be it any kind of sport, playing games, gardening or collecting books, support her, join "her club" if you want or try to help her find something she might enjoy, it will help your friendship as a bonus. Good luck!
Instructor
#40 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by kustirider2
I cannot believe you just said this. I went through a terrible bout of self-harm, which I am still not recovered from, I still sometimes feel like I want to cut myself again. I have suffered from Depression for well over a year.
Anyone who self-harmed is NOT a loser, You cannot label people for this! You basically have no control and when you are so upset you just grab the thing closest to you and do it.


Or not. How come I don't know anyone in my entire country that ever self harms - nor has anyone here that I talked to ever even heard of this "phenomenom"? And yet, you could say I know a lot of seriously depressed and screwed up people since I live in a country torn by wars where people eat garbage and can't afford a normal lifestyle.
When I go to the USA or the UK however, I see dozens of these self-harmed teens. And they're usually spoiled teenage brats. And I can only imagine their problems- their parents don't understand them and they've been dumped, etc... boo-hoo. In parts of the world where people deal with REAL problems like severe poverty and starvation you won't see this behavior.
What I said is probably offensive but I'm not trying to attack anyone personally, this is just how I see this whole thing.
Alchemist
#41 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jooxis
Or not. How come I don't know anyone in my entire country that ever self harms - nor has anyone here that I talked to ever even heard of this "phenomenom"? And yet, you could say I know a lot of seriously depressed and screwed up people since I live in a country torn by wars where people eat garbage and can't afford a normal lifestyle.
When I go to the USA or the UK however, I see dozens of these self-harmed teens. And they're usually spoiled teenage brats. And I can only imagine their problems- their parents don't understand them and they've been dumped, etc... boo-hoo. In parts of the world where people deal with REAL problems like severe poverty and starvation you won't see this behavior.
What I said is probably offensive but I'm not trying to attack anyone personally, this is just how I see this whole thing.


I completely understand you. I know a hell of a lot of people have it worse than me but I coudn't cope anymore. I got so angry and fustrated that I did it without even realising until it was too late. I was diagnosed with a couple mental health ilnesses which apparently contributed towards it. I'm also not one of those people who self harmed due to relationship issues or parent issues, I had a lot of problems in life, Which I (am) slowly recoving from
Theorist
Original Poster
#42 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 6:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jooxis
Or not. How come I don't know anyone in my entire country that ever self harms - nor has anyone here that I talked to ever even heard of this "phenomenom"? And yet, you could say I know a lot of seriously depressed and screwed up people since I live in a country torn by wars where people eat garbage and can't afford a normal lifestyle.


Well clearly you've heard of it to have such a strong opinion on it. And you do realize that there are people living in poverty in America and the UK, don't you? There are families who can't afford to buy their children beds and more than one meal a day. They wouldn't even be able to afford to house their children if it weren't for the government providing housing for them in some situations.


Quote: Originally posted by jooxis
When I go to the USA or the UK however, I see dozens of these self-harmed teens. And they're usually spoiled teenage brats. And I can only imagine their problems- their parents don't understand them and they've been dumped, etc... boo-hoo. In parts of the world where people deal with REAL problems like severe poverty and starvation you won't see this behavior.


While I couldn't find statistics for your country, it might interest you to know that most of the surrounding countries (such as Bulgaria and Romania) actually have higher suicide rates than the UK. And how do you know self-harm is not an issue in countries suffering from poverty and starvation? They don't gather statistics in those countries, and they don't focus on mental health because they have larger health issues to worry about. And in regards to self-harmers being spoilt...everyone I have known who has genuinely self-harmed has not done so because of their parents or relationship problems, nor have they been spoilt.

I'm not trying to be offensive either, I'm just offering some counter arguments to you.

"Your life was a liner I voyaged in."
Instructor
#43 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by kustirider2
I completely understand you. I know a hell of a lot of people have it worse than me but I coudn't cope anymore. I got so angry and fustrated that I did it without even realising until it was too late. I was diagnosed with a couple mental health ilnesses which apparently contributed towards it. I'm also not one of those people who self harmed due to relationship issues or parent issues, I had a lot of problems in life, Which I (am) slowly recoving from


I can definitely relate to the relationship issues and life usually does suck so it's good to learn to think positive and make the best out of the crappy situations life throws you into. I hope you fully recover and can lead a happy life as soon as possible.


Quote: Originally posted by BewitchedPrue
Well clearly you've heard of it to have such a strong opinion on it.


Yes, although I've lived abroad in the US for many years.

Quote:
And you do realize that there are people living in poverty in America and the UK, don't you? There are families who can't afford to buy their children beds and more than one meal a day. They wouldn't even be able to afford to house their children if it weren't for the government providing housing for them in some situations.


Yes, I'm aware of this but I don't see how it contradicts anything I've said. Besides, you can't deny that America is not generally considered an impoverished nation and that an average American lives better than an average Somali or Aghanistani. But anyway, I was referring to those Western suburban/urban teens who feel miserable but don't have, according to me, justified reasons for it. Of course I'm not talking about everyone in the Western hemisphere.

Quote:
While I couldn't find statistics for your country, it might interest you to know that most of the surrounding countries (such as Bulgaria and Romania) actually have higher suicide rates than the UK.


This is true. There is suicide everywhere in the world - I don't however consider suicide similar to self-harm. People who commit suicide clearly want to end their life and it's a state of mind that most people on Earth can get into. People who inflict self-harm do not want to end their life but have different ideas in mind when doing this. If they did want to end their lives, they would cut themselves in a way that achieves this (which isn't difficult). In other words, they are not killing themselves - they are doing something else, whether it's craving attention or a temporary release of mental pain/frustration, etc...

Quote:
And how do you know self-harm is not an issue in countries suffering from poverty and starvation? They don't gather statistics in those countries, and they don't focus on mental health because they have larger health issues to worry about.


I don't, I was actually basing my opinion on my own observations and experiences - if someone can prove me completely wrong, that's fine. And from these experiences I have noticed that people who have it REALLY bad, don't try and harm themselves but rather focus on trying to maintain a semi-decent lifestyle albeit under great depression.
And people who have harmed themselves were young people going through changes in their lives, who feel lost and have exagerrated their problems in their minds. And I can accept that not all people who inflict self harm are "spoiled" - it's not always the case but there seems to be a pattern that supports a connection between these two concepts.

And what I say makes sense to me. Why would someone who is desperately struggling to survive and feed his family try and physically hurt himself even more? It seems bizarre and I haven't heard of such cases.
Alchemist
#44 Old 9th Nov 2009 at 7:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by jooxis
Why would someone who is desperately struggling to survive and feed his family try and physically hurt himself even more? It seems bizarre and I haven't heard of such cases.


well, theres a number of reasons they may do so.

maybe because they can pretend, that way, that theyre shedding their issues with the release of death....without the actual release of death.

maybe because its too much to live with, but not enough to cause them to die.

maybe because thats how they assure themselves that they are indeed still alive, and not in hell or something.

it could be because they WANT to die, they WANT to make that final cut/burn/whatever, but the thought of abandoning who they love in life causes them to fall short and hold off on the final stroke. they want to be rid of their misery but not cause more.

i assure you, for a questing mind, there are plenty of answers to discover.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Versigtig, ek's nog steeds fokken giftig
Field Researcher
#45 Old 13th Nov 2009 at 3:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by danirawr_SC
I really hate when people say it's only for attention. That's absolute bull. They should feel glad they've never had to experience it, and therefore cannot understand.

I used to cut, and I hated anyone to see or know about it. It's not about attention at all, most of the time. And even in some cases when it is for attention, maybe the self-harmer believes that's the best way to let people know what's happening to them?

One of my friends was recently diagnosed with clinical depression and she's been cutting again, and she's ashamed to wear short sleeves. Would your friend say she does it for attention?

I'll never understand shallow, judgemental people. How they can live with themselves...
*breathes*

Rant over.


So true. I self harmed (using a razor to slice my arm) because when I felt really depressed (and its not the "Im depressed cause they dont have my colour" type) the pain is extreme. It hurts sooo bad that you try to gain some sense of control by creating a different type of pain that can be more easily controled (eg stopping it). For anyone who hasn't felt it, try to remember the worst you have ever felt when your chest literally hurts and you put your fist in your mouth to stop screaming out.
Moderator of Extreme Limericks
#46 Old 13th Nov 2009 at 4:19 PM
Just a quick reminder to everybody: please don't let this thread get too personal. It's fine to share your own experiences and insights when they're relevant to the debate topic, but please try to avoid turning this into a story-sharing thread. Topics that personal aren't allowed anywhere else on the forums, so that rule has to apply in the debate room as well.

Thank you.

There's always money in the banana stand.
The other one
#48 Old 14th Nov 2009 at 10:01 PM
I think that cutting is a coping mechanism in the same way that alcohol, drugs or even comfort eating among other things is. They’re all self harm though some are more extreme than others but they all provide a release and/or distraction from something that we find unbearable to even think about.

Jooxis, I can really see your point on this but I think to an extent most people probably self harm at some point in their life as a coping mechanism when things get really bad but a) depending on various factors like where you’re from, how you’re brought up, what you’re used to and your personality ones threshold for coping can vary massively from person to person and b) we each find our own ways of coping.

I grew up in a poverty ridden, dangerous and violent estate. I knew many who were a lot worse off than me who had that to deal with that as well as abusive (in various forms) parents/relatives among other things. To my knowledge none of them cut themselves but most self harmed. Usually drugs and/or alcohol abuse to escape their reality.

Ref the original post, from the way you tell it, it definitely sounds to me like one or two might have been genuine cases and the rest were doing it because they thought it was fashionable/made them more interesting/would get them extra attention. If the girl who cut herself in class was actually in danger then the teacher should have done something however, if the faculty had reason to believe that this was an attention thing then she may have been told to ignore such instances. I’m sure any mother would tell you that one of the best ways to cure a child of tantrums is to not react at all because then you are only giving them what they want – attention for bad behaviour.

Guys, rules are good! Rules help control the fun. ~ Monica E. Geller
Lab Assistant
#50 Old 24th Nov 2009 at 7:26 AM
This is an interesting debate. A lot of ground has been covered. I don't think I could respond to or even absorb everything in one sitting, so please forgive me if I neglect to mention a relevant point.

I think it is both difficult and important to recognize that mental health issues are complex and relatively poorly understood. Only recently have we begun to develop methods of examining the underlying structural and chemical makeup of the brain. Only recently have we begun to develop medications that can adjust an individual's biochemistry so as to improve his or her overall function. For much of human history, all that we could do was observe individual behavior and rely upon self-reported accounts of symptoms. People fear what they do not understand and, as a result, subjects relating to mental illness became taboo. Those observed or reported to be mentally ill were feared, ostracized, institutionalized, and even sometimes abused or killed. Today, a social stima still clings to the idea of mental illness, sometimes even amongst doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and others in the medical field. The truth is that, while we know a great deal more about mental illness than we ever knew before, the diagnosis and treatment of such illnesses is still a highly subjective business that still relies heavily on self-reported analysis of symptoms and trial-and-error drug protocols. None of us can speak from a true position of authority on this issue; too many variables yet remain to discover, let alone explore in full.

That being the case, I think it is important to refrain from judging those who self harm or from deeming some forms as valid and others as invalid. There is simply no way for most of us to know the true mental state or intentions of someone who cuts himself or herself. Anyone who exhibits this behavior is acting in a way that is well outside social norms as well as basic self-preservation principles. Until that person is evaluated by a qualified medical professional, any theories pertaining to causation are mere conjecture. Whether certain cases or circumstances qualify as valid or invalid in your view should have no bearing on whether or not an individual should be afforded evaluation and appropriate treatment. Only highly trained medical personnel are qualified to make such determinations.

At the very least, patients presenting with deep or infected lacerations -- whatever their causes -- should never be barred from adequate medical treatment, including pain relief. Left untreated, those who cut or otherwise injure themselves are vulnerable to infections and other complications up to and including death. To deprive individuals of necessary medical assistance is unethical. To support that step based on your own ignorant assumptions of the cause(s) of the individual's malady is, well, cruel. In this day and age, when so many mental illnesses and their symptoms can be effectively treated or at lease assuaged, confirmed or suspected cases of mental illness or injuries derived from mental illness should never be ignored simply to gratify or justify the social stigma that still persists.

In my view, then, it is difficult to answer the OP's question of whether deliberate forms of self harm (for example, cutting) are in any way similar to other forms of self harm, like imbibing alcohol. Those external behaviors are the products of poorly understood internal processes. Until we know more about the causes of such behaviors (in individuals as well as in societies as a whole), it is nearly impossible to compare or contrast them in any meaningful way aside from stating obvious facts (like one causes immediate lacerations to the skin and the other causes organ and system failure over time).

The question of whether or not those who self harm are deserving of evaluation and treatment, though, is easier to answer. Since the cause of a malady, even a cut, can only be reliably determined by a trained professional, it would seem that the proper course of treatment (including doing nothing) cannot be determined without a proper evaluation. After all, how can we even be certain that wounds are self-inflicted unless a proper evaluation is performed? To deny treatment based on supposed cause seems rather like putting the cart before the horse.
 
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