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Theme Catchup2018 - posted on 1st May 2018 at 1:50 PM
Replies: 205 (Who?), Viewed: 59199 times.
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Test Subject
Original Poster
#26 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 9:56 PM
Hey guys sorry for the link not working in my other comment here is what the link said:



Legal Drugs that are more dangerous than illegal drugs:

New research has found that alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than some illegal drugs. When ranked based on actual risks posed to society, alcohol and tobacco are among the top 10 most dangerous substances.

Risk to society was calculated based on the physical harm to the user, the drug's potential for addiction, and the impact on society of the use of the drug. Groups of experts assigned scores to 20 different drugs, including heroin, cocaine, Ecstasy, amphetamines, and LSD.

Heroin, cocaine, barbiturates and street methadone were ranked the most dangerous. Alcohol was the fifth most harmful drug and tobacco was the ninth most harmful. Neither marijuana nor Ecstasy made the top 10.

Tobacco causes 40 percent of all hospital illnesses, while alcohol is a factor in more than half of all visits to hospital emergency rooms.
Scholar
#27 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:03 PM
I'm not disagreeing with your point that cigarettes and alcohol can also be harmful, but I'd like to point out that the bit about "impact on society of the use of the drug" is considerably higher than other drugs precisely because they are legal and socially condoned. Far more people use alcohol and cigarettes than use pot, crack, heroin, or any other illegal drug, so it is to be expected that the effects of alcohol and cigarettes would be greater.
Scholar
#28 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:19 PM
I'm firmly in the camp for legalization for many reasons the biggest being medical usage. In fact there are all ready many states that allow the legal growing, distribution and use for medical marijuana.

There are many other ways to ingest the drug (THC) without smoking it. Eating it in some form is fairly widely known but it can also be reduced to a liquid that you would place a few drops under your tongue for it to enter your blood stream. There is also a way to vaporize it using a custom made vaporizer that has a small hose attached from which one would inhale the vapor. Note that vapor and smoke are not even close to the same thing however inhaling the fumes is the fastest way for the drug to enter your blood stream.

From a medical standpoint marijuana offers pain relief for many with crippling and terminal illnesses. For cancer patients it acts as a pain reliever but also it helps control the nausea and overall lack of appetite induced by chemotherapy. For MS patients in many cases it is the only relief they have for the torturous pain that effects their muscular system. The drug itself acts as a muscle relaxer so it's medical implications are fairly far reaching.

When comparing it to other pain killers used for the same conditions such as Oxycontin, Percocets or Morphine it is not addictive. You do not go through withdrawal symptoms if usage is stopped, you do not suffer from nightmares, cold sweats, hallucinations or any of the other myriad of fun filled symptoms that are part of serious withdrawal. You don't even under go the personality changes associated with withdrawal from nicotine.

As for the recreational usage well as many have said and as many studies have proven it is not as harmful as alcohol, not even close. The most harm recreational users generally come in contact with are having to acquire it illegally and the fact that it can be laced with another more harmful drug.

I do not advocate legalization without any restraints to where anyone could grow it for distribution but more of what already exists in California where they have to be licensed growers. The drug itself actually becomes safer and more effective when you have someone who knows what they are doing growing it.

Finally the plant itself is sort of a miracle plant and has many uses beyond just marijuana, cloth, rope and paper are just three items that spring to mind that can be produced from hemp. The growing of it is not as hard on the soil as cotton is, in manufacturing it does not produce much waste product.

The reason marijuana was initially made illegal in the first place, in the US anyway, was not because it was a psychotropic drug it was because the cotton industry lobbied heavily for it. In doing so they produced all sorts of propaganda about the drug itself such as the movie Reefer Madness, which is the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen.

It is not the big evil scary drug that it has been painted as. Most of the people I know that oppose it have never tried it and buy into the propaganda produced by the government. I'm not advocating that everyone goes out and gets high simply that if you have no personal experience with it then you really don't know what your talking about.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#29 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree
I'm not disagreeing with your point that cigarettes and alcohol can also be harmful, but I'd like to point out that the bit about "impact on society of the use of the drug" is considerably higher than other drugs precisely because they are legal and socially condoned. Far more people use alcohol and cigarettes than use pot, crack, heroin, or any other illegal drug, so it is to be expected that the effects of alcohol and cigarettes would be greater.


People use marijuana as much as they do cigarettes and alcohol... Its just not as broad casted as the use of cigarettes or alcohol because you can still get locked up for marijuana use.... and plus if marijuana did become legal it would be just like alcohol when they lifted the ban off of it:

One day its a big, huge deal and then the next day its part of society....
Test Subject
Original Poster
#30 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:34 PM
here is a chart i picked up from a website

This was a death toll that was recorded last year: 2010

Cardiovascular diseases-806,156
Malignant neoplasms-562,875
Motor Vehicle Crashes-43,945
Drug induced-38,371
Septicemia (infections)-34,828
Suicide-34,598
by Firearms-31,224
Accidental poisoning-29,846
Alcohol induced-23,199
Homicide-18,361
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-11,295
Viral hepatitis-7,407
Cannabis (Marijuana) -0
Alchemist
#31 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:42 PM
if it were legalized, id prefer something also be tacked on to the degree that it couldnt be smoked in certain places. my lungs have already been effected by second hand tobacco, and a genetic heart problem furthers my respiratory issues. smoke from weed makes me cough uncontrollably and if i dont get clean air relatively quickly i pass out.
it never makes me "happy" or "high", and quite frankly i believe it smells like the wrong end of a cow. same goes for cigarettes, too.

if i:
A) wouldnt have to endure it in enclosed public spaces (much like cigarettes)
B) didnt have to endure it in my home (places with poor insulation--currently the apartments i have allow for anything my neighbors smoke to drift in from their apartment into mine via the heater)
C) didnt have to deal with the people it effected (much like how you arent allowed to be obnoxiously drunk outside of a drinking establishment)
D) could have some sort of legal reassurance that drivers wouldnt be allowed to drive while under the influence of weed, as it does effect your reflexes which could be very dangerous

...i would say, go for it. and while youre at it, legalize everything else.
but then, i really dont care how people choose to kill themselves, as long as they dont try to drag me into it along with them.
ah, and, remember back when cigarettes were "healthy"? yeah. probably my biggest reason for not buying that "omg weed is harmless" crap until theyve researched the everliving hell out of it.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world that would exploit your ignorance."~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Theorist
#32 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:46 PM
Quote:
In my language drugs and medicine are two distinct, unrelated words. 'Narkotyk' is a drug (marijuana, hashish, etc.) and 'lekarstwo' is a medicine. 'Narktoyk' harms and 'lekarstwo' heals. Simple. When I say 'a drug' in English I only mean marijuana, hashish etc.

They're two words that mean the same thing. If you take prescription drugs/medicine when you're not supposed to or take too many then they will harm you, likewise marijuana has proven medical benefits. Kids overdosing on normal over the counter drugs like Tylenol are pretty common where I live.

Hi I'm Paul!
Test Subject
Original Poster
#33 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidiaParasidia
if it were legalized, id prefer something also be tacked on to the degree that it couldnt be smoked in certain places. my lungs have already been effected by second hand tobacco, and a genetic heart problem furthers my respiratory issues. smoke from weed makes me cough uncontrollably and if i dont get clean air relatively quickly i pass out.
it never makes me "happy" or "high", and quite frankly i believe it smells like the wrong end of a cow. same goes for cigarettes, too.


Yes i agree if it is legal than it should have destinations where you could smoke it (like a Netherlands Coffee Shop [a.k.a weed smoking house]) and you probably have smell a danky type of strain of weed if it smells like cow "crap"
Forum Resident
#34 Old 22nd Jul 2011 at 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidiaParasidia
D) could have some sort of legal reassurance that drivers wouldnt be allowed to drive while under the influence of weed, as it does effect your reflexes which could be very dangerous

Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#35 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempscire
Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.


yeah there is always that problem impaired driving with any drugs....
Alchemist
#36 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempscire
Driving after getting high can already get you a DUI. There's no reason they'd remove that if marijuana were legalized. I don't know what could be done preventatively since we haven't come up with foolproof ways of making sure no one drunk ever gets the behind wheel.


i didnt know that, but thanks for telling me.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world that would exploit your ignorance."~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Test Subject
Original Poster
#37 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 1:47 AM
Well im off to bed guys ill check this post later to give more info.....
Scholar
#38 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 1:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SceneKidz
People use marijuana as much as they do cigarettes and alcohol... Its just not as broad casted as the use of cigarettes or alcohol because you can still get locked up for marijuana use.... and plus if marijuana did become legal it would be just like alcohol when they lifted the ban off of it:

One day its a big, huge deal and then the next day its part of society....


Alcohol is used by nearly everyone (except Mormons and certain other religious sects) at some point, and usually on a regular basis. Cigarettes used to be a huge deal, though they are admittedly now unpopular and used less often. Many people who've used marijuana have tried it once or smoked it for a brief period during their lifetime and then given it up. Yes, there is a substantial group of people who make it a lifestyle, but not nearly to the degree that cigarettes and alcohol are adopted as a lifestyle choice.

I doubt that marijuana will ever be just like alcohol, partly because alcohol is so deeply ingrained in so many societies and partly because, given the unpopularity of smoking cigarettes and the fact that smoking marijuana can have many of the same respiratory effects, I doubt that smoking marijuana will be cool once the element of rebelling and doing something forbidden is taken away by legalization. I'm not saying that everyone does marijuana for that reason, but many young adopters of the drug pick it up for that reason and, as it starts to be recognized as something generally unhealthy and frowned upon by the majority, there will be peer pressure to not use marijuana.

I think using the argument that cigarettes and alcohol are just as bad or worse than marijuana is a bad strategy for arguing for legalization. Saying "these legal things will kill you more effectively than this illegal thing" does not assure your audience that the illegal thing will not kill them. I see so many proponents of legalization use this argument and it just ends up being annoying because it's paraded around like some sort of infallible shield against opponents when really it's just bad logic.

That said, I think marijuana should be legalized as a matter of personal freedom. I have no intention to ever use the stuff myself and I find it a disgusting habit, but I think you should be able to put disgusting things in your body if you want to and you're not hurting anyone else.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#39 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 2:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree
I see so many proponents of legalization use this argument and it just ends up being annoying because it's paraded around like some sort of infallible shield against opponents when really it's just bad logic.

That said, I think marijuana should be legalized as a matter of personal freedom. I have no intention to ever use the stuff myself and I find it a disgusting habit, but I think you should be able to put disgusting things in your body if you want to and you're not hurting anyone else.


yes arguing legalization can be bad logic IF thats your only defense on the subject because you will just use the same info over and over again.... My defense on the subject is legalization, health benefits, society benefits, economic benefits and its relation with other legal drugs and how less harmful it is....

But yes marijuana should also be legalized on a matter of personal freedom just like you said...

p.s. marijuana is not as disgusting as some of the food and other stuff we put in our bodies daily but that is a different thread that i might start :P
Instructor
#40 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 10:37 AM
I'm pro-legalization with some restraints. And definitely against jail sentences for possession at the very least. If nothing else it keeps otherwise good people from being put in a system that enforces illegal behavior more than curtailing it. Besides, shouldn't we be putting people in jail only if they pose a danger to others and not just (arguably) their self? Illegal distribution should also be cracked down instead of some poor schmuck who forgot to hide his weed. It's definitely listed improperly in the drug classification levels as well. It's no where near as serious a drug as it's made out to be. But neither is it completely safe. However that shouldn't be and isn't a very good reason for it's current illegality. I'm sorry but it'd have to pose a clear danger to anyone who uses it or is around those who use it for me to consider it worthy of outlawing.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#41 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elyasis
And definitely against jail sentences for possession at the very least. If nothing else it keeps otherwise good people from being put in a system that enforces illegal behavior more than curtailing it. Besides, shouldn't we be putting people in jail only if they pose a danger to others and not just (arguably) their self?


I agree with that statement 100 %.. why waste jail space on a local weed smoker who wasnt doing any harm besides minding his own business


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elyasis
Illegal distribution should also be cracked down instead of some poor schmuck who forgot to hide his weed.

once again i agree with this statement
Field Researcher
#43 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 5:56 PM
I think that all drugs should be legal. Yes, all, including cocaine, heroin, and others. This entire war on drugs is stupid, the government needs to realize that if people want drugs, they -will- find some way to get them. I mean, if people want to make stupid decisions just let them make those decisions. Why should we care?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#44 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 6:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid paradox
I think that all drugs should be legal. Yes, all, including cocaine, heroin, and others. This entire war on drugs is stupid, the government needs to realize that if people want drugs, they -will- find some way to get them. I mean, if people want to make stupid decisions just let them make those decisions. Why should we care?


but not all drugs have as good of a helping effect as marijuana though.... alot of drugs (crack,coke, heroin, speed, lsd, shrooms) are very dangerous in small amounts... so if it was legal than people could / would get a hold of large amounts and kill themselves.... plus crack and meth labs do alot of harm to the enviroment
Forum Resident
#45 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 6:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SceneKidz
alot of drugs (crack,coke, heroin, speed, lsd, shrooms) are very dangerous in small amounts... so if it was legal than people could / would get a hold of large amounts and kill themselves....

I don't think shrooms are actually that dangerous in and of themselves; the danger is making sure the mushroom type is not poisonous... Those drugs are all currently illegal, yet people still can/do get hold of large amounts and kill themselves. (Or get hold of large amounts and not kill themselves because they have self-control.) They could be treated as prescription drugs are, at least in terms of limited amounts to be purchased at one time, come with literature on over-use/abuse and the expected effects, etc. Distribution could be monopolized or at least coordinated so that once you purchase XYZ, it'll show up in the system and you'll be prevented from purchasing again too soon. (Though personally I think even that would be a bit restrictive, and for all you know someone's trying to get more for their friends to partake-- it's not like we assume people buying 20-packs of beer are alcoholics about to drink themselves to death.)

Part of the danger of illegal drugs as well is the uncertainty of their content. For all you know, the cocaine you just got is laced with god-knows-what for the seller to make more profit. It's not like there's any testing for quality control.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#47 Old 23rd Jul 2011 at 6:56 PM
alot of people dont even buy drugs like crack or coke from a dealer alot anymore when you can go to walmart and buy the ingredients to make it
Scholar
#49 Old 24th Jul 2011 at 6:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SceneKidz
alot of people dont even buy drugs like crack or coke from a dealer alot anymore when you can go to walmart and buy the ingredients to make it


What? Cocaine is made from the leaves of the coca plant which is commonly grown in S. America. Crack is a derivative of cocaine. So, not sure how you could buy the stuff to make it at Walmart.

Are you sure your not thinking of crystal meth? That's made from pseudoephedrine which used to be commonly found in over the counter decongestants. Now it's a controlled substance and you have to show valid ID and get it from the pharmacist. You can also only buy a maximum of 15 doses. I know this as an allergy sufferer and I use an antihistamine combined with pseudoephedrine so I have to subject myself to this every two weeks.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#50 Old 24th Jul 2011 at 1:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashfan
Cocaine is made from the leaves of the coca plant which is commonly grown in S. America. Crack is a derivative of cocaine. So, not sure how you could buy the stuff to make it at Walmart.


oh no meant to say you can buy the other ingredient to make crack (baking soda) from walmart... I know cocaine comes from the coca leaf (which is illegal in u.s.) and you would have to go online and buy the leaves from a certain website (which i will NOT post here due to kids reading these forms)
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