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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 6th May 2016 at 10:22 AM
Default Beach Babes 7? - Maxis bikini bottoms as separates for TF
My new proposed upload is a bit different to the house I uploaded already. It's what I see as a logical continuation of Risé_sims Beach Babes series. What she describes as the last of the series, Beach Babes VI - Maxis bikini bottoms as separates for AF, comprises all the Maxis base game bikini and tankini bottoms as Everyday separate bottoms. It seems logical to me to continue the series by doing the same for teens. Risé_sims has already done the teen bikini tops as separates in part IV of her series.

Anyway I've converted 3 of them so far. I think there are about 14 in all and it only takes a few minutes in Body Shop to do each one. I am using the Teen Female version of an Invisible Clothe Set by Drachenfels on our sister site as the basis for the recolour, but it uses a base game Maxis mesh, so it should work OK for everyone. These are the three I have done so far:

So may I ask, do you think this would be OK as an upload to MTS? I feel it really belongs here as a extension to Risé_sims' collection. I know it's a bit risqué, but there are plenty of equally risqué downloads on MTS already. And the Maxis bikini bottoms are less revealing than many CC ones. I don't think I can be accused of sexism; if you've seen any of my Sim pictures, you know that my male Sims often wear equally revealing outfits!

I may need further advice on the pictures for the upload. I understand that MTS doesn't like Body Shop/CAS pictures, but (because of my computer) I play with low-resolution graphics and think I actually see my Sims clothing better in Body Shop and CAS than I do in the actual game. Also I think it might be an idea to use pose boxes (I've never used them) for the actual upload pictures. But I can deal with such details later. First of all I'd like to hear what you think of the general idea of this upload.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
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The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#2 Old 6th May 2016 at 12:54 PM Last edited by maxon : 6th May 2016 at 7:57 PM.
I don't see what's risque about it - it's not as if you're showing any nudity after all. What would concern me is the quality of the graphics. In particular, that picture is far too fuzzy. Did you take it with the in-game camera? As you note, you play with low graphics - it's just not possible to tell if the textures are of an acceptable quality from that. You'd need an external screen capture programme I think (Fraps is used by many though there are others) and to turn your graphics up to full, at least while you are making and taking pictures of the skins. You'd also need to be a lot closer to them.

As far as the mesh is concerned, if you are making the skins on a custom mesh, the game will link the skin to the mesh and it won't work on the EAxis version - you'd have to remake them for that. Not necessarily a problem, just a warning there.

Edit: oh wait, I think I misunderstood you there about the mesh - if it's an EAxis mesh and invisible recolour, that should be fine (as long as you get the alpha channel right).

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#3 Old 7th May 2016 at 11:28 AM
Thanks Maxon. I meant to get back to you sooner, but found that I had to build (or at least rebuild) a house for my test Sims. (My concern for the wellbeing of my Sims means I won't let even test Sims live on an empty or inadequate lot! I don't even know how to use the MaxMotives cheat.) By calling them "risqué" I was thinking of the age of the girls, and that making bikini bottoms into Everyday items would mean them wearing something very revealing all the time. I think not a few Real Life parents would have nightmares if their daughters left for school in the mornings dressed like that, and I'm aware from our recent age survey that members here are more likely to be parents of teenagers than teenagers themselves.

Anyway I've taken some larger pictures. I took them in my AGS base game to test that they work without having Drachenfels's invisible lower body in my downloads folder, and they do, so clearly the invisible clothing is using a base game Maxis mesh. I don't think Maxis actually use that mesh for any of their clothing, so I'd be fascinated to know how Drachenfels made an invisible recolour, but I'm glad he did, because it gives me something I can use the make this visible clothing with! These are the pictures I've taken with the help of my models Samantha and Alison Swanston:


As you can see the graphics quality is a bit disappointing, and it's hard to tell if the textures are really up to the mark. As these are really unaltered Maxis textures, I can't help feeling that it must be the fact that my onboard graphics chip forces me to play on low resolution graphics. (In fact I've never changed the graphics setting since I installed TS2 in 2012.) I wonder if you (or anyone else with a decent graphics card) might download the two bikini bottoms in my pictures, and test that they look better in your game. They should be as good as the original Maxis bikinis from which they're taken. If they're not, there's no point in taking this further, and I'll just use them in my own game. If they are of Maxis quality, then I still have the problem of taking decent pictures. I wonder if it would be safe enough (and if it would work!) to temporarily turn my graphics settings up, just to take still pictures. The only alternative I can think of is to ask someone to take the pictures for me.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  TwoBikiniBottomsForTF-to-test.zip (101.3 KB, 15 downloads) - View custom content

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#4 Old 7th May 2016 at 12:24 PM
I have the adult versions, mostly if sims are going to the beach or pool- which since it's beach hood they do quite often, then if they go shopping ect after that it seems quite normal. Leaving the house in the city to a grocery shop dressed like that would be a bit odd.

I'll take a look tomorrow.

I can take better pictures for you Andrew. Not that I am any great shakes with photo taking or editing. I use Tab, point and shoot a Fraps picture which I change to a jpeg. So it would not be anything fancy but I could do it on a beach or at my pool.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#5 Old 7th May 2016 at 3:41 PM Last edited by maxon : 7th May 2016 at 7:44 PM.
I'd be happy to help if I can though I'm so busy at the moment that some days I only come here once for a couple of minutes and haven't fired up the game for a while. But I see the ever dependable Jo has also volunteered so between us, I think we can work it.

Regarding the risque thoughts you're having (ha) - as they're EAxis textures, I really don't see why that should be a problem. And if some people find them offensive or too much for their tender sensibilities, they always have the option of not downloading them. I don't think it would be an issue on this site for two reasons: that they are just EAxis textures and are already in the game anyway and, second, this site is predominantly run (even now I think) by British/European people - we ain't quite so hung up about bodies. I get why there's a ban on obvious nudity and obvious sexual content with younger people/teenagers coming to the site but there are some pretty adult things on here nonetheless.

Edit to add: I DL and had a quick look in Bodyshop - the lighting is always so awful in BS and the POV is not near enough but I can confirm they work on EAxis meshes and I think you can see that the skins are going to be ok for quality - not a great picture but the textures look clear enough on that. If I get time, I'll fire up the game and have a look at them in proper game lighting.

Edit 2: Some in game shots. From the close ups, you can see the textures are not as good as some fan-made ones but I think that's EAxis not you.
Screenshots

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#6 Old 9th May 2016 at 2:52 AM
Thanks Maxon. Those pictures look much better than mine. It looks like the poor quality in mine is just due to me playing with low resolution graphics.

I have now converted all 13 of them into bottom separates. I have however run into a problem with bump maps. Of the Maxis base game teen bikinis, the single colour bikinis with the black piping don't use bump maps, but all the others do (i.e. the high leg black bikini, the high leg tie-side bikini and all 6 tankinis). I had a look, and my separates are not using the bump maps. I copied all the bump maps from the Maxis bikinis to the appropriate new project folder, renamed them from body~stdMatNormalMapTextureName.bmp to bottom~stdMatNormalMapTextureName.bmp, and hoped that Body Shop would pick them up and use them. It didn't!

If my separates don't use the bump maps, then I reckon my textures won't be as good as the Maxis originals, even though it's unlikely I'll be able to see any difference in my own game at the graphics resolution I use. I've tried looking for a tutorial here on adding bump maps to clothes, but the main tutorial on the subject (by Nebulosa) appears to have ben deleted by its author. (Why do people do that?) I've opened the package file for one of my separates in SimPE (the package file inside the project folder as used by Body Shop), and I think I see what I have to do:
1) Back up all the relevant files. (Done that!)
2) Use SimPE to open the package file for the new separate in its Project folder.
2) Clone the existing TXTR record.
3) Import the bump map (bottom~stdMatNormalMapTextureName.bmp)) into the new TXTR record.
4) Rename the record to match its filename.
5) Click on Fix TGI. (I think this gives the new record a valid Instance number.)
6) Change the format to "Raw8Bit".
7) Commit.
8) Save and close SimPE.
9) Open Body Shop and run the Export to your game procedure.
10) Test that the new package file is using the bump map.

Does anyone with experience of Body Shop creation know if I'm right, or should I take this to the Body Shop forums?

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#7 Old 9th May 2016 at 3:16 AM
I bet maxon will know about the bumpmaps. I think you could probably just remove them since it's not really an item that needs a bumpmap.

Sorry I forgot to install them before loading up Andrew. I have a touch of the flu and only thought about my entry for the contest of which I am slowly taking and editing photos for. Since I am in AGS I might still have time later today to install and reload your items- thats if you want me to have a look?

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#8 Old 9th May 2016 at 2:01 PM
Well, bump maps don't always show if you're playing with low resolution and low end video cards - if you post the files, we can have a look at them both in BS and SimPE.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#9 Old 9th May 2016 at 3:59 PM
I tried doing it in the way I suggested in my last post and it didn't work. When I clicked on the Export to Game option in Body Shop, it overwrote the package file I had edited with one not using the bump map. It might work better if I add the bump map to the package file after finishing work in Body Shop and exporting to the game. I'll have to try that.

[LATER]
I did try it. Editing the file in SimPE to add the bump map increased its size from 69 KB to over 1 MB. Editing it in Wardrobe Wrangler to change the file tip description threw an exception and brought the file size right back down to 71 KB. If I re-open the file in SimPE, the bump map is still there. The garment shows up and can be used in both Body Shop and CAS. I haven't tried it on a living in-game Sim yet. But whether it's really using the bump map I can't really tell with my graphics.

I attach two versions of the red tankini bottom, one with the bump map and the other without. Maybe you could test them and see if you can see any difference with high resolution graphics. There may be problems with the bump map version as I was really guessing how to import it.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  RedTankiniBottomsForTF-to-test.zip (115.7 KB, 9 downloads) - View custom content
Description: Red Tankini Bottoms for TF to test. One has the bump map; the other hasn't.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#10 Old 9th May 2016 at 7:15 PM
When importing to SimPE it will import the texture uncompressed and you do see increases in file size like that. WW automatically compresses when you save so you do also see the file size drop - often quite considerably. I suspect certain CC makers import in SimPE (better control over the quality of the texture that way if you use the DDS utilities) but don't compress the file afterwards. You can do it in SimPE but WW is often easier to use for stuff like that (and cataloguing). Fakepeeps is an example of this - all her skins have huge file sizes. I love her stuff but I routinely run absolutely everything I download of hers through WW to reduce the file sizes.

WW also does throw exceptions about textures mainly because JFade hadn 't covered all the formats before he stopped working on the programme. It's not usually an issue - a limitation of the programme not a problem with the graphic.

I'll have a look at those files tonight if I can. I'll warn you, the next 3-4 days, I'm going to be busy.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#11 Old 24th May 2016 at 9:08 AM
I wonder if anyone (maxon or Jo or anyone else who wants to try) has had a look at those two versions of the red tankini bottom. I wonder if the bump map included in one of them is actually being used. I can see the bump map inside the .package file, but I don't know if it's really working, because my (onboard) graphics chip doesn't show bump maps. I couldn't find a tutorial for adding a bump map to a clothing package, so I did it more or less the way I described in my post #6 above, except that I did it with the version of the file in SavedSims after finishing work in Body Shop, and I committed and saved more often. However this method was really just my guess as to what might work. I was particularly uncertain what the "Fix TGI" button did, and my guess was that it gave the imported item valid instance numbers. When I eventually did find a relevant tutorial in the Body Shop Modding forum, it described a rather different method, so, while I know that my method got the bump map into the package, and that Sims (at least in Body Shop and CAS) can still wear the item, I don't know if it's really using the bump map, or if anything else is wrong. The fact that Wardrobe Wrangler doesn't like the image might suggest that something is still wrong.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#12 Old 24th May 2016 at 10:22 AM
Andrew I am so sorry that I forgot about this, but I actually checked in game today. They all look fine and good enough for uploading. I will show you what I have since I am not sure if I have all of them or not.

The only issue is I have the first one twice.
Screenshots

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#13 Old 24th May 2016 at 10:58 AM
The red tankini bottom is deliberately in twice -- one has the bump map in the .package file and the other one hasn't. You should be able to tell them apart in CAS and in Body Shop by the tooltips. Of course they both look the same to me, because my system can't show bump maps, but I wondered if you can tell any difference with better graphics. It seems a shame not to use the bump maps when they're available, since Maxis bothered to make them. All the bikinis, except for the single colour ones with the black piping, have them. So I presume that Maxis thought it was worth putting them in.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 24th May 2016 at 10:59 AM
They are nice, they are practical - and as for risky - have you seen what Sims 4 comes up with? I will download
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#15 Old 24th May 2016 at 1:30 PM Last edited by joandsarah77 : 25th May 2016 at 2:24 AM.
They look identical to me Andrew. I doubt a mesh and style like that needs a bump map, so if there is nothing there to show you may as well get rid of it. Bump maps are for things like belts or things that need to 'come out' of the fabric.

I took a closer look in CAS at both the front and back and there was no change switching between the two.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#16 Old 25th May 2016 at 2:07 PM
Jo, they were identical! The way I tried to include the bump map didn't actually work, as I discovered when I re-exported it in Body Shop. But I can be a perfectionist when I want to be, and I persevered. I followed this old tutorial by Morague (with a bit of difficulty as I'm sure SimPE has changed a little in the last eleven years!) and that did add the bump map. In the process it lost something of the graphics quality, but I got that back in Body Shop. I then used the one I'd converted using Morague's tutorial as the basis for all the ones where the Maxis original bikinis use bump maps, and I'm now pretty confident that my bikini bottoms are identical to the Maxis originals, except that they're separates. Both in the Maxis original swimwear, and in my Everyday separate conversions, the 6 tankinis and the two high-rise bikinis have bump maps. The low-rise single colour bikinis with the black piping do not. Why Maxis used bump maps for some of these bikinis and not others I have no idea. Maybe the bump maps are really for some details on the bikini tops. Or maybe quite simply some Maxis developers put bump maps in and others didn't. Whatever the reason, I believe I have now managed to retain the bump maps in the outfits that had them.

So the .zip file I attach is (I hope) ready for uploading. I wonder, Jo and/or Maxon, could you please be very kind and take the pictures for me, as I fear the graphics in my game aren't up to MTS Upload standard. Of course I'll give you credit. And, if you give me the names of Sims who act as models, and possibly the names of the neighbourhoods where they live, I'll give them credit too; as I'm sure you know, I'm very much into Sims' rights!

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  AndrewGl-Teen Bikini Bottoms as Separates.zip (323.5 KB, 9 downloads) - View custom content
Description: Proposed Upload of Teen Bikini Bottoms as Separates

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#17 Old 25th May 2016 at 2:21 PM
I'll take a look tomorrow for you Andrew, it's 20 past 11 over here now.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#18 Old 25th May 2016 at 2:32 PM
No hurry at all Jo!

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#19 Old 25th May 2016 at 2:50 PM
Hey Andrew - I forgot to post last week. I did test the two red ones, one with a bump map, the other not. It's not working. I was going to look up some stuff about adding bumpmaps before I responded to let you know and then ... well, everything got buried in work stuff again. If I get a little time, I'll see if I can chase up about bump maps. There are info pages and tuts where people have done it so it should be doable.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Test Subject
#20 Old 25th May 2016 at 4:53 PM
How can the rights and my photos so big
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#21 Old 25th May 2016 at 9:04 PM Last edited by maxon : 25th May 2016 at 9:18 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by tom ivanov
How can the rights and my photos so big

He probably used an external utility like Fraps.

Edit: I tested briefly in BS - and they all show up properly and very nice they are looking too. One thing I thought Andrew - and reject this out of hand if you don't agree - is that a nice thing to do would be to offer these not only as everyday bottoms but also a version categorised for swimwear. Now I know they were originally swimwear but you can make separate available for different categories of clothes and having the bottoms (and tops maybe) separate would mean people could mix and match their swimwear. I know I'd like that. Just a suggestion.
Screenshots

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#22 Old 26th May 2016 at 4:00 AM
That's a great idea. ^

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Test Subject
#23 Old 26th May 2016 at 10:52 AM
I like your sim
Mad Poster
#24 Old 26th May 2016 at 6:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
He probably used an external utility like Fraps.

Edit: I tested briefly in BS - and they all show up properly and very nice they are looking too. One thing I thought Andrew - and reject this out of hand if you don't agree - is that a nice thing to do would be to offer these not only as everyday bottoms but also a version categorised for swimwear. Now I know they were originally swimwear but you can make separate available for different categories of clothes and having the bottoms (and tops maybe) separate would mean people could mix and match their swimwear. I know I'd like that. Just a suggestion.

How can one mix and match swimwear, when swimwear is an outfit category?

Je mange des girafes et je parle aussi français !...surtout :0)

Find all my old MTS Uploads, on my SFS, And all new uploads Here . :)
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#25 Old 26th May 2016 at 9:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
Hey Andrew - I forgot to post last week. I did test the two red ones, one with a bump map, the other not. It's not working. I was going to look up some stuff about adding bumpmaps before I responded to let you know and then ... well, everything got buried in work stuff again. If I get a little time, I'll see if I can chase up about bump maps. There are info pages and tuts where people have done it so it should be doable.
Thanks. I found out for myself that the bump map wasn't working when I tried re-exporting it in Body Shop and the bump map didn't export. However, following that old tutorial by Morague (mentioned in my post #16 above) does appear to have worked, so I'm pretty confident that my bikini bottoms now have the appropriate Maxis bump maps. HP says it's a bad idea to create your own bump maps if you can't see them, but I'm not creating my own, just using Maxis bump maps with the appropriate Maxis textures.
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
One thing I thought Andrew - and reject this out of hand if you don't agree - is that a nice thing to do would be to offer these not only as everyday bottoms but also a version categorised for swimwear. Now I know they were originally swimwear but you can make separate available for different categories of clothes and having the bottoms (and tops maybe) separate would mean people could mix and match their swimwear. I know I'd like that. Just a suggestion.
I presume you mean using the technique described by Almighty Hat here? I had a problem with that, but I think I've just solved it. Up to now I have only used it to let Andrew wear his favourite black shorts as formal. Using Hat's method, I made his Simphany.com shiny black shorts available as formal (in addition to Everyday) and to get a suitable top, I made a copy of a Maxis base game short-sleeved shirt and tie and enabled that for formal in the same way. It worked, except that I had forgotten that I had previously townified that pair of shorts. The townified shorts led to a problem when randomising teen boys in CAS, in that many of them didn't get a formal outfit at all. Well after a while I made a new version of the shorts, this time paired with the long socks from the kilt (called hose in Scotland) and more formal looking black shoes. I got Andrew to change to wearing the new version, and I thought I had replaced the original shorts with an older backed up copy not enabled for formal. However my randomised CAS teen boys continued not to get formal outfits, and I was afraid that re same thing would happen to any NPC or townie boy generated by the game. So today, after reading your post Maxon, I thought I'd have another look, and saw to my surprise that Wardrobe Wrangler was showing the original black shorts as still enabled for formal. (This was a double surprise as Wardrobe Wrangler had previously crashed when trying to open clothes modified in this way!) So it looks like either I didn't replace the shorts with a backed up pair, or the backup I chose wasn't old enough. Well I downloaded a fresh pair of those shorts from Simphany.com, placed them in my Downloads folder, and townified them, but didn't enable them for formal. Then I started up the game, opened CAS, and started randomising teenage boys. Well I clicked the randomise button about 25 times, and every boy had a formal outfit! (Some were admittedly bizarre, but I do townify some strange things! ) So that looks like the problem is fixed. What I think happened was that the game decided to give this boy a formal outfit made of separates, allocated the townified shorts -- the only available outfit, but then could go no further as no townified formal tops were available. It might have worked if I'd had at least one formal townified top. I'll test for that some time.

So, after that long explanation, I can see no objection to making swimwear-enabled separates. Your Sims have to buy them as Everyday (and pay §200 for each piece!) but once bought, they can wear them as swimwear too. For this to work I'll have to convert and enable some tops too. Risé_sims has already converted the plain colour bikini tops into separates, and I don't know how happy she or MTS would be about me enabling those for swimwear, but nobody has done the two high-waist bikini tops, and the tankini tops are already available from Maxis as everyday tops in base game. So I can do all of those.

Now I'll make a start on the tops. As I've got them to make still, there's no hurry to get the pictures of the bottoms.

@Rosebine , I think this answers your question too. Almighty Hat has worked out how to do it!

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
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