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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 1st Sep 2013 at 7:09 PM Last edited by ericapoe : 2nd Sep 2013 at 8:05 AM.
TS4: Is there hope?
The Sims will probably never go back to TS2 or TS1 because they removed the key ingredient. Passion. The Sims was created by an awesome guy named Will Wright and after Sims 2 he left the franchise (I think it was to pursue another career, but don't quote me on that I'm not sure), and all the copyrights were left/sold/whatever to EA.

The company was like a chicken with it's head cut off and they lost direction because they had no leader, and without their leader there was no passion. The new creators have tried, but have not done The Sims justice. They all may not have agreed on the same vision, or the company restricted them on what they could do, but whatever the reason, TS3 lacked the heart and attention to detail the first two games had.

Don't get me wrong though, I have played the hell out of TS3 and do enjoy the game (actually played it more than TS2), I just don't see it as an extension of the first two. I see it more as an off brand. Its kinda like eating grandma's chicken noodle soup which is amazing (TS1), then eating mom's version that has a little extra spice that's even more amazing (TS2), then making your own chicken noodle soup without their help. You followed the recipe to the dot, got all the right ingredients, and tried to add your own pizazz, and even though it tastes okay, for some reason it just isn't right (hence TS3). TS4 could be their second attempt to recreate that chicken noodle soup mom used to make. Every failed attempt is one step closer to getting it right.

So TS4. I am definitely curious to see what it's going to be like, and really hope they will try to put some heart into it. Give us nessie! Give us llamas! And for cripe sake bring back those damn reticulated splines! They should do everything they can to make simmers feel more at home and loved.

I like both TS3 and TS2 but you know what (OH MAN! THIS IS A PLOT TWIST) my heart will always belong to TS1! lol seriously though in every town I've ever played in (2&3) I always recreate Bob and Mags Newbie and ruin their lives
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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 1st Sep 2013 at 9:04 PM
A lot of people apparently think there is no hope. Look in every TS4 thread and there's at least three people who think EA is doing something wrong with the game already. It does get a little disheartening at times when you see so many mixed reactions, but I still think the game won't turn out as bad as people think. So yeah, I think there's hope. The game still has a long a ways to go before it's published, and at least they're TRYING to get our attention.

(Disagree frenzy time! That button's so addictive to press, isn't it? )
Alchemist
#3 Old 1st Sep 2013 at 10:52 PM
I really hope Graham reads this and shares it with the rest of the team. It's very insightful and I love love love the chicken noodle soup anology!
Lab Assistant
#4 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 5:45 AM
I only pop in to catch up on TS4 updates every few days, but everything I've seen so far has made me pretty skeptical about whether this game will be worth a purchase. I was really hoping for improvements to the build system, which it's pretty clear we haven't gotten if the best they can do is talk about their new and improved blueprint mode, and from what I saw of emotions in the trailer, it just doesn't seem like its that revolutionary. I plan on waiting a few weeks after release before I make up my mind, so as to gauge the community's reaction after they have an opportunity to play the game.
Field Researcher
#5 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 7:27 AM
Can't help but agree with OP. For me, Sims 1 feels like Christmas before it was commercialized. I do like TS2 and 3 for their own reasons, but I do feel like the soul of The Sims has long, long flown away.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 7:53 AM
i agree with you on a lot of things that you've said. i just don't want to admit some things about ts3 because i enjoy it so much, and it suits my playstyle more (one family per game..) but i have to say they still have original sim things. the basketball, which i believe ts2 didn't have.. you could get from the store. and a list of other things ts1 had that ts2 doesn't but that ts3 does.. and ts3 has our grim reaper, families from ts2, tragic clown.. newspaper delivery, etc etc that the previous games have had. so i wouldn't write ts3 off as bad.

i'm absolutely sure that by ts4 the original vision has gone.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#7 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 8:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by christmas fear
i agree with you on a lot of things that you've said. i just don't want to admit some things about ts3 because i enjoy it so much, and it suits my playstyle more (one family per game..) but i have to say they still have original sim things. the basketball, which i believe ts2 didn't have.. you could get from the store. and a list of other things ts1 had that ts2 doesn't but that ts3 does.. and ts3 has our grim reaper, families from ts2, tragic clown.. newspaper delivery, etc etc that the previous games have had. so i wouldn't write ts3 off as bad.

i'm absolutely sure that by ts4 the original vision has gone.


I had no idea you could get the basketball hoop! I never buy things from the store lol

If I wasn't so freakin cheap I would so be buying that right now!
Mad Poster
#8 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 8:19 AM
TS2 did have a basketball hoop. In an EP, not sold separately.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#9 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 9:04 AM
It isn't the basket ball hoops,(which we have) the grim reaper or the newspaper delivery that gives sims 2 heart, it's the way the sims act and react. They have emotions (so I don't know why EA acts like that's a new thing) that you can tell without reading about it, a quirkiness and humor lacking in TS3 sims. Taking Grim as an example, the TS2 Grim is while somewhat scary is also kind of funny and loveable. I'd have to watch both at work side by side to say what exactly that is though. Does the TS3 Grim pull out a mobile (cell) phone out? Will he use the toilet and watch the TV or both if your sim was the last to die on the lot? Does he play the pick a soul hand game? I'm asking as I've only had one sim die in TS3 about a year ago and I've forgotten what he did, all I remember is I thought he was creepy.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Department of Post-Mortem Communications
#10 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 9:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
It isn't the basket ball hoops,(which we have) the grim reaper or the newspaper delivery that gives sims 2 heart, it's the way the sims act and react. They have emotions (so I don't know why EA acts like that's a new thing) that you can tell without reading about it, a quirkiness and humor lacking in TS3 sims. Taking Grim as an example, the TS2 Grim is while somewhat scary is also kind of funny and loveable. I'd have to watch both at work side by side to say what exactly that is though. Does the TS3 Grim pull out a mobile (cell) phone out? Will he use the toilet and watch the TV or both if your sim was the last to die on the lot? Does he play the pick a soul hand game? I'm asking as I've only had one sim die in TS3 about a year ago and I've forgotten what he did, all I remember is I thought he was creepy.
Hm, the last time I saw him in action he flirted with the now-widow and then insulted her home before going 'Poof!'. She was flirty and hot-headed, so it seems that he knew exactly what he was doing
But it's rare for him to hang around after he's completed his job, that's true.
Interaction with the Grim Reaper was greatly reduced by subsequent patches after people had begun to either move him in or at least get a Grim Reaper baby, the former of which, surprisingly enough, can break the game.
Test Subject
#11 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 1:32 PM
I'm quite optimistic. I don't really mind if there are a few things that bug me about the game because I could probably make a list as long as my arm for all the things I would like to change about TS2 & 3, yet I still enjoy playing both. EA can't possibly make a game that is perfect for everyone, so I accept there will be a few things in TS4 that will make me want to pull my hair out. I'm not making excuses for EA, BELIEVE me! I'm not looking forward to all of the overpriced store items and crappy Katy Perry/ Justin Whatshisface/ whoever is popular next year stuff packs. We don't know a huge amount about the game yet, so at the moment I'm excited about it. We'll probably never get back the quirkiness and uniqueness of the original Sims game, but as long as it keeps me entertained for a couple of hours after a long day at work then I'll be a happy simmer.
Site Helper
#12 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 5:14 PM
I'm one of those people who has very little hope.

I tried to keep up my hope for Sims 3 and even bought some of the games, but they sit on my shelf uninstalled and unused. I wasted months trying to like the game, but eventually went back to Sims 2.

I tried to keep up my hope for SimCity, but refused to buy the game without an always-offline mode. Someone else in my house brought it home, but it sits on the shelf uninstalled and unused. Even the person who bought it doesn't seem to want to install it, although I remind them of the game occasionally.

I'm finding it difficult to care enough for Sims 4 to even keep track of what EA has told us about it. The little that I know makes it pretty clear that EA isn't making the game for me.
Alchemist
#13 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 5:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by babele44
Hm, the last time I saw him in action he flirted with the now-widow and then insulted her home before going 'Poof!'. She was flirty and hot-headed, so it seems that he knew exactly what he was doing
But it's rare for him to hang around after he's completed his job, that's true.
Interaction with the Grim Reaper was greatly reduced by subsequent patches after people had begun to either move him in or at least get a Grim Reaper baby, the former of which, surprisingly enough, can break the game.


I find in my legacies, Grim always hangs around after reaping the soul he came for. Sometimes he's a bit of neat freak and cleans up toys hanging around. I've seen him pillow fighting with the kids, snapping pics of my celebrity Sims with his cell phone, playing video games, and even using the toilet. =D
Instructor
#14 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 5:42 PM
The problem is, the Sims franchise has been taken over by the suits. Understand the suits HATE computer games and think that gamers are a buch of juvenile losers. Suits are more interested in deadlines and budgets, than in turning out a quality product. For them, the Sims is nothing but a B-school project.

As long as the suits are running the show, there is no hope.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 5:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by High Plains Gamer
The problem is, the Sims franchise has been taken over by the suits. Understand the suits HATE computer games and think that gamers are a buch of juvenile losers. Suits are more interested in deadlines and budgets, than in turning out a quality product. For them, the Sims is nothing but a B-school project.

As long as the suits are running the show, there is no hope.


Can I get this sewn onto a pillow?

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Field Researcher
#16 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 6:42 PM
I have hope, because some things of TS4 sound really good. Hopefully they actually will be good. There are a lot of negatives I have heard but who knows, maybe the positive will outweigh them.

I will say this - TS4 doesn't seem as trainwrecky as TS3 is to me.
And all the maladies of the world burst forth from Pandora's cooch
#17 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 7:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by keeponsimmin
I will say this - TS4 doesn't seem as trainwrecky as TS3 is to me.
That's because all we have really seen is some CAS and very little gameplay. The rest of the information we have has been told to us, not shown. We still have no idea how far-reaching the emotional aspect will effect our sims, how whatever form of Story Progression works, etc.
Test Subject
#18 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 7:26 PM
The more I get to know about the magnificent <rainbow> EMOTIONS </rainbow> system, the more it seems to me that the system might be quite shallow and behaviouristic (emotional response based on external stimuli). There is hope if the whole emotion thing depends on relationships between the Sims rather than colourful objects.

We'll have to wait and see.
Field Researcher
#19 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 7:29 PM
EA is revealing S4 the way a burlesque fan dancer does a tease. So far we've seen a shoulder and an ankle, and some folks are throwing money at the stage and others want to burn the theater down. All we've got is a supposedly pre alpha version of CAS, with limited content so it wouldn't crash and burn at gamescom (the shoulder) and a demo of some sims at a party interacting (the ankle). The rest is pretty much speculation and rumor about just what is behind those fans. Am I ecstatic about what I've seen so far? No, not really. But I think I'll wait and see whether there is a naked Miss Universe or a chubby mustachioed man in a burka behind those fans before I make up my mind.
And all the maladies of the world burst forth from Pandora's cooch
#20 Old 2nd Sep 2013 at 8:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by anifromid2
EA is revealing S4 the way a burlesque fan dancer does a tease. So far we've seen a shoulder and an ankle, and some folks are throwing money at the stage and others want to burn the theater down. All we've got is a supposedly pre alpha version of CAS, with limited content so it wouldn't crash and burn at gamescom (the shoulder) and a demo of some sims at a party interacting (the ankle). The rest is pretty much speculation and rumor about just what is behind those fans. Am I ecstatic about what I've seen so far? No, not really. But I think I'll wait and see whether there is a naked Miss Universe or a chubby mustachioed man in a burka behind those fans before I make up my mind.
Ok, I laughed at this, and it is a pretty apt description. So, let's take that analogy a step further. Gypsy Rose Lee built her career out of NOT showing everything (You gotta get a gimmick!). She had fans salivating because she captivated her audience with a veil of mystery. If what they HAVE showed us was exciting (Oh, look how rounded that shoulder is!) and made us hungry for more (OMG Those ankles are HAWT!) I probably wouldn't mind the chubby Mr. Mustache so much (Well, at least he has rounded shoulders and hawt ankles).
Field Researcher
#21 Old 3rd Sep 2013 at 3:27 PM
Ahhh, but unlike Gypsy, eventually those fans will come down. If not before, then when the first people actually buy the game and post about their impressions here. I don't think it will be as good as Miss Universe, or as bad as Saddam Hussein. Maybe SimGuruGraham in a thong?
Alchemist
#22 Old 3rd Sep 2013 at 4:39 PM
I'm holding out hope but considering I already don't like the way the sims look I'm not expecting much. Pending more info it's looking like a no buy for me
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#23 Old 3rd Sep 2013 at 6:37 PM
So I have decided that there is NO HOPE what so ever. I absolutely LOVE the new Create A Sim and will miss not being able to use it, but nothing will make me want to buy the game now that they have decided not to include CASt. I have lost all desire to buy it and will NOT be throwing another chunk of money into the bucket of disappointment we now call Sims.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#24 Old 3rd Sep 2013 at 6:44 PM
BTW I think I know why the TS3 Sims feel so heartless. There is no surprise anymore. I remember back in the day when I would play the old games and my Sim will out of the blue do something I've never seen them do before. For Example I remember the first time I noticed my Sim say goodbye to her housemate when he went off to work. I didn't tell her to do that (there wasn't an option anyway), she never had before, and she only did a few more times after. I feel like we have too much control over what happens to them and they have predictable reactions to things. You always know what's going to happen and that takes the fun out of it.
Mad Poster
#25 Old 3rd Sep 2013 at 11:23 PM Last edited by gazania : 4th Sep 2013 at 2:54 AM.
I find myself wondering if the devs do indeed know the difference between a range of emotions .... subtle, over-the-top and everything in-between ... and the emotions we've seen so far in Sims 4. I know that some of that might be PR; after all, EA might need to go over-the-top and exaggerate emotions to attract attention (as I believe it did in at least one Sims 2 promo video) .... but in Sims 2, there were many subtle emotions along with the "Fire, fire!" and "You're cheating on me? Slapslapslap" interactions. So far, all we've seen in Sims 4 is drama worthy of a scene from Overacting Theater.

I took a quick snapshot of a father and his daughter in my Sims 2 game. He was abducted and ... errr .... apparently a PT had a bit of fun with him, but in-game, he shows a great deal of affection for his unexpected offspring The game does NOT have to have him make swooping arm movements and keep kissing her to show tenderness. It's in the way he holds her closely and how she looks comfy in his arms. In real life, it would actually look a little sweet (though admittedly in real life, there aren't too many white-skinned gothy people holding green toddlers with strange ears and shiny all-black eyes).

Hope you can see what I mean in this picture (hope I've figured out the spoiler tag; if not, I'll try again):



Random snapshot. No pose box and as you can probably see, no retouching. (This would hardly be considered an artsy Sims 2 picture, and entering it into a contest would be futile!)

The smile on the dad's face, the way his daughter places her arm on his chest and how he supports her back are examples of how I see subtle emotions in the game. And it makes no difference what color the walls are or what is hanging on them. He would be just as affectionate in a purple room with Justin Bieber posters plastered on the walls. Will Sims 4 be the same way? Will the devs remember that subtlety is sometimes best? Remains to be seen, I know,

I do wish there was a way to get Will Wright over to EA as a kind of muse/mentor/adviser, even if it's just a few times. Lure him with money or cookies, if need be!


(Edited because I apparently couldn't spell! )

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