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Original Poster
#26 Old 19th May 2010 at 10:12 PM
Step 2 (use CFE to return to 16 clicks per level) is probably unnecessary.

For some reason, I'm having problems placing two 2-click stairs side by side in this scenario. Is that working for you? [Update:] Nevermind. I placed floor tiles on the ground and the stairs are quite happy now.
Top Secret Researcher
#27 Old 20th May 2010 at 6:27 AM
Ooh, just found this thread! Looks like you are all making a good deal of progress. Am I right that it looks like we don't need a new object, just an invisible modular stair and a bit of tricky building?

Ami's basement stairs are one tile in from the edge - am I confused, or could the stairs actually be placed against the basement wall?

I've been busy with many other things, but I'm happy to see great minds are still working on this kind of thing. I'll be happy to join in if there's anything I can do.
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Original Poster
#28 Old 20th May 2010 at 7:04 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 20th May 2010 at 7:24 AM.
Ideally, it would be nice to have a new object with more reasonable animations. However, 2 or 4-click invisible modular stairs are looking pretty good.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one tile in from the edge"? Maybe it would help if I shared my latest underground no-slope basement lot.
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#29 Old 20th May 2010 at 7:23 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 20th May 2010 at 8:30 PM. Reason: Add GridAdjuster screenshots
Default Proof of Concept: Underground No-Slope Basement with Invisible Modular Stairs
Invisible modular stairs seem to work pretty well for a no-slope basement, allowing the sim to travel from the ground level (level = 0) to the first floor (level = 2).

Small base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

I've attached screenshots for the GridAdjuster. The water level is handled by starting with a sloped basement built 16 clicks down.
Screenshots
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip ModularUndergroundNoSlopeBasement.zip (995.0 KB, 33 downloads) - View custom content
Description: Invisible modular stairs allow access to main floor.
Lab Assistant
#30 Old 20th May 2010 at 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Step 2 (use CFE to return to 16 clicks per level) is probably unnecessary.

Yes I just did that so I didn't confuse myself (its easily done).
I had a little play with ramps using this method my only problem was the length of wall needed to get the level of elevation I wanted.



Top level is 4 clicks.
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#31 Old 20th May 2010 at 4:29 PM
Default Testing Methodology
Here are some of the things that I like to ensure work with these lots. I usually test with base game only and with all EPs and SPs (except Store Edition), just to make sure that things are likely to work for any configuration:

1) Sims will enter house on their own initiative.
2) Newspaper delivery (especially Apartment Life)
3) Visitors can find front door and ring doorbell
4) Burglars manage to get into the house
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Original Poster
#32 Old 20th May 2010 at 4:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiehiggs
I had a little play with ramps using this method my only problem was the length of wall needed to get the level of elevation I wanted.
4 clicks high over 10 tiles... is this the maximum slope that sims can navigate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Ami's basement stairs are one tile in from the edge - am I confused, or could the stairs actually be placed against the basement wall?
Did my latest upload answer your question?

Note that these no-slope basements still have the (known) problem that some objects don't work well next to the wall. Most things seem to work, but I found that TVs against the wall in the basement tend to cause the sim to error.
Lab Assistant
#33 Old 20th May 2010 at 4:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
4 clicks high over 10 tiles... is this the maximum slope that sims can navigate?

I see. Im not sure but i think this tutorial might be of interest...Link We might be able to use some of the techniques.
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Original Poster
#34 Old 20th May 2010 at 4:55 PM
You mean the "sliding tile"? I wonder what allows the sim to travel up such a huge elevation difference.
Lab Assistant
#35 Old 20th May 2010 at 4:58 PM
I think its because they see it as the same level.
Dancing Flamingo
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#36 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:25 PM Last edited by HugeLunatic : 20th May 2010 at 5:37 PM.
So far no luck finding the bhavs that control how many steps are placed in the bridge (middle part) of modular stairs. But there are 54 of them. LoL I also haven't been able to apply modular stair bhavs to fixed stairs.

I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.

Edit: Stealth stairs already achieve this with the sliding...doh!
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Original Poster
#37 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.
That sounds good. Right now, I'm using Eddief66's invisible recolor of Numenor's *Recolourable* Holy Smoke modular stairs, for exactly that reason: no need for either CEP or the Scriptorium to be installed. Unfortunately, the invisible recolor is no longer available.
Lab Assistant
#38 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:34 PM
I think im not understanding the slope options correctly does the length of the wall determine the height of the slope?
I want a slope of 0 to 16 clicks but im just getting a slope thats much less than that.
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#39 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:41 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 20th May 2010 at 6:50 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiehiggs
I think im not understanding the slope options correctly does the length of the wall determine the height of the slope?
I want a slope of 0 to 16 clicks but im just getting a slope thats much less than that.
I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you asking about the GridAdjuster parameters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.

Edit: Stealth stairs already achieve this with the sliding...doh!
I'm not very familiar with stealth stairs, but I thought that stealth stairs had a climbing animation, followed by a slide upwards. [Update:] Verified. Stealth stairs have a climbing animation for the first 2 stairs.
Lab Assistant
#40 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:53 PM
yes sorry im having trouble with the size of the slope.
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Original Poster
#41 Old 20th May 2010 at 5:52 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 20th May 2010 at 6:17 PM.
Could you post a screenshot of the GridAdjuster parameters that you're using? That might help me to understand where the problem lies.

[Update:] Oh, I think that I see what you're saying. Yes, the range (from front to back or left to right) affects the slope. Your starting elevation is assumed to be at the start of the range and your ending elevation is assumed to be at the end of the range. If you want the slope to go in a different direction, then change the rotation.

So, if you want a slope of 16 clicks for each tile, over a range of 10 tiles, then you need to specify a slope of 160 clicks.

Does that answer your question? Sorry about being so dense.
Lab Assistant
#42 Old 20th May 2010 at 7:57 PM
Your not being dense in fact i think its me!!!
Ok what i want is for this wall to start at 0 clicks (stair side) and finish at 16 click but its not!! What am i doing wrong.
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Original Poster
#43 Old 20th May 2010 at 8:24 PM
I suspect that the problem is your range.

Try:
Levels: 1 to 1
Depth: 14 to 15
Width: 3 to 13
Sloped
Elevation 16 to 0 clicks
Rotation: Left to Right

(or: Elevation 0 to 16 clicks from Right to Left)
Lab Assistant
#44 Old 20th May 2010 at 9:12 PM
Worked perfectly sorry for being dumb im still working out all the buttons.
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Original Poster
20th May 2010 at 10:56 PM
This message has been deleted by Mootilda.
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#45 Old 21st May 2010 at 4:06 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 22nd May 2010 at 1:36 AM.
Default Proof of Concept: Fully Enclosed Courtyard
A fully enclosed courtyard seems to work well with 2-click invisible modular stairs, except for the lighting at night. No matter how much lighting I add in the courtyard, it seems to stay pretty dark at the 0-height ground level. Lighting works fine on the full-height main level.

2x2 base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[Update:] Problems resolved. Test lot removed. See next proof of concept post.
Screenshots
Top Secret Researcher
#46 Old 21st May 2010 at 12:53 PM Last edited by aelflaed : 21st May 2010 at 1:59 PM.
From that linked tutorial and my own long-ago stealth stairs use, the stairs actually get the sim from level to level, while a 'slide' gives access to the other parts of the same floor, regardless of how rocky the trip. I don't remember sims sliding on the actual stairs - perhaps I overlooked it. I stopped bothering with stealth stairs pretty early in my builidng experiments.

I haven't done a 'tile-slide' as such, but as far as I know, sims will traverse any sloped floor without noticing the incline. It's not really a level change, so they carry on as normal - the level is only visual, and only for the player. Rope ladders and bridges are made the same way, and the sims walk 'normally' across/up the floortiles. I have made houses with bridges and ladders this way.

Mootilda, I've downloaded that house and will have a look - don't want to spend time creating my own basements at present, so thanks. But the screenshot of your stairs pretty much answered my question.

Regarding the courtyard house, did you try the outdoor spotlights? Any indoor/wall light gives almost no light when placed outside, and the fence lights are not much better - unless you want to light up the fence. The ground lights are far more effective.

EDIT - Had a look at both houses. Couldn't improve the lighting in the courtyard at night, but it certainly looks good in the daytime. I thought there might be some routing problems when crossing the lot, with sims walking the circumference of the house instead of crossing the courtyyard - but Julien did cross it at least some of the times. The basement house seemed to work fine (only a quick look really).

The invisible stair animations do look odd, but could be ignored. It would be lovely to have an object that did the job smoothly, though.

Nice houses, Mootilda! (I did have to cheat Julien a whole lot more money so he could test them for me.)
Dancing Flamingo
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#47 Old 21st May 2010 at 5:05 PM
I have a modular stair without the animation, they slide through it just like the previous fixed stair version. The problem is that to have no animation they need to be new stairs and will require a script file. My little confusion earlier was because I forgot to set the animation for the local package and it was globally affecting all modular stairs. LoL

At the moment it is not recolorable, and that is either because I have a typo or because it is referencing another mesh. But considering that this needs a new package and script file I could just as well make a mesh consisting of a flat plane and include the invisible recolor in the package. Unless you want a normal stair/railing package.
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#48 Old 21st May 2010 at 6:36 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 21st May 2010 at 11:48 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
I haven't done a 'tile-slide' as such, but as far as I know, sims will traverse any sloped floor without noticing the incline.
That's good news. I've been ignoring the ramps for the moment, since amiehiggs has been focusing on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Mootilda, I've downloaded that house and will have a look - don't want to spend time creating my own basements at present, so thanks. But the screenshot of your stairs pretty much answered my question.
Good. I realized later what your concern might be; were you talking about the standard fixed stairs from the main floor to the basement? I was so fixated on the 0-height stairs that I didn't even notice the other ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Regarding the courtyard house, did you try the outdoor spotlights? Any indoor/wall light gives almost no light when placed outside, and the fence lights are not much better - unless you want to light up the fence. The ground lights are far more effective.
I tried the ground lights, street lights, table lights, ... just about anything that was willing to be placed. Nothing seemed to make much of a difference.

I'm tending towards the belief that the game somehow recognizes that any light placed on the ground level is taller than the level above. I intend to experiment with this further, to see whether I can figure out the rules. This problem reminds me of the problem with Apartment Life (I think?) when you try to move things up and down on the wall... the lighting isn't always correct.

[Update:] Experimentation with the 2-click foundation seems to confirm this. Lights which are under 2-clicks, like the fence lights already on the lot and the low ground lights, work just fine. However, the tall ground lights and fence lights on taller fences shed no light at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Nice houses, Mootilda! (I did have to cheat Julien a whole lot more money so he could test them for me.)
Yeah, I kind of got carried away. I like the house enough that I'm thinking about making a 2-click foundation version for upload, if I can figure out any lighting issues. I'll be able to reduce the price a bit by making the foundation level a real foundation. I don't want to remove the ground level foundation completely, because then it becomes difficult to make changes to the main level, since it is now floating in the air with no means of support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
I have a modular stair without the animation, they slide through it just like the previous fixed stair version.
Is the sliding less noticeable with the modular stairs (since they require only two tiles) than with the fixed stairs (which requires three tiles)? In any case, I think that the sliding looks better than the climbing motion; sliding looks smooth and deliberate, whereas the climbing looks like they're tripping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
The problem is that to have no animation they need to be new stairs and will require a script file.
OK, that makes sense. It's unfortunate to require people to install a script, but I understand why it's required. I'm always looking for the simplest solution possible; as I'm sure you've noticed, I try to avoid CC whenever possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
But considering that this needs a new package and script file I could just as well make a mesh consisting of a flat plane and include the invisible recolor in the package. Unless you want a normal stair/railing package.
No, I think that the flat plane is perfect; no real need for a stair mesh. Even if the object is used to traverse a 1-click difference in elevation, the floor tiles should provide the semblance of a stair.
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Original Poster
#49 Old 22nd May 2010 at 1:31 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 22nd May 2010 at 1:44 AM.
Default Proof of Concept: Fully Enclosed Courtyard
A fully enclosed courtyard seems to work well with 2-click invisible modular stairs, including the lighting at night. Previous lighting problem solved by raising ground level to full-height inside of the courtyard. GridAdjuster screenshots attached.

Note that I reduced the size of the landings inside of the courtyard, to increase the amount of space that could be properly lit. I didn't bother to take new daytime pictures, since the lot hasn't changed otherwise.

2x2 base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.
Screenshots
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip SunnyCourtyard.zip (1.41 MB, 28 downloads) - View custom content
Top Secret Researcher
#50 Old 22nd May 2010 at 1:49 AM
oh, well done! I mrely confirmed that you were right about not being able to light the previous version - not much use, I know. Glad you figured it out.
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