So, I really don't play The Sims 4 but I thought about something today. They only released one expansion pack last year. That's never happened before. There tends to be at least two expansions every year, unless the base game is released that same year.

Sims games generally have a shelf life of 3-5 years. The Sims 4 was released in 2014, The Sims 3 in 2009, and The Sims 2 in 2004. It's been like two and half years since The Sims 4 released. The Sims 2 had five expansion packs and The Sims 3 had six and this point, along with all of their respective stuff packs. TS4 has three expansion packs and two of them (City Living and Get Together) came as one expansion pack in TS3: Late Night. TS2 and TS3 ran from '04-'08 and from '09-'13, five years each. (For whatever reason they tend to release base games from June to September, so more like 4-ish years)

At first I thought it was because of the "Game Packs" because those took the place of Stuff packs. However, that's not true either. By this point, TS3 had not only produced six stuff packs but also had the entire TS3 store. There are only 9 "Game Packs" though. That's not very much content compared to what the games before it had this far into the development cycle. As I've mentioned earlier, these games only get new content for about 4 1/2-5 years and TS4 came out in 2014.

Based on that, wouldn't that mean that next year is TS4's last year? I know there's another Expansion in development right now and if we say that last year was a fluke and they're be two expansions this year... That's still only five expansions or four if there is only one this year. (The Sims 2 and 3 had 8 and 11 expansions, for comparison.) So what's the deal?

Next expansion? I was hoping City Living would be the last. I never expected they'd drag it out this long, they took the hint with SimCity after just one expansion.

I hope it's over soon, but honestly I'm not holding my fingers crossed for The Sims 5 to be any better. I think the only chance we'll ever get at a new (proper) Sims game is if someone decides to straight up clone it and do a better job with it like Colossal Order did with Cities: Skylines (it's quite literally just SimCity 2013 only not terrible). Sadly Paradox said they aren't interested in making or publishing a life simulator.

I really hope not, I hope this gets a longer shelf life than the previous sims, because I don't want to see a TS5 just rushed into production, and be released in another half-finished mess the TS4 started out in.

Well, you said yourself that TS4 is a "half-finished mess" and considering what kind of content we got during the last years I'm pretty confident in saying that more content probably won't fix what's wrong with TS4. They would need to do a 180 and that's highly unlikely. So starting from scratch with TS5 seems like the better idea.

I guess EA might just be biding its time until TS4's cycle is over. I heard from people who bought City Living that it looked horrible and felt cheap. I knew things were bad but I guess I didn't realize until just now that EA knows it, too. Then again, I don't think that had much faith in it. Even the way it was advertised made them seem like they knew it would flop. TS3 had billboards and advertising everywhere. It was a big deal. I think The Sims 3 even broke some kind of record for sales or something. I honestly think that after this, Maxis closing, and the Simcity fiasco that The Sims has reached the end of development.

I'm actually not too upset though. Does anyone remember that game Petz from the 90's? It wasn't very popular but it still has a surprising amount of fan sites and content creators. With as many fans as TS2/3 has, I imagine that The Sims community will just continue supporting and creating for itself indefinitely.

You'd have to compare TS2 and TS3. TS2 was a powerhouse and people loved it. I know COD players loves the Sims. The series was that real. Of course TS3 broke records and shifted millions.

TS3 was a monumental shift for the series, but the series' overall quality began to take a turn for the worse with EA's greed getting in the way. EA actually began to produce too much content, and I assume they weren't making as much as they expected.

Then, came the SimCity disaster. Which changed TS4 entirely.

Coming off of all of that, and the TS4 pre-release drama, it felt like TS4 was destined to fail. The first year showed very mild signs of promise, but that quickly faded when the amount of conent plummeted.

TS4 is flopping. Super hardcore. We're getting an expansion pack, but I'm not expecting it until fall, then another next fall... maybe.

I heard that a lot of the original employees that worked on TS2 and TS3 left when TS4 was in development. I think the reason that TS3 was such a good game but had the technical issues it did was because EA was pushing for more content to fund other triple-A titles and The Sims Studio struggled to keep up with the demand. I remember hearing somewhere that a lot of the money from The Sims 3 went towards funding another game? I can't remember which one and I don't know if that's true or not.

You can tell even by the way Sims 4 looks that it's not really a sims game. They changed so many things that have been the same forever: The UI, the way the stuff packs work, the art style, etc etc. I think that TS3 was only influenced partially by EA's decisions. I think the only things that the higher ups really meddled in was how fast everything got made. I think TS4 is the first game where someone stepped in and decided to change the way that the franchise did things. However, since Simcity bombed, I guess they tried to reverse their decisions but failed horribly. That's all conjecture of course but it seems like the most likely scenario. There had to be meddling from the higher ups to create an online game that could crank out content at a low cost. I imagine that's why The Sims 4 art style is so simple and clean looking. It was probably planned so that more content could be cranked out in a shorter amount of time.

It had to be a corporate plan to make the game even more profitable that fell on it's face. I can't imagine one of the original Sims developers looking at TS4 and going "Hey, we should cut out a quarter of the content, release less expansions, and make it require and internet connection! ALSO: let's make "moods" our selling point!" In fact, I think one of the original developers quit and basically called out a bunch of people on twitter? Did I dream that or did that happen?

TL;DR: They're probably just trying to struggle through TS4 because they screwed up their plans to make it more profitable. Also, the art style wasn't an artistic choice probably: TS4's art style makes its content faster and easier to make so production could happen faster if the game was successful.

I think you're confusing the different type of packs that exist for TS4. There have been so far :
- 3 EPs at $40 : Get To Work, Get Together, City Living
- 4 GPs at $20 : Outdoor Retreat, Spa Day, Dine Out, Vampires
- 9 SPs (soon 10) at $10 : Luxury Party, Perfect Patio, Cool Kitchen, Spooky Stuff, Movie Hangout, Romantic Garden, Kids' room, Backyard Stuff, and Vintage
GPs haven't replaced the SPs, they are a totally different kind of things than the SPs. They are more like half EPs focusing more on a specific theme (Camping, Spa, Restaurant, Vampires) while the EPs are broader (Work, Friends, City) .

I always saw game packs being more like the big premium content packs/worlds from the Sims 3 Store.

Well there's the highly rumored Pets. If they're finally starting to give simmers what they want (pets, seasons and university), then that's definitely a sign.

These doom and gloom threads always crack me up. It's hilarious to watch people cherry pick their "evidence" that the game is dying, while the franchise merrily trucks along anyway. XD

Too funny.

Mostly because it's their job to make games?

And it's anything but merry. No one it cherry picking here. There's a noticible decline in both sales and overall quality. Most evident is the lack of meaningful content and EA favoring reskins over major content.

What's your reasoning for going from three expansions a year to one (game packs don't even count anymore towards being half expansions because we only get one a year now), and the content in the Expansion Pack is less than that of any of TS3's?

First of all EA hasn't released the sales numbers of this game. So we have no hard numbers or really any idea what they really are outside of fan speculation. More importantly we don't know what their return on investment is and what kind of net profit they've made. It could be bad. It could be just fine. Really no way to tell without looking at actual official company financials.

Also, the last three major things released: City Living, Toddlers and Vampires are hardly reskins. Come on, now. Really? Just because you don't like the content doesn't mean that there's a lack of it.



See - this is what I mean about cherry picking evidence. You also seem to fail at the concept of math.

The sims has been out for what? Two and a half years? We've had three full expansions, four game packs (which are like half expansions), and like nine stuff packs. That's hardly going from three expansions a year to one. And that doesn't even include toddlers. The production schedule looks like it's right on track. They're just packaging it a bit differently than the last series.

I also don't buy that the expansions have less content, but whatever. They have yet to release an entirely unplayable and game breaking expansion like Island Paradise so they're already way, way ahead.

And yes, I do find this terribly funny. Because the same handful of people keep pushing the same gloomy narrative across multiple web communities because they want the emotional validation of seeing a game they hate fail. Just knowing that this is going to continue on pointlessly, despite what EA releases, for the next two and a half years as the game completes it's lifecycle regardless of silly threads like this, is really freaking hilarious.

The Sims 4 was rushed precisely because they dragged The Sims 3 out too long. That's visible both in the quality of The Sims 3's last few add-ons as well as the quality of The Sims 4 base game.

So, EA has stalled content production because it's selling well? What major business stalls content production despite consumer demand?

2015 saw the release of:
-Two game packs
-Two expansion packs
-Four Stuff Packs

2016
-One Expansion Pack
-One Game Pack
-Five Stuff Packs

2017 has, as of March:
-One Game Pack
-One Upcoming Stuff Pack (sometime in Spring).

It's only the first quarter. If Sales increase, it would show in what EA releases. The only thing to show a production increase was Stuff Packs. EA isn't going to authorize the production of excess content (which we had constantly with TS3) if consumer aren't buying their content with respect to financial output. If these packs were selling, like they previously were, EA would have either maintained their production schedule or increased it.

Now, 2017 can be chuck full of content, especially with the increases in sales we already know they got from toddlers, but until then, it's still at a period of decline.

As yes, I'm quite good at math. At its peak (the year after release, then it went downhill), The Sims 4 managed what was written above for 2015. How did Sims 3 peak (which was a steady increase up until 2012, a year before TS3 ended)?

In the year 2012:
-Thee Expansion Packs
-Three Stuff Packs
-19 Store Sets (which more basically Stuff Packs anyway).
-Three Store Worlds (meanwhile, were begging for space)
-Numerous uncounted single release items, free packs, promotional content, community reward items, and registration rewards.

Yet, I'm crazy for saying that the Sims isn't doing so well. That's back when EA was heavy duty invested in the series, and it was making bank. So much so that they used money from The Sims 3 on another other game. Compared to TS3, it's flopping. Notibly hard.

For me it kind of depends to what content you're referring to. Sure, there's a lot of content, but much of that content is pretty meaningless.
Look at the pie menu for instance. It's a complete chaos when you compare it to TS2 and 3.
Since vampires, my sims can now "Praise vampire lifestyle" to sims that aren't even vampires. The result is that it will get a plus in their relationship. So far there hasn't been a sim in my game that reacted negatively to it. Hence the interaction is meaningless.
This is just an tiny example, but things like these are a part of the content.

When I re-installed TS2 about 6 months ago, I was surprised that there weren't more objects, interactions, etc. It had been ages since I played it and I guess my memory filled that game with a whole bunch of stuff. But guess what? It didn't matter, because the things that are in TS2 actually do something or mean something to keep your story going.

So, maybe you're right, there might not be a lack of content, but the functionality of the content is definitely lacking.

Instead of expansion packs I would like to see TS4 getting updated and tuned so all of the current packs work seamlessly.

For example the Retail part for Get To Work is completely brain-dead simple compared to Dine Out and has a lot of features that could be updated.
Not being able to sell retail food items (like cakes) at a restaurant bothered me a bit, and tending bar doesn't earn the restaurant any money.
Other things like humans at diners buying vampire food/drinks and toddlers not going to diners.

Just some of the few inconsistencies that might get addressed, but that's none of my business.

I suppose I'm one of the few people that would pay $10 for huge updates instead of a lackluster stuff pack that I don't need or want.

In a Reddit post, a player of "The Sims 4" posted a picture of the survey which mentions a game pack that would put the Sims in a university. That's right, Sims going to college is hinted to be back in the game series.

Electronic Arts referred this DLC as "The Sims 4 On Campus." Reddit posters share the description of the DLC: School is in session and its time for your Sims to hit the books in The Sims 4 On Campus. Take your teenage Sims to boarding school to advance their skills, find more about themselves, and even impress their crush. Move on to university to learn new career skills, join cliques, and even experience the craziness of dorm living.

I'd rather instead of another expansion or game pack or anything like that, they focus on meshing the current content together. With sims 2 and 3, the expansions usually added features to previous expansions, or large enough to justify being an expansion. With how sims 4 is going, it's like a game that doesn't really know what it's supposed to be. I mean look at dine out, they gave use restaurants, but they didn't bother to include working in one as a profession. I know in sims 2 that was one of my favorite things to do, having a family run restaurant. Or with city living, they could've given us the option to make apartments, like in sims 2 and 3, instead we get a half baked version of it that no one is really happy with. I do like that they made building easier or at least not as tedious as in previous games though.

Stalled out production? LOL Hardly.

Two years, six months and two days into the Sims 4 cycle (September 2, 2014 - March 4, 2017) we have 3 expansions and 4 game packs, which are about half an expansion each. So right now EA has released the equivalent of 5 expansion packs of content.

Two years, six months and two days into the Sims 3 development cycle (June 2, 2009 - December 4, 2011) and what did we have? Five expansions.

EA is right on pace with their previous production schedule.



Honestly your comparison makes no sense to me. I see it as one of two things - both of which are completely disingenuous comparisons.

Option A:
Right now we are at the two and one half year production mark of the Sims 4: September 2, 2014 - March 4, 2017. Where we would be right now in the Sims 3 is: June 2, 2009 - December 4, 2011. Your list above? Is an entire year ahead of where the Sims 4 development right now. So yeah, of course they haven't released a comparable amount of content because you're comparing the Sims 4 with 2 1/2 years of content to the Sims 3 at 3 1/2 years of content.

Option B:
Or maybe what you're trying to do is compare the first year of Sims 4 development to the third year of the Sims 3 development because that's when the games "peaked" in your opinion, which is by the way, is a great example of you arbitrarily cherry picking evidence to suit your doom and gloom narrative.

First of all, you have no idea when sales peaked, because again, EA hasn't released their sales data. So really, you're just guessing. Second, you're comparing apples to oranges by drawing a comparison between the two games at two entirely different times in their development. Which is pretty strange to me, because given the amount of time it takes to produce content, the first year of expansion and game pack releases must have been scheduled and planed long before the release of the base game - which means that first year release schedule would have absolutely nothing to do with sales figures or "peaking."

So let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Year 1 of the Sims 4 (September 2, 2014 - September 2, 2015) and what did we have? One expansion, two game packs - the equivalent of two expansions. What did we have during year 1 of the Sims 3 (June 2, 2009 - June 2, 2010). Two expansions.

Also, seriously? You're using the fact that they got rid of the rip off that was the Sims 3 store as evidence of their decline? That's hilarious considering how many players hated it (I swear, EA cannot win, lol. They put out store content - they're milking players! they get rid of the store - OMG THE SIMS 4 IS DYING, Y'ALL!). I don't miss that overpriced ripoff where they'd charge $25-35 for a new world. The way they're releasing stuff packs now is a much bigger improvement. That the shitty Sims 3 store wasn't carried over for Sims 4 is a sign of progress and realigning their business model due to fan feedback.



You're not crazy. You are, however, super emotionally invested in seeing your dislike of this video game being confirmed by the game failing. Thus you cherry pick evidence like deciding arbitrarily that game packs don't count, claim expansions lack content when really they do have content and it's just content that you don't like, and make completely strange and cherry picked comparisons between games, all because it confirms your confirmation bias.

Anyway, that's pretty much all I'm willing to write about this silly ass topic since I think you and I have gone round and round on this across at least three different forums. You can continue to preach doom and gloom over the next two and a half years of the Sims 4 development cycle in peace, and I'll continue to shake my head and LMAO.

My cherry picking? I was giving examples and comparisons. Very clean cut comparisons. I'm not jumping around from year to year, I'm showing an example of product investment within the series at a specific point in time. I don't have to like something to point out a success or failing. I dislike the COD franchise, but it's doing well for itself. Not as well as years prior, but still doing well enough. Not a fan of the Paranormal Activity films, and those always bring in boat loads of cash. I'm a fan of Tomb Raider, and have been for ages. Even when Core made a game that ended the studio, I was still a fan (I genuinely love the Angel Of Darkness). Me stating facts (or at the least my impression of the information presented to me) is just that.

The reason the store was used was to show:

1. Online content production. Both TS3 and TS4 has online content. Stuff Packs and Game Packs act as more of a replacement to that. While things were overpriced, people still purchased content, month after month.

2. This is also in response to EA saying they'd produce NEW content monthly. I can't speak of intent, but I assume that's why 2015 was a peak year, and why 2016 saw fewer major releases. Stuff packs, being cheaper to purchase and easier to produce, saw an increase.

3. The store showed actual growth in what content was produced. It started out as reskins and a free world. Over time, EA sought to experiment more with different kinds of content releases: Major Worlds, Venues, Premium Content. Pretty much every endeavor was successful. The same applies to TS2 when Stuff Packs were introduced part way through the series. Their success led to an increased production. For TS4, the only thing that changed was turning Stuff Packs into store sets and Game Packs into Venues or Worlds. Not really new, just repurposed/rebranded.

I even showed series decline within the TS4 era, which is true. Less content has been produced over the same period of time as the year prior.

In two posts, you've come at me directly - that's not how people are supposed to argue with one another. We use facts, not person attacks. And I'm not "emotionally invested" in TS4, I just enjoy a good argument. If you going to attack me, be accurate. You'd have had a better chance attacking my education because of my typos.

If you can't have a fair argument, don't argue.

I like how Silly Merricat uses this phrase way too often : "cherry picking"

It's not cherry picking. If you've played previous games and were invested in them, you would see that TS4 has a serious decline in gameplay quality.
They basically asked for money on the Vampires GP Livestream... It felt so wrong. I don't know who's cherry picking, but evidence clearly shows that the franchise in it's current state is deffinitelly not doing well. It started of terribly, lost it's production momentum and originality, and is probably going to die in a year. Well, game. not sure about the franchise.

I don't know who is biased here, the evidence guy or the opinion guy.

Just to clarify, before I leave you all in peace the way I promised I would: I've been playing these games since the Sims 1 first came out. I've played all four, loved and hated parts of all four so yeah, I think I'm invested in them. And no, I don't agree that there's been a serious decline in quality with the Sims 4. I think there's been major improvements in many areas that are fantastic. I think there areas that could most certainly be improved. Which... makes Sims 4 not that different than past versions of this game, actually.



Heh, well, we'll find out, won't we?

I want seasons and pets first before it's over, lol

Yes, each game had it's fair share of problems. TS4 has had more then any era, but that's not to discredit any improvements or advancement, but TS4 is lagging behind both TS2 & TS3. It only bests TS1.

It's not really a case of like or dislike - this isn't an argument of feelings. Quality has degraded objectively. Hell, even I like parts of TS4 (not very many, so let's not go there), but that's not something that TS4 stared. That began with TS3, which only sold well because of TS2 and everyone hoping the game would improve overall.

While people bought from the store (and I still stand behind what I said about it, financially - it made EA a lot of money), it bled the series dry and led to very watered down content. It was that peak in output that led to a lot of people disliking the series because it came across as greedy.

There are people who bought everything from the store - I don't even know much it coast to own the store, but I'm sure it's in the thousands. However, despite the push, it opened the door for a lot of content we've never really had before.

Something we no longer have is alternating between something new or fresh, and something remade. That was prominent in TS2:
University was new.
Nightlife was a remake of House Party and Hot Date.
Open For Business was new.
Pets was an empty remake of Unleahsed.
Seasons was new.
Bon Voyage was a remake of Vacation.
Free time was new.
Apartment Life was always billed as a remake of Makin' Magic, but was generally new.

TS3 didn't follow this trend:
World Adventures was a remake of Bon Voyage, focused on Tomb Raiding.
Ambitions was new.
Late Night was a remake of Nightlife, Apartment Life, and Superstar.
Generations was new.
Pets was a remake of Pets.
Showtime was Late Night without apartments.
Supernatural was a remake of Makin Magic.
Seasons was a remake of Seasokns.
University Life was a remake of University.
Island Paradise was (generally) new.
Into The Future was new.

TS4 is basically a series of remakes...
Outdoor Retreat is Bon Voyage's camping.
Get To Work is Ambitions.
Spa Day is Bon Voyage (again).
Get Together is Nightlife.
Dine Out is Open for Business.
City Live is World Adventures (in theming), Apartment Life, Night Life, and Late Night, without the depth of any. Probably more...
Vampires is Supernatral.
Pets is coming up, soon, too...