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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 14th May 2018 at 11:41 AM Last edited by mirta123 : 18th May 2018 at 6:50 PM.
Default How The Sims 4 Failed Me - Discussion
To explain, this is not a topic about how The Sims 4 failed. I think it did not fail. I think it switched audience. At the end of its lifespan I finally understood that maybe I shouldn't try to enjoy a game that was obviously not made with players like me in mind. I left the game alone. Then received a comment asking for a critical review on life simulation and The Sims 4 in general. So I went away, reflected on it and came up with 24 reasons as to how The Sims 4 failed me and lost me as a customer. Everyone here is free to agree with me, disagree with me, or post opinions of their own.

So I broke my topic exploration down into 5 major parts:

1. Creativity (and lack of it)
2. How DLC content was being handled
3. Simulation simplification
4. Audience missmatch
5. Limitations

Today I'm putting up part 1: Creativity and lack of it.



this video explores 4 major points as to how it is more about how EA wants us to play than how we want to play. Major points being:

1. Lack of creative tools and even such simple world shaping as the ability to delete, move and place lots.
2. Lack of game-world consistency that you could achieve yourself (due to NPCs being regenerated daily, playing with a very specific setting is very difficult)
3. The year that the game is in being forced on you. There is no way to go backwards - you can not buy handheld mobile phones, take out UI smartphone, buy hanging phones, buy 1950s TVs, or anything of that sort. Going back in time is just not supported.
4. The UI smartphone itself. It is very hard to mod that thing out. It's a UI element. That denotes the time that this game was made in. For forever.

Part 2: DLC Content



This video discusses:

1. Release Schedule (1 expansion per year)
2. Recycling content (Dine Out, Vet Clinic, Store) (Outdoor and Adventure)
3. Peacemealing content. (City Living, Get Together, Vampires - one pack. Pets and Pet Stuff)
4. Lack of meaningful content
5. Lack of exploration of unique ideas

Part 3: Simulation simplification



This video discusses:

1. Overly simplistic emotion system (decoration can overpower death)
2. Relationship level means nothing to autonomy (enemies acting friendly)
3. Traits mean nothing compared to the decor of the place
4. Lack of registering events (giving gifts, delivering babies, etc has no influence on the sim you're
interacting with)
5. No event compatibility awareness (enemies inviting each other out)
6. Convenience in favour of realism
7. Too easy

Part 4: Audience mismatch



This video discusses:

1. Kiddification (talking toilets, hamsters going into space)
2. Removal of practically anything negative (pets, pregnant sims can't die. No sad moodlet for dead hamsters)
3. Family tree support primitive, game not very legacy friendly.
4. Game flow too slow. Days take 20 minutes.
5. Pandering to the wrong audiences (insane trait changed to "erratic", transgender debacle)

Part 5 (last part!): Limitations



This video discusses:

1. Unstable engine (simulation lag)
2. Changes between a teenager, adult and senior, both appearance and personality wise very minimal.
3. Very little physical interaction.

by the way, this exact same topic on the official forums? Deleted and I'm banned. Think I'm perma banned this time

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Mad Poster
#2 Old 14th May 2018 at 12:04 PM
I was just about to open a thread for video compilations for members to post, starting with yours. Right now I'm still watching and do agree with the point you're on about now: no world modification = creativity killer.

ETA: BTW, your video to long. 4 minutes wasted on black screen.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 14th May 2018 at 12:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
I was just about to open a thread for video compilations for members to post, starting with yours. Right now I'm still watching and do agree with the point you're on about now: no world modification = creativity killer.

ETA: BTW, your video to long. 4 minutes wasted on black screen.


Sonny Vegas messed up the render. Thanks for telling me! Youtube is in process of cutting off the end now, so it should become shorter after a few hours.
Mad Poster
#4 Old 14th May 2018 at 12:36 PM
Though they can, however, provide a storyline where players can shape in what timeline it's portrayed. A simple feature as a "Turn off" interaction on the phones would and should prevent sims from using it and it to use sims, and thus half the job would be done. Provide a SP/GP/EP that provides essential decade items such as the landline telephone, newspaper, a feature to use service and contact sim via the mailbox ect. and you got a sandbox game in that aspect. OP addressed the issue regarding how there's a lack of flexibility to the time period sims exist within, not the technical feel over the game.

And it's not really a lost on the technical part (unlike things, like absence of world modification tools, that are restricted by the limited engine) , because I'm pretty sure those things can be customize through directory or third party means, such as build mode playlist soundtrack, the UI with the help of modifications, etc and etc.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 14th May 2018 at 2:40 PM
For what we know, it's a bonus point that addresses the remaining problem throughout the series, unlike the three other critiques. Still relevant to the "lack of creativity issue". Could TS4 have gone on finding the remedy? Sure, by importing past game items (let it be as DLC) and a simple option (hope I don't give a heart stroke to developers by uttering that word) would have done a great job. However, I do see a valid reason why they choose to stick with the modern world that's relevant in real life.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Forum Resident
#6 Old 14th May 2018 at 5:08 PM
TS4 really does feel like it's geared towards pre-teens. I see a lot of coddling.
Ex. "Oh, building worlds is hard! Here, we did it for you! They can't be changed so you don't have to worry about anything getting messed up! *pats head*"

There's also obviously the plethora of shameless social media trends and meme references. ("Troll teh forums," Simstagram, Gangnam Style in Sims 3, etc)

It's really not hard to see why EA is allegedly switching their focus to mobile gaming. Pre-teens and younger teenagers have low attention spans and spend the majority of their time on their cell phones. It's depressing to watch as a long-time fan of the PC series, but from a marketing stance, it definitely makes sense (yes, I know The Sims Mobile isn't doing well and it's probably counter-intuitive for them to focus on it at this point, but I'm speaking in a general sense and acknowledging why they probably considered it in the first place).

The simmer formerly known as Averex
My Claim to Fame
Mad Poster
#7 Old 14th May 2018 at 6:13 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
In Fairness, every Sims game released thus far has been stuck in a respective time period they were released. TS3 feels stuck in 2009-2011. TS2 stuck in 2004-2007. TS1 stuck in 1999-2003. No amount of mods can really change the feeling as it runs deeper than what outfit or phone device your Sim has access to. The music and sound effects, graphic user interface elements, and general approach to the core game design all feel like their respective time periods. Unless you're talented and persistent enough to do a TC (Total Conversion), these games will always have some aspects to them that are reminiscent of the time era they were released in.


I actually love that. If I want my late-90s-mid-2000s dose, I'll always try to load up TS2.

That being said, TS3 has CASt and eventually built up a weird, discordant mishmash of styles (i.e. modern and old cars) that prevent it from being firmly dated. On top of that, being able to disable the cellphone and music via two simple mods does a significant amount to help break the game out of its era.
Scholar
#8 Old 14th May 2018 at 6:14 PM
It's not surprising but ts4 was obviously made for the fast paced younger market. I don't see this market spending weeks or months on designing a world just right or creating the perfect story or town. The game is basic and shallow with some pretty scenery thrown in. Do I hate it? Hell yes, but do I get it? Yup.
Not really much room for creation unless you're modding and even then that's skin deep, the framework in general is the issue for the most part.

If you like the sims 4 though, I also understand especially if you didn't like or even play games 1-3. The sims 4 is a whole different breed just like the sims 3 was to some extent.
Field Researcher
#9 Old 14th May 2018 at 8:27 PM Last edited by thevogel : 15th May 2018 at 7:35 PM.
One of the reasons The Sims in general has always been so popular among all age ranges for years...was because there was no one way to play it. You had Family Players, Colony Players, Builders, Modders, and a mishmash of combination players. TS4 pretty much annihilated that. You had to play the game the way the Developers told you to play it. Taking away "must have" tools and gameplay options for many existing players made absolutely no sense to me. I'm personally not a Family player....but how the hell do you market a Life Simulation game and then remove an entire life state (Toddlers), from the game? That one still baffles me.

Then came the PC police. Yes... All of a sudden the wonderful series that used to have these random, funny (dark humor), mischievous, rude, but very entertaining moments in it...suddenly gone. Apparently too "triggering" and no longer allowed in this ultra sensitive game. So having a career as a police officer or detective was fine...but no NPC or anyone in the game was ever committing any kind of crime? No longer was there a burglar randomly breaking in and doing that funny dance when the house alarm went off... apparently they didn't want to "trigger" anyone who had a home invasion at some point in their lives.... okay??? And... what happened to the Firefighter career? No graveyards, but you can have a haunted mansion... Party mentality, but no University. No vehicles and no carpool, just poof and your sim is gone and at work somewhere. For those careers that you can control your sim while they work.... boring as hell... and quite the grind. You can have a dog, but no doghouse cause apparently that is animal cruelty...but spawning random stray dogs and cats that are hungry somehow doesn't count as cruelty.

The hypocrisy of the develops for this version of the game is staggering. A base game so empty that it plays like a demo, and the alienation of the builders was nothing for them...EA didn't even care that they basically threw away thousands of players by Simplifying the building aspect of the game and then refused to acknowledge their pleas for more content or tools. Family players got their Toddlers...but once they grow up...it's back to the same old game. Every request or suggestion from the sims fanbase has been met with a resounding "we can't do that" or "it's just too hard to make that", "we don't have the budget"... and my favorite...."you guys better buy TS4 or you wont get TS5". My knee jerk response to that last one is F. U. in the Face EA.

When they eliminated the Color wheel, as a builder... that was a pretty big slap in the face. It wasn't until they started putting out Stuff packs that I realized why. The constant recoloring and recycling of content already in the game...that we as fans were paying for over and over again was pretty much criminal. There would be one or two new things... and the rest was just retextured or recolored. For the prices they were charging and all the "look at this new shiny thing" tactic they were using to get people not to notice... has been one of the lowest things they've done....Well, until the whole My first pet stuff DLC. That one hit rock bottom for how to swindle a customer out of their money.

I think one of the worst ways that they have failed the sims fanbase is the total and utter lack of communication, in your face lying, and bugs in the game. These three things will resonate with the fanbase for a long time. While I stopped playing and uninstalled the game long ago... I was always surprised by how many people stuck around, holding out hope that EA would change the game to the way they wanted. I saw how much DLC was coming out, the prices, and just shake my head as the extortion continues. While EA continues with their silence campagne about TS4... with the exception of a tease here and there.... No amount of DLC is going to put a band aide on this severed limb of a game.
Forum Resident
#10 Old 15th May 2018 at 1:59 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Gargoyle Cat
EA has no respect for "The Toilet Game". It would be interesting to read what Will Wright thinks of the game as it stands today.

I'm interested to see what happens when his new game comes out. It's not a direct competitor with The Sims, but I think it could definitely shake things up a little.

The simmer formerly known as Averex
My Claim to Fame
Mad Poster
#11 Old 15th May 2018 at 3:55 AM
Sigh! Again? The pros and cons of this game have been beaten to death so many times already. This has to show how bored everyone is that there is nothing else going on of interest about the games anymore.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 15th May 2018 at 4:21 AM
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
Sigh! Again? The pros and cons of this game have been beaten to death so many times already. This has to show how bored everyone is that there is nothing else going on of interest about the games anymore.


All of these vibrant emotions and you chose to be very uncomfortable.

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Mad Poster
#13 Old 15th May 2018 at 5:10 AM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
All of these vibrant emotions and you chose to be very uncomfortable.


Nah, it is just that we have done this soooooooooooooooooooo many times before. As said, it must show how bored everyone is.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#15 Old 15th May 2018 at 7:18 AM
part 2 is up! And no worries, the dead horse on this side will permanently die after this week!
Field Researcher
#16 Old 15th May 2018 at 7:50 PM Last edited by thevogel : 15th May 2018 at 8:47 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
Sigh! Again? The pros and cons of this game have been beaten to death so many times already. This has to show how bored everyone is that there is nothing else going on of interest about the games anymore.


I think everyone just needs to talk about it cause there is nothing new coming out of EA Land. People are being forced to actually play TS4 for long periods of time...yeah, I think peeps are bored. They want their new stuff that EA promised... or teased about.

I've been on steam alot, playing other games... but I keep checking out the forums to see if the pandemonium has reached epic heights yet. I keep waiting for that surge and then silence.... like what happened with SimCity 2013. I don't think TS4 is gonna get that though. It should...but it wont. Different kind of dedication to the franchise has people frothing at the mouth for "what's next?"

My hanging around is more of a morbid curiosity at this point. Theories and speculation about the reality of what could really happen. EA could potentially be getting themselves into some real legal trouble here with all the loot boxing and microtransactions. There are laws on the books for gaming companies that do this, and is regarded as gambling. So I'm waiting to see if the shit finally hits the fan for EA. I guess I'm just wanting to see Karma finally give EA its due... you know...for clearly sabotaging a great franchise that had so much potential.
Field Researcher
#17 Old 15th May 2018 at 8:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Gargoyle Cat
OP isn't bothering anybody. She is talking about issues from her point of view. All of us do this all the time, but when it comes to TS4, suddenly dead horses pop up everywhere. One has to admit it is a bit strange....


@Gargoyle Cat, do you think people keep doing this because of boredom more than disappointment? Or do you think it's because so many of us knew where the game could've gone? I mean at the time of TS4s release... it had the potential to have everything it's predecessors had and more... providing the game engine they chose was healthy enough to handle it. Maybe it's just the knowing of what it could have been? Your thoughts?
Forum Resident
#18 Old 15th May 2018 at 11:44 PM
I just want to take this opportunity that I finally caved and bought the TS4 Pets expansion, and my Sim can't even adopt a pet because the adoption thing is broken. I probably have a lot of out-of-date mods, but I'm not sure the work of going through them is worth it. Thank you, just needed to vent!
Mad Poster
#19 Old 15th May 2018 at 11:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by mirta123
5. Lack of exploration of unique ideas


True dat. Least thing they could have done is new stuff, which I'm open with my arms to accept the excuses for what TS4 (elements it) lacks of If there was such a trade-off. Then again, EA sucks at that as well: Multitasking seemed interesting when you first hear it, but all it is an only few (underwhelming amount) of new interactions to such feature and it isn't that dynamic as the gurus make a hype about it. GTW would have been interesting If they offered things like sims to be active maids/babysitters/pizza(wo)man/etc. I dunno, maybe just me. Perhaps I like that my suggested would kinda give a reason to visit other sims' houses (essentially at least).

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 16th May 2018 at 1:21 AM
Quote: Originally posted by thevogel
One of the reasons The Sims in general has always been so popular among all age ranges for years...was because there was no one way to play it. You had Family Players, Colony Players, Builders, Modders, and a mishmash of combination players. TS4 pretty much annihilated that. You had to play the game the way the Developers told you to play it. Taking away "must have" tools and gameplay options for many existing players made absolutely no sense to me. I'm personally not a Family player....but how the hell do you market a Life Simulation game and then remove an entire life state (Toddlers), from the game? That one still baffles me.

Then came the PC police. Yes... All of a sudden the wonderful series that used to have these random, funny (dark humor), mischievous, rude, but very entertaining moments in it...suddenly gone. Apparently too "triggering" and no longer allowed in this ultra sensitive game. So having a career as a police officer or detective was fine...but no NPC or anyone in the game was ever committing any kind of crime? No longer was there a burglar randomly breaking in and doing that funny dance when the house alarm went off... apparently they didn't want to "trigger" anyone who had a home invasion at some point in their lives.... okay??? And... what happened to the Firefighter career? No graveyards, but you can have a haunted mansion... Party mentality, but no University. No vehicles and no carpool, just poof and your sim is gone and at work somewhere. For those careers that you can control your sim while they work.... boring as hell... and quite the grind. You can have a dog, but no doghouse cause apparently that is animal cruelty...but spawning random stray dogs and cats that are hungry somehow doesn't count as cruelty.

The hypocrisy of the develops for this version of the game is staggering. A base game so empty that it plays like a demo, and the alienation of the builders was nothing for them...EA didn't even care that they basically threw away thousands of players by Simplifying the building aspect of the game and then refused to acknowledge their pleas for more content or tools. Family players got their Toddlers...but once they grow up...it's back to the same old game. Every request or suggestion from the sims fanbase has been met with a resounding "we can't do that" or "it's just too hard to make that", "we don't have the budget"... and my favorite...."you guys better buy TS4 or you wont get TS5". My knee jerk response to that last one is F. U. in the Face EA.

When they eliminated the Color wheel, as a builder... that was a pretty big slap in the face. It wasn't until they started putting out Stuff packs that I realized why. The constant recoloring and recycling of content already in the game...that we as fans were paying for over and over again was pretty much criminal. There would be one or two new things... and the rest was just retextured or recolored. For the prices they were charging and all the "look at this new shiny thing" tactic they were using to get people not to notice... has been one of the lowest things they've done....Well, until the whole My first pet stuff DLC. That one hit rock bottom for how to swindle a customer out of their money.

I think one of the worst ways that they have failed the sims fanbase is the total and utter lack of communication, in your face lying, and bugs in the game. These three things will resonate with the fanbase for a long time. While I stopped playing and uninstalled the game long ago... I was always surprised by how many people stuck around, holding out hope that EA would change the game to the way they wanted. I saw how much DLC was coming out, the prices, and just shake my head as the extortion continues. While EA continues with their silence campagne about TS4... with the exception of a tease here and there.... No amount of DLC is going to put a band aide on this severed limb of a game.


I do not think it was any PC police thing at all. I think it was more "what can we cut out and trim down to min max profits" "how can we word this so we look like good guys even though we gutted this" All of this is about money. All of it. When hire all middle management with an eye for max profit with minimum work man power this is how things go. Right now across all walks Profit is King, some of that is good - to much and you kill the golden goose. Not the first time in history nor will it be that last.
Field Researcher
#21 Old 16th May 2018 at 1:29 AM Last edited by thevogel : 16th May 2018 at 4:58 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by DDOAndora
I do not think it was any PC police thing at all. I think it was more "what can we cut out and trim down to min max profits" "how can we word this so we look like good guys even though we gutted this" All of this is about money. All of it. When hire all middle management with an eye for max profit with minimum work man power this is how things go. Right now across all walks Profit is King, some of that is good - to much and you kill the golden goose. Not the first time in history nor will it be that last.


I can respect what you are saying here... and considering EAs behavior with breaking up content and creating DLC for DLC, and the whole microtransaction thing for Sims Mobile... yes... then this is spot on. But there is something with the whole "triggering" thing.... they changed the insane trait to erratic or something like that, cause if offended some people. They have censored the game quite a bit in an effort not to "offend" anyone. It's Just another way to disappoint and fail the sims community yet again. Nothing like Greed and censorship to sour what could have been an amazing game.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#22 Old 16th May 2018 at 7:29 AM
Part 3 is up! I touch on the whole PC thing in Part 4, but by that point I half expect to be lynched, so that will be tomorrow
Field Researcher
#23 Old 16th May 2018 at 7:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by mirta123
Part 3 is up! I touch on the whole PC thing in Part 4, but by that point I half expect to be lynched, so that will be tomorrow


You won't be lynched... you've made some really on point observations, that many of us agree with.
Field Researcher
#24 Old 16th May 2018 at 8:24 PM
I agree with the videos so far. I think you are hitting the nail in the head.

I also agree that the game has become very pc to the point it's lost its identity. No insane trait, no burglars, no repo man. Drake wasn't kidding when she said it was a safe space because teens don't like bullying.
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