It is true tho. Simmers are not the simmers that were before. This game filtered out the 'simmers' and new players showed up on the scene.

But it's also not true that 'simmers' of now are that stupid and do not know what they want. They do. It's just that MOST of those simmers do not have a PC that can support TS3, had really bad stings from previous games, hood corruptions, various game-breaking bugs, lag, lifeless looking sims, hardships whit the build mode, hardships with advancing the career path, geting money from skills only or just simply hardships with taking care of the needs and hardships with creating CC. It's all easier than ever now in TS4, and you can't really argue with that. EA, with their expansive marketing schemes has succesfuly managed to grapple their targeted audience of casual 'simmers' leaving those of us who look for depth in gameplay mechanics behind.

It's not really anyone's fault besides the game's fault. If the current gen of 'simmers' were the same as the ones from 'before' as you call it, and if TS4 stayed like it is now, it would flop. And not just the game. The whole franchise would flop. To be honest, I kinda wish it does, since that would mean more market opportunity for someone to make the game 'we' want... but that's not the case.

We have EA, and we have carefully planned strategy to get as much simmers as possible with a failed game and less money put in it's production. Luckily for EA, they know their games, and they know people playing their games. They know the 'simmers' of now, the casual ones that would just like to get in the game and not care about the 'depth' and such features, and just play out funny stories or their personal fantasies not really having to take care of anything else.

I've recently read review of TS4 in some magazine that's printed in my country. It was september of 2014 and to the reviewer back then, it was very obvious TS4 was designed for casual simmers, and not a die-hard fans of the series, which would be "left dissapointed". It was like this frim the start. It's not community's fault. It's the game's fault.

I guess to summarize this point, I would put it this way:

American Pride is a pretty common thing. Growing up, I frankly never understood it. How can one show pride when one doesn't know the competition? When I finally left the USA, ironically now I feet some levels of pride for the first time ever towards certain aspects of USA culture. There's parts that are worse and parts that are better, but there's a pride to the good parts because they feel like "home" and played a big role in who I am today. Alongside that though, it gave me new perspective where when I see someone that's never left the USA call it the best country ever or that they love the USA so much....? The answer isn't neccesarily wrong, but the methods of reaching that answer suck. That to me is a false pride where they don't yet know what real pride feels like. In that same light, while there's some truth to "knowing what they want" since they're clearly still happy despite ignorance, I suppose the analogy I would use is akin to someone knowing they love generic chocolate cake, but being blissfully ignorant to the existence of black forest cake. If you have tried both, you have a better ability to more accurately say what you do and don't like amidst each group than if you solely have experience with just one. Perhaps they'd love black forest cake even more, perhaps it'd be too sweet for them. They do not know though until they try it, and they cannot accurately pinpoint strengths and weaknesses of the two until they try it. Unfortunately, there are plenty of Simmers that proudly state they only play the Sims. (and others who only play this genre of games)

Aside from that, I'd say we should recognize "fault" as a typical definition is ridiculous here. I get the sense you guys view this in the sense of someone needing to be at fault for the flaws we see. I view "fault" in this scenario and the way I would use it here is more of a neutral cause-and-effect. Think of it this way: if I sneeze and startle you, causing you to drop your expensive laptop and break it...? I am "at fault" in a cause-and-effect sort of way, but there was no ill-intent or negligence on my behalf, and the legal system recognizes that I shouldn't be held accountable or shamed for this because that would be ridiculous.

Yes, we should absolutely acknowledge that when the community buys these games, they have a hand in being at fault for the drop in quality, since EA recognizes they're being paid the same despite the drop, so it encourages them to keep going. (and that's not absolving EA of fault either; theirs is a given from the start so no need to even discuss it) Recognizing that helps us understand why the things happen the way they do. But "fault" in the sense of "doing something wrong" is difficult and often pointless to discuss since we're millions of people with millions of individual motivations, opinions for our purchasing habits and preferences, so it's not really something that can be applied. I think at the end of the day, fans should absolutely understand that if they purchase a product that they feel has less quality than before, the only message EA is seeing is "money's still in the bank, and infact we profited more since we saved on production costs. It motivates them to keep cutting. When purchasing, one should be absolutely ready to accept those consequences and admit you yourself played a role in them, but bickering or pointing the finger of blame is not the goal and brings absolutely nothing. It's about understanding how the system of things works, not blame.

I guess my point is that...I find it very easy to look at "the others" (EA) and point blame and talk about how bad they are for manipulating buyers. All of that is absolutely true. However, focusing on that brings nothing. Understanding your own actions (which are your right and in no way "bad") and their consequences though? Self-criticism is often more valuable than criticism of the actions of others. We still have control of ourselves as individuals and we can make sound decisions to meet our personal goals when we have the proper outlook and information neccesary. Key part of that: "with the information neccesary" and understanding how the cycle works. My worry is that there are people unsatisfied with the product, yet they do things opposite to their own goals and desires precisely because some people do not want to explore the idea that the community can share a hand in being at "fault." Let's call it what it is but refrain from judgement.


And just to tie this a bit back in to the topic, I've seen the game and read the posts since Seasons release: Sims blatantly walking through objects or teleporting, time glitches resurfacing (to me it seems to happen when the weather status changes), and other little odd tidbits I've heard from others. This engine has seemed questionable from day one, yet here we are pushing it's limits and here we are watching the same bugs unfold despite two recent patches. Why? Because people bought it anyways. Improvements don't really happen until people make noise and some wallets start shutting. Not about blaming those that buy, but merely it is what it is.

This kind of operates under the assumption that the people like that are real Sims players...the way I see it the same way as there is a line between casual gamers and true geeks there is a line between entrance level Simmers and actual hardcore fans. The people who defend EA to the bitter end aren't real Sims fans. So I wouldn't really consider them worthy of the title "Community". Those people are just kids who came upon the franchise recently and are so used to mobile game and facebook game shadiness that they think that EA is an angel for allowing them to guide their Sim from point A to point B without charging for it.

In other words...the die hard fans you think are die hard? AREN'T. They are the new kids on the block. The ones who buy the Simguru bull and see any kind of negativity as mummy and daddy fighting. Die hard Sims fans KNOW EA intimately. They've been sizing up EAs bullshit for years and debating whether it's worth it with their wallet. And those Simmers? Have never seemed more cynical or fed up than they do currently. The Sims is marketed at a general audience and will always have naive casual players that hand out their money without thought, but the Sims like ALL EA gamelines only really survives because of the dedicated long term players. Those players? Have never been more discontent than they are now. Now I'm not a unrealistic individual it'll be a cold day in hell before EA actually changes it's ways due to customer discontent. But when this game franchise goes the way of Dead Space?Due to lack of sales? You'll have the die hard fans to thank for the farce finally being over.

What I don't understand is why it took them 4 years to figure out the cheats were BAD. I would have thought they would have figured it out a long time before now, or are some modders getting too good at there mods. Just a thought.

Odd thing is the one cheat that's not working for me is the one cheat I could swear the game used it's damn self when things froze up. Reset Sim is like the only way to unfreeze this game so why did they get rid of it?

Actually, I corrupted my save game twice since getting seasons where I cannot play or build, 'but I thank myself lucky to had backups, the first time it started when I decided to "visit" my own lot, because I wanted to play this household but everybody was out somewhere, and doing it this reduces loading screen time.

The second time I experimenting with the new Seasons cheats, and was asking for it, so if are using that script to enable all cheats be very cautious with them, and backup your saves folder daily, and don't just rely on the game do this for you, its only keeps 4 backups, and you may find yourself 4 backups too late before you notice something out of the ordinary.

Just putting it out there. If there were no cheats or Modders, The Sims games would have collapsed long ago. So are Modders to blame for EA carrying on with it and would it now be better made or made by some other company?
Runs and hides.

LOL I don't know. I did have the summon object cheat break a few saves. Was pretty interesting that I summoned a pond in the middle of the road, found a mod that let me build one, then found out I could build it in debug. Sad thing whole thing could have been avoided if the Sims 4 had some Sims 1 build tools in the first place with terrain and pond tools. Why those tools still haven't been patched in four years in is beyond me at this point. I heard debug cheat got removed, but I haven't checked the cheat yet.

Hey man, it's going on four years and they still haven't even touched musical chairs despite it being the most loathed and iconic Sims 4 bug. Who knows what guides the decisions going on amongst the team.

Some Adults still walk like a toddler, is still clearly around, doesn't surprise me, I wonder what they actually did get right with the big list announced as "fixed".