• open world/neighborhood
• genetic reproduction (inheritable features, etc.)
• all life stages
• improved graphics

For the last point, I am not as concerned about technical graphic specs as I am about aesthetics, including animations. So I can live with a certain amount of cartoonishness if it shows increased sophistication in some way. I guess the consumer impulse would be equivalent to expecting a new car to have higher-end and more advanced features than my old car, even though my old car was just fine and the new car is a little strange to me. I am trying to keep an open mind about what constitutes improved graphics, maybe the kids at EA will surprise me. I did enjoy the enthusiasm shown by one of the concept artists on live broadcast a few months ago... was his name King? He showed some Sims 4 sketches and chattered about the "stylized realism" concept.

Wow, really? Well, then, no point in being here anymore, I'm done!

I think I am the lone wolf here as every Sims 3 game/expansion I bought is through Origin. I had to make sure after each installation that the program was removed from my startup configuation but the majority of the time, Origin is not active. I will occasionally get the message "Unable to connect to Origin" if I click on the launcher to buy Store content, but it doesn't affect it at all and I do not need to start Origin to proceed. The only time I had to activate Origin was when I was downloading a new version of CAW, but after that I just deactivated it again.

Hmm, absolute dealbreakers? I mean, I have a long list of "nice to have" stuff, but dealbreakers? Not so much.

But I'd imagine this would be the basic needs for a Sims game, other than the Sims themselves:

• The ability to build my own homes and community lots
• Aging and generational gameplay (There is no going back after Sims 2.)
• The ability to go off-lot, to visit friends (No going back after Sims 3, either)
• Sims speaking Simlish

If it has that, I'm at least willing to give the basegame a try. And I can't imagine it won't.

Obstrusive online features are the ultimate dealbreaker for me, and, it seems, everyone else here. I've accepted that I'll need to cooperate with Origin upon install, but after paying 60-70 bucks for the base game, if my game isn't as "complete" as others' base games just because they can afford to buy things from the Store that unlock businesses or other opportunities or whatever, then no thanks. That reeks of elitism. The second part of that one, great dealbreaker, is if I have to connect to other users and participate in multiplayer-esque activities just to unlock certain features of the game. What makes the Sims so great is the isolation - it's quiet time, and the game is mine, and mine alone. Basically, I don't want EA shoving itself in my face during gameplay, which is, I guess, why TS2 and I get along so well.
Another dealbreaker is extreme emotions. If emotions rule the game, and it becomes detrimental to gameplay because I can't get stuff done because my sims are too busy throwing fits, then I'm not interested in playing. I want a game that steps back and lets me play the way I want.
CASt, an open world, and story progression (with a functioning "off" switch) are the only things that appealed to me about TS3, and I'd really like to see them in TS4.
The attraction system, wants/fears, and improved genetics (improved from TS3, and, I hope, at least a little better than TS2) just seem like essentials to me - I don't understand why they got lost between TS2 and TS3, and I have no desire to play a Sims game without them.

Edit: And are comm lots really rabbit holes in TS3? Because haha, no thanks. That's definitely a dealbreaker - community lots that I can actually play on are another thing I think should be a given.

A diablo style auction house that allows people to sell their stuff.......that'd be the last straw for me.

Clarify this for me - I'll need to connect to the Internet every time I restart my computer and want to play the game? If this is the case, that's unacceptable. Firstly, and primarily, for those who don't have an Internet connection on their gaming computers (not too uncommon among teenagers, I'd think) and secondly for those who don't have always-on connections. Or like, earlier this month I lost my phone/Internet (I have DSL - it's what's available) because someone doing some digging hit something on a Saturday, and I called the phone company on Sunday, and they sent someone out on Monday. I spent my time playing TS2 and watching Classic Who. I want my games most when my Internet is out (for whatever reason).

They say we won't need a persistent Internet connection, but will we need only once (for activation) or will we need it "intermittently" after we install? Not that I'm at all sure I'm getting the game at this point.

That is so true and not everyone play the game and have a internet connection available. Someone posted that if they wanted to play while on an airplane but didn't buy the WiFi, they can't play? Aww, too bad for you? Yep, that is total BS and will be a pain in the ass because who wants to pay $18 (the cost the last time I flew) for a shitty connection just to play their game, they bought? SMH

I gave up all hope on it so I stopped being vocal about it. It counts as 10 minus points on my pro/contra list. So, it could make a difference for me too.

I just think there's no way around it in the future and my biggest dread is that one day, I can't buy a disc.

Whoa whoa whoa there, WHAT? Does that mean if I'm heading off to visit my mother in Greece where her internet is super-spotty and decided to take my laptop, I've gotta activate my game before I leave and then what, make sure I never switch it off? I don't want to have to go down the pub with wifi with my laptop every time- actually, that's a great excuse to go down the pub, never mind.
Seriously though, we've just had our modem replaced and before that, it was up and down and up and down like a yoyo. I sim when I can't get online. I thought this game didn't require a persistent internet connection! For me, requiring internet every time I load counts as a persistent internet connection.

- Hugely improved graphics (no more pixar/Disney style, thank you very much. I'm an adult, gosh darn it! )
- CASt
- Open World
- No forced online features

My Requirements:

01. Open world with proper/intelligent story progression that can be turned off
02. CASt (but color wheel at the very least if no CASt)
03. Proper/Intelligent genetics with changing appearance in-game NOT affecting genetics
04. Hair system similar to TS3 with base/roots/highlights/tips changeable (otherwise a slew of color shades that include highlighted and alternative styles)
05. Eye colors as many as or more than in TS3
06. Customizable babies with legs, changeable clothes/hair, and more interactions for them through socialization and objects
07. All TS3 age groups minimum + preteens if possible
08. Gender preference selection
09. Proper/intelligent attraction system + likes/dislikes/interests system
10. Proper/intelligent dates and outings + TS2-style phone contacts for groups
11. Proper/intelligent wants/fears
12. TS2-style memories, regardless if customizable
13. Some kind of college/university system (full campus desired but not required until appropriate EP)
14. Rain as the only weather option if general weather excluded + temperature if possible

I approve!

Thank you! I try to be as realistic as possible with some of my requests. For example, if we can't have CASt or other powerful tools and features, we should at least have loads of options for what would eventually be a depressing loss. If "less is more," then, the "more" in that phrase had better live up to its meaning.

That's an excellent, very well thought out list. Thanks. I wish we could turn this into a petition. Or fire a thousand copies of it at EA headquarters with a cannon.

I agree. I think it's the most reasonable list I've seen so far.

If only Graham could print copies of it and share it at a staff meeting or something.

I stated on another thread about having some form of higher education in the base game. I agree wholeheartedly about that because we know University is coming, seems odd after playing sims having professional jobs without a certificate or degree to qualify. It would be appreciated.

EDIT: I had been thinking about this. What if sims had professional jobs before a University EP is released, would it be so hard to add levels to like the medical field that is only attainable if the sim have a degree?

No Origin, no on line requirements.
I'm in the good old USA, and my internet is spotty 'cause I don't live in a city.
No spyware.

Take a look at the workarounds people are having to do right now, today, with Sims 2 because EA took the website down. Doesn't apply if you already worked around the launcher, but still. So in a few years, no one will be able to play Sims 4 because the website is down? And why would I want to buy a game I can't play for decades? We still play Starcraft over here: we like what we like and we keep playing it.

Also, the sims can't have the claymation look of Sims 3. Story Progression is an absolute no. Ability to have custom content is key.
And for now, I'll keep on playing with my Sims 2. With my custom skies, terrains, skins, eyes, baby outfits, and everything else.

Thank you, and it would be such a blessing if this entire thread of equally awesome ideas could be taken seriously. These kinds of threads can really help shape up the game, regardless of how relevant they are to the suits. I do hope the suits will listen to us. Do they not realize that they can, in fact, make lots more money by listening to their customers? I'm sure many of us can agree that we would be willing to spend good money on what we want. It'd be a win-win! Ah, well. Let's hope this thread helps with something.

You know, on some sick level, one has to enjoy just how stupid and stubborn EA is. They saw how utterly they ruined SimCity, but unlike any sane company, instead of reverting back to their older policies, they just decided to keep it, but do it in a way that seems less restrictive when it actually is just as much.

I don't care if the sims 4 was supposed to be an MMO at its start, now it's supposed to be a single player game. Unless I want to use some of the completely OPTIONAL online content, the game should never, ever even think to look at the state of my internet connection. All it has to do, is start when I tell it to, and only look at my internet if I ask it to.

Seriously, what's the point of buying a disc or a legit digital copy through steam, when the game won't start any ways unless it first goes through some stupid EA software that I have no need to and that I will never use, and then check for my connection. And all this each time I restart my computer. The answers is none, there is no point, unless you so desperately want to support a company that would inflict this crap onto their paying customers. Because it's not like the pirates will suffer for this. They'll either find a way around it or give it the middle finger. It's only us, who actually want to pay for this that will suffer. Well screw that!

They lost any money they could have made with the Sims 3 with me because of the crap they pulled with securom in the Sims 2 years. Now with origin and online check they lost any chance they had for me to support this series again. At the rate they're going, I doubt the Sims 4 is gonna be worth anything more than watching a few minutes of a let's play on youtube. I'm done!

But at least if they keep this stunt up, I'm sure that the welcome reception that all the other simmmers will have to this DRM once the game comes out, will surely earn them another lovely prize for them to add to their collection in 2014. Congrats EA, at least you get to keep your priiizzeee.

And for those who think they might remove this if we yell loud enough, all I can say is, wait until the game is released and then see.

must haves :
- CAST
- more action options for talking, fighting, loving, ect.
- NO internet needed all the time.
- free world similar to TS3 NOT like TS2.
- at least all the ages in TS3.
- Sim language.
- free build with option to use blue print, not just blue prints.
- the baby having bodies like in TS2.
- option to go into places and restaurants like TS2.
- Animals , small like bird and snakes , etc.. roaming around and wild deer and horses as well.
- more kid and baby things, cloths, toys, furniture and decoration. ( changing tables, stroller, swing, high chair ,bouncer, sand box, etc... )
- I would be more inclined to do with out some minor things if seasons was already on it.
- more jobs that you control like stylist and investigator. ( maybe a vet and store owner- like in TS2 open for business when you could own your own store in your home or buy a public lot)
- more single people with JOBS around town to meet.
- multiple births 1, 2, 3, even 4 would be fun.
- having apartments
- more areas for city life and sub divisions and open country living.
- when buying food have different qualities, horrible-cheapest , bad-cheap, ok/normal- moderate/ , good -expensive, an so on that way families on a budgets can afford real food not just juice and cereal.
- more food option, with meat and non meat. ( corn dogs, meat balls, desert pies, fried chicken, and like full meals , options like mashed potatoes and gravy with turkey or like fries and burgers , eggs and bacon....)
-champagne for parties.


would really like some of these, but might still buy if not all on it.
- bar drink not being juice.
-bathing toddlers and babies
- drunk Sims ( teen, YA ,adult, elder)
-preschool for toddlers ( can get major skills , walk, talk, potty and also have easer time doing h/w when older or easer time making friends with out the genius trait or friendly one.)
- more pets like farm pets, chickens and pigs.
- more plants to garden
-take out food / delivery ( Chinese, pizza , fast food)
- more bad things teens can do, ( drink, expel from school, steal cars, have babies- with other teens only not teen ans any other age group) its more realist I went to high school and their was a ton on people who were already parents as teen agers.
-university with option to live at home or dorm, going makes career faster and the classes could give you skills like at graduation depending on major say it gives you ,2 logic points 2 charisma ect.
- having to mow lawn or growing it tall for either horses or just because
- Gardner, Nanny choice of times and days they come, Butler live in but no have to feed/ care for them them and all that just give them orders.
- boasts either house boat or small finish ones for oceans or large ponds.
-listing already shown like TS2 for skills , cooking, cleaning, fishing, .. and they light up went down a prize ( cooking all 10 gets you either like secret recipe or the choice to pass all knowledge down to one sim- give them all 10 points too, cleaning gets you a cleaning robot or up grade 5 things to self cleaning ....)
- in create a Sim have the option to have a pregnant Sim but not decide the gender and have her start out pregnant.
-having to teach toddler/children to swim or they wont know how.
- developed traits like in pets. ( sims who watch tv all day learn the lazy trait and if they were previously active it cancels out the active, sims who never clean up after them selves learn the messy/slob trait. ect)
- private school option or wealthy sims.
- longer pregnancy and option to see the gender before birth at hospital, ( like say its four days and two days in)
- sending announcements / baby showers/ bridal showers/ bachelorette and bachelor parties/ retirement parties for people who retire in the top of their career and thy could get money and all that.
-getting birthday cards in mail from long lost relatives for kids,and teens.
- baby's get piggy bank like thing similar to the storage the sims have but its for the kids to save money frugal ones can save milk money and all that and money from rocks and keep it for them self's and when its time for them to move out they can have that along with the usual amount given. or to buy gifts for parents and do s they please, they should also have an option to give an allowance when they do chores with out asking( trash out, dishes, brushing teeth, ect)
- graduation gift from long lost relatives.
-seashells on the beach
-one night stands ( not having to have a good relation ship to woohoo)

most of all TS4 should have a good mix of the Sims games taking parts that make them fun and interesting and updating them and not leaving things out but adding to it. like TS2 with the body babies I hate them in a swaddle and TS3 with all the ages and the free world. with out all the expansion packs at least have a lot of things in the base game. I mean its nice to have the new tool to customize them and easer to work so that they look better but I am more concerned with the story part.

-Babies with legs
-A better trait system - the traits in TS3 are mostly useless
-Harder gameplay - TS3 is way to easy
-Better routing
-If not CAST, SOME way to change the color of outfits
- And, I don't want emotions to be annoying. That's pretty much it.

The ability to play the game on my computer, which is never connected to the internet. As long as I can install the game and play it on my internet-deprived computer, I'll probably buy the base game.

Unfortunately, I believe that I've just stated a requirement which EA will not meet.

On the off-chance that I actually get that one, I have one other requirement which will make it likely that I'll continue to buy EPs: the game must be fun.

Yes, that's pretty much the deal breaker!

Genetics.

TS3 genetics were so bad,it was the main reason I stopped playing. Also, toddlers/kids need way more to do. Their interactions were limited to begin with, and then with TS3 it regressed 20 steps - kids can't paint, or play instruments, or do ANYTHING even remotely useful. They're like deadweights in TS3.

So a close runner up for me would be: More interactions for toddlers/children.