I think I heard this about a week ago. There was a guy who got drunk and called a taxi. He asked the driver if he was Muslim, and when the driver said yes, the guy slit the driver's throat. Here's the kicker- the guy was a member of a group promoting religious tolerance.

The pastor is a dumbass and a bigot with a stupid looking mustache.

Not sure if anyone has seen it, but the planned burning is now not going ahead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11255366. His reasons are weirder then why he decided to do it in the first place:



Don't know about you, but someone isn't telling the truth here.

He's delusional, obviously.

See, I totally agree with this. Whilst it might not get an extreme reaction in the West, it is likely to in the Middle East because their religion is taken extremely seriously over there.

Does anyone know of/remember the controversy surrounding Salman Rushdie and his book The Satanic Verses? Wiki link. Basically (for those who don't know) Salman Rushdie is a British novelist who wrote The Satanic Verses back in the '80's which allegedly depicts Muhammad in a blasphemous and offensive way, and as a result this caused a huge uproar amongst many Muslims, particularly in the Middle East. Rushdie received threats of violence, had a fatwa issued against him and had to go into police protection for some months. In addition to that, people were injured and even killed during protests against the book, and it was banned in many countries.

There was no intention of malice or offence on Rushdie's part. The book didn't translate into Arabic well so it came across as though he was linking Muhammad to the devil in a way that he wasn't, and AFAIK most of the people protesting hadn't even read it.

I'm using this point to illustrate the kind of response that 'attacks' against Islam can elicit. It wasn't just Muslims living in the Middle East who reacted this way; it also happened in the West, and IMO what this pastor was/is planning to do is far, far worse than what Rushdie did.

Whether they have photos of radicals buring holy texts or Christians praying in their churches, Terrorist groups are going to find a way to use whatever we do that is not in sync with their beliefs as material for their motivation. Anytime I profess that Jesus Christ is my Savior, I go against Islam. Every divorce, every abortion, every infidility that is committed against a husband (not wife, btw), in America, in the Western Culture region, across the globe is material and motivation for Terrorists. It makes no difference; if you are not with them, you are against them. This line of reasoning is ludicrous.

I am not saying that it is right, but because of our Constitution, he has the right.

I would much rather be posting and petitioning and picketing and fighting for the poor lawyer woman who is to be (or maybe has already been) stoned in Iran for some really stupid thing...STONED...to death!!!???? In 2010?!?!?! What kind of judicial system issues that kind of sentence in the 21st Century? Who is going to do it? A collection of her peers? Our country has the death penalty, but at least it is "civilized"(?) But Stoning? Give me a break! The arcane beliefs and domcumented practices of some of these countries (sorry if they just happen to be Muslim) are incomprehensible to me half the time. I cannot believe anyone in their right minds would say anything in support of half the crap they do or believe in, let alone die for it in some extreme cases.

Oh, btw, to say that lumping ALL Muslims together as "Anit-American Radicals" just becasue 7 crazed lunatics caused mass terror on our country how ever many years ago it was, is wrong, but it is OK to lump 250 million Americans together as "Muslim haters" because 1 burns a Koran is absolute hypocrisy.

I would not be suprised if they are purposely provocating muslims and exaggerate it so its easier to justify a new war againt the "muslims" later on, preferably on places where off course a lot of $$ oil is found.

When in 911 they showed photos of the so called terrorist later it was found out half of them were still alive in other countries, and they were not terrorists.

Whoever crashed the World Trade center, it seems very easy to blame it on supposed "muslim terrorists" who are suppsedly angry about burning quarans and start a new war again.

Next week on the Conspiracy Channel: Are American scientists creating false proof of new rocket fuel mixtures so they can fake another Moon landing?

Oh, and for the record: There's hardly any oil in the regions where we have been fighting. The amount of oil in Saudi Arabian and Canadian soil far outstrips anything they could produce.

Of course. Just like NASA managed to land on the Moon several times. Even though in photographs of them on the moon, the flag is flying.... in a place where there is no wind. And when we live in a world where we have lots of independent journalists keeping an eye on things, despite the advances in technology, NASA fails more often then they apparently did back in the 1960s. I'm not saying I believe all the conspiracy stories I hear, but seeing a flag in the wind in a place where there is no wind... kinda looks a little bit fishy.

The infamous photo: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...:0&tx=163&ty=92

But that's another debate entirely.

Back on topic, I'm happy he's finally called off the burning but I think the chances are it'll still go forward, he's just delaying it in the hope he'll get a deal. I wonder what's going to happen tomorrow, I'm at work most of the morning though so won't find out for ages

No, you don't. And most Muslims know enough about their religion to know that. If they didn't, there would be a lot more people on the terrorists' side. And lolwut? Where is divorce wrong in Islam? Infidelity is wrong, for both a man and a woman equally. Just because in places like Iran, this doesn't seem to be the case, doesn't mean this is the religion's fault.



As I said above, I have the right to burn the American flag if I see America as pure evil and it must be destroyed. But why do something so stupid in the first place? I'd probably get thrown in jail anyway, since my government relies on American funding to do pretty much anything.



Oh please don't go there. It's been little over 45 years since it was okay in your country for white people to hang black people for no reason. Women weren't treated so atrociously, but they didn't exactly have that many rights either. Just because you have moved past this, doesn't mean the rest of the world has. America has been a self-governing country for a much longer time than the Middle East, with little interference from other countries, whereas the whole idea of independence here is pretty much new, and the governments are constantly being told what to do by outside powers. They haven't had enough time to sit down and think 'hey, maybe what we're doing is wrong', they're too busy thinking 'we have to do whatever it takes to show the world they have no power over us'.



Where did anyone say that? No-one said it was OK to label all Americans as Muslim haters, but just as people lump Muslims together as American haters because of radical terrorists out of ignorance, people in the Middle East will also lump Americans as anti-Muslim because of one radical idiot out of ignorance. Both are wrong, but both happen/will happen.

Sorry if none of this makes sense, I'm trying to finish this off really quickly as I'm in a rush.

I'd just like to add here that Muslims and Christians worship the same God but under different names. Muhammed is the name of a Christian prophet, and Jesus is the name of a Muslim prophet and vice versa. The only difference fundamentally is that each religion believe a different prophet is the Messiah/Son of God/True prophet. Both of them have Abraham in common, and the Old Testement in the Bible has similarities with the Koran I believe (correction?). Therefore true Muslims and Christians have nothing against each others religions if they are knowledgeable, as it is seen as different routes but leading to the same God.

Nabila_Ici - Where do you live? I know you've said "here" so I assume you live in a primarily Muslim country - but I don't see a location listed in your profile. Just curious - it's interesting to have a viewpoint like yours in this debate, in any case.

@Lemon&Lime That's an enormous oversimplification, and while it's a nice idea, the reality is that even Christian denominations make conflicting claims about the nature of God and of reality, let alone the differences between all the Abrahamic religions! These religions' definitions of God and nature are competing with each other, and can't easily (or perhaps ever) be reconciled. You might be interested to know that Jesus is also part of the Islamic mythology, as well as the Christian one, only in Islam he is just a minor prophet and not the son of god.

They can hopefully co-exist peacefully even while competing. But I don't have much confidence of that happening under Capitalism. Poverty makes for religiosity and war, and poverty in some large areas of the globe is an inherent outcome of Capitalism, essential for it to exist.

It was my intention to simplify it. Your point about conflicting claims is a bit random, I was simply stating basic, child-level facts.

1. Islam and Christianity are related through prophets and Abraham.
2. Both worship the same God. (Although have slightly different interpretations; its argued for example that the Jewish/Old Testament God is different to the New Testament God, but thats too complicated.

A god only exists in its interpretations. The fact that the interpretations differ (and they differ a LOT actually) means that the gods differ. They worship different gods with a shared origin.

These aren't "child-level facts", they're well-intentioned distortions of fact.

You better go and phone AQA and Edexcel then. They're teaching those children/college students incorrect facts. I learnt the things I've just posted while studying for my A-level in Religious Studies, and also my GCSE in Religious Studies.

My interpretation of you may be different to another user on this forum. It doesn't mean you don't exist or that I'm confusing you with someone else. (That's a one of the ways my teacher explained it to make it easier to understand).

I'm sorry, I didn't realise we were suddenly presuming ancient Middle Eastern people had actually had encounters with one verifiably existent god. In studying the Bible/Koran as literature we assume they are parts of a cultural tradition, not necessarily real. That's just crazy.

Before the conversation continues to veer off topic... please don't turn this into a debate on the finer points of theology. That's not really the point of this thread, and we have separate threads for exactly that purpose.

I live in Egypt.
Although religion doesn't have that much influence in the country (for example, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar mosque declared a member of the government [I think, I don't think I understood the story properly] a devil-worshipper, the government didn't really give a crap), it is still a big part of everyday life for 80% of the people.

That's looking at it from a non-religious prespective though. I can't believe you just said that Biblical people didn't have encounters with a God!

Anyway, I can't believe that this Koran-burning incident has become as big as it has in the media. The church only has 50 members I think?

Haha, I know! Like somebody said in the previous page, it's just some unknown guy and some unknown church trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

I wonder if he intended to call it all off from the beginning, after getting all this attention.

The thing is, I've been expecting him to do some preaching for his "type" of Christian faith to take advantage of the free advertising. But he hasn't.

No wait, he has been mentioning his book.

No, it's a neutral perspective. We don't know either way whether they encountered a god (although it seems unlikely, after all, if Tobit, Judith, and Job are sacred fiction, why not Abraham or Christ? Occam's razor.)

Keeping that neutrality, Islam and Christianity are making different claims about both their gods and the structures those gods rule over. As investigators we can't favour one god or the other, and we can't pretend they are fundamentally the same because they're not. Instead we acknowledge common historical origin for the god. Islam and Christianity are two sects worshipping different monotheistic gods that have a close historical relationship to each other.

Should keep on topic, but just for kiwi_tea -

Okay. Christianity and Islam are child religions of Judaism. This is a historic fact. They are worshiping the same monotheistic God. They just have different ideas of that God. There. Now keep this atheist v. religion or what the fuck ever crap out of it.

Now back on topic.

Okay, so yesterday was fun. First he canceled it, saying he struck a deal with, ohhhh, what's his name, the guy in charge of Park51. The pastor said he got a deal saying Park51 would be moved. Then it turns out, no, he doesn't have a deal, and they never even spoke.

He said the event was canceled, and then, yes seriously, condemned any organization hereafter who would burn Qu'rans. There was another man there, uh, crap. I cannot remember these Islamic titles. Iman? Well there was one there with him, who said he got in touch with the guy who's running Park51's office, and set up a meeting between him and the pastor. He's the one who said the pastor was speaking on a matter of faith (see below).

Then the story changed that when he said that there was a deal to move Park51 , he was going on faith that he could convince them to move it, not that it was already done. The pastor made claims he was lied to.

Now the event isn't canceled, it's just being postponed.

/headdesk.

I find it kind of hard to take him seriously now, though. Partly because I just googled him and his mustache makes me lol, and partly because he's clearly a blatant liar with a 'hidden' agenda.