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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 12:30 AM
Default Tips for STARTING a self-sustaining 'hood?
Ok, so, I've seen a couple threads on MTS in which people brainstorm good ideas for self-sustaining hoods.

BUT, I've never attempted one before, and I'm looking for tips for starting them.

How do you stimulate the economy in the beginning?
How many sims/families should you start with?
How do you get variation within your families? (I'm having a problem right now where I can't really come up with good ideas for personalities and whatnot.)
What are your must-have buildings in the beginning?
What are your must-have mods?

I'm currently working with one sim and his cat, Lovely. He's a farmer and fisherman. I've just moved in another family, a husband and wife, and I expect them to get pregnant soon. But obviously that's not enough, and I'm a little bit stuck on what they should do as far as careers go.
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Theorist
#2 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 1:33 AM
You'd need to have an imbalance somehow, to get an economy going. Perhaps one family has bees on their lot and could trade the honey for fish? For a self-sustaining hood, I'd have them mostly run businesses/barter/swap services and such until the structure of the hood is such that it could support a more standard career. (Does that make sense outside my head?)

I believe @joandsarah77 has a system where she makes NPCs like the maid look like her sims who are working as maids, so that when the family hires a maid, it looks like they've hired the playable. Unless her system is to teleport them in and then pay them with christianlov's wallet, and it's somebody else who does the making-over-NPCs thing. Her system's a good one, whichever it is. Jo, can you clear that up for me?

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Needs Coffee
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#3 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 2:08 AM Last edited by joandsarah77 : 5th Jun 2015 at 3:22 AM.
There are varying degrees of how a self sustaining or integrated hood is played. Some people go all out and keep spread sheets, work out tax percentages, the works. Others do less. I think I am somewhere in the middle. I have fairly simple rules and don't do taxes.

Most of my families get a tiny house and take out a loan to buy a business. A few have homes which are the business, like my fire station. Those tend to be more expensive and I use the mortgage shrubs so my sims can afford them. The mayor I start up with one motherlode. The way I see it my town isn't an island, it's just a small town in a State someplace, so I allow the outside world to bring in money. A totally closed community would be rather hard to play. At the same time you don't want the majority of money to be coming from nowhere.

Money from outside- I allow some sims to have car pool jobs. In my mind they are leaving their town for work further away, people do that.
Money from Books- Many of my sims write 'novels', one who owns a restaurant is allowed to write restaurant guides, my journalist is allowed to use Monique's computer to write articles. Again I see them doing this and getting paid by some large publishing company outside of my little town.
Money from paintings: If sims are really poor I allow paintings to be sold to the sky. Not very true to life.
Money from busking- play for tips.
Money from businesses. Because in the beginning there is limited cash and many sims with loans this can be hard. That other money supplements the town and keeps the shops turning over money. Some bushiness are allowed government funding, meaning I allow them to take the money perks. For example the police station, the fire station and the post office. Places like the cafe do not.
The school teachers get money directly from the mayor. Right now he is having trouble paying.
The repairman and maid I allow an NPC job and money directly from playable sims via Christianlov's wallet controller.

I started with 13 couples, added in two brothers as fishermen and now 1 single sim as a house parent to the new teens boarding school. Not really a boarding school as it only takes 6, but it's away from home and they do sleep there during the week. I wanted plenty of babies, but not too huge a town. I made that mistake once before and this time the numbers seem good. The rotations have gone by quickly and now the first children are just turning teen. I use a double aging mod. Every sim I made had a reason for being there. I base their personality somewhat around their job or role in the community. So a mayor should be outgoing and well spoken and smartly dressed; or that is my vision of a mayor. My repair man is more rugged with tinkering as a hobby and a more casual way of dressing and is also a bit slobby. The kind of guy whe thinks nothing of bring motorcycle parts inside on the kitchen table. A couple just started out as a spouse but I knew jobs would be opening up for them. The minsters wife is the towns baby sitter, the Dr's partner is a waiter at the owned restaurant. My Dr has an up do and dresses smartly. Nearly forgot I made a pair of sister as YA in the main hood. I started them as independent teens but changed them just recently. One works at the cafe the other at the library. It takes mods to do this of course.

My must have to start my town
Services:
Police Station (residential business)
Fire Station (same)
Boarding house -This is where all sims get placed first. I set them up with skills as I don't think adults should start with no skills, doesn't some realistic. I set their hobby, make sure their perks are ticked, and let them get to know some other sims. I normally have them stay there 2-3 days.
Bank (community- owned) The bank sells gold and certificates. Other sims can use this as investments.
Post office (community- owned)
Farm
Grocery store (community- owned, run by farm couple)
Restaurant (community- owned)
I'm sure I am forgetting some. I added the cafe, library, salon/clothes shop a little bit afterwoulds.
I also have a few unowned lots, like a play ground, a couple of beaches and a bowling ally.

The School is a simlogical prep school which I see as the towns small gvt run local school. This is a residential lot where the teachers live. This came later once there were kids. No point paying teachers for nothing.


Mods, I have a LOT of mods to make my community work how I want it to.
Must have is
Monique's computer and mortgage shrubs
Sim blender to set what job you want them to be.
Simlogical school sign to stop them going to said jobs, unless you want them to go.
Christianlov's wallet Controller
His transport mirror for moving sims around. EG toddler to baby sitters, sim to the clinic.
Sim manipultor to set skills. (no more than 5 in any section) Change zodiac if needed for partner.

Then each type of business has it's own cc and mods.

Didn't see your post esme as I started this ages ago. I've been doing other things while I put it together.
That is Jessa who does sim surgery. My hood is a bit too new for maids yet, but in my larger old hood I would use the transporter mirror to bring my maid to the lot and pay her via the wallet controller. I never used maids hired over the phone or nannies. I will be doing some though on the fire person once I get a female fire fighter to replace the female NPC one. I can't do sim surgery now as my playable fire fighter is male.

It's your hood and you decide the rules and how integrated you want it to be. I started my farm with fishing as well, but branched out so that the fishermen were separate, they also own a fish store. At some point someone else will own the grocery store and the farm will just farm. Less sim means a wider interpretation of what they do, more sims means you can narrow down what they do. But a good way to start is think about what every small country town has and that is basic services, a pub and a school. if you need a primary school teacher make a sim for that. Set their level and use the job stopinater to keep them there. They are an elementary teacher, not a step on the way to education minister or whatever else is on the maxis list unless you want them to. if they move on from being a primary school teacher who is going to take that job? The jobs and businesses are to run your town not just a job to give them sims money.

I forgot to add, my new town doesn't have townies. if you have plenty of townies your economy isn't closed and won't face quite the challenges of having no townies while also paying back loans. I just recently made my self two tourists (townies) now that I feel the town might attract people. No one wants to go visit a one horse place. I can see someone stopping on there way for a coffee or staying a few days at the boarding house to go fishing.

You might also want to give them custom LTW. That is decide what their life time goal is and write it in their bio. A small town can't have 5 chief of staffs, only one until one retires.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#4 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 3:59 AM
You're my hero, Jo.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#5 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 4:18 AM
Lol. aww *takes a bow* This is my favourite simming topic and you know how I love to talk post, so feel feel free to ask questions.

I was posting fast on that first post, as I was trying to get some other stuff done at the same time. So sorry for some of the garble and typos.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 4:22 AM
DEAL.

Did you make a list of job ideas and make your sims based on those? And then match their personalities accordingly?
I'm worried about not having enough variation amongst my sims and getting bored with the neighborhood. And I don't want that to happen if I'm going to put in a decent amount of work to get it up and running.
HOW DO YOU KEEP FROM GETTING OVERWHELMED BY ALL THOSE SIMS? I WOULD LOSE TRACK.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#8 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 4:31 AM Last edited by joandsarah77 : 5th Jun 2015 at 7:16 AM.
Yes, I do have a list of jobs. Well it's only 13 families -unless that is many for you? My last hood had about 40 to start with, which was why it got out of hand.

Only I have to go now, darn it, but I will be back later. :D

I am back.

I make the sim fit the job. So job spot first and then a sim created for it. I don't create a sim and then wonder what to do with them unless my dice rolls up someone rather good. So for the fire station, which is one of my first lots, my fire fighter has plenty of active points and his hobby is fitness and I made him study fire safety. He has a drivable fire truck on the driveway and goes to a custom fire fighter career. http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=261722 The shop at his home sells books he has written on fire safety, one is for children called "Smoky The Llama" and the other is for adults "Drop and Roll" (needs sellable novel mod) he also sells toy fire trucks and smoke alarms of different kinds (I like to try and sell stuff sims can use)

I find 13 couples quite small. I have no townies so I see a lot of these playables at all of my lots. One way to keep them straight is to give the sim a job so you can easily check their employment section. If you never want them to go off to work you just use the Simlogical sign. You can make it look like a bush and forget about it. Also jot things down in their bio's. Recently my farmer's son turned teen and rolled a want to be captain hero, so I jotted that down in his bio as I could do with a lower level police officer. So far I only have one who is going up the ranks and the one NPC. Then one of the girls who teened has always been sporty so I thought she can do something in that field. I might have her open some kind of sporting grounds or even a gym. I haven't decided yet. It is a little different with your born in sims, but if your town starts small there are heaps of jobs or different business types your born in sims can do or open. I have a number of empty shops just waiting. There is an ice cream parlor, pizzeria, baby shop, toy shop, cemetery, a gift shop, another restaurant is needed. Upstairs in the town hall is an empty court house in need of a judge. Also I will change a sims hobby if I need to. Another thing I will need is a recycling shop. I haven't put the rule in yet since the town is new, but back in my large hood sims were not allowed to delete things for money, they would take them to the recycling center and get back a small sum for them and then they would be resold at cheap.

Start small with just the basics.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Instructor
#9 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 8:17 AM
How do you stimulate the economy in the beginning?
I would either have sims exporting goods and services on occasion (through selling through buy mode or to townies or having careers) or if you're playing an independent country print more money (motherlode) and trade goods and services between people to get the money flowing.

How many sims/families should you start with?
Generally whenever I do something like this I start really small like 5 families without townies and maybe less than that if I allow tourists in the hood. It sounds like nothing but I prefer to add new blood as I go along. If you're playing without townies you may want to have a potential spouse for nearly everyone so they all have a chance of getting married etc. If you don't want to add in new sims at all you need at least 4 couples to start with and this will involve a lot of 2nd cousin marriages. Otherwise pick how many you're comfortable starting with.

How do you get variation within your families? (I'm having a problem right now where I can't really come up with good ideas for personalities and whatnot.)
This is exactly why I like adding sims as I go. In my current hood I started with three families yup just three each with a small backstory, while I am allowing Tourists (townies) I only have four households and am only just adding a fourth. The new sim is needed to run the school now that I have a few families with several kids.

What are your must-have buildings in the beginning?
Depends on the families I'm starting with. Generally unless I'm allowing groceries or everyone grows their own food you pretty much need to have a farmer's market/grocery store. I normally stick a rack of clothes in the corner and sell all kinds of odds and ends there as well.

After that I tend to build a park or two and maybe a community centre for weddings etc. Once I have someone to run them I'll be starting a firestation, police station, a tip/second hand store & a tavern. I'll add more as I have sims to run them and the community grows a bit. At the moment it's only a tourist destination because of the cracked pirate ship aliens dropped on the side of a mountain. (True story it was the only tourist attraction I could think of for such a small community). I'll probably build a small aquarium/aquatic research centre now that a married in townie works in oceanography.

A school is next on my list. Since I started doing player run schools I won't let kids go to school unless there's one in the hood and I find home schooling in all households tedious so as soon as I hit 5-10 kids (depending on the number of families) and it looks like kids will keep trickling through school (so it's not like once these kids graduate the next kids through will be there kids or anything) I'll build one.

What are your must-have mods?
Other than the ones to stop my game imploding? Uhh I like having the custom NPC careers so sims have jobs that make sense for example it doesn't make sense to have dozens of sims in business but the hood needs maids to clean the holiday accommodation. I'd definitely suggest mods to keep your townie population in check. I think the best way to find other mods you need is to play and see what's missing.

Visit my ToT challenge here.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#10 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 12:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by esmeiolanthe
I believe @joandsarah77 has a system where she makes NPCs like the maid look like her sims who are working as maids, so that when the family hires a maid, it looks like they've hired the playable.

That's possibly me since that's what I do with all the NPCs in Little Carping - with the actual sims working in corresponding jobs. I use SimSurgery to copy over the appearance.

For me creating something like a hood, the first thing I need is an idea of what the hood is about - Polgannon was like that (though it's not a self-sustaining hood) and so was Little Carping originally, Rummilee too though that has long since disappeared. To make it, I had to have the idea first (a murder mystery in Polgannon's case). Without that, I don't think you can go on to make any other decisions if you want to feel the hood is convincing as you play it later.

Now stop asking questions because as I typed that, the thought went through my mind 'maybe I can remake Rummillee as a medieval dynastic power grab story.' I just finished Polgannon and that took nearly 4 years.

Edit to add: one thing you can do to get variation: example in Polgannon I very deliberately used all the possible personality things available - aspirations for example. In Polgannon no two character share exaclty the same aspiration type and I have (nearly) made it so that there is one sim with each possible aspiration combination alive in the neighbourhood and is playable. I have an image somewhere of my working paper on this. I'll see if I can find it.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
#11 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 2:21 PM
Getting variety in a neighborhood is simple if you think of them as individual people rather than as strategic pieces.

When building in CAS, rotate through the available skintones, eye colors, etc. Make sure you have one example of each zodiac sign (if the starting roster is big enough) or at least one for each element. Ditto aspirations; a neighborhood too small to hold at least one iteration of each aspiration is too small. Fiddle with the personality points rather than taking the default personality for the sign. Use templates you don't normally use; change parts of templates you wouldn't normally change. If you tend to default to certain aspirations for certain personalities, mix it up - the outgoing Knowledge sim, the shy Romance or Popularity sim, the lazy Fortune sim, the serious Pleasure sim, the grouchy Family sim, all have their places in the world.

Write a bio for each person and each family . Ask yourself why each sim is in this neighborhood rather than being somewhere else. These reasons needn't be the same for every member of a family - if the father is here idealistically wanting to "get back to nature" and the mother is here because she's always wanted to be a farmer and the uncle is here because he's emotionally dependent on his big sister, and the kids are here because their parents dragged them kicking and screaming, then there's some inherent tensions in the family and that's always more interesting. Also, look at anyone with extreme personality points and ask yourself what that means. Does the 0-active point sim have a chronic illness? Is the 10-point-active one actually ADHD? Is the "shy" sim neuroatypical in a way that makes casual contact with strangers awkward? How would these possibilities be modeled in your playstyle for that character? Does it affect why they're here, now, in this place among these people, doing the work they do? Don't force yourself down any of these roads, but keep them in mind and be prepared to run with any ideas that intrigue you.

Construct each family differently so that the town has a realistic mix of single (including divorced and widowed) and married people, heterosexual and queer, all the age groups, and a few animals. Consider using editing tools to give random skill points, vary ages (so that not everybody ages up at the same time), and otherwise create minor random variations.

Play each family differently - i.e. have completely different rules and restrictions for each household. If household A belongs to a religion that doesn't allow birth control, but one member is a Romance sim; if sims in Household B are hedonists and only skill when they roll a want to do it; if Household C consists of a single person who is functionally illiterate and can't read for skill points; if the ADHD person in Household D isn't allowed to lock wants; if Household E must spend money as fast as it's earned (ending each day with under $10 simileons in the kitty for example) while Household F can only spend money for new things on Friday (representing "saving up" for large purchases); if Household G revolves around the family business while Household H revolves around making social connections - then you'll be doing too many different things during your rotation to get bored of any of it.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#12 Old 5th Jun 2015 at 2:50 PM
Yes, extreme personalities produce more of the behaviours associated with the characteristic and govern the sim's behaviour more strongly. If I want mean sims, I make them very grumpy 1, 2 or even 0 points in nice, OCD/nit-picky clean freaks get 8, 9 or 10 points.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 6th Jun 2015 at 7:32 PM
Update on Self-Sustaining Foodstand:

Sales not going well.
Crates of tomatoes going to the two townies I placed in the 'hood and not the residents.
I expect famine by winter.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 6th Jun 2015 at 8:22 PM
Get a hack--visitor controller or Pescado's business runs you suite (the part you want looks like a box) and ban the townies.

If you have business runs you the default setting is no-playable, I believe, and you have to change it.

Or you could have the townies move in. Self Sustaining hoods usually don't have townies, do they?

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#17 Old 6th Jun 2015 at 10:55 PM
It depends what kind of self sustaining you want, do you have no outside contact? When I start the grocery store I have both the buy catalog produce bins and what my farm can grow. I figure one new farm is not enough, so they are still getting imports in from somewhere else to fill the games grocery bins. Allow outside input as you need to until things are up and running. If the community is closed because they are on an island which is hard to get to, have them do a trip to the mainland. I had a type of grass roots place like that and my rule was they needed to go over to the mainland for any kind of supplies, the 'mainland' was an attached custom holiday hood. So going there wasn't a simple undertaking and really felt like a long trip. Unless your place is post apocalyptic and there are no other humans, have them make a trip or import in.

Also are you using 'realistic harvest'? Get that as it makes a world of difference. What kind of decent orange tree yields 12 or whatever number Maxis deemed as a yield?

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#18 Old 6th Jun 2015 at 10:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
If the community is closed because they are on an island which is hard to get to, have them do a trip to the mainland. I had a type of grass roots place like that and my rule was they needed to go over to the mainland for any kind of supplies, the 'mainland' was an attached custom holiday hood. So going there wasn't a simple undertaking and really felt like a long trip. Unless your place is post apocalyptic and there are no other humans, have them make a trip or import in.

I really like this idea! Using a custom holiday 'hood instead of a shopping district or downtown is a great idea - makes it feel more "long-distance". Bah, Jo and the OP of this thread, this is making me want to try a self-sufficient 'hood (again)! :-P
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#19 Old 6th Jun 2015 at 11:07 PM
You know you want to laura!

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Forum Resident
#20 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 12:38 AM
My farmer is always the backbone of my hood. At first I didn't allow anyone but playables to buy his crops, because I only put them up for sale after he closed shop. This way, the playables could visit and get them the next day. It also made them hard to crops go further, cause everyone could buy his stuff then give them back (as gifts) to him to resell again. The system of keeping them in a lock store room for special playables wasn't fun so didn't last long.

But all of that was too much planning and fighting, so then I downloaded crops from "Plumbob Keep"... quick growing plants, diverse crops and sellable in the farmers organic store. No problems with famine anymore.

http://www.medievalsims.com/forums/...hp?f=240&t=6903
http://www.medievalsims.com/forums/...hp?f=240&t=7116

As soon as I fix my stupid bug ridden hell hole of stupidly downloaded custom content hospital. I gonna set up some rules about who can bake what depending on what type of crops they've picked up. Right now.. no fantastic baked goods are being produced for sale, and therefore parents are frightened to invite the headmaster over.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#21 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 12:41 AM
Use a heap of the special greets on him as soon as he steps out of the car, high five, kiss kiss darling (ick I know) then they can get in with a plate of spaghetti.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Forum Resident
#22 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 12:56 AM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
Use a heap of the special greets on him as soon as he steps out of the car, high five, kiss kiss darling (ick I know) then they can get in with a plate of spaghetti.

Got to admit, I make up rules to grow my hood. It's not that I can't get in, but the town has to meet my requirements. Without farmer, no fancy bakery shops, then no headmaster, so no self-sustained playable schools...So need food shops before schools can begin.

Got a private detective now, so can open police station, criminal areas like warehouses and docks, then next prison... likewise need hospital as part of the medical path (hospital provides nurses, doctors, scientists and security guards). Now got medical clinic open, and soon as hospital is working can start thinking about baby/toy and gift shops.

Aint nobody sneaking into my posh playable school on a plate of spaghetti. Headmaster wants $5,000 and organic handmade cake or turkey.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#24 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 2:32 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Diovanlestat
Aint nobody sneaking into my posh playable school on a plate of spaghetti. Headmaster wants $5,000 and organic handmade cake or turkey.


Lol fair enough. I like to mention it as many people don't know how many schmooze points those special greats give. I even had the Newson's in a trailer park get in, back when I used the games private school. These days I run my own prep school with the Simlogical school system.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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