Graham, can we have PAW?

You smelt it, you dealt it.

So I guess SmartSim will write proprietary data format with more in common with Edith's BHAVs than the C# we've been modding in TS3? Modders nightmare - cos with the BHAVs all that way back there was some help to get started from an actual employee (or was it an ex employee) of Maxis. Trying to work out the SmartSim behaviour file format from scratch could be tricky, unless there were a friendly SimGuru to give advice...

On the topic of the general game engine, how about running a competition for naming the game engine? Winner gets invite to the next event, or collectors copy of game or something? :D

Did someone say free stuff1?
AHEM
I dub the TS4 engine "Morning Star". Isambard Kingdom Brunel already nabbed Evening Star for a different kind of engine.

If the Sims 4 used the Glassbox engine, sims would have different jobs and houses every day.

Somebody enlighten me please. If 13 years ago, children, teens, YA, adults and elders were able to fall in love with TS1, why on earth does EA assume that children and teens today are so stupid they need a simpler game? On the contrary, they should assume their audience is more competent because they have grown with technology and using computers.


Then why do you keep making this game for children and teens who you assume to be too stupid to play any game that requires thinking?


Well, if you stop listening to the older audience they will leave you, or stay with a previous version of the franchise.

This criticism is not pointed towards Graham, but to EA in general and specially the producers who are so out of touch of what this game is about because they neither play it or understand the basic principle of what made this game great 13 years ago.

I do understand among the millions of players there are some who will have a hard time figuring out the UI or other parts of the game, but why is EA's objective to satisfy those players, not the ones who would gladly stick with franchise if it was treated right.

Actually, TS1 *was* a far simpler game. The only things you had to look out for on the UI were the 6 need bars and the cash balance. Somehow I found that left me far freer to actually play imaginatively! The pie menu IMHO has always been an intuitive and comfortable way to interact with the game. Increasingly I find myself putting off playing these days because I know a) by the time it's loaded I'll have probably lost the will to live (and I don't even have much cc!) and b) once I am in I am bombarded with things my sims want to do, things other sims think my sims might like to do, and 100 choices to make about which sim to help perform which personal development goal. Its just too hard work these days!

A few points...

• We're not making a game for children and teens. The Sims is for teens and up, and it'd be presumptuous to assume that the game is targeted just at teens due to specific pieces of content. More than nearly any other game I can think of, Sims is a AAA video game franchise that is built to appeal to players of nearly any age range.
• The idea that we're streamlining the UI because of your assumption of what we think of player's intelligence is completely baseless and incorrect. It has nothing to do with a person's intelligence, and everything to do with someones level of comfort with a game's graphical user interface. For people who don't play many video games, that just isn't something they encounter a lot of. It's an initial barrier to entry to players just getting into the franchise. If you had the chance to sit in on a focus test sometime you'd very quickly understand why it's important to us. If you've ever visited a video game forum in your life, then realize that our attention in that area really isn't directed at you. There are a large number of Sims players out there who play just The Sims and never visit a game forum or website, don't discuss it with their friends, etc. That doesn't make them any less important Sims players, and a more welcoming interface can help more of those people into the game.
• No matter your level of comfort with the game, a streamlined UI that retains the power of previous games in the franchise but is simply easier to use is better for everyone.

Then explain this little piece of work



Well, you don't see them making My Little Pony outfits for the avatars in GTA 5, do you?

http://images.littlewoods.com/is/im..._SP601_40_39DPW

As long as we're posting stuff packs, something tells me most teens don't particularly care about living out the nostalgia of eras that meant more to their parents. We could sit here all day and argue about specific pieces of content, but that would be completely pointless since the franchise is made for anyone who's a teen to a senior citizen.

I am not trying to put you on the spot but just what was a problem with the old UI, what made it uncomfortable for new players or people that just play The Sims? Are there anymore motive bars? If not, just how is color coded warnings about hunger, energy, hygiene a better solution? Why do we need a blaring text of "confident", "sad", "anger" when the sim's reaction would tell us how they feel? No one will be experienced when they start playing, that is all in the enjoyment of figuring out the game and the best way to play it. At least I thought it was.

I haven't seen anyone say the players that don't go into forums were any less important, but would love to know how you reached them and their opinions and it's not voiced anywhere. I am curious.

My guess is that that one probably was more geared towards the teenyboppers. However, there are a select few of us older people who actually like Katy Perry (and candy). I've been holding out till now but I must admit that I have a love-hate relationship with KPST. It speaks to the little girl inside of me while my grownup self rolls her eyes. And just because most of us long-timers dislike the content, should we completely ignore the tastes of the younger generation? The greatness of the Sims series is that there's a little something for everyone. We need to keep that in mind and if a certain amount of content doesn't appeal to you....save your money for a future release that you will want. Simple as that.




For what it's worth, the assumed UI for TS4 looks a bit complicated to me, not more streamlined. That said, however, I remember when the UI pics for TS3 were first revealed and how different they looked from previous games. I thought at the time that that UI looked complicated also, compared to TS2, but I bought the game anyway and the new UI grew on me. I have faith that the same will happen in regards to my present opinion of TS4. There are compromises that need to be made between the players and the developers as a means of satisfying all players' needs. As such, a player needs to make sacrifices on their part for other players who might have a different point of view.

I can't go into many details about The Sims 4's UI just because not only is there is plenty you all haven't seen yet, but the UI is actually changing quite a bit as we continue to refine it. Even what people saw at SimsCamp is significantly different in-game right now, so I'd just say look forward to seeing how things have changed the next time we show off the game, and continue to change up until its release date.

As for this specific part, it really goes back to those focus tests I mentioned. We run various focus tests around the world where we partner with market research companies to bring in those types of players I mentioned - the ones we don't normally reach or hear from in our Sims community. And that's not to say we only bring in those types of players... we look for a wide range of players who have various levels of experience with The Sims. Now personally, I'm not a big fan of using focus tests to determine what kind of content we're building for the game. What I do think focus tests are excellent for is usability testing... giving someone a piece of content or directions on what they should try and accomplish in-game and seeing if they're able to figure out how to do it. It gives us the opportunity to see exactly where players get stuck, what pieces of content they just never find, what they decide to never try because it intimidates them, etc. It can be frustrating to watch at times - things that I think make complete sense can become total road blocks to others. There are times when we point out how to do something in-game, and afterwards the person says they really like it and that makes a lot of sense to them now... but without us pointing it out they never would have gotten it on their own. By doing series of tests with things like that in mind we can start to hone in on how to better surface information and make a more intuitive UI without limiting the players who have a deep understanding of the game. The last thing I want to do is take away any power from the players. If you've ever seen me demo the game, it should be apparent that I really love the ability to rapidly jump around between what I'm doing in-game, using lots of hotkeys and subtle shortcuts in the UI to do things very quickly and efficiently.

Anyway, you're correct. Fans don't outright say that those players are less important, but that's because I think most people in the community tend to forget that those players even exist. The insinuation that it's a waste of time or even a detriment to try and rethink how players interface with a Sims game is realistically pretty exclusionary to a group of players that you just never hear from.

Agreed - it seems a lot more bitty to me. With TS2 UI (the one I'm most familiar with), you look at the bottom of the screen, not all over the place.

That is refreshing to hear because looking at the present pics of the UI kind of makes my brain want to explode.



About this: I completely see your overall point. However, at the same time, I would recommend not getting rid of features that might need a tutorial because those features actually add more challenge to the game, not to mention potential customization. (I'm thinking here of your tutorial on how to add houseboats to worlds in-game and in CAW.) Challenge is something that we've had since day 1 of the series and is, however frustrating, something that we expect in a life simulation game. Being that the trend in most video games nowadays is that they're being "dumbed down" to make things easier for the kiddies, I think our biggest fear is that the Sims series will be (or already is) following suit.
Back when I thought I wanted to be a video game designer, I took courses in game design and learned that one of the hardest things about making a game is trying to balance the level of difficulty to appease the potential players. You don't want to make it too hard to play, or people will get frustrated and not bother. Nor do you want to make it too easy, because the reason people play most games is for the satisfaction of knowing they've achieved something that made them use their brain to figure out.
IMO, the game is already fairly balanced in regards to difficulty, but is steadily tipping towards being too easy. (i.e. TS3 in relation to TS2)
So please don't worry about having to tell us how to do something in the game. Most times it's going to be a simple error or omission on my part (can't speak for anyone else) in regards to the steps needed to perform a task anyway, resulting in an "aha!" or a .

You are right, it's not fair to ask questions about the specifics, but I felt like others the Gamescon UI was not desirable at all. Thanks for letting us know that has been changed.



I love a challenge but I understand the process must include all types of players. I am only a Sims video game player for PC but don't feel the learning curve of this game since the beginning was too hard. I didn't partake the forums until after University for Sims 2 was released and still figured it out. I am not smart at all. Only came on the forums to get a solution why my game was corrupt in the memories are, but that is another story.

I do hope the hotkeys will continue in Sims 4. I don't think I can divorce my finger from the "zero" key. Pause baby, pause it!



Something I am always having to remind people on the official site, they think all players are posting there and we know it's not. I know because I know personally simmers in my area that don't go on the forums but registered at Sims3.com to get the freebies. That's because I told them.

As of now I am not interested in Sims 4 and I use to say I don't see myself playing the series based on what has been revealed. That was not fair, but I must say that Sims 3 (although I am still playing it) was a big disappointment from the releases and what was given in the game for interactions. That has left me wary. I have loads of mods to calm down the things I don't want (goal play) to hopefully gain what I do love and that is playing the families first, the collecting and goals are secondary. I really hope Sims 4 can be a game I will want to join in. I really do.

EDIT: I am very appreciative of your candid posts here. I really don't know how to express that to you.

Graham, I can picture how those focus group sessions play out, and I believe you are absolutely correct that keeping the game both engaging and approachable are absolute necessities in development. I would like to point out, based on my own experiences not only as a sims player, but someone with a little insight into creating a product, that providing the tools is one part of the equation. Training your users in the proper use of those tools is another. Making tools that are intuitive is important. It eases the learning curve, and generates good will with the user. Education is also important to make sure the user exploits the full capabilities of that tool.

One trend I've noted in game development in general, and in TS3 in particular, is how little education is actually provided. I'm not referring to helpful tutorials on the official forums, but rather, what was supplied with the game. The very brief user manual that came with the boxed version of the base game was phased out to no printed materials on what new features were provided in a new EP. The lessons that were available in game were, IMHO, superficial, and not helpful in exploring all the new goodies that came with each EP and sometimes even SPs.

I consider myself a reasonably proficient player. Yet I still learn new things the game can do, sometimes in game play, and sometimes in threads on this, and other, forums. If, after playing with this game for several years now, I'm still learning new things about it, there is no doubt as to the depth built into it. So perhaps in those focus groups it might be worthwhile to consider not only how to make the UI more intuitive, but consider mechanisms to provide better instruction of the user in how to get the most out of the tools you do provide.

This. A million times, this.

Even a small insert with a diagram of the UI, with labels as to what is what, would be a boon. Or if you are going to heavily advertise certain features for an EP, explain how to use those features. Everyone bought IP so they could finally play a mermaid. We had to figure out ourselves how to do that, however. SOME mystery is fun, since I understand people want surprises, but still...

But as for the UI, I never thought it was that confusing, especially compared to others. Even a person who never plays any other game than the Sims uses their computer for work, and school, and some of the programs they use are far more complicated than "which button takes me to buy mode?". Personally, one of the things I do with ANY game or program, is start clicking buttons just to see where they will take me and what they will do. I mean, they are there for a reason, right?

I get the concept of getting new players. I mean, they are future customers. But consider, how many new players who came to the game in Sims 2 and 3 were brought on by older siblings, parents, or friends who played the previous versions? How about the existing customers, who have been around since the beginning? It's a delicate balance.

By the way, when I say "you", I mean it in the generic sense, not aimed at anyone specifically. Graham, I don't know if you are the 'official' buffer-zone between the developers and the fans, or if it is something you took on yourself, but your input, even if it is sometimes not what people may want to hear, is always appreciated. It is nice to know that there is someone who can explain various decisions, debunk/confirm rumors, etc.

Thanks Eskie, I forgot about the need for a booklet like we use to get before in Sims 2. Been so long. I agree the lessons wouldn't do a thing to show a novice how to navigate over the game. I don't use it and never advised anyone to look at the lessons either. Here's to hoping the lessons will be more detailed and useful in Sims 4.

I agree with Eskie and ButchSim. Instead of simplifying and making the current fans disappointed, give us a user manual that explains stuff. This will satisfy both parties, and if somebody can't bother reading and doesn't understand what they are supposed to do then that's their problem. The whole franchise shouldn't be bowing down to those users who can't bother.

About the decades stuff, I never thought it was meant for older players, I thought it was created because retro is hip right now. Not that I mind it was created, I actually really like it and I'm glad it was made. I don't have it yet but it's on my list of things to buy.

i think that is pretty much true for all games. not all of the fans go on official forums..

about the manual, i agree that there should be one included in the game (box). everyone that needs help might not go and purchase the strategy/help guide.

and i also think that part of the fun in the ts3 base game was discovering things and finding things out for yourself. if you explore enough, you catch on. build mode.. buy mode. if i click this button i can see the whole town, etc.

I am 60, veteran hard core simmer, and I just bought Sweet Treats cos I liked the look of the stuff in it for my seaside resort that was made possible in IP. There are child sims, and sometimes I like to imagine the world through their eyes. To me, sims isn't a game, it's a doll house to play in with my imagination. It's not meant to be like GTA. If you want tough man stuff play GTA.

And anyway why have we turned this thread into yet another general rant? It could have been a great opportunity to talk technically about the game files and potential modding challenges. I was kinda hoping Graham might ask his bosses if he's allowed to give hints about data formats to help with making modding tools.

oh shit, i'm excited for gta 5 all over again lol

I think it's absolutely FANTASTIC that they're polishing the UI. A user-friendly graphical interface has nothing to do with dumbing things down, but it's expected nowadays.

Sims 1 - Comic Sans. Enough said.
Sims 2 - Better. Much clearer and no unnecessary BS going on.
Sims 3 - AN EXPLOSION OF SHIT ON MY SCREEN. Who the heck did the GUI for this game? That person should really be doing something else, so far away from interaction design as possible. I mean CAS?! The menus?! Jikes!
Sims 4 - from what I've seen, they slimmed it down, made it more intuitive. I hope this is what Graham means when talking about making the UI better. Cause ts3 was a joke.

What's the issue with Comic Sans? It's got to be SOME kind of font.

And I think your are exaggerating a bit with the "explosion of shit on my screen". Until this thread, I've never heard a peep about the UI for Sims 3. Not saying everyone liked it, but if it were such a big deal, you'd think people would have made a bigger stink about it.