The story that seems to keep surfacing is that the Sims 3 didn't work well on every computer on earth, so open world and CASt and graphics have to be sacrificed this time around to get a stable game that works on every PC, laptop, tablet and phone. Which I don't understand, but whatever. No, actually I do understand.

Just coming in to say that I'm no longer betting my house that the world will be closed. Rflong7 dismissed the information I posted as old and crinrict 'liked' a post stating they doubted EA would go back to a closed neighborhood and that it was a bad idea to start a closed world thread. Both of them were invited to Gamescom and seem supremely unconcerned with the possibility of a closed world even with EA's vague lot centric description on their website. So, yeah, no longer want to bet my house.

http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/711608.page

If I see the questions around opened or closed worlds as a simple matter of size of the playground, I don't want to go back to the smallness of TS1/2, where my playground was limited to one lot at a time, but I could accept to trade the large size of the TS3 worlds (where my playground is made of a hundred of lots and the landscape around them) for a medium size playground: sub-hoods.

Random ideas:

• I could see a sub-hood as a smaller but more detailed and lively community with a dozen of residential lots and another dozen of community lots.
• Sims can roam freely from one lot to another within the limits of this sub-hood.
• Several sub-hoods are connected together to form a world. When the active Sims want to visit another sub-hood, there's a loading screen [1]. Inhabitants from other sub-hoods could visit the one loaded (as passer-by, workers in local work places...).
• The public community lots, such as parks, library, etc, are not only opened but animated with the local residents in priority and when it makes sense (no kids during school hours for instance). But residents of other sub-hoods could also be seen where and when it makes sense.
• Shops are opened and interactive, local Sims can work there, but distant sub-hood townies too if there is a local workers shortage.
• Since the size of the loaded hood is much smaller than what we have now in TS3, there is less strain on the computer and even work places and schools could be at least partially opened.
• Every sub-hood could be built around a specific theme (residential suburbia dreamland, farmland/countryside, downtown...). Sub-hoods that are CPU and/or GPU intensive could be smaller (and use decorative buildings/props to pretend they are bigger), while sub-hoods that are less intensive could be much larger with a lot of natural space to explore.

[1] Any loading screen brings the question of time discrepancy. This has been the situation in the 3 games released so far. The more loading screens, the more the time flow is fudged.

Again, the size of the playground doesn't really affect how much we control our Sims or not. We just need options, loads of them.

Aging:
- The active household ages: yes / no.
- The inactive households age: yes / no.
- Advanced option: change this setting for specific households.

The same kind of more detailed options for the "story" progression: is it for all inactive households? What is allowed to progress without the player's control? Which households are excluded and for which points?
.

So I guess it's time now to mention that in of those German press preview articles that were posted here much earlier (I think it was PCGames) it was said that the world for TS4 would not only be big but actually much bigger. But as we things tend to become forgotten quite fast.

It says it's a bigger world, but does it say it's open?

No, it doesn't, IIRC. It went roughly along these lines: "one of the greatest innovations of TS4's predecessor was the big open world and EA promised us that this time it would be even bigger. But more on that later."

Well, I would have thought yesterday would have been better but today is good too. I looked but I can't find the posts you're quoting, do you have a link handy?

I shouldn't have rushed to believe the 'no open world' thing since nobody knows yet except EA and the yibsims.

I've just realised what I would absolutely love - a world that was treated like Sims 2 apartments (with Pescado's alfixes). You can view the entire world/apartment complex, you can see unplayed sims going to work, going to school, hanging out with each other, watching birds, but nothing majorly life changing is going on. You can even visit them. When you're not visiting them, their apartment is basically a rabbit hole - they go inside and vanish. But when you knock on the door and go in, you can interact with the household and all their stuff. But again, nothing majorly life changing happens until you actually change playable families.
So instead of one lot with four families all living there, make it one neighbourhood with as many families as there are spaces for lots. You can send your playable sims out anywhere, see them walk there, visit neighbours and eat their food. If that's open world, I want it.

I'm actually not convinced the worlds are open yet even with Rflong's post because I just can't get over the description that EA uses when describing the game in the Key Features section of their site. I mean, how weird is their description? If the world was this huge, open glorious thing why not put that in the description next to the pre-order button with all of the other features of the game?

"Vibrant Neighborhoods – Chose [sic] among brilliant and diverse lots for your Sims to live in. Vivid visuals bring your Sim’s home to life."

Lots and scenery to frame your lot is how I read that. Nothing about that says open world to me.

I don't think I'm gonna put off buying TS4 if there's a lot more things added to the game to compensate for a lack of a certain feature. I feel that for every item I might miss, there might be an item I love. You can't please everyone, I guess, so EA must be cherry picking who to cater to. Who knows, there might be something for everyone. This game just might be the ultimate box o' chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get.

Yeah, it seems purposely vague.

That's a marketing line. The exact same remark could have been made about TS3 before its release. You choose where your sim will live among a variety of of available, diverse lots (empty houses decorated individually, although not always tastefully), and filled with vivid colors and patterns (Even EA used CAST when making up the world home lots). There really is no way you can read open or closed world into that statement alone.

As of right now I'm not buying it anyway, but no open world would be just another reason not too. I'm not going back to the TS2 days of a child aging to an elder like his father because I forgot to play the father's house

Thats exactly why I want a story progression and open world. Its silly when my little sim grows up to an adult and some of his little friends remains child. Very silly at all.
That was something I didn´t like in Sims 2 (and I am a very big fan of Sims 2) and loved in Sims 3. I hope at least this two features remains on Sims 4

I think it was in one of these: http://www.pcgames.de/Suche/?strSearch=sims%204
I'm at work and can't go through them at the moment

I will still not write that I absolutely won't buy Sims 4. I'm waiting to see what else EA has to offer, other than emotions. Really ... I hope that and the sliders aren't the only carrots they're sticking out for us.

But for once, I feel a bit bad for EA. It really thought that Sims 2-ers would all flock to Sims 3 when it brought out the concept of open world and story progression. Instead, it drove a wedge between many Sims 3-ers (who, much to EA's delight, are a majority .... if they were a minority, EA would REALLY be in trouble) and Sims 2-ers (a smaller group, but still a sizable percentage of its users ... EA doesn't want to lose them while pursuing other Sims series).

My experience with Sims 3 was only on console, so EA didn't lose me entirely . I admit it was quite an experience when my Sim opened the door and wandered over to a community lot. It was quite an interesting feeling to see my neighbors and interact with them as I walked pass them. It was interesting to see my townie friends age with me. I can see the appeal.

But like others here, I have multiple households in my Sims 2 game. I LIKE my households. All of them. I like deciding when I open that neighborhood, "Do I play the go-getter lecherous business exec, the charismatic cult leader, the quiet teacher, the devoted family man or woman, the devious dancer or the eccentric artist? Is it time for the cult leader to move his abode and his multiple "wives" out of town? Just where do I want to put his commune?" As I understood it from the Sims 3 base game, you would have limited options where to put that cult leader's Utopian refuge. Or did that change? While Sims 2 still has limitations, I believe I have more options where to get that cult leader and his family away from prying eyes. I haven't counted recently in my custom neighborhood, but thanks to a camera mod that expands it, right now, even with my other lots, I still have about ten good sites where he could hide from society. Remember ... I'm looking for a more secluded site. I could add another entirely different neighborhood if I REALLY want him to hide, and his followers would have about twenty or more lots (I'm presuming it's a small neighborhood) to choose from as they expanded. (Just how many wives, other cult members and kids can I stick in one house? Even with expanded-family mods, that can slow down gameplay!)

Yes, you do have the ever-youthful townies walking around, but in my world, aging is not a concern. I age when I want and within limitations (no touching Mrs. C or the Charlatan!), whom I want. As long as they're playable characters, I can use a hack to select them and age them as they visit my household if it bothers me. Also, yes .... Free Time does give me the option to age someone with my Sim. I understand why no age progression is bothersome to some Sims 3-ers, but it doesn't faze me at all. I understand that is the trade-off for the variety I personally enjoy.

So how is EA going to make both groups happy? The traditional picture as I see it is that Sims 3 focuses on a small group of people and their lives as they make their way through their neighborhood, and with age progression, is more true to life. However, it means giving up the freedom to visit many community lots; hence, the rabbit holes. Sims 2 is broader, allowing players to play multiple families and lots and visit a larger variety of community lots, but lacks that more personal interaction of venturing outside your house, walking across the street, and visiting a neighbor without resorting to a loading screen. Sims 3 removes that "veil", so to speak. And aging can be a bit jarring in Sims 2 for many players.

Again. One series is NOT better than another. I have no interest in going that route, thanks. Each series has a different type of gameplay. That was my point.

But now, EA is in a bit of a hole. What can it give both groups ... make that all three groups (Sorry, Sims 1-ers ... you keep getting edged out, it seems) with Sims 4 that will amaze them and make them rush out to buy this game?

One thing I think many in BOTH Sims 2 and Sims 3 groups can agree: the carrots have to include more than "emotions" and sliders. I'm getting the feeling that EA's original carrot was the always-online play, but boy, did it make a misstep there. It's pretty significant that most people in BOTH groups don't want that. (Optional only. REALLY optional. No sneaky business, EA. Seriously. No.) I'm still interested to see what other carrots EA is trying to dig out and clean up for us.

I don't know why you feel bad for them - they made Sims 4 an MMO. I never saw anyone asking for that, even on the EA forum. That's why they're in the shit - if they are in the shit. They don't care if either group is happy obviously.

I'm glad that EA fixed that, at least. On console, the layout is pretty much the same as what the base game players experienced. I don't profess to have much knowledge of how EA expanded its community lots post-basegame Sims 3. I probably should have brushed up on that a little more. And one can argue that even in Sims 2, there were types of rabbit holes, such as workplaces and schools (though thanks to Simlogical, the schools can no longer be rabbit holes if a player desires).

I only feel a little bad for EA. Not THAT bad for them. Still trying to figure what exec thought that players wanted always-online. Whoever did should be working in the mailroom right now.

And I'm still trying to figure out how EA is going to attract members from both camps. Are we going to have open worlds on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?

The exec who decided about the MMO was probably listening to the general chatter - that PCs are dead and it's all mobile now and into the future. The design decisions for the game come, I assume, from the fact that it would be an MMO - no CASt, for example.
Somebody else said that they should have just gone forward with it and I agree.

Aww, thanks for trying even though you're at work. I never saw them before so the link is great. I skimmed through everything with google translate and didn't find what you and everyone else must have already discussed though?

Rosecity mentioning an MMO brought to mind World of Warcraft. The world is so low poly what if they decided to go that direction? The world itself is open meaning you can walk around it but other lots would be instances you have to zone into. That sort of scenario could possibly account for the survey option and the larger world your article described.

"Experience three worlds with a moderate amount of lots, where you have a quick initial load time, and have short loading screens when traveling within the world between lots."

I really doubt EA is getting rid of the open world. All Sims games since TS3, including FreePlay for mobile devices, has open worlds. Perhaps the reason it wasn't mentioned in press releases is because it's now considered a de facto standard of the Sims brand.

Oh, this wasn't discussed in particular. The thread where you posted the link to your scans of PCGames first was mainly about the general impression, but that's when I went to PCGames and must have seen this hint at bigger worlds. Come to think of it, it may actually be the video and not the text where this guy who also wrote the article talks about it.

But back on topic: every mention of the word "loading screen" makes me shiver. During the last 4 years the Sims Team has never managed to properly fix the import/export transitioning bugs that came with World Adventures and later with Generations, Simport and University Life. Should I really trust them to get it right this time? Every time a Sim leaves their homeworld is prayer time for them to arrive or come back in one piece, alive and with all pieces intact, or worse even, come back twice. Therefore I cannot join in the enthusiasm about this idea.

Open neighborhood is "meh" to me. I liked the idea of story progression, but loathed how it was executed, and now I'm not even so keen on the idea. Without story progression, I don't want universal aging. As for my sims going places without loading screen, sure that's nice, but it's no big thing to me. With the boosts libraries and gyms gave, I just wound up with my sims always going there to skill instead of skilling at home, so no real difference there. Clubs and bars don't really interest me. I like family life, the home, so the other stuff, while fine, wasn't a huge deal to me.

I would want a closed world. There is no way to have an open world without some sort of story progression (there has to be some game mechanism to control and age up the Sims the player isn't since the player can only control one house at a time, and if the player had to go around to each house to control and age the Sims, they might as well be playing a closed world like Sims 2). I hate the things Story Progression has done and want more control over what happens to the each of my Sim families. I play Sims 2 in rotation meaning going around to each house and playing for 3 or 4 days, so every ones age is in sync and no one stays eternally young.